GTP_WRS Week 11 : Official Results

[GTP_RaceRyder]

Loosy Goosey, but I made it.

 

[millross]

My PAL replay.

DS3 : TCS 3, ABS 2, Controller Sensitivity -1

GTP_eclipsi - crikey, you thrashed that round - loads of smoke and lit-up tyres, ultra fast though - I could see how you used the slides to position the car well. Clean!

 

[Stotty]

My replay...

View attachment GTP_Stotty WRS Week 11.zip

 

[Vagabond]

Caught it earlier on the Tube site. You make it look so easy! I put your tips to use, and in a short period of time before the deadline, was able to knock off one of those "chunks of time" you referred to.

Thanks Dan - believe me it doesn't feel easy. Though that lap had that slightly magical feeling in T2 and T4.... Glad you're making progress mate - feels good when it all starts to come together. 👍

My new GT3 RS v2 has arrived and I tidied the Den and set it up. Only done a few laps so far but the difference between it and the G25 is profound. I'm using my G25 pedals so no difference there but the with the size of the GT3 (much larger than the G25) and its super smooth FFB, the experience is very different. I'm currently about 1.5 seconds off my "average" pace (only tried it on this combo so far since that's what I've been running all week) but I expect that will improve dramatically as I get used to it.

It smells like a new car and that Alcantra suede - mmmm, comfy.

 

[BloodiMayhem]

GT3 RS v2 has arrived . . . . .

NICE Chris, I am very jelous!
I tried to get a Fanatec wheel but the shipping costs and wait times here in Oz killed it for me.
EAGERLY awaiting my G27's arrival for what i expect there will be a certain amount of "training wheels on" time from DS3 to FFB Wheel.
CAN'T WAIT!!!

Cheers All !!!

 

[Usual Suspect]

My replay:

 

[chukabilly]

GTP_Chuk, you are the single most crazy SOB i've ever seen, that is an insane amount of time and laps... you must have done near 1000 laps! Great splits and great time though mate, the effort paid off!

That first part might just be true!!! And yes, when you throw in the additional testing in the other cars, it was 1,000 laps easy. But I didn't get that lap time until the last session before work, so I needed every one of those laps. I tend to get into the habit of running laps in a leisurely pace, forgetting to try to go faster, especially on a tuned car. I can literally just drive for hours. I missed my goal of a top ten overall, though, so I do regret taking two days off. Life happens. I'm still glad to have done well by my standards, and proud to have scored a division win!(And I beat Jake!)
My home computer should be back up tomorrow, and I'll post my replay then. Thanks for the support. I don't think you have to worry about me catching you in the near future, though. You are insanely fast, whereas I'm just insane. Maybe someday.

Race On!

 

[Adrenaline]

332.9 miles for me, not quite as many as Chuk
ABS 1, Active Steering: Strong.

 

[bojangles]

Clean lap

GTP_UsualSuspect

 

[ASH32]

Here is my replay.

 

[Usual Suspect]

Clean lap

GTP_UsualSuspect

Thanks 👍

 

[eclipsee]

millross, thanks for checking. 👍

GTP_Insatiable clean lap.

Great lap mate 👍 , judging by your lap you don't need many advices but I think you should invest some money in a steering wheel, this way you would avoid to use the TCS that is killing your times, with a throttle pedal is easier to control the gas input than with a button.
If you don't have much money I'm sure a second hand DFGT would make the work pretty well.

 

[chukabilly]

Here's my replay. I can see where I lost speed in the first and the last sector. Obviously, I needed more seat time!! I used ABS on 1, that's it.

 

[Jake]

This was a great week, congrats to everyone for taking this on. I put about 400 miles on the #88 for this, after flailing with the #14. And damn, chuk, great effort. 👍

 

[jbrinkley0826]

here is my run. Congrats to all the podium winners!

 

[chukabilly]

Thanks Jake!!

 

[pyxen]

Loosy Goosey, but I made it.

GTP_RaceRyder clean! Nice lap, dude.

 

[millross]

millross, thanks for checking. 👍

GTP_Insatiable clean lap.

Great lap mate 👍 , judging by your lap you don't need many advices but I think you should invest some money in a steering wheel, this way you would avoid to use the TCS that is killing your times, with a throttle pedal is easier to control the gas input than with a button.
If you don't have much money I'm sure a second hand DFGT would make the work pretty well.

Cheers my friend :-)

I certainly do want a wheel. Ill get a g27 at some point but the Mrs wants various other things first!

 

[Carlos Fandango]

Cheers my friend :-)

... but the Mrs wants various other things first!

cue smutty inuendo from various WRS drivers


I'll get my coat... "Taxi for Carlos"

 

[millross]

cue smutty inuendo from various WRS drivers "

Haha yeah - I always welcome some innuendo

 

[sidplayos2]

Thanks Sid.

GTP_Sidplayos2

Enjoyed watching the lap and certainly picked up a couple of tips on lines (first corner in T2 and the hairpins). I noticed your rear inside wheel going red two or three times on the lap. Suggests that your accel value on your diff was too low. A side effect of this is also power on understeer which is why you were having to crank on a bunch of lock to get through the turns which lit your front tyres up. The front tyres also went red a couple of times on entry - in this case either you had too much front brake bias, or had the brake side of the diff too high.

The above is said with the greatest of respect, is only my $0.02 and in no way detracts from the fact that you whupped me this week

Thanks checking, and appreciate your input. With regards to tuning I am a complete n00b and probably going about things the wrong way. I find lowering the accel value help me to put the power down sooner, but as you mention I loose lots of traction out of corners. Perhaps I should concentrate more on correcting my heavy right foot. Like DDiamond says about the guys in D1's throttle control, I would also like to learn how to be more progressive but quick on the gas at the same time. It's like the D1 guys have a completely different resolution of granularity that they can call upon for precise throttle changes, but be able to put that power down sooner as well. Perhaps I am missing a particular tendon/muscle in my right foot

 

[Carlos Fandango]

I know exactly what you mean with regards the right foot resolution. Yes, lowering the accel will help you put the power down, but from the replay it was clear you went too far as the inside was spinning up. Increase it in steps of 2 until the outside rear lights up first, then back off by 1. That should maximise traction but you're right that it will the car more twicthy.

But hey, you beat me so what do I know

 

[Stotty]

It's like the D1 guys have a completely different resolution of granularity that they can call upon for precise throttle changes, but be able to put that power down sooner as well. Perhaps I am missing a particular tendon/muscle in my right foot

I'm no Ramon or Zoky, but here's my top tip on how to get faster...

I've read a few comments about how D1 drivers seem to be able to get on the power earlier and harder - which is clearly important, as your speed is almost all about how fast you can exit a corner, rather than how fast you are on entry.

The most important factor in being able to give the car more throttle is to minimise steering angle. Think of it this way... 'the amount of throttle I can use is inversely proportional to the amount of steering lock I have applied'. So minimising understeer once you're at the apex is absolutely key - both in your settings and in how you drive the car... the less your car is understeering, the harder you'll be able to get on the gas pedal... Even very powerful cars will take a surprisingly large amount of throttle if you're front tyres aren't slipping.

Assuming you manage to keep the understeer in check the next part is to find the sweet spot in the throttle travel and hit it consistently. If you watch replays of the fastest drivers, you'll see they are consistently able to hit almost, but not quite, full throttle... this is because even very powerful cars will most often take, say, 95% throttle on corner exits without losing traction.

So what you end up with is a balancing act... use corner entry to find the limit of front end grip and then try to sit right at that limit (but never beyond it) of the grip of the front tyres, enabling you to then use a lot of throttle on the way out.

 

[sidplayos2]

Increase it in steps of 2 until the outside rear lights up first, then back off by 1. That should maximise traction but you're right that it will the car more twicthy.

I'm going to try that Carlos, these are exactly the kind of things I have no idea about. What is your opinion about when the outside front lights up? It seems to be something I notice quite a bit, just going through the corner too fast perhaps?

But hey, you beat me so what do I know

A lot more than me when it comes to tuning that's for sure 👍
Looks like you might be up here soon with some pretty impressive results lately (including some podiums)!

I'm no Ramon or Zoky, but here's my top tip on how to get faster...

You're not far off from being abducted by the aliens though 👍

The most important factor in being able to give the car more throttle is to minimise steering angle.

This is what I find most difficult, I have been trying of late but really struggle to find that balance between being as straight as possible on exit not to overload the fronts, and getting through the corner/apex quickly. I have discovered from watching the fast replays that it is most important to finish the braking before the corner rather than while in the corner, and coming off the throttle and 'coasting' through the corner until just after mid apex. It has helped a little as the car doesn't 'push' as much as getting on too early and just pushing wide. I still do have the problem you mention though, sometimes on exit I don't 'trust' in myself and turn that little bit extra, after exit when I didn't go on the rumble strip I think .. 'I could have actually made that corner if I had kept the wheel straighter'.

This is why I joined WRS though, top input from everyone and open with suggstions. I just hope I can return the favour one day. I do intend to chase down you very fast D1 guys eventually though

 

[Stotty]

This is what I find most difficult, I have been trying of late but really struggle to find that balance between being as straight as possible on exit not to overload the fronts, and getting through the corner/apex quickly. I have discovered from watching the fast replays that it is most important to finish the braking before the corner rather than while in the corner, and coming off the throttle and 'coasting' through the corner until just after mid apex. It has helped a little as the car doesn't 'push' as much as getting on too early and just pushing wide. I still do have the problem you mention though, sometimes on exit I don't 'trust' in myself and turn that little bit extra, after exit when I didn't go on the rumble strip I think .. 'I could have actually made that corner if I had kept the wheel straighter'.

If you watch my most of my replays you'll see I'm most often braking well in to the corner (trail braking)... but bleeding off brake pressure progressively as I get closer to the apex. But generally yes, there is a period of coasting mid bend... this enables the car to settle 'neutrally', and in turn allows you to get back on the throttle harder.

There is a balance here though... you have to reduce your brake pressure as you're turning or you'll understeer, and understeer will always kill your speed as you either have to wait for the car to get back on line or the car will oversteer (if it's RWD) as soon as you get on the gas.

IMO, GT5 physics are inferior to GT5P and last years demo. I find it much harder in GT5 to sit right on the grip limit as the limit of grip is no where near as clearly defined as it was in the 2 previous version of the game. For me, the cars slide far too progressively in GT5 c.f. real life... almost feels like the car is permanently sliding, which doesn't replicate my real world experience of how cars handle.

 

[Carlos Fandango]

I'm going to try that Carlos, these are exactly the kind of things I have no idea about. What is your opinion about when the outside front lights up? It seems to be something I notice quite a bit, just going through the corner too fast perhaps?

Outside front lights up, like any other tyre, because of high load quite often due to excessive steering lock - what you need to understand is why the excessive lock is being applied in the first place! Could be any of the following, or a combination therein (depending on where you are in the corner)...

- Too much speed
- Incorrect line
- Too much front brake bias and/or not enough ABS
- Too high brake side diff (I had mine on 5)
- Too low accel side diff (I had mine on 18 I think)
- Excessive toe/camber adjustments
- Too soft at the front/hard at the rear (you'll need to study Stotty's thread to understand how that works in game)

Again, just my $0.02... My problem has always been applying the above in the heat of the moment

EDIT: I agree with Stotty (but he's obviously much better at applying it in game than me). The aim is to load and unload the tyres (at either end) progressively. If a tyre can generate 100 'grip units' in any given direction, then when directions are provided in combination i.e. cornering under braking or accelerating, the amount of grip units in any one direction reduces. For example, if you brake at the maximum, and then try and turn, the car is unwilling - this weeks Golf into the first hairpin is a good demonstration. Trail braking reduces the amount of 'grip units' used for braking so that the balance of available 'grip units' that the tyre can yield can be used to turn the car. Exiting a corner the same is true on the driven wheel, the less 'grip units' being used to generate sideways force, the more are available for tractive effort. The trick in all circumstances is to keep the value at 100.

Hope that makes sense - google 'grip circle' for a graphical demonstration of what I've said

 

[Stotty]

- Too high brake side diff (I had mine on 5)
- Too low accel side diff (I had mine on 18 I think)

Agree with the other reasons, but why do you think LSD affects front tyre loading under braking?

I thought LSD only affected the rear of the car, and then only the decel setting has any effect.

Generally, I will set decel to minimum as I want the rear to be as unstable as is manageable under braking... which makes the car turn better and hence reduces speed killing understeer.

 

[DDiamond]

Some NTSC checks.......visuals correct and all excellent runs!! 👍

GTP_Grinols -

GTP_CHUK -

GTP_Jake -

GTP_JBRINKLEY -

-

 

[Carlos Fandango]

Agree with the other reasons, but why do you think LSD affects front tyre loading under braking?

I thought LSD only affected the rear of the car, and then only the decel setting has any effect.

Generally, I will set decel to minimum as I want the rear to be as unstable as is manageable under braking... which makes the car turn better and hence reduces speed killing understeer.

You've just explained to yourself why LSD affects the front of the car, although I've missed a couple of key words which would have aided clarity. The LSD will have no effect when braking in a straight line on flat road, introduce road camber or steering lock and the LSD brake value affects the cars ability to yaw (rotate about it's own axis) and thus impacts front tyre load.

Increase brake angle to 50 with no other changes for a working example, although from what you've said I think you already understand this Stotty.

 

[Stotty]

Sorry, just re-read you post and I get it now

Reducing LSD decel reduces the load on the outside front tyre 👍