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GT7 & PSVR2
- Thread starter gtrotary
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- Metentso
Didn't realize you were adding this information! Can you put me in the "Yes" group? I will lower the stats for VR lol, will have to up my game!
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I have also gone from B to A with VR but of course it's probable that this would also have happened using a monitor. It's hard to isolate the variable as Lomic says.
For instance Kie25 said that VR made him slower in battle with another car, but he has spent many years getting all the information from a monitor. It would need to be compared with someone having used VR for a similar amount of time.
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330_D
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Yessir, please add me to the Y category!
I understand your point here but it's simply not the case. To play in VR for a period of time you begin to understand certain things about the game that it is impossible to understand, no matter how good a multiple curved monitor setup could ever mimic. Motion with VR must actually feel like driving a car, not playing a game. Perspective is much closer to reality for me so it's easier to carry over actual driving knowledge a little bit more in VR. There is less guesswork. You can literally see everything and you simply can't on a monitor in the same way.
I used to rely on guides. I don't need them anymore. I used to watch every video of every lap shared to get every single bit if knowledge I could to find gold. Now I just load up a fast ghost from my friend's leaderboard and chase. Generally my very first lap is well gold every trial lately. It is certainly a combination and culmination of things for me but not the least and probably the most significant of which is VR.
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TheNormsk
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I would definitely say that my improvement coincided with PSVR2! But I would also say my lack of interest in Sports also coincided with PSVR2.
It’s interesting that my enjoyment of time trials went up with VR as you get to experience the wider variety of cars and interiors you get with the TT over the typical Gr3 and Gr4 of sports.
I guess with sports, running with bumper cam, you never worry about the car as you can't see it anyway. To me, it’s less personal.
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I just wanted to understand exactly why you think it’s not good for sports mode or being fast/competitive.
This is VR of this weeks GV a year/6 months ago.
Couple of questions (there was a little bit of lag in the lobby)
1. What would have more hud given me in this instance?
2. How could I have driven better in another camera?
3. What is bad about VR in this race from both mine and my opponents perspective?
There is a growing number of GTP participants using VR and placing top 100/50/10 in the time trials, considering the low adoption rate especially for competitive modes for VR I’m sure it’s more “interesting” to see how people adapt, practice and get faster and where it all lands in the future rather than discount it based on a couple of hours (sic that’s what was implied by the editing) in sports mode at best.
It has loads and loads of flaws but so does every single camera mode in the game yet GTWS qualifiers have used Pad, Chase cam etc so it seems more about practice than it doesn’t “work”
Also apart from the delta and position list I’m not really sure what is missing, the track map is nice until you realise all that matters is what you can see in front and behind you.
As a side note, the more you understand exactly where the car is on the track, exactly how much of each corner is where it is the better driver you will be, your lines will become more natural your braking and acceleration will smooth out. You start to have a sense of personal spatial awareness, contact feels more real so you avoid it etc etc etc.
I get the current generation of fast guys would be hesitant or resistant to unlearning years of racing the way they know but that doesn’t mean that the next generation should follow their lead and think VR isn’t fast or competitive.
Tidgney
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I may have come across wrong I never said it's not good for sports mode, but if I had the choice between VR and non VR for sport mode racing I would pick non VR Sport mode racing everytime if I was to ensure I was to do my very best. I'll do my best to answer your questions though from my perspective;
1) A 4 lap sprint race yes there's not much more it could have done other than tell you more of who is around you. But when I talk about sport mode I talk about it in a more generalised sense, so Daily A,B+C and GTWS. I have to be generic with this so apologies if it comes across wrong, but if there's 2 GTWS races a week plus a C I take into account there's a potential of 3 races with strategies vs 2 that aren't so the HUD would be better in this scenario to see tyre choices people have selected before or at the race start. The only additional thing I would want to see is the gaps / distance to drivers. How do you know if someone is taking a penalty or not?
2) How you can drive better in another camera is just personal aspect. I did a test on cameras in a seperate video a few years ago where I was driving on bonnet for a long time. But after that test I switched to bumper as I saw a speed increase. What I would argue with cockpit camera, and this is the same in any game (And also in real life on circuit) is whichever side of the car you are on you are more than likely going to be missing an apex or not maximising the circuit on the far side of the car. That is very common to happen. Bumper / Bonnet you would not suffer this.
3) This is where bumper cam really has its advantages, if you had the rear view it would be very obvious and clear where the car on your left is at 2:11 for example. Yes you may see it on radar but (Again I can't judge this because I'm not you and have no idea of your vision / peripheral vision) but a large portion would miss the arrow on the radar on the right. I have very VERY Good peripheral vision (Has been confirmed by professional to) which I attribute to my esports days from Starcraft and Warcraft and I still missed that when I raced in VR because I focused on looking at the track further ahead (Which I do in real life to whenever I do go on circuit). So with that in mind you potentially can miss what oppotunents are doing around you, literally like my first race. Yes it was my first race, but even in races I've done later (I did one on stream in February I think it was) it was still extremely hard to judge exactly where someone is or what they are about to do. Where as bumper cam, radar in centre (Consistently) so everything is within eye reach and always in the same place which is critical in maximising performance in sport mode or any "competitive" environment.
Where someone is in time trial mode is very different to racing in GT. Again I'm not saying you can't be fast but if you (I mean me here, but more in general to, not you specifically) want to maximise performance VR is not the best option in my opinion for the majority. If you want just fun and as I say in the video then use it, similarly if people want to pick their favourite car over the meta car it's the same example but I personally wouldn't use it for Sport Mode.
So for me, or anyone chasing to get their absolute best then I think the majority (And remember this is my opinion, I'm not stating it as a fact or anything) of people should focus on a single racing perspective for sports mode and then a fun racing perspective for everything else. There are weaknesses with everything, Car, Camera, Hardware (I don't use a load cell which limits me and I have to explain that at least once a week to somebody, which I don't mind) but there's a reason the majority of the top players use Bumper/Bonnet (Yes some use chase, but talking majority) and the majority use wheels and that's because it's the quickest way to play.
I hope that explains my opinion a little better ☺️ and sorry it's a little long but thought I'd answer as you asked me (I don't mind answering any questions on anything I do or have experienced etc.).
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I appreciate the response @Tidgney I also have a child so I appreciate how time is stretched especially in the first days, weeks, months and years and then you wake up and they are 11 and you think “bloody hell where did that time go and why am I all of a sudden!”
We will disagree on this, I won’t go in to dissecting or point by point as it’s ok to disagree. One thing I did want to mention is that it’s a mindset change and that it’s not about peripheral vision but overall awareness and being cognisant of where I am vs people around me. Just like real life and traffic…
The other thing which I think is a pretty arguable point was the left hand drive vs right hand drive apex thing. That is utter rubbish, it’s just practice and the amount of apexes you miss, rory misses, Steve misses etc in central cams….
The strategy thing is just like real life, don’t let their strategy dictate yours. But agree on on slotting in to gaps is harder but not game braking sports mode wise. I do A, B, C and GTWS sprint and strat races and don’t have the perceived problems you mentioned.
As I said those at the sharp end with the tools they know have very very little motivation to go backwards to potentially go forwards. But honestly it is a better way for most people to drive near other objects and makes the game a tangible experience rather than arcade like feeling.
Edit here is a longer Daily C the same race in VR and Bumper cam. I raced in VR
This is the same race from both camera perspectives and is A/S so the sharper end pace, control and awareness wise. I don’t feel like I’d of personally driven better out VR
Bumper cam
Same race in VR
We will disagree on this, I won’t go in to dissecting or point by point as it’s ok to disagree. One thing I did want to mention is that it’s a mindset change and that it’s not about peripheral vision but overall awareness and being cognisant of where I am vs people around me. Just like real life and traffic…
The other thing which I think is a pretty arguable point was the left hand drive vs right hand drive apex thing. That is utter rubbish, it’s just practice and the amount of apexes you miss, rory misses, Steve misses etc in central cams….
The strategy thing is just like real life, don’t let their strategy dictate yours. But agree on on slotting in to gaps is harder but not game braking sports mode wise. I do A, B, C and GTWS sprint and strat races and don’t have the perceived problems you mentioned.
As I said those at the sharp end with the tools they know have very very little motivation to go backwards to potentially go forwards. But honestly it is a better way for most people to drive near other objects and makes the game a tangible experience rather than arcade like feeling.
Edit here is a longer Daily C the same race in VR and Bumper cam. I raced in VR
This is the same race from both camera perspectives and is A/S so the sharper end pace, control and awareness wise. I don’t feel like I’d of personally driven better out VR
Bumper cam
Same race in VR
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- 29
- Poland
I'm by no means fast, but on most tracks I'm faster and more consistent on VR than flat screen (32inch curved monitor) in TT. When I was using 48inch TV it was more equal. There are some caveats of using VR though, already mentioned in this thread:
- Lack of HUD info - I race in a league where raceses are around 1h long and strategy is always a factor. I have no bloody idea whether someone is gaining time on me and I should push more or if someone is pitting and I have safe advantage. I might experiment with Race Engineer app in upcoming races.
- Visibility in some cars - it's generally worse than tail or bonnet cam on flat screen. Radar helps a bit, but again, more customizable HUD would be nice, so I can move radar to the center of the screen. In some cars (usually road- based) like Gr4 Lancer it's OK, but take Gr1 Porsche 919 and it's almost not possible to see anything on your sides or back.
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I'd say racing benefits more from VR than TT. The improved spatial awareness helps when you are forced to constantly change and adapt your lines and braking points. Hot lapping by using same lines and markers lap after lap is just as easy on a screen.
Im pretty sure the lack of hud information on vr is the usual way of PD limiting advantages by creating disadvantages. Same as they have done with different views on a screen for years and years already.
Im pretty sure the lack of hud information on vr is the usual way of PD limiting advantages by creating disadvantages. Same as they have done with different views on a screen for years and years already.
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Tired Tyres
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I'm a D grade driver so I will be leaving a lot of time on the track but I am consistently faster in VR than I am under any other view. I'd say it's look to apex is where I gain time.
Tidgney
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I'm not sure we'll ever agree on this one but as you say it's all good. I can only go off mine and general data perspective of all of this in that if VR was the optimum and best way to race it would be the go to for every single sim out there and you'd see it in every single esports event in racing but we don't. A lot of people race on massive screens which also isn't the most optimum and I'd argue in that scenario VR is better (GT at live events sometimes have massive screens in a bad position and it's horrendous as you can't see everything). I'm on a 27" screen and my face is about 2 metres away from the screen so can easily see everything.
The apex thing is very, very real thing. It's definitely not rubbish you will be missing some limits vs bumper cam even if they don't realise. This gets less impactful the lower the DR rating though because the lower DR rating you go it's more about how you drive and chances of missing apexes on any camera are higher. But even in real life, you are more likely to miss an apex on the opposite corner you are driving on (I've had more than 1 professional driver say this), similarly to when people park a car and they struggle with the far side of the car. They know roughly where it is but could be missing it by inches, but inches is time in racing.
Also and don't all jump on me with this as I need to test it (I've just written it down to test awhile ago). I found it felt like that when I was in VR there was an additional driving aid on for wheel spin (Bit like the pad has secret ones). I need to test this though so I'm not saying this is a matter of fact. But that could also be camera related, could be anything just something I'm going to be testing.
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I have seen people miss apexes at all levels in all the various cams….
It’s just practice especially as we generally have limited exposure switching RHD to LHD regularly for most people especially at racing speeds. Racing is all about precision but that’s a spectrum not a finite. Parking next to a Veyron in a multi story car park requires inch perfect precision, racing on the other hand precision can be overcome with braking or acceleration, carried speed rather than outright placement. It’s doing them all that makes them the .001% and not just 1% of drivers
What I have been told by various instructors over the years is that you’ll tend to over clip the apex on the offside due to the tendency to turn too early. It’s why you see lots more apex bollard clipping on the offside in touring cars rather than the near side.
The same thing is in effect when doing track days on my motorbike, I had a side I was much more comfortable riding my knee on the other side was all fine but never felt quite as smooth.
I think there is something in this, at first I put it down to slightly more natural throttle management and better timing/smoothness of throttle because the field of view let me have much less lock on and wind off better to match the throttle. That is probably part of it but I do feel sometimes it’s a little too good traction in getting.
That said the interesting thing is that in the 2 videos I posted of the same race the throttle and brake overlays look about what you’d expect and I did my fair share of catching some rear movement.
There is a question with this hypothesis though and that’s “why would they do this for wheel and pedal users only in VR? What makes bumper cam or bonnet cam or chase cam different?”
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