GTP Cool Wall Nomination Thread-CURRENTLY CLOSED

[Tornado]

I feel that Joey's set-up with the rules and standards were fine, so I will just reuse them for this thread.

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To discuss how you define cool or what makes cars cool/uncool please visit this thread by Stotty:
How do you define a 'COOL' car?

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You may not currently place your nominations in this thread, but please follow the rules.

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Rules:

• Only one car per person until your car has been polled, then you are free to make another suggestion.
• Please post the model year range the car was made, if you do not post a year range your nomination gets skipped.
• Please be specific in nominating your car (engine, chassis, etc.), failure to do so will result in a skip.
• Do not nominate any of the exact same vehicles that have already been polled.
• Racecars are allowed, please be accurate about it though. Include team, racing series, etc.
• Concept cars are not allowed, if the car is questionable I'll ask you to prove to me it's in production.
• Only nominations made in this thread will be added to the list, please do not write on my GTP profile, PM me or e-mail suggestions.
• Please post basic specs or a link to basic specs with your nomination (preferably the same specs or easily converted ones like those used in this example), failure to do so will have it skipped over.
• Get your nomination right the first time.
• Cars will be selected in chronological order, so it's first come first served.
• Please try and be original. You are free to nominate anything that fits in the rules but nominating something like a Ferrari F50 is a bit pointless. Like I said though, you are free to nominate how you see fit.
• If your nomination is skipped, you will have a chance to redo it, however please make a new post with the correct information as I am not going back to the previous incorrect post. Your nomination will also go to the bottom of the queue.

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How it Works:

• You nominate a car and it goes into the queue, assuming you followed the rules.
• The nomination list will be closed once the queue has reached 30.
• The nomination list will be opened when it runs out and then refilled to 30 vehicles.
• A poll will be created at least every three days, based on the next car on the list. No more than one poll per day will be posted.
• The poll will be left open for three days allowing member to vote on the four levels of coolness. In order to prevent fighting, poll results will be anonymous.
• The level that gets the most votes is what the vehicle is determined to be.
• If the car gets extraordinary results for any option, it will be placed in a special category.

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Currently Being Polled

• 1955-1975 Citroen DS suggested by Danny (Ends January 5th).
• 1999-2006 Toyota Celica GTS / ZR suggested by jacoja09 (Ends January 7th).
• 1972-1978 Lamborghini Espada S3 suggested by Leonidae (Ends January 9th).
• 1988-1990 Lancia Thema 8.32 suggested by GM (Ends January 12th).
• 1919-1925 Leyat Helica suggested by Grand Prix (Ends January 14th).
• 1992-1993 GMC Typhoon suggested by Joey D (Ends January 15th).
• 1984-1988 Pontiac Fiero suggested by Toronado (Ends January 18th).
• 2006-2010 BMW M5 E60 suggested by Codename L (Ends February 4th).
• 1956-1958 Studebaker Hawk suggested by Jim Prower
• 1991-1996 Subaru Alcyone SVX suggested by SVX

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Nomination List

1. 1982-1993 Mercedes-Benz 190 W201 suggested by homeforsummer
2. 1989-1994 Nissan Skyline GT-R suggested by Murcie_LP640
3. 2008-Present Subaru Impreza WRX STI GE suggested by Irons
4. 1956 Mercedes-Benz SLR Uhlenhaut Coupé suggested by NISM0_SKYLINE
5. 1971-1972 Ford Falcon GT-HO Phase III suggested by mafia_boy
6. 1998-2003 Ford Escort ZX2 suggested by ty00123
7. 1995-1998 Volkswagen Golf GTi Mk. III suggested by socomplayer2
8. 1969-1973 Datsun 510/Nissan Bluebird 1600 suggested by Leadfoot53
9. 1990-1991 Oldsmobile Cutlass Calais Quad 442 W-41 suggested by Jetboy.
10. 1993-1995 Jeep Grand Cherokee ZJ suggested by LSX
11. 1991-1994 Porsche 964 Turbo suggested by Frankinsten
12. 1990-1994 Nissan Pulsar GTI-R suggested by PureAwesomeness
13. 1999 Mitsubishi Lancer Evolution VI GSR suggested by slidesquad#1
14. 1962-1965 Peel P50 suggested by TheStig13
15. 1965-1967 Shelby Cobra 427 suggested by race'emhard
16. 2005-Present Toyota Century suggested by Shant J.
17. 1986-1993 Lamborghini LM002 suggested by 80Y 2C2
18. 1938 Napier Mobil Special suggested by Balocco
19. 1982-1986 Toyota Celica Supra MkII suggested by JCE
20. 1981-1985 Volvo 240 Estate Turbo suggested by Strittan
21. 1994 Dauer 962 Le Mans suggested by Stevisiov
22. 1996-2001 Ferrari 550 suggested by Pitracer100

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The GTP Cool Wall is not in association with SVX's "GT4 Cool Wall", please refer all comments on that subject to GTP's GT4 Cool Wall. Please try to keep non-nominations related discussion to a minimum in order to more easily sort through future nominations.


Thanks to Joey and SweetShopUnion for being the former proprieters of the GTP Cool Wall, and a big thanks to Joey for establishing the clear rules and standards currently in place.

 

[Tornado]

As you folks may have noticed, we are under 10 nominations in the queue at the moment. Keep in mind that I don't plan on doing any polls from the 24th to the 1st. Now, my plan was to run it out completely by Christmas Eve and then fill it up to 30, with polls starting again on January 2nd. Any criticisms, concerns or opinions?

 

[Jim Prower]

see elsewhere.

 

[TheCracker]

That sounds like a good idea.

I'd like to see a return to the public polls that allow us to troll see who's voted for what, instead of the anonymous ones we have at the moment. It mostly stops folks voting one way or the other just to be different without having to explain themselves.

I'd also prefer to see racing cars banned from being nominated. They're irrelevant to the original concept of the cool wall, and to be honest, irrelevant to the Cars in General threads as a whole.

 

[Jim Prower]

I'd like to respectfully disagree with both opinions, especially as most cars can become competition vehicles with some work, and the definition of a "Competition Vehicle" can become vague: rally cars are competition vehicles that are fully road legal, as are many trackday cars. The differences between a roadgoing Ultima and a racing one are almost nil.

As well, I think it better not to "Single out" any members who may or may not have an unpopular opinion. That sort of thing leads to lynching, especially on a heated topic of debate.

I've looked into the Top Gear version of the Cool Wall, and I find I disagree with pretty much every rule they set forth for it.

 

[Joey D]

People deserve to be called out if they are doing it to go against the grain for no reason. It's not being funny and it defeats the point of the wall.

I think as part of the rule, it should be stated that you are strongly recommend to give a reason why you voted the way you did.

 

[Jim Prower]

I retract my previous comment in this post. Instead, I reccommend that, if you feel "Corrective" action is needed for a certain member, you do this over PM instead of making an ass of him in public.

 

[Joey D]

Sometimes people need to made an example so they quit doing what they are doing. If 99 out of a hundred people vote something X and one person votes Y to be cute or funny then that is annoying. This is one of the reasons I gave up the cool wall, some members didn't take it as anything more then a joke. I'm not saying we are doing hardcore scientific research here, but it's nice to have people act somewhat on the serious side.

 

[TheCracker]

I'd like to respectfully disagree with both opinions, especially as most cars can become competition vehicles with some work, and the definition of a "Competition Vehicle" can become vague: rally cars are competition vehicles that are fully road legal, as are many trackday cars.

The point is that we are voting for a particular spec of car, usually, like a Lancia Thema 8.32 or a VW Phaeton 6.0 W12 LWB. We are judging them on this specification, not on whether they make a good trackday car when you do an engine swap on them and rip out the interior, or whether they look cool once you slam them to the floor and add a set of Ronal Turbos to them.

A race car can't be judged by the same reasoning as you would a road car for the simple reason that they are built for completely different purposes. It's like judging how good of a TV a microwave oven is. They may look remotely similar, but they do totally different jobs.

The differences between a roadgoing Ultima and a racing one are almost nil.

The difference is that one of them is a tool for winning races, whilst the other is a form of transport available to the general public to suit whatever purpose they see fit to do with it, be that track days (which are a totally different concept to circuit racing) or just dropping the kids off at school and fetching the weekly shop.

 

[Jim Prower]

Sometimes people need to made an example so they quit doing what they are doing. If 99 out of a hundred people vote something X and one person votes Y to be cute or funny then that is annoying. This is one of the reasons I gave up the cool wall, some members didn't take it as anything more then a joke. I'm not saying we are doing hardcore scientific research here, but it's nice to have people act somewhat on the serious side.

So, you pick out two or three people for being funny? and you people called me touchy.

Look, people are going to try to do that because you get mad. They think it's funny when you go off on your tirade. It's the most basic form of trolling: do something that's guaranteed to piss someone off, and let them get mad at you so you can laugh at how petty they're being. I'm not saying it's right, but calling them out's certainly not going to do anything about it...in fact, it may make it worse. They now know they've succeeded, and, not only that, they're now getting attention for it. They can go to their message board buddies and say "Hey, look what I did, total flame war."

The best way to solve this is to (a) ignore them, and (b) stop taking this so seriously. If someone starts blatantly trolling, (as in "I M GOD MY OPINION IZ ONLY ONE THAT COUNTZ") report them. You're not the Staff, it's not your job to make them look stupid. Let warnings and bans do that.

The point is that we are voting for a particular spec of car, usually, like a Lancia Thema 8.32 or a VW Phaeton 6.0 W12 LWB. We are judging them on this specification, not on whether they make a good trackday car when you do an engine swap on them and rip out the interior, or whether they look cool once you slam them to the floor and add a set of Ronal Turbos to them.

and yet, people will, because some feel that that's what makes a car cool. in fact, people have used modification as a criteria to make a car UN-cool. So we can say a car's cool if it's not modified, but we can say it's uncool if it is? That makes very little sense to me.

A race car can't be judged by the same reasoning as you would a road car for the simple reason that they are built for completely different purposes. It's like judging how good of a TV a microwave oven is. They may look remotely similar, but they do totally different jobs.

The difference is that one of them is a tool for winning races, whilst the other is a form of transport available to the general public to suit whatever purpose they see fit to do with it, be that track days (which are a totally different concept to circuit racing) or just dropping the kids off at school and fetching the weekly shop.

I still don't get it. It still is a land-based vehicle, has four wheels, a method of moving itself, some sort of chassis that doesn't rely on rails or external methods to guide it, and a passenger compartment, even for a single passenger. To me, that's all it takes. It's a car. Thus, as a car, it may be determined cool or uncool. Competition or not...with headlights and Numberplates, even an early Bugatti Grand Prix racer is street legal, and can be driven around town for whatever reason, yet it was constructed specifically for auto racing. Many early Le Mans cars, as well. Where is the line drawn?

 

[Famine]

I'd like to respectfully disagree with both opinions, especially as most cars can become competition vehicles with some work, and the definition of a "Competition Vehicle" can become vague: rally cars are competition vehicles that are fully road legal, as are many trackday cars. The differences between a roadgoing Ultima and a racing one are almost nil.

What about the differences between a roadgoing Audi R10 and a racing one?

This is why race cars should be excluded. If an exception can be made it's for racing cars which are based upon road cars.

 

[Jim Prower]

Again, I don't see the point. It's a car. Why should the purpose for which it was built determine if people can have an opinion whether it's cool or not? Honor me with a decent answer, here.

What I'm hearing right now is "Race cars can't be eligible because they're race cars." What I don't understand is why this should matter.

 

[Famine]

Again, I don't see the point. It's a car. Why should the purpose for which it was built determine if people can have an opinion whether it's cool or not? Honor me with a decent answer, here.

What I'm hearing right now is "Race cars can't be eligible because they're race cars." What I don't understand is why this should matter.

Race cars cannot be judged by the same criteria for "cool" as road cars are. This introduces inconsistencies into the Cool Wall.

 

[Tornado]

I'd like to see a return to the public polls that allow us to troll see who's voted for what, instead of the anonymous ones we have at the moment. It mostly stops folks voting one way or the other just to be different without having to explain themselves.

I pulled it because it caused so much drama, even when people who weren't trolling were being yelled at. I'll do a poll when nominations are open to gauge opinion, though.

I'd also prefer to see racing cars banned from being nominated. They're irrelevant to the original concept of the cool wall, and to be honest, irrelevant to the Cars in General threads as a whole.

I dunno. I understand where you and Famine are coming from, but I'm not sure. I'll have to mull it over.

 

[homeforsummer]

What I'm hearing right now is "Race cars can't be eligible because they're race cars." What I don't understand is why this should matter.

Race cars are very different to road cars, that's why. Race cars are cool or uncool in an entirely different way from road cars, they're judged on things like results, history and David vs. Goliath criteria rather than a model-for-model basis (EDIT: Tree'd by Famine). There's no correlation between them and the way people vote on road cars. I think Lada's WTCC car is the coolest car on the grid but I think the equivalent road car is about as cool as a colostomy bag. At the same time, take that racing Lada and put it on the streets and everyone would think you're a knob/chav/both because it's stupidly loud and has a massive wing on the back.

The whole thing would be simpler if it was road cars only. Hell, it's not like there aren't enough road cars to go around... would people really care that much if race cars weren't allowed?...

I've no interest in voting on race cars, personally. If someone wants to start a "coolest race cars ever" poll in the Motorsport section then go for it. All other motorsport-themed discussion is kept there so why not polls on race cars?

I'd like to add that I preferred when we could see who voted in what category. I've noticed Toronado doesn't tick this option like Joey did when he ran it. Fair enough, it means that people can get called out if they've made a particular vote, but then that just gives people a chance to explain themselves rather than hiding behind an anonymous vote. (EDIT: I see you've now covered this point) I don't care why someone has voted a certain way as long as they explain themselves. Hell, maybe they've got a great story as to why they voted that way, rather than just doing it because they're a prat...

 

[Jim Prower]

Race cars cannot be judged by the same criteria for "cool" as road cars are. This introduces inconsistencies into the Cool Wall.

Well, the hitch there is that, as I see it, many people already aren't very consistent with the way they judge "Cool," or "Uncool." I know I'm not. I usually go "Cool" if the car's notable, I like the car or concept behind it, and it's not liked by people I strongly dislike or people I'm having disagreements with at the time. I also consider if news of the car or enthusiasm thereof has been shoved down my throat recently. I'll even sometimes try and vote a certain way because I think it's under- or over-rated by the community at large.

The fact is, if everyone voted and thought the same way, our wall would look exactly the same as the one Jeremy Clarkson has.

 

[Tornado]

Fair enough, it means that people can get called out if they've made a particular vote, but then that just gives people a chance to explain themselves rather than hiding behind an anonymous vote. (EDIT: I see you've now covered this point) I don't care why someone has voted a certain way as long as they explain themselves.

I will say that I would actually prefer that the results be viewable so as to increase discussion.
What I cannot stand, however, and the ultimate reason that I edited the rules and turned anonymous voting on in the first place, was when people would be called out for their votes by someone, would explain their reasoning for why they voted "x," and then have that same someone who called them out then proceed to tear the voter apart over it and ultimately derail the thread (and multiple people have done it since the GTP Cool Wall was started, including myself, so no one go assuming that I'm referring to anybody in particular).
That being said, the changing of the rules was a personal choice, and if people want it back I will bring it back.

 

[Jetboy.]

Well, the hitch there is that, as I see it, many people already aren't very consistent with the way they judge "Cool," or "Uncool." I know I'm not. I usually go "Cool" if the car's notable, I like the car or concept behind it, and it's not liked by people I strongly dislike or people I'm having disagreements with at the time. I also consider if news of the car or enthusiasm thereof has been shoved down my throat recently. I'll even sometimes try and vote a certain way because I think it's under- or over-rated by the community at large.

The fact is, if everyone voted and thought the same way, our wall would look exactly the same as the one Jeremy Clarkson has.

Same thoughts here. My applications of "cool" or "not" stem from a whole other rationale, either between history, technological advancements made for/from it, how advanced for the time, sheer performance, looks, practicality... And I grade accordingly. I got into an argument with someone because I didn't adhere to what was "correctly" cool, which is apparently going by what complete yabbos drive it. I don't care who drives it because the car didn't ask to be driven by them. As I said to him, you might as well ask a mother why she gave birth to a defective baby. I grade cars, not the people who drive them. Does this make me truly wrong in my assessment?


Also, if were going to make it stick with the racers, why not call this the "GTP Street Car Cool Wall" then.


Cheers,
Jetboy

 

[Jim Prower]

I will say that I would actually prefer that the results be viewable so as to increase discussion.
What I cannot stand, however, and the ultimate reason that I edited the rules and turned anonymous voting on in the first place, was when people would be called out for their votes by someone, would explain their reasoning for why they voted "x," and then have that same someone who called them out then proceed to tear the voter apart over it and ultimately derail the thread (and multiple people have done it since the GTP Cool Wall was started, including myself, so no one go assuming that I'm referring to anybody in particular).
That being said, the changing of the rules was a personal choice, and if people want it back I will bring it back.

and that's what I'm afraid of, too. We seem to have a penchant for starting flame wars here.

Maybe we should go ahead and let people look, but if people start dragging others into the open to "humiliate" them, posts will be reported.

 

[Famine]

Well, the hitch there is that, as I see it, many people already aren't very consistent with the way they judge "Cool," or "Uncool." I know I'm not.

And that's fine. Individual inconsistency is ironed out by multiple responses to the survey.

Race cars require everyone to abandon a set of criteria and adopt a new set, introducing a mass inconsistency.

 

[Ardius]

As much as I'd love to debate the coolness of various race cars, I don't think they work very well in this sense, very rarely is there any race car that isn't going to be voted cool, the wall is going to end up even more top heavy than it is already.
Maybe also change it from polling every nominated car to the organiser picking and choosing in the same way as Top Gear does. This again stops it becoming too one sided, as most people are going to be using their nomination for a car they think is cool and usually it is. This would require more work from the organiser though.

But otherwise, generally speaking it works well as it is.

 

[Jim Prower]

Maybe also change it from polling every nominated car to the organiser picking and choosing in the same way as Top Gear does. This again stops it becoming too one sided, as most people are going to be using their nomination for a car they think is cool and usually it is. This would require more work from the organiser though.

But otherwise, generally speaking it works well as it is.

Absolutely not. I have nothing against Toronado, but having one person filter through the nominations closes in on censorship.

I dont' get the race car thing, but it seems I'm outnumbered. I don't see why consistency matters if the results are the same...

 

[Ardius]

Absolutely not. I have nothing against Toronado, but having one person filter through the nominations closes in on censorship.

I dont' get the race car thing, but it seems I'm outnumbered. I don't see why consistency matters if the results are the same...

Censorship? What? Thats a bit extreme. Censorship is not allowing things, this is just picking a measured amount of each possibility of coolness. I didn't suggest he shouldn't use the nominations later, just that there should be some way of limiting the amount of obviously cool cars being voted in at once.
Though granted its difficult for one person to decide what will end up as uncool and what won't.

Its just the cool wall is becoming rather pointless when there are several Ferrari's, race cars and that kind of thing nominated and quickly get voted cool.

Censorship is deciding what people should and shouldn't see, thats quite a bit different from deciding which order cars get polled..

 

[Tornado]

Absolutely not. I have nothing against Toronado, but having one person filter through the nominations closes in on censorship

I agree with this. The only way it would be remotely fair is if we put the cars to be polled to a poll, which would be more trouble than it is worth and almost certainly wouldn't accomplish anything but discontent with people who made the nominations in the first place.

Censorship? What? Thats a bit extreme. Censorship is not allowing things, this is just picking a measured amount of each possibility of coolness.

It is still censorship, though. Who am I to disallow a nomination, even temporarily, because I think it might be too cool.
I agree with your point about the clutter on the Cool end of the spectrum, but that problem is inherent with the voting system. The only way to get around it is if people would stop nominating cars that they assume would be cool and instead nominated cars that they like or own, which has been happening recently anyways.

 

[socomplayer2]

removed at request of tornado

 

[Ardius]

It is still censorship, though. Who am I to disallow a nomination, even temporarily, because I think it might be too cool.
I agree with your point about the clutter on the Cool end of the spectrum, but that problem is inherent with the voting system. The only way to get around it is if people would stop nominating cars that they assume would be cool and instead nominated cars that they like or own, which has been happening recently anyways.

If thats the case, censorship is already happening by the fact you do not allow certain nominations.
But whatever, it was merely a suggestion, I'm not demanding you do it.

 

[Leadfoot53]

One car I feel deserves to be on the wall is the:

1969-1973 Datsun 510 (Nissan Bluebird 1600) 2 -door sedan
96 HP 1600cc SOHC Inline 4 Engine
Top Speed 98 MPH
3 Speed Automatic or 4 Speed Manual
Front Brakes: Solid Disk
Rear Brakes: Drum
Front Shocks: struts, coil springs, anti-roll bar
Rear Shocks: semi-trailing arms, coil springs (One of the first cars to feature IRS)
Dimensions: L: 160.2 in, W: 61.4 in, H: 55.1 in
Weight: 2125 lbs

Pros: Small, quick acceleration. Easily modifiable, parts interchangable with 240Zs. Can be considered a sleeper in many kinds of races.

Cons: Have been known to have some electrical problems. Can rust easily.


Was the car first used by Paul Newman in his racing career

Info of car: http://www.motortrend.com/classic/roadtests/C12_0606_1973_datsun_510/specs_pricing.html

 

[mafia_boy]

FORD Falcon [XY] GT-HO Phase III

Engine: Cleveland 351 V8
Position: Front Longitudinal
Aspiration: Natural
Valvetrain: Pushrod OHV
Fuel feed: Holley 780CFM 4-Barrel Downdraught Carburettor
Displacement: 5752 cc / 351 in³
Bore: 102 mm / 4.02 in
Stroke: 89 mm / 3.5 in
Compression: 11.5:1
Power: 275.9 kw / 370 bhp @ 5400 rpm
Specific output: 64.33 bhp per litre
Bhp/weight: 242.78 bhp per tonne
Torque: 515.21 nm / 380 ft lbs @ 3400 rpm
Driven wheels: RWD w/LSD
Front tires: ER70H14 radials
Rear tires: ER70H14 radials
Front brakes: Vented Discs w/Servo Assist
Rear brakes: Drums w/Servo Assist
Front wheels: F 35.6 x 15.2 cm / 14 x 6 in
Rear wheels: R 35.6 x 15.2 cm / 14 x 6 in
Front suspension: Wishbones w/Spring over Strut-Type Dampers, Anti Roll Bar
Rear suspension: Live Axle w/Semi-Elliptic Springs, Telescopic Shock Absorbers
Weight: 1524 kg / 3360 lbs
Wheelbase: 2819 mm / 111.0 in
Front track: 1499 mm / 59.0 in
Rear track: 1486 mm / 58.5 in
Length: 4689 mm / 184.6 in
Width: 1875 mm / 73.8 in
Height: 1389 mm / 54.7 in
Transmission: 4-Speed Manual
Gear ratios: 2.78:1, 1.93:1, 1.36:1, 1.00:1
Final drive: 3.50:1
Top speed: 228.5 kph / 142.0 mph
0 - 60 mph: 6.4 seconds​

 

[Joey D]

Nominations aren't being accepted till the 26th of December.

 

[mafia_boy]

Bit of premature action by myself.......my bad.