GT5 2.02 Tire Wear [HARD DATA ANALYSIS FOR SUPER GT]

[Poly]

Nice write-up. I did a similar test the other night we GT500 cars, and while my opponents all had RM, I finished the race 30 seconds from the lead with RH without pit-stop. My race lasted 15 laps as well.

On a slightly longer race, a 1 stop strategy on RH and 2+ stops on RM might be more even, since I was losing a lot of time per lap on my used hard tires, but chose to stay out to complete the race anyway.

People need to realize that this analysis does not portray a universal picture of the tire wear situation. RH can still be a viable option for some races depending on the track, duration and driving style.

 

[chuyler1]

Great update in terms of strategy... if in lap 11 on RH or RM tyres the OP had pitted for softs he would have finished first... so it seems the RS is no longer the tyre to go to in terms of strategy but depending on the race distance combining the 2 or 3 types is probably the best way to go.

Your math is incorrect. The driver who selected RH tires at the beginning of the race is dead in the water. By lap 11 he would be 25 seconds behind with no chance of making up the time.

For this length race, there is a small chance that using one set of RM and one set of RS could be a winning combination. It requires effective drafting at the beginning of the race and a good qualifying spot. It also assumes the driver can conserve rubber and push the RM tires for 9 laps and the RS tires for 6 laps. Based on the tire wear I experienced, that is a very big "if".

...but increase the race length by one more lap and that strategy goes out the window.

 

[chuyler1]

People need to realize that this analysis does not portray a universal picture of the tire wear situation. RH can still be a viable option for some races depending on the track, duration and driving style.

- track, yes. RH tires will be good for High Speed Ring since you can stay in the draft of faster cars
- duration, no. As you can see from the 2nd graph, the RH driver never had the lead. You can't win on RH tires unless someone else makes a mistake.
- driving style, no. If I eased off the pace they would be even slower overall but I'd gain back 30 seconds lost on the last 2 laps..but not enough to win. If I pushed them harder, they would maybe gain a few 10ths but wouldn't last long enough to be a viable option.

 

[Sail IC]

Some comments on the new tire wear.

- RS tires are still the fastest choice in nearly all racing situations

-Tirewear or conserving tires using RS tires is now more important than before. Tirewear on RS is now roughly twice as fast as before, ie on any race distance you will pit twice as often or spend twice as much time in the pits. Before I've been in a GT500 racing league where its often was a toss between a 2- or 3-stop strategy. Today, it will be a 4-5- or 6-stop strategy, and given the short stints, the longer stints will be at a big advantage. I'm not sure I like this as I liked the mix before between speed or tirewear, where now it will be almost all about conserving your tires.

- I hope PD will change or improve this. Ideally I think RH tires should be the best tire over a longer race distance as it would open up the strategic choice of also using RS for one stint if you want to within the race gain track position even if it will be detrimental to your overall racetime.

 

[chuyler1]

Ideally I think RH tires should be the best tire over a longer race distance as it would open up the strategic choice of also using RS for one stint if you want to within the race gain track position even if it will be detrimental to your overall racetime.

Yeah, I agree. I would have liked to see RH tires run a steady slower pace that would win out after 20-30 laps or so, showing tires wear down gradually but not affecting lap times. ...but unfortunately that wasn't the case. I will do some testing with other cars and other tracks but I don't see RH being a wise choice for road courses.

 

[ItsHim]

I took a slightly different take on the comparison and set out first to establish a benchmark.

I chose the Stealth SLS, stock, for the A-Spec 4 hours Nürburgring race and set out to do 9 minutes laps on average to see how long the tyres will last. DS3, TCS 1, ABS 1.

On SS I got a 9:14 and near as makes no difference 9 minute laps (8:57, 9:03, 8:55) with a good 1/4 rear tyre rubber left.

On RH I got a 9:22 (traffic) and again close to the wanted 9 minute laps (8:55, 9:01, 8:59) with a good 1/4 rear tyre rubber left.

The real difference on the RH was that there was noticeable more grip overall and the acceleration and braking were much better. I didn't take advantage of that but restrained myself for the most part, but in a real race situation, this extra grip during braking or accelerating means being able to out-brake or overtake an opponent on corner exit.

I'd really like to see the numbers if the OP would aim for 1:20s on RM or 1:19s on the RS. To my experience, pushing the tyres will result in them burning up rather quickly, an effect which is even worse if one tries to match the fast lap times on later laps, thus putting more strain on already worn tyres.

 

[BrandonW77]

I'd really like to see data from race conditions. Hot lapping and racing is not a 1:1 comparison, once you add traffic and adrenaline it's a whole different story. A driver on RS could tear them up bad enough by battling for position to negate any advantage.

An alternate strategy that could be used for now would be to have everyone start the race on RH or RM tires and have the RS tires available on the first pitstop. This could create the strategy of going for a 2 stopper on the harder tires or switching to the soft tires which would provide quicker laps but require a 3 stop strategy. Or some similar strategies for longer races, 3 stopper on RH or 4-5 stopper on RH/RS combo. We're stuck with it for now, gotta figure out a way to make it work. 👍

 

[MHPALA]

I was expecting a more quantitive kinematic view of the new tire wear properties...

 

[chuyler1]

I'd really like to see the numbers if the OP would aim for 1:20s on RM or 1:19s on the RS. To my experience, pushing the tyres will result in them burning up rather quickly, an effect which is even worse if one tries to match the fast lap times on later laps, thus putting more strain on already worn tyres.

My driving is typically pretty conservative. I wasn't over turning the wheel or steering with my right foot. Each set of tires, except the RH tires, had more laps in them. But this test was mostly to compare lap times to tire wear on a typical road course. If you race consistent on each tire, whether you do so fast or slow, you'll probably end up with the same conclusion...that you can cut down your total time on the track better with more sets of RS tires than any other strategy.

 

[newbielives]

remove

 

[blue night]

Oh I became aware of he Tire wear right away and hated it. When I first started playing GT5 after the update I decide to finish some of my Aspec races I didn't finish and I started the NASCAR Extreme Championship. I put on racing soft one the first one and proceeded on to the next race and this is where the frustration started to kick in.

At the start of the second race of the championship I kept my tires for some reason from the previous race and track and they were pretty burnt out, I mean bad! If I put the pedal to the um medal my rear tires would just spin, heat up and turn red and just spin without me accelerating. Now I'm thinking if this is a different track a different course why wouldn't the racer change tires before the next race?

My problem isn't so much with the new wear system just how it's implemented into situations like this. I can understand a long 30 lap race where piting would come into play apart of your strategy but the way this is setup is kinda silly.

 

[luckylefty2gunz]

nice work chris

 

[numanair]

Sig figs *coughcough*

 

[SlyckTires]

Is this just for online, or will it change the dynamic for the A spec endurance races?

 

[ItsHim]

If you race consistent on each tire, whether you do so fast or slow, you'll probably end up with the same conclusion...that you can cut down your total time on the track better with more sets of RS tires than any other strategy.

I tend to believe if one sticks to times set on RH tyres, RM and RS should wear at the same rate. Going faster (but within the limits of the compound) will wear them out faster. Not finished putting in enough consistent laps, but it's not unlikely the tyre wear model is set up along these lines.

Most likely RS should be still fastest overall, you are absolutely right, more so in endurance runs when fuel consumption comes into play and refuelling really affects the pit time, as 15 litres of fuel are "free" with each tyre change.

 

[Fryto]

Great analysis, this will be helpful to many.
I'd like to add that consistency is really the key here. It also looks that driving style is impacting tyre wear more than before the 2.02 patch. It did make a difference before, but from my end just a little bit. I find it to be better simulated now.

A couple of days ago I was giving my tuned Evora an outing in a 550pp Road car Spa room. Everyone was running racing softs of course (*sigh*), so I put the same on to stay competitive. It didn't really matter they were soft as it were only 3 lap races, even with the tyre wear turned on.
But then it started to become interesting when the laps were increased to 5
As my tyres were pretty degraded I figured out they would be ok for 4 laps, but not 5, so I put on the mediums. The other guys in the lobby obviously didn't care and sticked with softs.
Started off in second but gained the lead in La Source already thanks to the braking power of the Evora. That he had medium loafers didn't really affect its stopping power. My top speed also seemed a bit higher and I didn't get slowed down by a (cleanly) battling pack, so when turning into Les Combes I had already put on a small gap that I could steadily increase throughout the race. My lap times were about 2 seconds slower than on softs, but I didn't have to push the car to its limits to stay in front. By the time I began lap 5 I was about 5-6 seconds in front and my tyres still gave me consistent 2:20 lap times. And that's where the opponents' softs got worn. My lead increased heavily now while the others were struggling on their racing softs and inevitably a couple of these guys rage-quitted the race. In the end I won with a 20 sec gap, even though my mediums were showing signs of wear as well, putting a 2:24 on the board after some small moments.

So RM seemed the way to go here for this scenario, so I decided to stick with that the race after. All the others sticked with their softs again (some people just don't learn ) and off we went. I had to start from the back now and got slammed into the barriers when entering Eau Rouge. This put me on a 10 sec gap with the leader so I was driving more aggressively to regain my spot at the top. Lap 2 and 3 were 2:18 and I had made my way back to the top three, but my tyres health was looking worrying. At the start of lap 4, they looked like my racing softs after a 3 lap race... So even though I managed a 2:22 in lap 4, my tyres were completely shot during lap five, and I could only manage a 2:35, crawling over the finishline in 3rd, a couple of seconds behind the equally struggling leaders.

So tyre management is really the key, and I think with some finetuning and if I can do a relaxed race like my first one on RMs, 5 laps should be manageable on softs as well.
All in all I'm please with the patch as strategy has become more important. Just blindly putting on softs (or mediums in my last race ) just won't work anymore.

 

[taboaamassa]

Nice work Chirs, very thankfull for your analysis...

Altough I do think PD made a huge mistake with this tyre wear model. We have a LMP Championship going on and there's no LMP that can reach 2 laps at the 24h Nurburgring with RS... For me that's pretty off reality. Even with RM, you must be quite carefull, and RH with the LMPS at the Ring is really hard to drive when you are talking of more than 60 minutes racing...

We have done several Endurance Races, of about 4 hours and we have another one scheduled but right now we don't know how it will work because the tyre wear is really messed up.

 

[dhandeh]

Good read. I think the time has come for stints on different compounds, RH then RS, would appear to work, providing your driving style is smooth.

 

[diablo6vt]

We have a LMP Championship going on and there's no LMP that can reach 2 laps at the 24h Nurburgring with RS
...
We have done several Endurance Races, of about 4 hours and we have another one scheduled but right now we don't know how it will work because the tyre wear is really messed up.

Hmm, I have the exact same concerns about LMPs on the 24h Nurburgring with RS. Would u care to share your conclusions on best tires to use after you've run your series of enduros?

 

[NJ72]

I dont know if anybody else has experienced this, but the tyres wear out faster during online play. If you go into the A spec practice a set of softs will typically last 30% longer than in an online lobby...

With regards to the update, I havent tried this since, so they may have changed that... but you should try your LMP cars on the ring in a practice, i should imagine that you'll get about 3 laps out of some RSs...

 

[Big Ron]

How can it be, that soft tires last way longer than mid or hard tires? That isn´t correct at all. The racing soft tires should give the most grip, but should loose grip at first.

This system is nonsense.

 

[axletramp]

Wish I'd found this thread before. Great work. 👍

I can add that I ran my own post-2.02 update tests with a 468PP S2000 for the Nurb 4hr endurance and found that a 4 lap pit stop strategy on RS will easily beat at 6 lap strategy on RM tyres. I was losing an average of 10 seconds a lap on the Nurb V circuit using the RM which you can't make up by doing less stops plus with the RS tyres you're far more competitive against the AI and that makes the difference between winning and losing over 4 hrs and 26 to 27 laps.

 

[TM-BI]

@chuyler1

Nice figures but I disagree with the new tire wears!

I am also driving in an GT500 Championship (that i founded with a friend);
we are driving without any driving aids (except ABS), 389kw RM, slipstream "less", penalties "off" (we have a "Race Control"), and so on. Most realistic lobby settings GT5 could offer.
Race distances change between 170 - 290km (105 - 180mls) plus 15 Minutes Qualifying.
We also drive on race tracks like Spa Francorchamps (7km/Lap) and Le Mans (13km/Lap).
As you figured out, the maximum durability of racing tires medium is just around 24mls (40km).
This means that on LeMans Pitstops would be necessary every 2 laps!

Sorry, but this is ridiculous!

GT5 wants to be "The real driving Simulator" - but since 2.02 it became a 100% arcade racing game!

I agree, that tire types should have different durabilities - but: the durability and performance should be close to realistic distances!

For example: In Formula 1 Pirelli had to reduce the durablities of its racing tires and - especially in Monaco the teams were obset that the could only drive 12-13 Laps on "Prime"Tires (the softest compounds!).
In GT5 the softest compound RS lasts only 6-8 Laps...no need to go further...

Long endurance races became a farce within 2.02 tire simulation!
Don´t even try to drive on "Nürburgring Nordschleife" (e.g. A-Spec 24h Race) using RM or worse RS!
You will need a Pitstop every damn Lap! Even more yousing 24h Nordschleife track which has a distance of 25km/Lap (15,5mls)!

Summary:
The new tire-durabilities are a mess! It´s destroying the "Sim-Character" of GT5 totally! There´s no sense to switch between RM, RS, RH for tactical thought if you need to stop for more than 4, 5 or 6 times during an 90 Minutes Race!

If Polyphony Digital won´t change this tire-desaster quickly into an real realistic simulation i guess that thousands of real Sim-affected Players will leave - forever!

Regards from Germany

Toby

 

[PIGBOY]

Does anybody think there is a change in online tyre wear?
Our FGT series race at Monaco on Sunday will be a good test of this,
thanks

 

[julianro]

awesome work mate, I'm racing my 9th hour in the nurb 24hs enduro and the last update cought with the race already started, so I was like: what the hell? the tires are wearing out faster, good info to know, more now that it's night racing in nurb. THKS!!!!

 

[SmileyOr1]

Tried the b-spec seasonal last night with the 700pp cars. I selected a Courage tuned right at 700PP for the race. I used the default tires and watched the rain indicator as bob drove the race. As the water level reached 30% the AI in the lead pitted so I did too and changed to Intermediates. At this point, coming out of the pits I was in 4th place. The rain continued until it reached the 63% mark with no additional pitting. The rain then began to decrease and the track started to dry out. When the water level was down to 38/39% (Lap 9 of a 10 lap race) the AI pitted and went back to racing hards.

If I had remembered how the (yellow P) indicator worked I would have told it not to pit on the last lap. My bob changed to RH and could not control the car. The AI in the lead was pulling away from me like he changed over to a fresh set of intermediates.

The water level was still at about 33% when the race finished. I ended up in 6th place, being passed by cars that had obviously changed to a fresh set of intermediate tires.

Whether the tire wear is accurate to real life or not, it does add a bit more realism into the game compared to pre-2.02 update.

Now I have to try the b-spec race again and stay alert tot he pit indicator and turn it off on that last lap

 

[BRP17]

Another benefit from using RS tires is that you can take 10 liters (or so) of fuel as well, for each pit stop without any extra time, which means that after 15 laps, the RS car would have 10 liters more fuel than RM and 20 liters more than RH. This means that once the RH car goes into pit, it has to stay longer for refueling than the RM, and the RM has to stay longer than the RS.

I've tested it with several cars, same result:
15 liters = tire change without any delay.FYI

 

[GasolineJunkie]

Excellent write up bud! 👍 Especcially the charts.

I haven't tried out the new wear system yet but it seems like I have to agree with the above popster that says the tire wear is not accurate at all. 1 lap on the Ring with RS? Tires must be made of peanut butter.

But anyways, it was an interesting read and I would like to see what you come up with as far as the rain compounds go. If you get around to it. Cheers.

 

[BRP17]

In the past, I could run rains in the dry.
Not any longer. Grip was crap, and they were toast in 1/2 a lap.

 

[dazdilly75]

The new tyre wear physics are a very interesting introduction to GT5. At first I was completely confused when I ran my first few laps on Nurb and shredded them by the time I hit the corkscrew. Then I raced on sport soft and also comfort soft and realised that this is where the realness lies. Particularly comfort soft which pre 2.02 took forever to warm up and seemed to last forever. The faster rate of tyre wear has increased the ability to drive comfort soft at a higher level (faster) I was in a free run room last night and I ran 7:48 at 525PP comfort softs, real grip, tyre wear on and heavy damage to make it interesting. At these regs I found the comfort tyres were optimum on the 2 second lap and slowly degraded from there. My fastest time came on my 4 lap after I pitted at the beginning of the 3rd, fuel was just above half by the time i finished the 4th (no refuel). This would have been an impossible mission for me previously and I think that Kaz and co are trying to move us away (ironically) from the arcade feel of RS. To appreciate the tyre wear you have to test the 'simulation'. Comfort soft to sports range compounds and I think you'll see it works very well.


My 2 pence