GTP Cool Wall: 1984-1994 Peugeot 205 GTi

[Adamgp]

And herein lies the problem. Keeping consistent is code for "making a sweeping generalisation," and is not really a good thing. All it means is that you can look at something that you're not sure about and state an opinion without really thinking. Not every hot hatch is cool. Not every muscle car is cool either. Just because I know less about muscle cars doesn't mean I maintain the same opinion for every single one.

I am consistent in my opinion that hatchbacks (hot, warm, tepid, cold, or otherwise) are not cool.

Totally agree. So you shouldn't be surprised when someone who doesn't share your opinion wishes to debate it, particularly when said opinion comes across as generally dismissive rather than a well-considered judgement. Asking "why?" is what makes a debate interesting. Otherwise we'd just be left with a group of people bashing their skulls into one another for supremacy.

Nothing wrong with asking for a further explanation of why one voted a certain way.

Debates in these threads I find rather pointless. On the off chance that you were able to change my opinion about this car, I can't change my vote.

My point - and one that has been reiterated time and time again in these threads - is that power is not the be-all and end-all of either performance driving, or indeed coolness. I, and many others, struggle to understand why some people are seemingly incapable of understanding that a car outside of their very small niche might possibly be cool too.

Never said power was the be-all end-all, in fact I never made any mention of power, or lack thereof as a reason for the SU vote.

 

[Zenith]

You guys are making assumptions about AdamGP's reasoning instead of reading his posts.

You're not arguing against JMoney or W&N, you're discussing with Adam.

In some ways you've proven some what he has to say about Hot Hatches. Acting like you have something to prove is not cool.

The car is still cool and he's wrong though.

 

[DK]

For the fun, of course. We used to take cars that were destined for the scrapyard for one last day of fun. Hillclimbing against a muddy/grassy hill. It was so steep that most of the cars never got higher than having their rear wheels also on the incline. Until the police came to our spot on a regular basis. Damn coppers.

A 1.9 GTi was and is still the only FWD vehicle that reached the top. Mostly due to the grippy tires but still, it received a good bit respect that day.

I'm not sure what surprised me more: that you got a 205 GTi to the top of a slippery, muddy hill, or that you found such a hill in the Netherlands.

 

[Dennisch]

I'm not sure what surprised me more: that you got a 205 GTi to the top of a slippery, muddy hill, or that you found such a hill in the Netherlands.

It's a man made hill which leads to a bridge with a highway on it. Too much throttle near the top meant that you could watch the traffic coming at you.

 

[Kent]

I said cool because I like it.
If I were to judge based on TG cool wall standards relative to the USA (my home, you know, where things are in context to my culture, etc etc ), it would end up in the meh to almost uncool.
Thank god I vote based on my opinion and not my opinion of what other people's opinions would be. (what a bunch of pretentious crap that is )

 

[GTP_Ingram]

I am consistent in my opinion that hatchbacks (hot, warm, tepid, cold, or otherwise) are not cool.

You've just repeated exactly what I felt the issue was in the first place.

Debates in these threads I find rather pointless. On the off chance that you were able to change my opinion about this car, I can't change my vote.

Personally I don't mind having my mind changed, it means I've probably learned something new. Doesn't really matter whether I can change my vote or not.

Never said power was the be-all end-all, in fact I never made any mention of power, or lack thereof as a reason for the SU vote.

Not as lame as other "hot" hatches.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but the speech marks were used to denote sarcasm? As in, lacking power?

 

[Adamgp]

You've just repeated exactly what I felt the issue was in the first place.?

Seems like you needed verification? So there you go.

Personally I don't mind having my mind changed, it means I've probably learned something new. Doesn't really matter whether I can change my vote or not.?

Good for you. However, I don't change position that easily. I guess we differ in that on the rare occasion I do change my view, it would be nice to reflect that in the voting.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but the speech marks were used to denote sarcasm? As in, lacking power?

Yes and no. As I mentioned before, I have made no reference to the 205's power output.

The " " are more to poke fun at the term hot hatch.

 

[KinLM]

Seems like you needed verification? So there you go.



Good for you. However, I don't change position that easily. I guess we differ in that on the rare occasion I do change my view, it would be nice to reflect that in the voting.



Yes and no. As I mentioned before, I have made no reference to the 205's power output.

The " " are more to poke fun at the term hot hatch.

And why would you be poking fun at that term?

If they weren't actually quite quick, then I doubt they'd have the appeal that they do. You seem to be letting your own ignorance cloud what other people are telling you because you don't want to be "wrong."

 

[Adamgp]

And why would you be poking fun at that term?

If they weren't actually quite quick, then I doubt they'd have the appeal that they do. You seem to be letting your own ignorance cloud what other people are telling you because you don't want to be "wrong."

Because an automaker adds a little extra power, some nicer wheels, and some stickers to a plain run-of-the-mill hatchback and call it a hot hatch.

And how can a personal opinion on something like a car's coolness be wrong?

 

[Legro]

Because an automaker adds a little extra power, some nicer wheels, and some stickers to a plain run-of-the-mill hatchback and call it a hot hatch.

Because automaker adds bigger engine and some series numbers to run-of-the-mill coupe and people call it a muscle car.

 

[Moglet]

That low weight means that on the right road it has a genuine giant killing quality, too, as the owner of a Maserati GranTurismo I once came across found out to his cost

That must have been one bloody small road.

Regarding the coolness, I still really like the 205 GTi. It's one of the few Peugeots I would ever consider owning and I think they still look fantastic today. I saw a really broken looking one on my drive to work last week and it made me genuinely sad to see one going unloved

 

[MatskiMonk]

That must have been one bloody small road.

Regarding the coolness, I still really like the 205 GTi. It's one of the few Peugeots I would ever consider owning and I think they still look fantastic today. I saw a really broken looking one on my drive to work last week and it made me genuinely sad to see one going unloved

Despite my dislike for this car and my mini-rant earlier, they are fast cars, and great on the back roads... they are so agile that my mates dad managed to land his on it's roof without even loosing a wing-mirror.

 

[JAHHAJ]

This is one of the best hot hatches ever made along with the Golf MK1 GTI, Sub Zero.

 

[GTP_Ingram]

That must have been one bloody small road.

Regarding the coolness, I still really like the 205 GTi. It's one of the few Peugeots I would ever consider owning and I think they still look fantastic today. I saw a really broken looking one on my drive to work last week and it made me genuinely sad to see one going unloved

It was the A702, runs from Edinburgh to the M74 south of Glasgow. In one or two places there are some long straight bits, but other parts are pretty narrow and twisty. Assuming there isn't a lorry or an old lady trudging along at 35mph, it's a fun road!

I've seen two other 205s in my area recently, though one of those has been sold, so it could be anywhere now. The other is laser green (the brighter green they came in) and has the Mi-16 engine swap, so I imagine it's quite exciting..

 

[Sage Ages]

Then they will roll their eyes and walk away.

If they resort to violence because they get a little bored, they have issues.

You're missing the point.

 

[Adamgp]

You're missing the point.

Do tell.

 

[Dennisch]

Gaw, I feel so special being able to vote cool on both a Euro hot hatch and American muscle.

 

[Stotty]

Alongside the Golf GTi mkII 16v, R5 Turbo and Clio Williams as one of the very best hot hatches of all time.

Low weight, torquey, and incredible handling... so much adjustability, so much lift oversteer

If you've never driven one, you simply have no idea how good they were.

Sub zero.

 

[Tornado]

You're missing the point.

There really wasn't much of one to actually miss.

 

[Badasp5.0]

I am torn between cool and meh on this one.

 

[Joey D]

Cool. Small, FWD, French, hot hatchback. Even being from the 80's-90's doesn't hurt it.

 

[RandomCarGuy17]

By the TG Cool Wall rules of it being small & french; it's automatically cool. I'd say it's a high cool, it's verging on sub-zero, but it's not there yet.

 

[SlipZtrEm]

Because an automaker adds a little extra power, some nicer wheels, and some stickers to a plain run-of-the-mill hatchback and call it a hot hatch.

And how can a personal opinion on something like a car's coolness be wrong?

It's amazing you don't approve, since that's the exact same approach American automakers used for decades for muscle cars. Take a regular run-of-the-mill vehicle, drop a hotter engine in, and there you go. The hot hatch is the modern equivalent really. The performance car for the average guy.

 

[Adamgp]

It's amazing you don't approve, since that's the exact same approach American automakers used for decades for muscle cars. Take a regular run-of-the-mill vehicle, drop a hotter engine in, and there you go. The hot hatch is the modern equivalent really. The performance car for the average guy.

Except the original muscle car formula was an intermediate (mid size) car with a large car engine. The cars they were based off of were a bit more upscale than a bottom rung hatchback.

 

[ScottPuss20]

This car is the definition of Peugeot. Cool

 

[Zenith]

Except the original muscle car formula was an intermediate (mid size) car with a large car engine. The cars they were based off of were a bit more upscale than a bottom rung hatchback.

Hatchbacks are no more "bottom rung" than sedans. Smaller does not mean cheaper or worse.

 

[XS]

I think the 205 GTi is cool. Unfortunately I can't just only factor that in. I also have to consider how I would look driving one where I live for example. And it's not so much that nobody around here would find a European hot hatch cool, as it is the "tuner" scene around here is so insanely absurd that even if the car was completely stock, most people would rather set it on fire than appreciate it for what it is. 90% of people who own a hot hatch around here are the type who literally think 5 inch coffee can mufflers add 50hp. I just couldn't drive the 205 around and not worry about being horrifically embarrassed to be mistaken for one of those people. Also, finding one in America isn't exactly easy or inexpensive. That said, I just can't vote uncool. Meh it is.

 

[AlvaroF]

The original breed. Plus my favourite hot-hatch along side the MK1 GTI. Very cool

 

[King Kraven]

SU

 

[KinLM]

SU

Care to say why?