Gt5 ai ?

[ST-2]

Do you suppose the AI will get any better in GT5? I mean, in GT5P, they still run into you and stick to a constant line rather than trying to get past you or block your attempts to get past them. Imo, Forza has some brilliant AI, the computer actually drives the cars, in GT5P its more like scalextric's... Thoughts?

 

[Jay]

I find GT5P's AI can be pretty smart but they don't react fast, it takes abit of time driving with them before you notice it. If you go for quick manuvers and fly past quickly they don't react much.

Though this time around you can park on the straight and they will avoid you when they come past next lap, unlike GT4. I think AI is a constant work in progress, it'll probably get better in GT5 then more so in future titles.

 

[Cap'n Jack]

The AI in GT5P is pretty good, but as Jay said, their reactions are too slow sometimes, which gets really bothersome in close pack racing. I'm hoping they're not afraid to push a bit harder too, as it is in GT5P right now they tend to take it a bit too easy, sometimes it's a bit like a gentlemen's race meet.

 

[deep_sky]

It's still a bit too formulaic...the way I've always judged it is if you can tell the difference between your car and the others when watching replays...and you still can, by a long way. Cycle through the cars on replays and you'll see 15 cars taking a rigid line and then car 16 will be driving like a moron/idiot/genius...delete as applicable...

Something that I would like to see is the AI cars move over the circuit when they realise that you're in their slipstream.

 

[-ultraflow-]

...Cycle through the cars on replays and you'll see 15 cars taking a rigid line and then car 16 will be driving like a moron/idiot/genius...delete as applicable...

The AI has a Lemmings driving type and are not interactive with the rest of the pilots!!!

 

[Ardius]

AI will develop with the technology. In order to make really realistic AI, a lot of time and resources has to be spent on it, and seeing as Gran Turismo spends a lot of resources on graphics and physics calculations, I think the AI as it is, is fairly impressive.

I think the upgrades they make to the AI in each game are good, and in the end, now we have online modes, AI isn't as important as it was before.

But I someone who criticises games a lot for not having good AI, so of course I would like to see more developers focus on making decent AI models. I do think though that PD have done a great job overall.

 

[ST-2]

Something that I would like to see is the AI cars move over the circuit when they realise that you're in their slipstream.

On Fuji's main straight they do move around a bit to get in and out of slipstreams. But I agree they are too slow to react. I'd love to see some computer driver come steaming down the inside of me into a hairpin, either making the move stick or out-brake himself. I like to see the computer getting a tank slapper on, or on full lock because another computer has rubbed him through a tight turn. The DTM video posted in another topic shows the sort of racing I'd love to have with the computer... not that their's nothing wrong with the people online of course, but sometimes its hard to find people of equal skill level, they're either punters, too slow or too fast.

Could you imagine following the computer, watching it go three a-breast into a hairpin and only 1 making it out, while the others pick up the peices of damaged cars... AWESOME!

 

[Tenacious D]

Frankly, I got annoyed at being banged around in Forza 2, after the relief I felt from being free of the tards in Forza 1 wore off. The A.I. is good, but a little too aggressive for me. Something in-between Forza 2 and Prologue would be good. Except perhaps any BTCC racing.

 

[ST-2]

Frankly, I got annoyed at being banged around in Forza 2, after the relief I felt from being free of the tards in Forza 1 wore off. The A.I. is good, but a little too aggressive for me. Something in-between Forza 2 and Prologue would be good. Except perhaps any BTCC racing.

I understand what you're saying, but the I think the AI in Forza was pretty much spot on. It punishes you for getting it wrong, which is what a good racing game should do. Sometimes the AI would push you sideways and rub past on the inside, and why not? It happens online, why not by the computer?

 

[Ardius]

Frankly, I got annoyed at being banged around in Forza 2, after the relief I felt from being free of the tards in Forza 1 wore off. The A.I. is good, but a little too aggressive for me. Something in-between Forza 2 and Prologue would be good. Except perhaps any BTCC racing.

Actually, thats a good point, I find Ferrari Challenge immensely frustrating sometimes just because the AI reacts too fast sometimes and it always always jumps to the inside whenever you are nearby, so if you're making an overtake on the inside, he'll bash you off. But if you make an overtake on the outside, he leaves you plenty of room.
And in F1:CE, the AI has a habit of completely ignoring you when making turns, sometimes taking off your front wing by cutting across.

In this respect, Prologue has it perfect, with the AI taking opportunites as it sees them but not so much that its bashing you off track or leaving huge gaps.

 

[ST-2]

Actually, thats a good point, I find Ferrari Challenge immensely frustrating sometimes just because the AI reacts too fast sometimes and it always always jumps to the inside whenever you are nearby, so if you're making an overtake on the inside, he'll bash you off. But if you make an overtake on the outside, he leaves you plenty of room.
And in F1:CE, the AI has a habit of completely ignoring you when making turns, sometimes taking off your front wing by cutting across.

In this respect, Prologue has it perfect, with the AI taking opportunites as it sees them but not so much that its bashing you off track or leaving huge gaps.

Yes, but if you follow the AI on GT5P, sometimes there are 'obvious' chances to overtake, and you just sit behind thinking 'what are you waiting for, overtake him'. That might not make much sense, but follow the AI on a race soon, and you'll see what I mean.

 

[Ardius]

Yes, but if you follow the AI on GT5P, sometimes there are 'obvious' chances to overtake, and you just sit behind thinking 'what are you waiting for, overtake him'. That might not make much sense, but follow the AI on a race soon, and you'll see what I mean.

I meant AI in reaction to the player, AI on AI really means very little, and after experiencing FC, I think I prefer the "stick to the racing line" mentality that the GT AI has most of the time, at least its not doing suicide blocking moves on purpose.

 

[ST-2]

I meant AI in reaction to the player, AI on AI really means very little, and after experiencing FC, I think I prefer the "stick to the racing line" mentality that the GT AI has most of the time.

Humm... i see what you're saying, but why should the AI treat the player any differently to the other AI's... they should all be trying to win the race.

 

[Ardius]

Humm... i see what you're saying, but why should the AI treat the player any differently to the other AI's... they should all be trying to win the race.

Because, I imagine that the AI has been programmed with specific distances and relative speeds to make an overtake, seeing as the AI is almost perfect with its speeds, it will get a little stuck sometimes when racing itself as the gaps/speeds are not different enough for it to decide to overtake. Whereas with the player the gaps/speeds are usually more varied as the player is not so perfect.

Its not so much the AI is not trying to win, you're just seeing the threshold between the AI making decisions and this is something that is a balance issue, do PD make the gaps/speed differences necessary smaller and risk the AI being a little kamikaze with the player? Or do they make them bigger so that the player is given more chance? I think they have done the correct thing to make the AI more considerate to the player at the cost of making it rubbish against itself (though very rarely to be fair, I think the AI is quite balanced really, I don't recall seeing it get stuck behind itself that often, mostly because the relative performance of each car the AI is driving is different).

 

[ST-2]

Because, I imagine that the AI has been programmed with specific distances and relative speeds to make an overtake, seeing as the AI is almost perfect with its speeds, it will get a little stuck sometimes when racing itself as the gaps/speeds are not different enough for it to decide to overtake. Whereas with the player the gaps/speeds are usually more varied as the player is not so perfect.

Its not so much the AI is not trying to win, you're just seeing the threshold between the AI making decisions and this is something that is a balance issue, do PD make the gaps/speed differences necessary smaller and risk the AI being a little kamikaze with the player? Or do they make them bigger so that the player is given more chance? I think they have done the correct thing to make the AI more considerate to the player at the cost of making it rubbish against itself (though very rarely to be fair, I think the AI is quite balanced really, I don't recall seeing it get stuck behind itself that often, mostly because the relative performance of each car the AI is driving is different).

Is it not possible to make it variable? Adaptive even?

 

[Ardius]

Is it not possible to make it variable? Adaptive even?

Yes, PD has probably even done this, but thats the point with AI, you can make it more and more detailed and realistic, but as you do this it gets more and more complicated and more resource-intensive.
So, like I said, what PD have done is quite impressive as the AI is fairly reactive as it is, obviously not perfect, but AI is never going to be perfect.

I think in the end, AI is one of those things that you could spend years on making really realistic so you have to ask, do you want the game to be out sooner with AI that is decent or a lot later with more complicated AI. Seeing as the game isn't all about the AI and is not the focus, I think PD are probably already pushing what they can do with it without making the game even further delayed.
Its bad enough with them perfecting the physics and graphics, do we really need amazing AI that much? Do you buy the game for the AI?

 

[Tenacious D]

I forgot about Ferrari Challenge, and it's A.I. doesn't surprise me as it's based on the Forza 2 engine. If you come up behind someone, they'll give you all of two seconds to pass, which is only possible if you're going to fly past them, which is rare. Then of course they slam back into place which could mean you leaving the track. And if this is in the rain, you might as well forget winning unless it's a very long race. And they won't do it again, meh!

do we really need amazing AI that much? Do you buy the game for the AI?

Actually, I've hardly race online in Prologue simply because, as you say, the A.I. is very good. They remind me of the people I raced online, but there are 15 of them, not two or three. I love that big field.

 

[C-ZETA]

Frankly, I got annoyed at being banged around in Forza 2, after the relief I felt from being free of the tards in Forza 1 wore off. The A.I. is good, but a little too aggressive for me. Something in-between Forza 2 and Prologue would be good. Except perhaps any BTCC racing.

+1. Except, make that all forms of touring car racing.

 

[RedBaron]

Prologue's AI is the weakest part of the game. They play completely different game than you with very simple physics. They are heavy like a tank, you just can't point them to the sand, it should be completely possible, because they do it to you as well. And if you stay in the middle of the road they slam into you. Where you should go, they brake unnecesarilly and when you can't get in the corner and trying to find one last bit of traction, they are comfortably accelerating like hell. They don't have their own minds, they just follow the ideal line. Which we all found not so ideal many times, there are always better ways to do those corners. But they don't look for them, in fact I haven't even heard one tyre screech from AI or seen a drift! And those rare trips to the sand are just precalculated and repeated things of concrete car in concrete event to make this desperate theatre a little bit fun, not a mistake that man can do. Ugh.

I can only imagine that PD will have perfect AI in final GT5. Able to compete with you in professional mode. With own minds and temperaments and finally computing only with what they are able to see and hear like a driver in a concrete car. With proper panic maneuvers and not cheating, because the game knows that you are behind that corner. And certainly not slamming into you because that! PS3 has multiple cores to do that properly, so use them, PD!

 

[paskowitz]

The only problems I have found with the Ai are this: when you brake early on the inside they always ram into you. The biggest case of this is turn one at Fuji. About 40% of the time I get rammed. The second thing is say the Ai goes of the track in front of me, when they try to get back on the track they have no regard for the others cars. I have seen a car spin out in front of me then to my surprise from the middle of nowhere he rams me, off the road. Although they do slipstream well and in general set a "respectable" pace. Even though I destroy them almost every time. Sometimes there will be that one Ford GTLM or Lotus Elise 111R tuned that will make things tough.

 

[Kryz11]

I find GT5P's AI can be pretty smart but they don't react fast, it takes abit of time driving with them before you notice it. If you go for quick manuvers and fly past quickly they don't react much.

Though this time around you can park on the straight and they will avoid you when they come past next lap, unlike GT4. I think AI is a constant work in progress, it'll probably get better in GT5 then more so in future titles.

Exactly they do not react fast. IN GT5P you do 2-10 lap racing with AI over the Events so the AI needs to react faster, but seems AI is more suitable like in real life, where you do 20-80 laps for example, and you do not pass 10 cars in 2 laps, but you pas cars every few laps. So AI is good so far for Endurance racing, but for something quick below 10 laps, its not too quick enough.


I bet they will improve it a bit in GT5, as well future GT5 patches.. I do not worry about it as much as weather, day night in game cycles and damage.

 

[SuperCobraJet]

Exactly they do not react fast. IN GT5P you do 2-10 lap racing with AI over the Events so the AI needs to react faster, but seems AI is more suitable like in real life, where you do 20-80 laps for example, and you do not pass 10 cars in 2 laps, but you pas cars every few laps. So AI is good so far for Endurance racing, but for something quick below 10 laps, its not too quick enough.


I bet they will improve it a bit in GT5, as well future GT5 patches.. I do not worry about it as much as weather, day night in game cycles and damage.

If your worried about damage, you automatically have to be concerned with AI.
They will be your greatest potential for incurring damage, unless of course you unassistedly wreck yourself.

 

[TofuStoreDrift]

If your worried about damage, you automatically have to be concerned with AI.
They will be your greatest potential for incurring damage, unless of course you unassistedly wreck yourself.

That is my biggest concern with damage.

I hate to bring up Forza, but I think their ai is spot on. I have had the some of my best races in Forza. When you get into a braking duel with their ai, you don't have to worry about getting pushed below the apex. They don't stop in the middle of a hairpin either. In the previous GTs you had to bring a car that outclassed the ai, just so you could stay out of the kitty-litter. You never could have a close race and stay contact-free.

 

[Godrell]

I hate to bring up an extremely arcadey game but Grid has some very good AI. It brakes at the right spots, it reacts to the player's position on tha track and even overtakes cleanly. I recorded this a while back and was so impressed that I put it on Youtube. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HjwEYVrkyLg. The physics are less than acceptable and I did make some mistakes but I would really like to see something around this level of AI adapted to GT5. I honestly wasn't sure if I was even going to beat him in the end . He overtakes me totally legitimately at around 1:40 👍. Not a bad game in the end but the physics kill it...

 

[Worst_Driver]

I may be off topic but anyway did GT4 have qualifications before races because its a little bit arcadish to start last and to catch up everybody

sorry for my english I'm trying my best

 

[TofuStoreDrift]

I may be off topic but anyway did GT4 have qualifications before races because its a little bit arcadish to start last and to catch up everybody

sorry for my english I'm trying my best

You could qualify in championship races.

Grid did have some pretty nice AI, well at least the demo did.

 

[GTracerRens]

The AI is not very good in the Prologue, but not bad either. Sometimes the opponents break too late and smash the back of your car or other cars. Without a damage model that looks very bad in the replay. And qualifications are a great option too. But I think that would only be a good option at Endurance events or something. Because qualifications in a three-lap race is a bit useless. Then you could better start the race again after your first try.

 

[TorqueHappenS08]

...Dude Granturismo AI has come a long way, Also i have not seen any cases of the AI sticking to a Rail, There always scattered... passing each other, you just have to know where to put the difficulty for your class of car, Say for instance, your in a subaru STI WRX, You will want to put it on 60, Thats where you see some fighting and scattering.

 

[Worst_Driver]

The AI in GT5P is just sticking to a line and that's about it. I mean I try to pass them cleanly but they are always sticking to their lanes. Its pretty annoying because they push you out of the track if you drive cleanly but anyway I hope that AI in GT5 will be more of a challenge

 

[ZANELE]

I think the AI should improve automaticlly to be more agressive in races as you progress in the game . Or another example when you begin GT without any license the AI could be relatively soft on you in races but as you aquire your different classes of license the AI could gradually become more harch on you in races. In other words the AI should improve with your skill level. This will be good for the first timers to the series .