GTP Cool Wall: Thoughts and Propositions

[BKGlover]

I have been thinking quite a bit lately...

What?

OK, so only a bit has been about the Cool Wall, now would you stop giving me THAT look?

Anywho, I have either been thinking or trying to think about additions, possible subtractions, and maybe throwing in a few useless bits for giggles.

So, here's the rundown for this thread:​

Item #1: Defining "car" for our uses-
I tried, effing hell did I try, but in the end all I had was a splitting headache, magnified by GRID 2, and a whole lotta nothing, as I said in the Nominations...

@Roger: I've spent the last week trying to give you an answer for the definition of 'car'. Problem is, I can't give you a concrete definition. All I can tell you is that I go by what has generally been accepted as and/or been referred to as a car. Cars, trucks, SUVs, vans, stuff you could walk onto a car lot and drive off in without much fuss. Good? No, but I've got less than nothing here.

Now for those who hadn't seen it, Roger the Horse was asking about Motorcycles and Tractors/Lorries being nominated in theory.


Item #2: By Popular Demand-
I've been thinking about this since the Coachbuild ordeal. Right now, Race cars are allowed(some wish the not be), Concepts are allowed(same), and while Coachbuilds are allowed, modifieds are not and it's all gray-area. I can live with the rules, as right now most produced cars on the face of the earth qualify, but what about this:

-Rules changed to mass production, street legal, unmodified, and readily available(when made).

-New option for nomination by popular demand. Essentially petitioning for a spot on the wall with no exceptions at all. You could, in theory, nominate you're car, but you would have to rally support before it was added to the nomination pool.

.....Why, now that it's in print, does this sound absurdly idiotic to me?


Item #3: Polling rate-
Let me lay this out simply, I am NOT going to become enslaved to this. That said I am doing some extra stuff regarding the wall, but I can deal with 3 polls a week. I might be able to handle more if necessary, obviously less is fine, but how about le voters?


Item #4: Stats and other BS-
Like I said, I am doing some indirect stuff with Cool Wall, specifically with the voting. It has been complicated by a few nitpicks, but generally is just a timesink for the hell of it. What I want to know is do you WANT the extra at all, and if yes what bits?


No poll YET for this one. Thought it better for this one to get actual responses than a few useless mouse-clicks.

 

[TheBook]

Item 1: Define "car" as a four-wheeled vehicle used generally for commuting or competition. This includes coachbuilds (as they were usually made to go from point A to B, albeit with a large "look at me" factor) and race cars, but excludes motorcycles and heavy-duty lorries/farm equipment/etc., as their use is usually limited to transport of goods and not commuting.

Item 2: Change the rules if you wish, but allow all nominations still in the list to go through still. How would you set up the "popular demand" spot, though? Good idea, I'm just curious as to the details.

Item 3: Three polls a week is fine. With the backlog that you have (and speaking from experience), two in a week really isn't enough.

Item 4: I can't think of much of anything else to change, to be honest.

 

[NotThePrez]

1) I think "car" could described as a four-wheeled vehicle with some kind of power source and is mainly used on roads. Racing cars are the same, but were/are normally used on tracks for competition rather than public roads.

2) Personally, I'm not too crazy about the "popular demand" idea. I like it how it is now where a car is nominated and just enters the que if it hasn't already been done. It keeps things tidy and we all know what car will be talked about next. If you're talking about classic coachbuilt cars, I think that should be allowed, because that was how some cars were made for a little while. Custom one-offs I really can't comment on.

3) I think that 3 pools a week is just fine.

4) Mmmm, as long as there's enough to get a grasp of the basic characteristics of each car, I can't complain (sorry if that's not a very good answer).

 

[Badasp5.0]

1 . Think a "car" should be not defined by four wheels but like "The Book" states for commuting and transporting people not goods. With that being said I don't think motorcycles should be allowed. If Bikes want a cool wall there is a subform for that.

2.I say nay to the "popular demand" idea for the same reasons above.

3. 3 pools a week is fine as long as its not to much work for BK.

4.The stats seem to be set up just fine no changes needed IMHO.

 

[Wolfe]

1. Maybe it would be simpler to stick to defining what isn't a car (ie. not a motorcycle, not commercial equipment), rather than coming up with a straight definition that lassos in the "right" vehicles without including the "wrong" ones.
2. Cut the word "mass" from "production" and I'd dig that ruleset. I could see the "popular demand" category being used for things like specific movie cars, people might like that.
3. The current rate is fine.
4. The person who nominates a car tends to add whatever they feel is important/relevant. The links you've been adding to the appropriate Wikipedia page are fine by me. 👍

 

[BKGlover]

#1- It's a good base, but it's about as far as I got. Busses came to mind almost immediately.

#2- The current Nominations would go through. The thought would be use road legal street cars actively, no more gray-area like coachbuilds, race cars, or concepts, but because they do exist and they do have a presence, those who want to nominate them would have to basically campaign for inclusion, which would be dependent on a YES/NO approval public vote reaching a set YES mark. Wow, as I type it out it sounds more and more like the US Government. That alone may nix it.

#3- Cool. Feel free to say more or less, though. I can handle opinions(most of the time).

#4- *sigh* I appear to have failed in explaining the point of this one(YET A-🤬-GAIN). I'm not talking about the 'Stats that Matter' as I have been calling them. No, these are stats pertaining to us, the voters and the voting history. Examples: Most total votes, fewest Cool Votes, First voter to use all options. You know, miscellaneous crap that has no bearing on the ACTUAL polls or Wall.

 

[Crash]

1. Honestly, I think it's fine as it is right now. When an issue comes up, deal with them then. I think if you explain yourself and you're fair about it, it'll be fine. The thing is there will always be exceptions to the rule, and it will be impossible to define what cars are eligible without specifically listing out every single car that would be eligible for the cool wall.

2. How do you define mass production and readily available? This will likely exclude all hypercars from the cool wall, then. Also, I fear that popular vote/demand will end up being a... popularity contest, with a lot of arguments and strife cluttering up the nominations thread. I vote against this idea (Ha! See what I did there?).

3. 3 polls per week is fine.

4. I think some additional stats would be cool, though they are by no means necessary. You may choose to do so if you wish. If you just keep an Excel spreadsheet going and use equations, all the extra statistics should be pretty simple to calculate and keep track of.

 

[BKGlover]

2. How do you define mass production and readily available? This will likely exclude all hypercars from the cool wall, then. Also, I fear that popular vote/demand will end up being a... popularity contest, with a lot of arguments and strife cluttering up the nominations thread. I vote against this idea (Ha! See what I did there?).

4. I think some additional stats would be cool, though they are by no means necessary. You may choose to do so if you wish. If you just keep an Excel spreadsheet going and use equations, all the extra statistics should be pretty simple to calculate and keep track of.

#2. I see, I see! Mass probably would be too limiting, but readily available would be for the FXX, things you CAN buy, but can only USE if conditions meet the maker's ideal settings. Even the Veyron can be used as a driver(by a very mad being, but still).

#4. If it wasn't for Excel, I probably wouldn't have even tried to pick this up, much less change anything.

 

[Slash]

To be honest, I think anything with wheels and an engine should be allowed for vote on the cool wall. It would make things a lot more interesting.

 

[Tornado]

To be frank, the Cool Wall as it is now (especially with the formula used to determine standings rather than actual votes heavily skewing all of the results towards the center) is so far removed from the initial idea already that if you were to start putting commercial equipment and motorcycles in or determine nominations by popular vote the whole thing might as well be dropped.

 

[Adamgp]

To be honest, I think anything with wheels and an engine should be allowed for vote on the cool wall. It would make things a lot more interesting.

x2

 

[Slash]

To be frank, the Cool Wall as it is now (especially with the formula used to determine standings rather than actual votes heavily skewing all of the results towards the center) is so far removed from the initial idea already that if you were to start putting commercial equipment and motorcycles in or determine nominations by popular vote the whole thing might as well be dropped.

Drop it then. I'm not the only one who wouldn't mind seeing it opened up and expanding. If anything, it'd make it better.

 

[Joey D]

I can tell you right now pretty much anything that isn't a car is going to be uncool or lower. I mean, come on, really how cool is a semi truck? Not very.

 

[Tornado]

Drop it then.

Whoosh.

I'm not the only one who wouldn't mind seeing it opened up and expanding. If anything, it'd make it better.

You mean like how adding a new option completely at odds with the entire concept, so now people can take part without actually having any opinion whatsoever, did? Or how changing everything to a mathematical formula, so now the entire thing has turned into "The GTP Meh Wall", did? Tens of thousands of cars released since the dawn of the automobile age. I think we can get by without adding the ability to vote on forklifts and lawnmowers.

 

[Roger the Horse]

I say keep it as it is. Whether or not a car can be included ultimately should be down to BK's discretion, assuming BK doesn't go mad and try to claim cars built in Poland don't count or something odd like that.

I also think that the correct rate of polls per week is as many as BK wants to do, but it should preferably be at least 3, simply due to the size of the backlog we currently have.

I really don't see what people are on about this whole GTP 'meh' wall thing. At the end of the day, deciding what goes where by anything other than taking the average of all the votes isn't really a fair way to decide. Another fact that has to be remembered is that the majority of cars are, well, about average, and will show up as such in the final results. Something like the Porsche 917 we had a while back is going to average out as being very, very cool indeed, as that is the view of most people of said vehicle. Something like a Ford Focus RS, however cool or uncool some consider it to be, is going to wind up with half the people thinking it's cool, and half of them thinking it isn't, so of course it's going to come out as an overall 'meh'

If you want a wall without a large number of the cars on it being 'meh', then start another wall that only allows Aston Martins and 1980s Hyundais. Otherwise, just face up to facts.

 

[Tornado]

I really don't see what people are on about this whole GTP 'meh' wall thing.

Because by very design it causes extreme shifts towards the center "Meh" option and cancels out cars that do have obvious trends in voting patterns (meaning when over 40% of the voting, and in some cases even nearly 50% or more, places them in a specific area, and they end up in a completely different one anyway) making the whole exercise pointless.

Fairly straightforward.

At the end of the day, deciding what goes where by anything other than taking the average of all the votes isn't really a fair way to decide.

You mean the event styled after a real one where a guy determined how cool a car is by sticking it up on the wall too high for the other guy to reach it isn't 100% fair?

Another fact that has to be remembered is that the majority of cars are, well, about average, and will show up as such in the final results.

You know, if a car's lasting legacy is that it doesn't stand out at all, one would think that would mean it isn't cool. And all the "meh" option does is allow people to express an opinion without actually expressing an opinion, just like on all surveys with a middle option. Except "meh" would mean similarly mean that something isn't cool enough to have an opinion about.

 

[Roger the Horse]

Look, the cool wall is working fine how it is, and it's a stupid thing to argue about, and changing it will just cause yet more arguments because, at the end of the day, you can't please all of the people all of the time; so let's just leave it how it is and accept that at the end of the day, it's just a bit of fun, and it can't be perfect, but it can be fun, as long as we don't allow ourselves to get angry over such minor things as we do.

 

[BKGlover]

You know, I thought this would be a good idea to resurrect. Of course, I ALSO thought that giving everyone a say would be a good idea.

Nominations are closed for now, and I may change the rules, I may just put it back in the ground. I don't know now.

9/21: I need one really good reason to not shut this down. Someone want's it, let me know, but otherwise the plan is to clean out the queue.