boiltheocean
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It looks big enough to just squeeze in a slab of butter. but no more.
GTP Cool Wall : Mini Clubman VOTE!
- Thread starter boiltheocean
- 63 comments
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- GTP_EA11R
Yes, possibly my all-time favourite truck. Okay, almost definitely.
The existence of the Clubman today just compliments the MINI's versatility, just as in the past with the Mini. Also, journalists speak of how the new Clubman sacrifices less in agility than it gains in stability, versus standard Mini.
Maybe I'm the only one who sees the total win of the Clubman JCW. Google it; I feel I shouldn't put much more win in this thread regardless.
The existence of the Clubman today just compliments the MINI's versatility, just as in the past with the Mini. Also, journalists speak of how the new Clubman sacrifices less in agility than it gains in stability, versus standard Mini.
Maybe I'm the only one who sees the total win of the Clubman JCW. Google it; I feel I shouldn't put much more win in this thread regardless.
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- Philippines
And that is the biggest reason this car is Uncool.
I'm not going to argue about handling. Most journos say it doesn't really drive much different from the base car. You lose little to none of the MINI nimbleness.
But fact is, the (slight) gain in luggage space does not outweigh the major loss of mojo. And no, it's not a 5-door hatchback... it's a 3-door+hatchback. And that alone screams gimmicky... but a sort of semi-committed gimmicky for the sake of being gimmicky.
Mazda, at least, went the whole hog and put two suicide rear doors... MINI didn't even bother to put one on the correct side for the British market... Then they went with the vertical split-tailgate just to build a link to the old Clubman. This is silly retro on the level of the GT-R and 370Z C-pillar: functionally compromised and of questionable taste.
But no, it's not for the lack of practicality that the Clubman is uncool. It's for the complete butchering of the MINI charisma for a limited gain in practicality that it's seriously uncool.
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- Anoka, MN
Well at least they have a wiper for each rear window! 
- 21,286
- GR-MI-USA
- YSSMAN
- YSSMAN
I see them in blue, all the time. Always blue.
There is a Clubman ONE coming...
*Linky*
I'd vote for that pretty easily. Functionality + fuel economy + lower price = win.
You are totally wrong. The handling is actually improved by the longer wheelbase shifting the centre of gravity a little. You have obviously never driven one.
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- 509
Handling is a relative term. The center of gravity has moved up as well. And longer wheelbases provide greater high speed stability at the cost of low speed responsiveness. Which is part of the Mini's appeal - tight dynamics at low speeds, which makes it great for autocross and urban stuff.
If it had a large V6 and several hundred horses, a longer wheel base would make sense.
You obviously haven't driven many cars and noticed the difference that weight and wheelbase make for dynamics.
I am split on this one. The Clubman could be cool but at the same time I don't know if it is.
It's nothing like the original (old) Mini but you could say the same for the normal BMW one also. A the same time this car could be cool although I do think the back is kind of ugly in real life.
It's nothing like the original (old) Mini but you could say the same for the normal BMW one also. A the same time this car could be cool although I do think the back is kind of ugly in real life.
- 9,646
- Minus955
I never really knew why i despised the new Minis so much, but you've really hit the nail on the head. Thank you.
Seriously uncool. I haven't gotten a chance to sit in one of these yet. But given how hard it is to see into the back of it, i can only imagine how bad it is once you're inside.
And people buy their cars for handling? Seriously? I can only see that coming in handy if you have a tendency to cut people off everyday.
boiltheocean
Premium
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Seriously Uncool wins!
Picture in results thread soon, Issues with Imageshack. Seems I've run out of Bandwidth
If some would be so kind as to go on Imageshack, upload this image (http://www.thetorquereport.com/2008_mini_clubman_blue.jpg) click the re-size to Avatar size and remove the size bar thing. Then send me Forum Hotlink 1.
Picture in results thread soon, Issues with Imageshack. Seems I've run out of Bandwidth
If some would be so kind as to go on Imageshack, upload this image (http://www.thetorquereport.com/2008_mini_clubman_blue.jpg) click the re-size to Avatar size and remove the size bar thing. Then send me Forum Hotlink 1.
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- 9,646
- Minus955
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Autocross? I really don't think enough people have time to visit the race track in order for handling to determine a car's usefulness.
And i don't know about you, but even my parents' 2000 Dodge Durango responds when i tell it to.I don't see how it wouldn't.
You haven't driven a good handling car I can see. The tires alone on the Durango would pollute the steering response to irritating levels with their tread depth. Then ride height, center of gravity, pivot point, ability to late brake, and so on.
The Mini made its name on being nimble and good handling. Otherwise it would just be another small crap box car from long ago. People are commenting on this being a backwards step.
You originally said you don't see why handling wouldn't figure into buying, but now you've changed it to usefulness. Those are different things. Lots of people don't buy a car for its usefulness or else we'd all drive small mini hatches or trucks or wagons.
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- Minus955
Maybe i'm naive but i just don't care about handling on my car. Turns out my RSX has a far worse turn radius than the Durango due to the wheels i've put on.
As far as i'm concerned, superior handling is only good if you're a) accident prone and need to avoid something quickly, or b) just an ass of a driver who swerves and cuts people off.Eh what i'm really getting at is that handling is pretty much moot in a daily driver, that's all. I think you can agree that autocross enthusiasts are a relatively small market segment, particularly in the US.
I used the term "usefulness" just as a generality for the basic appeal and worth of a car, y'know?
///M-Spec
Staff Emeritus
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Has it occurred to you that it is possible to enjoy a good handling car while not anywhere near another car?
I realize you're posting from Dade County, where you can pretty much walk from Miami to Palm Beach by stepping from the roof of one car to the next, but I think you need a reality check on what the rest of the world is like.
M
boiltheocean
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SweetshopUnion
Arr Huh huh Hmm. Help Please.
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Maybe i'm naive but i just don't care about handling on my car. Turns out my RSX has a far worse turn radius than the Durango due to the wheels i've put on.
Eh what i'm really getting at is that handling is pretty much moot in a daily driver, that's all. I think you can agree that autocross enthusiasts are a relatively small market segment, particularly in the US.
I used the term "usefulness" just as a generality for the basic appeal and worth of a car, y'know?
You are naive in thinking the handling of a car is irrelevant in marketing it. And you've taken a car with a capable chassis and suspension (in S trim) and ruined it.
A lot of people hate driving sloppy feeling cars. Not just hard core autocross people. You are making some massive assumptions and making an ass of yourself in the process. There is something about driving a car that will do what you want it to do when you ask, instead of being wishy washy on it. Get some proper wheels and tires on your RSX and a decent alignment and you maybe begin to see.
And as M said, we don't all live in massively over populated areas that are nothing but congestion.
I also don't see why having a car that stops fast, turns quickly, and responds predictably is a bad thing.
boiltheocean
Premium
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Got the image issue sorted out now, seems it didn't like the link, but it never told me so.
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- Minus955
That's true.
Wow uh, you really need to chill out. I don't understand your hostility here?
I don't have the S trim anyway, i own the Base. And it's 6 years old (but with only 62k miles, i'm proud to say), so i don't really expect it to swerve around corners. I treat it like my baby, and i know i shouldn't be swinging around corners or anything. I like how it looks with wheels and lowered, so don't patronize me about it. I don't have to please you.
You cannot tell me that a country who has foamed at the mouth over SUVs is interested in a car that handles well. At least not the majority of that country. Have you seen pickup truck commercials recently?
Congested roads are the American way. Unless maybe if you live in the country, in which case you'd probably think that Lotus Elise is a hot new popstar.
I'm looking at the auto market as a business, not an entertainment industry. I'm a business student, sorry.
Of course it's fun to drive a car that handles well, but i don't see it as a major selling point in the US. Which is sad.
///M-Spec
Staff Emeritus
- 4,928
Because in your previous post, you implied that people who bought cars for their handling are either a) incompetent or b) pricks.
You are also drawing a sloppy conclusion based on a generally solid fact. Indeed, most Americans do not want or need an exceptionally well handling car. But that doesn't validate your assumption that therefore NO ONE should want an exceptionally well handling car.
It's like saying because the vast majority of Americans enjoy eating pizza, therefore NO ONE has any reason NOT to like pizza.
It's illogical. And silly.
M
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- Minus955
Hmm, yeah that was a poor statement on my part. And likewise with the similar statement from my first post in here. I would have been a little clearer, because i didn't think it would be taken so personally. Sorry.
I never said no one should buy a well handling car, i was simply discussing that exact lack of interest in it.
New cars are expensive. When something requires at least a $15,000 investment - in this case a $20,000 investment just for a bare bones Mini and $21,000 for a bare bones Clubman -there are certain factors that just stick out more than others, so it makes it easier to create generalities IMO. It's a lot different from a slice of pizza.
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Large prices don't make generalities anymore valid, though I am curious what these factors that stick out more are in your mind, since you can get bigger cars for less money with near as good fuel economy.
On the congested roads, they are not as big of an issue as you seem to think. Major cities like LA and Miami and New York have the hyper congestion issues, but a lot of other cities, such as Seattle, just have traffic issues in select areas, and generally at select time (I-5 for example) with plenty of fun roads not more than half an hour out of the city or so.
And now you make it sound like 6 year old cars (Which aren't really old at all) can't handle anyway. No, you don't have to please me with your over sized wheels and likely over lowered car, but you also need to stop speaking like you understand everything about the car market and drivers with your massive generalizations.
Halo cars, good handling cars, fun cars all work to attract people to a brand, even if they are not going to buy that particular car. People will buy an Impreza because it is cheaper than an STi, though they find it related being a Subaru and having the same body. Then tack on go fast looking bits, or lower it and put on larger wheels to imitate performance, much like you've done. Most people that have bought Minis, that I've known, have done it for the looks or the handling. And this isn't just my autocross buddies.
And just cause I may be in a less urban area does not mean I am in the country... far too much of an absolute there. An Elise would be terrible in the true country anyhow, with its dirt roads and such.
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If I heard someone saying they owned a Clubman, I'd ask why they didn't buy the cool Mini (new Mini, I should say, the old one is far cooler than both, though). Combined with a trully odd look, it's uncool. Kind of car I actually smirk at if I saw it on the road. Don't see many of them, which says something else, too.
