GT7 and SimHub Tactile discussion

[Mr Latte]

Some thoughts.

The costs you might spend with the folding seat and modifying it.
Then looking at a cheap solution to have a hardback seat to meet my desired approach.

If you were to sell the folding seat and instead buy something like the following.

https://nextlevelracing.com/products/elite-es1-sim-racing-seat/

Alternatively get a good deal on some bucket style seat somewhere.
These can be adapted to suit office chair bases or design a base on wheels for it.

You could seek creativity to make it possible, the (race type seat) could be attached to a sim rig type frame, yet is easily removed from that and can be mounted on office chair type base when needed.

If necessary, have it that the sim rig type frame fits into a box or foldaway option, similar to illustrated.
It would be possible to also have an easy cable detach solution for the exciters via bullet connectors or other options.

 

[gek]

Some thoughts.

The costs you might spend with the folding seat and modifying it.
Then looking at a cheap solution to have a hardback seat to meet my desired approach.

If you were to sell the folding seat and instead buy something like the following.

https://nextlevelracing.com/products/elite-es1-sim-racing-seat/

Alternatively get a good deal on some bucket style seat somewhere.
These can be adapted to suit office chair bases or design a base on wheels for it.

You could seek creativity to make it possible, the (race type seat) could be attached to a sim rig type frame, yet is easily removed from that and can be mounted on office chair type base when needed.

If necessary, have it that the sim rig type frame fits into a box or foldaway option, similar to illustrated.
It would be possible to also have an easy cable detach solution for the exciters via bullet connectors or other options.

As ever, thanks for the tips and sharing your thoughts. I was wondering if I could adapt a plastic racing seat to an office chair. I’ll look into that further. I’ll check out the bullet connectors. I’ve been trying to figure out what the best solution for a quick disconnect would be. Thanks!

 

[gek]

@Mr Latte This one that @TexHill linked to looks suitable…and inexpensive:

Summit Racing SUM-G2100 Summit Racing™ Poly Race Seats | Summit Racing

Free Shipping - Summit Racing™ Poly Race Seats with qualifying orders of $109. Shop Bucket and Bench Seats at Summit Racing.

www.summitracing.com

 

[Mr Latte]

@Mr Latte This one that @TexHill linked to looks suitable…and inexpensive:

Summit Racing SUM-G2100 Summit Racing™ Poly Race Seats | Summit Racing

Free Shipping - Summit Racing™ Poly Race Seats with qualifying orders of $109. Shop Bucket and Bench Seats at Summit Racing.

www.summitracing.com

I dont see a need for your folding seat or requirment for it, if you have space for an office chair.
So I am puzzled why you would seek to have both or go to all that bother to modify?

If you get a decent seat it can last you for years, simply bolt the seat to a plate, have it that the plate then can be detached from the rig base, but also a modified office chair base. Its possible.

Various options for cable disconnects, the most professional would be multicore speakon connector.
This can allow upto 4 channels per connector. Err but you know its more expensive. The alternaitve is using an AV type wallplate for multiple RCA.

Bullet connectors or other cable couplers are possible with each indvidual cable that would go to the exciters.
However it would also be possible with the "Dual Lock" we recommend to attach the exciters to the back of the seat.
That for the rig base section. You can detach all the exciters when needing to separate and attach these to a temporary board that gets put away with the rest of the rig.

Different approaches depending on what you want to do.

Its possible you could have a typical desk scenario with wheel/pedals or using joypad with or without VR and get to enjoy the tactile. Even with just a pad, it will transform the enjoyment the game offers.

 

[gek]

I dont see a need for your folding seat or requirment for it, if you have space for an office chair.
So I am puzzled why you would seek to have both or go to all that bother to modify?

Haha, yeah, I get it. There’s no logic to it, really. I guess the best way I can explain it is that I’ve had this idea in my head for a while now, and I need to see if it works. 🤷‍♂️ I’ll consider letting it go, but that’s really hard. 😁 I think a part of me also feels that, if I can prove the concept, then I can offer a solution for other people who find themselves unable, for whatever reason, to have anything other than a foldable racing seat.

 

[gek]

@Mr Latte This may sound weird, considering I haven’t experienced your RaceBass first hand - When I first read through this thread a year and a half ago, I was very intrigued by the fact that you cared so much about the details. You don’t seem to be one who settles for less than the best. You ALSO seem to have a focus on offering a budget solution. This is VERY appealing to me. Tactile in sim-racing seems to still be finding its way, with several companies offering some sort of solution. From everything I’ve read, none of those solutions even comes close to what you are trying to develop and achieve with yours. As with everything, some sort of standard will eventually be set. Maybe yours is the one. I don’t know where any of this goes, or even if what you are doing IS the best solution, but I, for whatever reason, have faith in it. Quite simply, I want to be a part of it in some way. As I mentioned in one of my other posts, I’ve always been interested in “how things work”, but mostly on the mechanical and electrical side of things, less so on the software side. I ended up in the restaurant business, but I feel like I have something to offer to the realms where my hobbies exist. There’s more, but for now, I’ll just leave it at that.

 

[q445187]

^^
What he said!

 

[gek]

Just found this locally…waiting for more photos. Description says: “Poly Racing seat with cover and mounting brackets.” Asking for $65.

View attachment 1424237

 

[Mr Latte]

Several people come, asking for effects, for help, telling me that want to test.
Honestly, and this is not just new or related to now. I would say in general 25% of the people will actually be supportive and actively get involved.

My advice for you is to discover and play around with tactile to build up some experience with it and get comfortable with Simhub settings etc. A lot of work is put into effects and a good deal more still needs to be done. The indications are that as a concept, yes it works well and it can indeed bring immersion experiences you cannot get with other approaches or more restricted hardware. I have talked enough about that.

I looked into some of the molded seats and even the best ones, seem to have hollow sections, they are not solids.
So a unit attached to the back of the seat may not properly transfer its energy to the desired body region.

What you need to do, is get a proper/suitable seat and find some way you can accomodate it into your livingspace.
A folding seat with attached brackets is not going to operate with the frequencies, multiple effects, multiple channels in the same way as a typical fibreglass or carbon sim/raceseat.

Its upto you want you want to do.
The question is, what are the most affordable race seats, you could still modify into a foldup rig or swap between used on someting like that when needed and then swapped over to an office chair base.

 

[gek]

Several people come, asking for effects, for help, telling me that want to test.
Honestly, and this is not just new or related to now. I would say in general 25% of the people will actually be supportive and actively get involved.

My advice for you is to discover and play around with tactile to build up some experience with it and get comfortable with Simhub settings etc. A lot of work is put into effects and a good deal more still needs to be done. The indications are that as a concept, yes it works well and it can indeed bring immersion experiences you cannot get with other approaches or more restricted hardware. I have talked enough about that.

I looked into some of the molded seats and even the best ones, seem to have hollow sections, they are not solids.
So a unit attached to the back of the seat may not properly transfer its energy to the desired body region.

What you need to do, is get a proper/suitable seat and find some way you can accomodate it into your livingspace.
A folding seat with attached brackets is not going to operate with the frequencies, multiple effects, multiple channels in the same way as a typical fibreglass or carbon sim/raceseat.

Its upto you want you want to do.
The question is, what are the most affordable race seats, you could still modify into a foldup rig or swap between used on someting like that when needed and then swapped over to an office chair base.

Understood.

 

[Mr Latte]

Please understand for my own concept/approach it seeks to bring a high quality in the tactile it offers.
Yet to be able to experience and enjoy it with less hassle than is typically the case with tactile.

To do that properly with pre-developed and tested effects and via the recommended hardware. This is different, to other approaches and it is why a suitable seat is then also required.


For cockpit reviews or to get inspiration on making something to suit your livingspace.

This guy covers a lot of those.

Karl Gosling

A channel for all the things I enjoy and am passionate about, sim racing, virtual reality, tech and retro.

www.youtube.com

 

[q445187]

I watch him now and then, I like his channel.

 

[gek]

Yep, I like Karl. His reviews helped me decide on the Playseat Challenge. 👍🏻

 

[gek]

@Mr Latte I have not secured a hardback seat yet, but my “Tactiflex” concept/prototype is moving along quite nicely. I wonder if I might trouble you for access to the “old” effects that you offered me a few weeks ago. Thanks in advance.

 

[gek]

Also, can someone explain to me what is happening when I set the “low” and optional “high” frequencies in Simhub? Am I just choosing the range, and then the software is generating random frequencies at random amplitudes within that range? Even if I turn off the “high” option and choose a single frequency, say 20Hz, it still doesn’t feel like 20Hz is the only frequency being generated.

 

[q445187]

When you get his, just leave em as they are, only adjust individual (internal/nested) volumes. There will be a global effect volume, then when you click the down arrow there are individual volumes inside.

 

[gek]

When you get his, just leave em as they are, only adjust individual (internal/nested) volumes. There will be a global effect volume, then when you click the down arrow there are individual volumes inside.

Right. Will do. I actually went back and gathered the few effects he posted early on in the thread - different versions of “Road Vibrations”.
I’m coming to grips with how to adjust effects (which I WON’T do with his 😁). For my own experimentation, though, I’d just like to understand how it works fundamentally. It seems to me that the telemetry would already tell the software the frequencies at which the suspension is moving, so I feel like I’m just misunderstanding how the whole thing works on a fundamental level.

 

[q445187]

That’s above my pay grade. GT7 has an effect because different cars, tires, settings, feel different, but the frequencies are (I think) only what he designs as to the actual signal reaching the exciters.

 

[gek]

Clearly, it’s above my pay grade, as well. 😂

 

[hawkeyez]

@Mr Latte I have not secured a hardback seat yet, but my “Tactiflex” concept/prototype is moving along quite nicely. I wonder if I might trouble you for access to the “old” effects that you offered me a few weeks ago. Thanks in advance.

Have you considered sewing a seat cover that slips over which holds the exciters tight against the seat? I’m kind of surprised the foldable chairs don’t have small pockets already sewn in for tactile feedback it seems like a no brainer. A pocket with a hole in the bottom for wires and a some Velcro to hold it all in place.

Seems ideal rather than a hard bucket seat since the vibrations would be very much more localized to some extent rather than sympathetically vibrating the entire race bucket seat.

It’s even more ideal than that tactile feedback thing you sit on H8 or something it’s called? Since having pockets on the back of the seat instead of throwing on top of your seat, you wouldn’t be sitting directly on the exciters, it would just be somewhat tight against your body.

Also it would be super cost effective since extra fabric for 6-8 pockets would be dirt cheap. The biggest issue I see with using a foldable race rig is making sure wires don’t get pinched or stressed opening and closing it all the time. That would be the only real challenge.

 

[gek]

Alright, so with just four exciters, I can totally see the potential, and that’s with ONLY the “road vibrations” that were posted early on in the thread. I still want to tweak the volume levels, but this is all VERY promising. My tactile “flexi-web” design seems to be holding up, and doing EXACTLY what it needs to do - providing localized feedback, but without being TOO direct. I’m excited!

 

[gek]

Have you considered sewing a seat cover that slips over which holds the exciters tight against the seat? I’m kind of surprised the foldable chairs don’t have small pockets already sewn in for tactile feedback it seems like a no brainer. A pocket with a hole in the bottom for wires and a some Velcro to hold it all in place.

I’ve considered a lot of things, lol. There was a guy a couple of pages back who riveted his exciters directly the seat, which, I believe, would have a similar effect. I think it would be TOO direct.

Seems ideal rather than a hard bucket seat since the vibrations would be very much more localized to some extent rather than sympathetically vibrating the entire race bucket seat.

I agree. It would be VERY much more localized, but I don’t think that’s necessarily the best result/only consideration. Somewhere in the middle, I think.

 

[q445187]

Alright, so with just four exciters, I can totally see the potential, and that’s with ONLY the “road vibrations” that were posted early on in the thread. I still want to tweak the volume levels, but this is all VERY promising. My tactile “flexi-web” design seems to be holding up, and doing EXACTLY what it needs to do - providing localized feedback, but without being TOO direct. I’m excited!

In an actual car, the feedback isn’t pin pointed, but “localized”, that’s what you want.

 

[gek]

The biggest issue I see with using a foldable race rig is making sure wires don’t get pinched or stressed opening and closing it all the time. That would be the only real challenge.

Phew…I HOPE that’s the biggest challenge.😁 I’m workin’ on the cable management. I AM using hollow CPVC pipe, after all.

 

[hawkeyez]

In an actual car, the feedback isn’t pin pointed, but “localized”, that’s what you want.

That’s true and in all fairness you don’t feel a whole lot in an actual car either. Probably less than any tactile feedback right. Take a gear shift for example, I would say that’s more of a hiccup in momentum rather than a clunk/quick vibration.

A motion rig technically should simulate something like that a lot more realistically. Exciters can do road vibration and engine vibration, maybe even loss of traction to some extent but as you say all of that isn’t really pin pointed, it’s actually not even localized at all.

It’s winter here now and the roads are sheer ice with packed rough snow on top, when you lose traction and your vehicle is a bit sideways, there is vibration but you can’t really tell if it’s front, back left or right at all. It’s a very muted all around the vehicle feeling. People say don’t do the four corners because it’s not detailed enough, but technically it would be more true to a real car.

A friend has their rig setup so it’s strictly informative, you don’t hardly feel anything at all UNLESS you’ve pushed it too far. I’ll admit I went the other direction, localized vibrations over four corners and I paid for this stuff so I’m putting road noise and engine vibration on etc!

 

[hawkeyez]

I’ve considered a lot of things, lol. There was a guy a couple of pages back who riveted his exciters directly the seat, which, I believe, would have a similar effect. I think it would be TOO direct.

I agree. It would be VERY much more localized, but I don’t think that’s necessarily the best result/only consideration. Somewhere in the middle, I think.

I see what you’re doing now, spreading it out some. The other picture it didn’t look like it would flex and curve at all but I see it does.

It’s crazy how people come up with all sorts of different ideas and solutions for this stuff. I’m still waiting on some more realistic sims for console, unfortunately GT7 is beginning to get a little long in the tooth for me now. Doesn’t help they keep changing their physics and the sensations are somewhat different in the wheel again. I have the G Pro and it’s ridiculous how different it feels today than it did when I first got it. You just get used of something then they change it up haha. Now we have some weird front tire scrub FFB, just seems to flick on and off. Somebody suggested I taking a wide sweeper and I’d notice it doesn’t just turn on when your creep up to scrubbing, but no it just appears out of nowhere still. Oh well. Better playing GT7 than nothing.

 

[gek]

Yep, it conforms to the user…it’s not QUITE as flexible as I’d like, but I’m limited by the format. This is just a prototype. If this proves the concept (and so far it has), I’ll begin work (I’m already doing a lot of planning) on a beta version, which will use 3D-printed custom parts, to try and achieve a perfect balance between flex and rigidity, while (hopefully) maintaining the same tactile dispersion qualities.