GTP_HairyCurry
(Banned)
- 18
http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/digitalfoundry-gt5-damage-lacks-impact-blog-entry
An interesting read, don't you think?
An interesting read, don't you think?
GT5 damage model lacks impact (Eurogamer article)
- Thread starter GTP_HairyCurry
- 49 comments
- 4,753 views
- 770
Interesting, kinda confirms what we already know though.
- 706
Nobody will ever be able to get damage right until they make a 60mph crash into a wall the end of the racing career.
- 3,323
- GTP_Mark
- Mark T33
A couple of bits that initially concern me.
So the panels do not dent or scratch but simply come off.
Again disappointing but without seeing the final build this could be in the pipeline.
Here it mentions that only one car sustained damage from the collision, maybe there is a handicap option or something along those lines which can be changed. Be interesting to find out how it determines who has caused the crash. As expected damage affects the performance of the car but from how the article is worded it doesn't seem to matter where you get it. So maybe a few shunts on the rear bumper will have the same affect as a few knocks on the front or side. Again, slightly disappointing but this was just a demo.
So the panels do not dent or scratch but simply come off.
Again disappointing but without seeing the final build this could be in the pipeline.
Here it mentions that only one car sustained damage from the collision, maybe there is a handicap option or something along those lines which can be changed. Be interesting to find out how it determines who has caused the crash. As expected damage affects the performance of the car but from how the article is worded it doesn't seem to matter where you get it. So maybe a few shunts on the rear bumper will have the same affect as a few knocks on the front or side. Again, slightly disappointing but this was just a demo.
- 255
- the fatadder
Rather disappointing (or at least it will be if this is the finished article.) I guess a lot comes down to just how complete the game was when they created this demo, if it really is in Kaz's "we could release now" then I would be a little worried. If this was created ages ago, and the damage has seen a lot more development since then, no doubt it will be much improved in game.
Certainly the damage on the E3 trailer was a lot more subtle than just ripping panels off...
With the damage to other cars issue, so long as they experience the mechanical damage associated with the crash, then again I'm not to worried. But if there is one thing above all other that really bugs me in games its when the AI cheat, with penalties/damage etc not being applied to them in the same way as to you!
Certainly the damage on the E3 trailer was a lot more subtle than just ripping panels off...
With the damage to other cars issue, so long as they experience the mechanical damage associated with the crash, then again I'm not to worried. But if there is one thing above all other that really bugs me in games its when the AI cheat, with penalties/damage etc not being applied to them in the same way as to you!
- 23,974
- It/It
- GTP_TheCracker
I'm sure the very first video we were shown (where the silver Evo smashes into the spun Impreza just after turn 7) clearly had debris on the track? 
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- 47
- 87,240
- Rule 12
- GTP_Famine
The second Gamersyde video showed the Impreza's door coming off - with several smaller pieces of debris - and spin down the track, interacting with the barriers as it did so. It didn't vanish - and neither did the deformable barriers.
- 29,299
- Glasgow
- GTP_Mars
- 23,974
- It/It
- GTP_TheCracker
As long as they have some physical weight to them, unlike the cones at Le Sarthe that bounce along happily all day not effecting the cars that hit them in the slightest.
GTP_HairyCurry
(Banned)
- 18
This is what made me a bit angry
Presumably this will mainly (or only) affect single player, but it's just so bleeping unfair!
Surely between them, the coders and the PS3 have the skill and power to apply damage across all vehicles in a race.
Presumably this will mainly (or only) affect single player, but it's just so bleeping unfair!
Surely between them, the coders and the PS3 have the skill and power to apply damage across all vehicles in a race.
GTP_HairyCurry
(Banned)
- 18
- 49
Yeah, worries me too. Surely they wouldnt put out an old demo to play if the game is ready to release whenever they like? And improving the damage model would take months if not years. I think what we saw is it. No matter, internal damage is more important to me and sounds like we got it.
GTP_HairyCurry
(Banned)
- 18
- 87,240
- Rule 12
- GTP_Famine
There's nothing there. You're imagining it. Eurogamer said so.
Ultimately this is a one-car, one-track, 3-minute demo. With unknown settings. We have no idea how it relates to GT5 at all. Panic, anger, jubilation... no point to any of them. It is what it is and doesn't imply anything else.
- 842
- sher_da_putt
Looks similar to the e3 bit of footage, just makes the e3 trailer look like it was ingame, im expecting dust build up, hopefully an even better reason to use the car wash
- 8,016
- GTP_Royalton
...
I hate to say this but this is why I always looked down on the people who cried and moaned about damage in GT. Truth is the majority of them don't want damage to add to the difficulty of the game, most of them would turn it off when they're racing for real, they want super realistic damage for that 5 minute cheap thrill of driving backwards and seeing how badly you can tear apart a car.
For those who car about the racing like me, I want to see damage to add to the difficulty. Doesn't have to be super realistic, as long as I get punished for errors and I can see where I damaged the car.
My suggestion is that all the people who care so much about the ability to see dents on their car go play NFS, Burnout, Grid or some other arcade racer. Oh and join the "reverse lights and skid marks" crew.
Why?
Because the only developers who put a large amount of time into developing intricate damage models are those who don't know the most important thing about a sim racing game are the driving physics.
Some of the greatest racing simulations of all time, NASCAR 2003 (hoods and bumpers crumple up, that's it), rfactor (bumpers, hoods, tires, noses fall off, that's it), iRacing, GTR2 (bumpers, hoods, tires, noses fall off, that's it) have "poor" damage models as judged by the Burnout obsessed who need to see their car destroyed all the way from paint peeling off for slight run ins with the wall to their engine flying out of the car in big crashes
GTR2 crash, "poor" damage by the Burnout crowd's standards
I could post more. In rfactor I can brush the wall at 100mph+ in an open wheel car and keep driving with no ill effect when in real life my race would be done.
I could go on and on but NO game has ever modeled damage correctly. If you thought PD was going to implement some industry changing damage model on the first go with damage you only have yourself to blame for setting your expectations too high.
Let's get real people.
99.99% of the time your going to be driving in Gran Turismo, NOT crashing. So let's get our priorities straight. How have the physics changed? That is the most important part. Not if the paint scratches when you rub a wall
00.01% of the time you will be crashing.
PD has said a long time ago the cars are made in parts. When you crash the parts, from the hood, to bumper to doors will fall off depending on where the impact happened.
The damage model is just fine to me. Could it be better? Yes, and so could the damage model of every racing game on the market, even some of the greatest sim racers of all time have nowhere near realistic looking/behaving damage.
Fact is damage is in and it's in the way I thought it would be in, as in pieces of the car falling off. For those of you hoping to see cars get wadded up, then that's your fault for having unrealistic expectations that had no reason to be true.
If you want more then that go play Burnout, because Gran Turismo, like other great racing sims, is a real driving simulator, not a crashing simulator.
I hate to say this but this is why I always looked down on the people who cried and moaned about damage in GT. Truth is the majority of them don't want damage to add to the difficulty of the game, most of them would turn it off when they're racing for real, they want super realistic damage for that 5 minute cheap thrill of driving backwards and seeing how badly you can tear apart a car.
For those who car about the racing like me, I want to see damage to add to the difficulty. Doesn't have to be super realistic, as long as I get punished for errors and I can see where I damaged the car.
My suggestion is that all the people who care so much about the ability to see dents on their car go play NFS, Burnout, Grid or some other arcade racer. Oh and join the "reverse lights and skid marks" crew.
Why?
Because the only developers who put a large amount of time into developing intricate damage models are those who don't know the most important thing about a sim racing game are the driving physics.
Some of the greatest racing simulations of all time, NASCAR 2003 (hoods and bumpers crumple up, that's it), rfactor (bumpers, hoods, tires, noses fall off, that's it), iRacing, GTR2 (bumpers, hoods, tires, noses fall off, that's it) have "poor" damage models as judged by the Burnout obsessed who need to see their car destroyed all the way from paint peeling off for slight run ins with the wall to their engine flying out of the car in big crashes
GTR2 crash, "poor" damage by the Burnout crowd's standards
I could post more. In rfactor I can brush the wall at 100mph+ in an open wheel car and keep driving with no ill effect when in real life my race would be done.
I could go on and on but NO game has ever modeled damage correctly. If you thought PD was going to implement some industry changing damage model on the first go with damage you only have yourself to blame for setting your expectations too high.
Let's get real people.
99.99% of the time your going to be driving in Gran Turismo, NOT crashing. So let's get our priorities straight. How have the physics changed? That is the most important part. Not if the paint scratches when you rub a wall
00.01% of the time you will be crashing.
PD has said a long time ago the cars are made in parts. When you crash the parts, from the hood, to bumper to doors will fall off depending on where the impact happened.
The damage model is just fine to me. Could it be better? Yes, and so could the damage model of every racing game on the market, even some of the greatest sim racers of all time have nowhere near realistic looking/behaving damage.
Fact is damage is in and it's in the way I thought it would be in, as in pieces of the car falling off. For those of you hoping to see cars get wadded up, then that's your fault for having unrealistic expectations that had no reason to be true.
If you want more then that go play Burnout, because Gran Turismo, like other great racing sims, is a real driving simulator, not a crashing simulator.
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- 770
True. But they mean shattering, smashing. You don't really have to read between the lines to know that.
Like glass from headlights, windows. Tiny pieces of metal scraped off the car.
You get it
Besides, there was scratching and deformation in the concept movie, that was stated to be ingame. So I'm really crossing my fingers for decent damage.
GTP_HairyCurry
(Banned)
- 18
@Earth
I agree with you in general.
GT is the 'Real Driving Simulator', but for many that means it's basically a car showroom in motion.
What I want is a 'Real Driving Experience', or as close as you can get on a console. And that experience must include weather, damage, mechanical failure, idiot drivers, etc.
Maybe computing power isn't capable of all that simultaneously at this time.
As for driving physics...well maybe there is a point where the modelled physics become 'mathematically indistinguishable' from reality, similar to lossless audio for example. If we are at that point, then consider the physics as 'done' and move on to other areas of the sim.
My main concern with damage is whether it actually encourages destruction-driving online, which of course can ruin enjoyment.
I agree with you in general.
GT is the 'Real Driving Simulator', but for many that means it's basically a car showroom in motion.
What I want is a 'Real Driving Experience', or as close as you can get on a console. And that experience must include weather, damage, mechanical failure, idiot drivers, etc.
Maybe computing power isn't capable of all that simultaneously at this time.
As for driving physics...well maybe there is a point where the modelled physics become 'mathematically indistinguishable' from reality, similar to lossless audio for example. If we are at that point, then consider the physics as 'done' and move on to other areas of the sim.
My main concern with damage is whether it actually encourages destruction-driving online, which of course can ruin enjoyment.
- 8,016
- GTP_Royalton
And how many games out there simulate crashing as realistically as some people's expectations around here? Zero? The damage is there, it's visible. I'm satisifed, but there is the crowd that has to see paint scratched off when the rub against a wall. Personally, I have never played (or seen) a racing game that peels paint off the side of a car in an incident.
Even Burnout Paradise's crash model is a joke. You can drive a car 200mph straight into a concrete wall and all that happens is the first 3 feet of your car caves in and you come to a stop. In reality the biggest piece of the car left would be the tires after it exploded.
In Burnout Paradise I've flipped the cars at 200mph at the worst angles and only got them to roll 4-5 times max. Real cars roll that much in 70mph wrecks.
GTP_HairyCurry
I doubt it is. Look how they now just have 10 cars on track. Is
People keep saying they want higher quality sounds but they forget sounds take a toll on the processor.
What type of toll would a car model put on the processor if every square inch of it could be individually scratched, bent, and/or broken off? I say Playstation 4 before you can see anything near realistic damage modeling.
Look at EA's NASCAR 2009, "Great" crash model, but terrible game. That's what i don't get. Damage is such a small part of what can make GT5 a great game I don't see why it's getting so much attention. It is concerning that only 170 of the cars (probably racecars) may have damage.
dancardesigner
(Banned)
- 822
- dancardesigner
Why do people keep saying this. Kaz has already confirmed 16 cars on track and we already have that in Prologue, he won't go back on his word now.
They probably only showed 10 cars as that is what was probably thought to be appropriate for a short 3min race, also probably to make sure there is not too much tearing on screen that the critics will pick up on. They still have many optimiseations to make.
Any way looking at how many things were missing from that build, and been told that the E3 trailer was confirmed real time, i wouldn't be surprised if this was either an old build, or has been cut down big time. Hence why there was no conference. They are clearly trying to show as little as possible before the big blow out at TGS. As of right now PD want's GT mobile to have the limelight.
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