GT5 can be a D1 Gran Prix game in one?

[ysamu]

i love the D1 Gran Prix game in the PS2 so hoping PSN will have it or there will be game for PS3. but i think GT5 can be a D1 Gran Prix game in one if the full game will have:

1. Drift Tires used in D1 Gran Prix (D1, D2, D3).
2. Pair/Tandem drifting scoring.
3. Time Trial with required Drift Tires setting.
4* it already have Drift Trial.

that would be cool.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nUY5VaZ0cWc
the blitz car in D1gran prix.

 

[pepito]

That is unlikely since it looks like the creators of Gt5 wants you to drift using a regular drift car with all the technical stuff like brake steer gas oversteer weight shift countersteer etc. similar to the techniques found in tsuchiya's drift bible.

But if they will allow it why not.

 

[Delphic Reason]

I owned the D1GP game for PS2.... Considering how low it scored on every game site I've visited (and my own experience to boot), I am shocked that you liked the game so much. I played through the game, and I found it to be a mediocre experience at best (a roller-coaster ride through hell at it's worst).

Probably the least accurate physics in an automotive game, outside of the TXR series.

That being said, there is no reason for the game (GT5) to try and implement actual D1 rules and regulations. Drift scoring is a very simple (albeit subjective) animal. Any driving game that has hot laps can be turned into a D1 game, just by having judges watch the event, and score accordingly, keeping in mind the unique rules/regulations of the series.

We have been doing it here at GTP for years (since GT2 I believe). I ran the GT3 Drift Competitions (GT3DC was our version of D1) for about a year, before handing it over. I assume something very similar (although easier to implement due to online) will be utilized for GT5. I for one, will not be using the "drift mode" for drift competitions. The criteria the game uses to give "points" is hugely inaccurate and only serves to confuse and in some cases teach bad drifting habits.

 

[ysamu]

im putting my hopes up, GT5 is like becoming the God one stop racing game, from stock racing to touring, nascar to wrc and (maybe F1?), the one left up is D1 gran prix(or professional drift or formula D) and it is starting to get popular too. especially that gran turismo is a sponsor of it and has rights on 'gran turismo tv' about distributing videos of d1 gran prix, and even making tanner foust ad showing his formula D moves. its not hard for them to add that section like drift licensing(similar to the ps2 d1 gran prix) etc. since the system is there (ken nomura's er34 blitz is there), just need some drift tires and a twin drifting scoring system so people can play it offline. by putting it to GT5 its time for some people(not all) to discover the wonderful world of d1 gran prix like they put the rally racing in GT4 and GT5?.

but im ready to be disappointed.

 

[Delphic Reason]

here's your problem...

just need some drift tires and a twin drifting scoring system so people can play it offline. by putting it to GT5 its time for some people(not all) to discover the wonderful world of d1 gran prix like they put the rally racing in GT4 and GT5?.

A. You don't need "drift tires", as D1 and Formula D use sticky street tires (check the rules), so the tires in game (GT5) will be just fine.

B. Drifting is not like WRC or Nascar. Drifting utilizes a subjective scoring system similar to Ice Skating. You need REAL live judges to judge something as subjective as "style" (one of the 4 main judging points). No game has ever been able to implement this (PS2's D1GP being one of the worst attempts), because a computer cannot judge "subjectively".

Having some of the D1GP cars in the game (as with GT4), is more than enough to allow D1GP style gameplay without the need for a half-assed scoring system. As I said before, it's what we've been doing here for years.

 

[ysamu]

i think its a first for GT5p to add a drift trial so they must be cooking something, they want GT5 to enter also the world of drifting, of course not just d1 but also the U.S. version the 'formula drift' in one. i also want to see tanner foust's 350z. and add up that ae86 and fans will come in droves.

the online judges is good, but it require scheduling, where GT5 is not an online game so it should not be required to be online to play it (online will always be optional), besides arent D1 and Formula drift now uses GPS and electronic devices to measure their speed and angles to measure them correctly?

Driven Events has introduced electronic scoring which has taken a lot of the guessing out of the judging, providing real-time data to the panel and evidentially establishing a backbone to drifting as a truly skilled sport.

"In the past, the judges would typically estimate the speed and the angle of the vehicle. Now we have electronic equipment that can read it for us accurately, we monitor speed, angle and lateral g forces ten times per second to generate accurate scores," explained Jenkins.
http://paddocktalk.com/news/html/modules.php?op=modload&name=News&file=article&sid=115376

i will wait, i will wait. nobody can stop my hype train now.

 

[artica]

I watch Video option D1GP dvd's ALOT, and I do not think it would be that difficult to implement a twin tandem scoring system.

cars need to initiate a drift by a certain point before the designated check point.

The speed, angle, and proximity would be analyzed and graded during this time.

For tandems,
Points deducted for straightening out......
or
chase car comming in too fast and causing a crash.
or
lead car obviously slows down the pace too much and instigates a crash.

I think a gt5 computer programmer could set something up as easy as this????

As far as from what I've seen.
When it comes down to it, aside from recommended line, realistically, "style" consists of two things...aggressiveness or smoothness,
and a combination of both.

as long as drivers take the appropriate lines with no blatant corrections, there is no reason to be marked off for points.

During a tandem, it's just a matter of who messes up the least.
Extra points given to overtaking during the right time, or with more angle,
and points deducted for being overtaken or less angle than other car.

Easy!

I'm sure Keiichi and Manna-P could easily drop some info on the matter.

 

[Delphic Reason]

Both of you are missing something very simple. The new (it's actually been used for a few years now) GPS system is a tool to help the judges. It doesn't take place of them. You still need live judges to look over the data, as the data itself could never choose the winner.

The speed, angle, and proximity would be analyzed and graded during this time.

For tandems,
Points deducted for straightening out......
or
chase car comming in too fast and causing a crash.
or
lead car obviously slows down the pace too much and instigates a crash.

I think a gt5 computer programmer could set something up as easy as this????

You're oversimplifying...

There is a lot more to it than that, and a lot more possible scenarios, than what you have listed.

Look at all the games that have tried to do a drift scoring system. GT5 (hugely inaccurate), Forza 3 (even worse), and the aforementioned D1GP (the worst of the bunch). All they have served to do is create bad drifting habits (check F3 online to see examples of this), as the systems are too rigid (CPU Data Acquisition) to be able to differentiate between all the different criteria necessary to determine a "good" drift (Angle/Style/Smoke/Speed only being the main judging points).

Furthermore, for those of you who think D1/Formula D is going to be a part of GT5 like WRC/NASCAR, you might want to consider something. WRC and NASCAR have been touted as the new big series in the game. If this (D1) isn't some big surprise at E3, I would let some of that enthusiasm die down. D1 is a huge series in Japan. It's inclusion would be big news, and likely would have been mentioned by now, along side WRC/NASCAR.

It's much more likely that PD will include more D1GP/Formula D vehicles, and scrap any plans for a true D1 style scoring system as Kaz is more than likely very much aware of the inherent problems with automating a subjective scoring system. The "Drift Trial" mode (from GT5) will most likely be what is in the full game, with challenges based around that system.

 

[Talon]

^^^ Well said. I drift almost all the time when I'm playing GT5P, and 99% of it doesn't involve the drift trial. Drifting in a game is obviously about fun, so just have fun with it. Don't worry too much about the online rankings.

Completing a clean lap of Eiger is infinitely more satisfying with a group of five other friends than on your own with a point counter. Even drifting around the AI in single player is fun when you get it right. I'm sure PD is aware of this, so I think they will focus more of their attention on weather, damage, etc than on a drift scoring system. I don't think they could get it right even if they tried. Drifting is just too subjective to be judged by a computer.

 

[Radracing]

Just use the current point counter in GT5p but with multiple players as an option in the full version and the players online can view the replay to add and subtract points from each other as a poll and you get instant judging. That would be the best you can do with that.

 

[artica]

I did sum up the scoring in a very basic manner, but it wouldn't hurt PD to come up with something better than the current system.
Come ooonnn.....drift trial points????
People have done very retarded lines in the name of higher scores.

As stated above, in D1GP, they can electronically tell how much angle a car has by a certain point and the current speed.
A video game program can do this...
Points should also go to how long the person can cleanly hold and extend the drift.
I don't want to spend hours getting into this, but the we all now that there is criteria that is expected and can easily be graded through programming.
The human element would then be left to the wacky antics of drivers standing on cars and making funny faces at the camera.

I love Ken Nomura with his smooth and controlled style, but him not qualifying at Anaheim due to the drift box was not the gps' fault. I watched the runs, and i did see other cars attaining more angle than him.

He does have the people skills, smooth factor, and chasing down pat, but drivers like daigo saito are pushing him off the podium because they are now going balls to the wall.

 

[Delphic Reason]

As stated above, in D1GP, they can electronically tell how much angle a car has by a certain point and the current speed.
A video game program can do this...

Which is what the "Drift Trial" mode is doing... That is exactly the criteria most, if not all, drifting points systems in video games are utilizing to come up with your score.

Points should also go to how long the person can cleanly hold and extend the drift.

Again, this is what is being done in GT5, Forza 3, etc... The "cleanly" part of your statement is a subjective term, and thus cannot be judged accurately by a CPU. This again, is where the live judges come in. There are multiple levels of this throughout drifting. No matter how much technology is used to aid in judging the sport, drifting is by all accounts a subjective sport, and thus is judged as all other like sports are..... by a panel of judges.

I don't want to spend hours getting into this, but the we all now that there is criteria that is expected and can easily be graded through programming.

See above...

The human element would then be left to the wacky antics of drivers standing on cars and making funny faces at the camera.

Your on your own here.

 

[vr6wantsr20det]

seeing the GT banner on all the D1 cars gives me hope that it will be very Easy to Re-create a D1 style game play. As long as i have the cars and the tracks thats all i care about, the score means nothing to me. It's all about the driving/drifting lines and the fun of keeping the car sideways and placing it where i want it to go.

I have played the D1 game for the Ps2, my friend had a chipped ps2 so we played the Japanese version which was 100 times better than the US version that was released later on, it had Rhys Millen GTO etc and the Irwindale track, the physics/controls in the US version compared to the Japanese version was 2 whole different games if you ask me. I even used my DFP that i had with GT4 on the Japanese version of the D1 game and it was pretty good for what it was. 👍

 

[artica]

Delphi, do you want d1gp in gt5 or not?

 

[Delphic Reason]

Delphi, do you want d1gp in gt5 or not?

The vehicles, yes.

The series, no.

I watch D1, which is why I can say without a shadow of a doubt, it's just not possible to recreate it accurately with purely CPU scoring. If it's not accurate, it ends up being easily exploitable, and thus cheapens the experience.

As long as i have the cars and the tracks thats all i care about, the score means nothing to me.

This would echo my feelings on the matter.

I have played the D1 game for the Ps2, my friend had a chipped ps2 so we played the Japanese version which was 100 times better than the US version that was released later on, it had Rhys Millen GTO etc and the Irwindale track, the physics/controls in the US version compared to the Japanese version was 2 whole different games if you ask me. I even used my DFP that i had with GT4 on the Japanese version of the D1 game and it was pretty good for what it was.

The Japanese version is actually the only version I have played (Japanese PS3), so I can't say I agree with your appraisal. The physics were terrible, and the scoring system was heavily flawed, in my opinion.

 

[artica]

I'd be good and happy with a good chunk of d1 featured cars.

Ken's 2008 blitz got me through so far.

I'd love to see Daigo Saito's My brans jzx100 in the Drift pack of cars.

 

[vr6wantsr20det]

The Japanese version is actually the only version I have played (Japanese PS3), so I can't say I agree with your appraisal. The physics were terrible, and the scoring system was heavily flawed, in my opinion.

hahaha it was no gran turismo or live for speed, but for its time with the DFP and 900 degrees it was fun for what it was. I liked that when you did a good drift how the (3) judges heads (i know tsuchiya was one of them) would show the wild/excited happy faces with some flames behind it, always cracked me up.


But given that Kazunori Yamauchi is a fan of drifting and D1, i think there should be a good amount of content. It would be great if they threw in the BMI/Hot Version Touge course as well. But thats probably asking for too much. 👍

 

[Delphic Reason]

hahaha it was no gran turismo or live for speed, but for its time with the DFP and 900 degrees it was fun for what it was. I liked that when you did a good drift how the (3) judges heads (i know tsuchiya was one of them) would show the wild/excited happy faces with some flames behind it, always cracked me up.

The announcers were a big part of the problem, although I concede they do provide some comic relief.

But given that Kazunori Yamauchi is a fan of drifting and D1, i think there should be a good amount of content. It would be great if they threw in the BMI/Hot Version Touge course as well. But thats probably asking for too much. 👍

The BMI Touge course would be a fantastic addition to the game.

 

[artica]

If only we had a chance at ebisu....

 

[ysamu]

http://www.d1gp.co.jp/index_top.html

from the D1gran prix website.
i wonder why gran turismo is a sponsor? is it because of just the tv rights in gran turismo tv? or there could be something more, will yamauchi leave gran turismo japanese fans by not including D1 gran prix?

im getting excited now!

 

[Delphic Reason]

First off, please use capital letters and proper punctuation when posting here. Not all our members speak English as their first language, and it is part of the Acceptable Use Policy you signed when joining this forum.

*No slang words that promote laziness, ie; “r”, “u”, “plz”, etc. will be tolerated. Decent grammar is expected, including proper usage of capital letters. Repeated violations will be grounds for suspension and/or permanent removal from the forums.*

Now that the ugly Mod business is out of the way...

i wonder why gran turismo is a sponsor? is it because of just the tv rights in gran turismo tv? or there could be something more, will yamauchi leave gran turismo japanese fans by not including D1 gran prix?

im getting excited now!

PD sponsors vehicles in a number of real world series. It doesn't necessarily have any basis on what vehicles (or series) come to the game. They have sponsored many series/vehicles in the past that have never made an appearance in the GT franchise.

Porsche is a very good example.