GTP Cool Wall: McLaren MP4/4

[Roger the Horse]

I was fully aware of the existence of 962 road cars, however none of them were built by the Porsche factory directly, and all of them long after the car's racing days were over. Also, I think there are a damn few more racing 962s in existence than 962s converted for road use.

Even if the 962 was a bad example, my point still stands that there are plenty of racing cars which the "average Joe" is far more likely to own than plenty of road cars. A better example might be a Van Diemen FF1600 car. You'll never see one of those on the road, but the "Average Joe" really is far more likely to drive one of those than a McLaren F1 or a Bugatti Veyron.

 

[Famine]

I was fully aware of the existence of 962 road cars, however none of them were built by the Porsche factory directly, and all of them long after the car's racing days were over.

Conversely all of the 917s were built as road cars first...

Also, I think there are a damn few more racing 962s in existence than 962s converted for road use.

Which is irrelevant.

Even if the 962 was a bad example, my point still stands that there are plenty of racing cars which the "average Joe" is far more likely to own than plenty of road cars. A better example might be a Van Diemen FF1600 car. You'll never see one of those on the road, but the "Average Joe" really is far more likely to drive one of those than a McLaren F1 or a Bugatti Veyron.

Which is bollocks. You're not getting into a single seat racer on your own without additional training - whereas you can sit in any road car that isn't a BAC Mono without any actual training of any kind.

As for driving it, you can drive any road car with a standard road licence and the owner (which won't be you) can sit in it with you if he chooses for his own peace of mind. And the Formula Ford... (or that 962 you're racing) needs additional racing licences with further training and then you have to go drive it on your own while the owners look on.


Yeah, the solo single-seater that requires an advanced race licence is much more likely to be driven by an average Joe than a road car.

 

[Roger the Horse]

Yeah, the solo single-seater that requires an advanced race licence is much more likely to be driven by an average Joe than a road car.

Depends how much that "average Joe" wants to drive said FF1600 car. If they are prepared to go through said training to obtain said licences and are able to find the money and / or whatever else they may need, driving that single seater racing car is nowhere near the realms of impossibility for them, while driving an early sixties road going Ferrari that costs €10 million probably is, even if no special licences or training are required to do so. In turn that "average Joe" is probably far more likely to one day find themselves behind the wheel of a Nissan GTR or a BMW M3 than any of the cars mentioned above, but you could extend that logic further by saying that they're far more likely to find themselves behind the wheel of a Peugeot 207 than either of those.

 

[Famine]

Depends how much that "average Joe" wants to drive said FF1600 car. If they are prepared to go through said training to obtain said licences and are able to find the money and / or whatever else they may need, driving that single seater racing car is nowhere near the realms of impossibility for them

Which moves them out of the bracket of "average Joe" right off.

Average Joe doesn't have a racing licence (0.06% of adults in the UK), but he does have a driving licence (72% of adults in the UK). Average Joe cannot drive a Formula Ford tomorrow, because he doesn't have racing licence. But he can drive a Ferrari 250GTO or a Mercedes CLK GTR road car tomorrow, despite not having a racing licence.

And if Average Joe is 16, he can sit in the 250GTO or CLK-GTR while it's being driven, despite not having any licence. Not going to happen in a Formula Ford.

 

[Roger the Horse]

Indeed. But in reality, the odds of a set of circumstances leading to any "average Joe" you find on the street becoming part of that 0.06% of adults with a racing licence are probably pretty close to the chances of said "average Joe" ever being able to afford the insurance to be able to actually drive a Ferrari 250 GTO, even if that is the only barrier stopping them from driving said car, at which point they also cease to be an "average Joe".

My argument is not that racing cars are accessible to the "average Joe", as they most certainly are not. My argument is that some road cars are equally inaccessible, albeit for differing reasons.

 

[Famine]

Indeed. But in reality, the odds of a set of circumstances leading to any "average Joe" you find on the street becoming part of that 0.06% of adults with a racing licence are probably pretty close to the chances of said "average Joe" ever being able to afford the insurance to be able to actually drive a Ferrari 250 GTO, even if that is the only barrier stopping them from driving said car, at which point they also cease to be an "average Joe".

Tripe.

Third party use of other vehicles (with the owner's permission) is included in almost every fully comprehensive motor policy in the UK. They can also be driven on track with the owner's permission without requiring any valid insurance - though as Mark Hales showed us (ironically with a Porsche 917 - though he not only has a very high level racing licence but is a professional racing driver too. Hardly Average Joe), it's probably not wise to take the owner up on this.

My argument is not that racing cars are accessible to the "average Joe", as they most certainly are not. My argument is that some road cars are equally inaccessible, albeit for differing reasons.

Then your argument is false and has been demonstrated to be false.

I simply could not, under any circumstances, drive a McLaren MP4/4 tomorrow - even if McLaren or Honda brought one to me and gave me their permission. Nor could 99.9999% (assuming it's limited to past and present super licence holders) of the adult population of the UK. If the owner of the world's rarest and most expensive road car brought me one tomorrow and gave me their permission to drive it, I'd only need the keys. As would 72% of the adult population of the UK.

Race cars are fundamentally 100% inaccessible for the overwhelming majority of people. Incredibly rare and expensive road cars are merely incredibly unlikely to be accessible to the same people - but accessible they are.

 

[Wolfe]

Accessible they may be, but practically speaking I'm never going to drive most of the incredibly rare and expensive roadcars out there. Maybe a couple in my lifetime if I'm lucky enough. There's not even any guarantee that I'll see any rare or expensive roadcars in action, whereas anyone can see a racecar in action by attending a race. Part of the point is that they strut their stuff for the public.

So while I get it that a car like the MP4/4 isn't really a "car" for you and me, it's just as relevant to my personal preferences and subjective approval as any rare and expensive roadcar, if not moreso. It's not like I base all of my other cool wall votes on the driving experience -- I specifically said I wouldn't enjoy driving the Town & Country much, but I thought it was cool anyway. So who cares if I'll literally never drive the MP4/4 at all. I think it's cool anyway.

 

[BKGlover]

Results Time:

In the case of the McLaren MP4/4, the voting members of GTPlanet have defied the majority, and determined that it is merely Cool.

 

[Shoe67]

Results Time:

In the case of the McLaren MP4/4, the voting members of GTPlanet have defied the majority, and determined that it is merely Cool.

The voting shows it was Sub-zero though...?

 

[Roger the Horse]

It's averaged out. Enough people voted below Sub Zero for it to come out as merely Cool.

 

[Jahgee]

Why don't we just make the scoring system as this

Extremely Uncool: -2
Uncool: -1
Meh: 0
Cool: 1
Sub Zero: 2

Add all of them together and divide them by the number of votes.

 

[BKGlover]

Because I already am. Congratulations, you have just figured out my formula.

 

[Jahgee]

Because I already am. Congratulations, you have just figured out my formula.

, didn't even know, thought it was some weird formula