GT5 - How should cars be classified?

[Famine]

So that means you wouldn't be able to race the Ford Ka in European car races...

Satisfy my curiousity - place the Lotus Cortina for me...

(the problem is, there's always going to be exceptions - expecially while there's car-whores like Lotus around. Any classification scheme will be imperfect but the more rigid the rules, the more imperfect it'll be)

 

[Dave A]

No because it's a Ford, yes I know the Ka is'nt American, but as I said, call it an exeption if you have to, going deeper just gets messy. The only other way is to do where the cars are built but then you'll have that many different Ford dealers and Honda dealers ect. Imo keep it simple, keep it as it is and has been in GT so far.

 

[Famine]

That's true - too accurate and you've not got much organisation, but too organised and you don't have much accuracy (and lots of "exceptions").

How about that Lotus Cortina anyway? Does it go in Lotus (British, but not really built by them, and really a Ford, sold by Ford), Ford (American, but never sold over there) or somewhere else? You try arguing that the Lotus Cortina isn't British.

The follow-up car is even more confusing - the Ford Cortina Lotus. Same applies, but with an even stronger case because it's actually CALLED a "Ford Cortina Lotus" but is about as American as "Association Football".


I think I can conjure up an answer which enough accuracy to satisfy wierdos like me and enough organisation to be tidy, but, like I said earlier, car-whores like Lotus make life very difficult...


That said, there'll always be as many problems as you want to imagine up.

 

[SavageEvil]

I think it should just stay badge based, if it's a Subaru, it's Japanese, if it's a Tickford, it's Australian, if it's a Lotus, it's British ect regardless of where the actual car is built.

Live how you want it is exactly how its always been. I pefer cars to be from the markets they are built for. If the scheme goes, you select a region and from there you are given the automakers selling in that region, then you can select a manufacturer and then the model. GT4 was starting to go in this direction as you can see with Infiniti and Lexus being US only brands. They need to keep it clear which cars are in which markets, because that is how the map is split up to begin with. I do not wish to go to the Japanese region to buy USDM Toyotas, Nissans and Hondas, that defies the purpose of having regions, might as well just have a big list of cars, and just list whether it is JDM, USDM or EDM. GT needs some kind of order and realistical region representation of vehicles. US has Toyota, Mitsubishi, Jaguar, BMW, but only certain models are available and they are different from their counterparts in different regions of the world, different hp ratings, suspension setups keep it uniform, but easy enough to navigate by just remembering what you know off hand. An average american will know what automakes are sold in America, so will the average Brit know what is sold in his homeland.

 

[Dave A]

Well done for spotting .

Imo keep it simple, keep it as it is and has been in GT so far.

Famine in thoes cases I'd probably go by the badge on the car, but to be honest I'm getting a bit tired right now so I won't go into it more tonight because I will end up not making sense.

 

[zujik]

Well if you organised the cars by country sold, brand, model and then allowed in the British Championship cars that are sold in Britain then it should work BUT there are a few issues.

1) PD getting accuracy for all markets/countries.

2) Lots of duplication. Cars sold in England are also sold in Germany and Australia (Opel/Vauxhal/Holden). Same as Toyota and Corollas, probably sold just about everywhere. And then some may have major/minor tweaks. For example most European cars are tuned differently for Australia because of our fuel and mainly the suspension to handle our *cough* First Class *cough* roads (journalists always say that a European cars handling is too soft, maybe our potholes are too big?).

3) Confusing for the consumer. Like you mentioned the Cortina and in another thread the US/UK Escort. I can see people being frustrated trying to enter a US model into a British Event.

4) Like you also said above about the cars being built here and there. I don't think in the game a UK civic would matter in British events AS MUCH because they will be primarily aimed at your classic marques like Jaguar, Aston Martin, Lotus etc. Where it would be confusing is in the Japanese Events where WRX's are are able to be entered (racing editions) and someone has the Prodrive. Unless they manually created rules for each car which would then bring us to another problem. It would take them time and who would really know what car is eligble where if you could buy a British car and enter it into a Japanese event? Many cars could be overlooked for races because they aren't considered Japanese because the average Joe brought it under the British Menu and assumed you couldn't race it. To him it's a British Civic BUT it should be allowed to enter a Japanese event as it's technically a Japanese car.

So as you can see there are many possibilities and most need additional rules to satisfy the consumer. I think everyone can agree on one thing though, I would hate to be in charge of this at PD, especially with English as a second language. It would be hard enough getting their own country right let alone mulitple others they don't/haven't lived in or grew up in.

Poor guys....

 

[YSSMAN]

...It may be easier to seperate the brands by their corporate face
Ex: GM would contain Chevrolet, Pontiac, Buick, Cadillac, Saab, Opel, Vauxhall, Holden, etc...

although, it might make finding your favorite car for the automobile-illiterate somewhat difficult...

 

[Mt. Lynx]

...It may be easier to seperate the brands by their corporate face
Ex: GM would contain Chevrolet, Pontiac, Buick, Cadillac, Saab, Opel, Vauxhall, Holden, etc...

although, it might make finding your favorite car for the automobile-illiterate somewhat difficult...

Think again. Some makes are owned in percentage. Where will such make end up?
I gave the exact same thought on this a while back, and then came to the conclusion it wouldn´t work. Another issue is older cars. Where will for example the Jaguar E-type end up?

 

[LeadSlead#2]

How about this: Since Ford Europe is a company stationed in Europe, and is simply owned by Ford, it can be only Europe? aka, Holden, is owned by GM, but that doesnt mean it's not it's own company.

If it's called a Lotus, sell it as one.
If it's Ford Europe, it's a european company, owned by an American company. <---- therefore predominantly European.
A honda made in europe is still the same Honda, built by the same Japanese company, even though built in Europe, due to overwhelming similarity (in models, etc..) and complete ownership by Japan, is Japanese.
Acura, Lexus, Infinity: Either Canadian, North American, or Japanese, depending on wether North America is an option, or Canada, etc..
I'd thrown 'em in North America... assuming they have that listed this time instead of simply, America.

My point is simply that you can't make a generalization here, you can get picky, and specific, there just won't be any general guidelines, it'll have to be manufacture specific, and in that, will lie your answers. OR, go broad and undefined, and have faults included


OR....



A value setting would be a great way to establish this all. Example: Company owned by? 5 points Company located in? 4 points Company designers? 3 points, Company builds original cars, or simply copies? originals, 7 points, copies, 0 points. etc, etc...
This is simply an idea, as to how one could classify cars, and make no exceptions, apart from my ideas above. The only trick is deciding which aspects give more points, and less points.

 

[bbq0801]

Personally I would like the sytem where the country is chosen first.

For example, if you are in the USA, you choose USA the all the cars, sorted by manufacturer, that are actually sold in the USA are listed there.

So you would first choose the country YOU are in -> then perhaps the home country of the manufacturer -> Manufacturer -> cars from that manufacturer that are sold in your country. This might provide some duplicates, but at least, if you want a US spec car, you get a US spec car.

**Slightly OT** The more important classification to me though, involves what you will be racing against, since thats really what the game is all about..
I dont understand why it is so difficult for PD to get this right, but it seems to have actually gotten worse as the games have progressed, GT4 by far being the worst. Why cant i use the car of my choice and be placed against competitors that have abilities equal to mine? I would much rather have the choice to change the AI difficulty (E.G. from 1-10) and be placed against cars that will run laptimes consistent with me..
In the earler GT games, the cars would all produce reasonably similar times, now I run the Polyphony Digital Cup (appropriate isnt it?) and Im placed against, on one end, a Peugeot 106, on the other, a Ford GT! Thats not realistic, and its not fun.