guide to creating a GT5 tune from scratch

[asdfg11]

Very easy to read and understand. I will be trying this out later. Could you personally write a bit about more about camber ? Also, chassis reinforcement - how does this change things ?

Great read, look forward for more.

 

[nomis3613]

What's a good track to tune on?

Hi, yeah Nurburgring is very popular. It has every type of corner known to man, but I reckon it is too long for testing tunes. IMHO you want a short track, so that you can run more laps quicker and judge how the setting has changed the car in a particular corner.

As for which track, I dunno! Whichever track you are best at, I guess. And I suppose a bumpy track is good for learning on, to teach you how to juggle handling and bump response.

Very easy to read and understand. I will be trying this out later. Could you personally write a bit about more about camber ? Also, chassis reinforcement - how does this change things ?

Great read, look forward for more.

Thanks.

Camber is a black art, speak to 10 people and you will get 10 different answers! To take into account people using different tyres, my method uses conservatively low angles, so if you are running racing tyres you can usually add up to a degree. Some basic points about camber
- more camber = more grip
- but you can go too far, often 3 degrees is too much. The grip will start decreasing and/or the handling will start feeling strange
- in theory, you want to run the tyres at their best camber angle. But sometimes you need to compromise in order to balance the under/oversteer. For example, if you can't tune out understeer using more normal methods, you could reduce the rear camber. This will bring the grip level of the rear tyres down closer to the grip of the front tyres, which will reduce understeer.

To go deeper into learning about camber, there's heaps of threads here. Including this one.

Hope this helps.

 

[scullyus]

Just managed to get 5 seconds off my time at deep forest. Having never used my own settings for a car, usually use RKM. This guide is great. thanks alot.

 

[Lambob]

Thank you, excellent read, concise.
in terms of gearing, you advise to set the final drive, to allow for top speed in the top gear.
does this mean, that I need to find a straight, long enough, safe enough, that will allow me to test for speeds in excess of 360km/hr? , in 6th or 7th gear? (albeit slower high end speed for mid class cars)

In terms of time needed to tune to 85% desireable results for overall tuning, how long would it take approx, of game time, to tune a car, overall, all steps combined?

do higher PP cars require more time to tune than lower PP cars?

 

[Highlandor]

Hi,

Really good to see someone putting something together like this - cool 👍

One element of 'tuning' that isn't currently covered but I feel would possibly help this thread would be tyre wear.

Some setups can help to increase tyre wear while other setups can help to reduce it and look after the tyres a bit better.

From experience of the race series I organise and particiapte in, this has especially been a problem with the front tyres on 4WD drive cars.

I know that someone's driving style and throttle control can be as much of a factor (if not more so) in this, but I wondered whether you would consider adding this to your guide??

Also, possibly, explain to people about the differences between setting up a car for an A spec race or for racing online, maybe?

For example, it's 'ok' to use free practice or actual A spec races to setup a car for A spec, but if the majority of the racing you're going to be doing is online, then maybe dong your setup work in an online lobby would be better??

Whilst setting up for online races, I find that doing practice race distance also helps as you get a feel for how the tyres will last throughout a race. It's possible to see if any setup changes have made the tyre wear worse or better.

It's just a personal opinion, I find that going for a balance between grip and tyre wear helps me as I'm able to run consistent laps throughout the race, rather than being fast in the first 1/3rd of the race and then slowling down in the last 1/3rd (and possibly more likely to make mistakes - costing time) as my tyres have little grip left.

Please do not take this as 'hijacking' your thread, I just felt that this infomation might be of benefit and would help to make your thread more informative.

Kind regards
H

 

[Basilea]

This is a great post! But just a question about the spring rates, in your case every car has a stiffer front then, no?

 

[Sm0k3:D]

Nice post.

There's a lot of methods in tunig. I use similars steps, but sometimes in a diferent order. For example, I like to work on brakes balance on the first step, while i'm still testing the feeling of the car in the default setup. And it works to me...
I think the key in tuning is having a method and follow steps in a organized way, and never try to correct more than one thing each time.
I liked your method. I think i will improve mine using some of yours advices. Thanks!

 

[watermelon punch]

Ahem... I don't see the anti-roll bar settings addressed there in the OP!

I use them lots. Tinkering with those settings are really helpful with some of my favourite types of cars, for me. I'd like more guidance, frankly, on when & where to address those settings.

Although I didn't 'discover' the ride height 'issue' I do seem to be the person who brough it to a wider audience.

I think the forum moderator brought it to a wider audience when he moved it from where it was hiding from the "madhouse", and put it in the tuning forum, where it belongs.

But that said, I agree that the topic is IRRELEVANT to this tuning thread, completely.

IMHO, this guide bypasses the pitfalls one can fall into by assuming too much. And I really think that's one of the bigger hurdles in getting the hang of tuning.

Great thread! Thank you very much to the OP!!!

 

[Highlandor]

IMHO, this guide bypasses the pitfalls one can fall into by assuming too much. And I really think that's one of the bigger hurdles in getting the hang of tuning.

Great thread! Thank you very much to the OP!!!

I agree 100% with this. Deal with what works for your driving style, your needs and the cars that you drive, tuned in your way. Have some general rules about setting up types of cars, but always remember, there's usually at least one exception to the 'rule', so be prepared everynow and then to possibly do something different if what normally works doesn't.

If it helps to stop / correct any unwanted oversteer or understeer, helps to improve tyre durability and lap times (aswell as meaning you can do more consistent laps, making your race time faster), or it helps to make a particular car more fun for you just to drive (free practice etc etc on your favourite tracks) - what more do you want.

People who play first player shoot 'em ups or sports games don't go on and on about comparing real life technical scenarios to a 'game'.

Keep it simple - it's a video game.

 

[nomis3613]

Scullyus: thanks heaps, glad it helped.

Thank you, excellent read, concise.
in terms of gearing, you advise to set the final drive, to allow for top speed in the top gear.
does this mean, that I need to find a straight, long enough, safe enough, that will allow me to test for speeds in excess of 360km/hr? , in 6th or 7th gear? (albeit slower high end speed for mid class cars)

You're welcome. What I meant was actually top speed for the given track (yes, I am one of those anally-retentive types who believes that a tune works properly only where it is designed , but I won't inflict you guys with such beliefs!) Anyways, as a "general purpose" setting, you'll find that 330km/h is enough for most tracks. And if your car is already wheelspinning in the lower gears with this final drive, then there's not much benefit making the gearing shorter for slower tracks.

In terms of time needed to tune to 85% desireable results for overall tuning, how long would it take approx, of game time, to tune a car, overall, all steps combined?

I reckon about 1/2 hour to get it in the right ballpark from scratch. Then you could spend days tweaking camber, ride height, dampers, etc to find that last 1%!

do higher PP cars require more time to tune than lower PP cars?

Not really. Cars with less tyre and more horsepower are harder (and I think more fun!) to tune.

One element of 'tuning' that isn't currently covered but I feel would possibly help this thread would be tyre wear.

Some setups can help to increase tyre wear while other setups can help to reduce it and look after the tyres a bit better.

Thanks.

Yeah, I haven't done much testing of tyre wear, that's why it's not included. So thankyou for sharing your thoughts.

Also, possibly, explain to people about the differences between setting up a car for an A spec race or for racing online, maybe?

Again, I'm not the best person to ask. But I think that after a recent patch you can now get the same settings as online.

A-Spec Free Run (under practice mode) is fine for A-Spec, except endurance races.

Please do not take this as 'hijacking' your thread, I just felt that this infomation might be of benefit and would help to make your thread more informative.

Not at all, I'm glad you mentioned it!

This is a great post! But just a question about the spring rates, in your case every car has a stiffer front then, no?

That's true with this method, well spotted. It's a simplification which usually works for front-engined cars, but yeah it's not always the best solution.

I deliberately left out the "if the car feels too twitchy, reduce the front spring rate" from Step 1 because the car is in such a poor state of tune at that stage, that it could be any number of wierd effects. It is kind of compensated for later on with the LSD Initial and toe settings. Which is not ideal, but I feel a necessary compromise to provide a simplified method.

Ahem... I don't see the anti-roll bar settings addressed there in the OP!

Hi, welcome to the madhouse! Actually, I added it to step 8 since you PMed me. But even now, I'll admit it is glossed over, my tuning style rarely uses anti-roll. Also, I've found the effects to be highly dependent on a lot of other factors (therefore unpredictable), so I avoided it to try and keep the guide black-and-white.

Same goes for dampers, my "experiment and see what you like" advice is such a cop out! But necessary to avoid epic threads of religious factions battling it out over tuning effects!!

You're right, though, anti-roll is a very popular tuning method. I'll do some more testing and try to reduce the vaguery of the anti-roll stuff soon.

IMHO, this guide bypasses the pitfalls one can fall into by assuming too much. And I really think that's one of the bigger hurdles in getting the hang of tuning.

Thanks! Yeah my aim was to avoid GT5 superstitions (often based on what works in real life) and focus on what observe as you tune.

 

[chukabilly]

This has been one of the most useful and enjoyable tuning threads I've read. Great job! 👍

 

[Highlandor]

nomis3613

Hi, just had some general thoughts about areas for tuning a car in GT5 that I feel can be important and again, might help to make your thread more informative.

1) Before you tune the car, drive the car as 'standard' (i.e. unmodified) on some different tracks - preferably a bumpy track and / or a track that will 'work' the car.

Find what you feel is good and bad about the car, then try and 'direct' your tuning to amend or correct the things you don't like and keep the things you do like. Or, to put it another way - correct the things that are bad and keep the things that are good.

2) 'Maxing' out a car - sometimes less is more, a car which is partially tuned can sometimes be just as enjoyable, or more enjoyable than a car which is fully tuned - it's personal taste and subjective to the 'tuner'.

Obviously, if a car is being tuned for a particular race series or event, then it'll need to be modified according to the regulations, which in some circumstances might mean either heavy modification or even being 'maxed' out.

Not sure if this last point has been covered already - apologies if it has.

3) Try not to use the best availble tyres or driving aids when testing, turn all aids off and use tyres that mean applying full throttle will create some kind of wheelspin or reaction upon exiting low speed or tight corners.

By having high grip tyres or driving aids on, these can sometimes 'overpower' or mask parts of a setup which may be detrimental to the car, but are not noticed as the tyres or aids are compensating for this or 'overpowering' it.

For example - traction / grip, or possible understeer.

Hope you don't mind me making these suggestions.

Kind regards
H

 

[nomis3613]

Chuckabily: thanks for the 👍!

Highlandor: Yeah, some really good points. Going back to your previous post, I'm keen to add some stuff about tyre and fuel wear (ok fuel doesn't "wear"... you know what I mean!). It's a very important part of online racing, so you're right, it should be included. I'll do some more testing and add it to the OP.

As for the points you bring up, here are my 2 cents. Hope I don't sound defensive, just giving you an idea where I'm coming from.

1) Before you tune the car, drive the car as 'standard' (i.e. unmodified) on some different tracks - preferably a bumpy track and / or a track that will 'work' the car.

Find what you feel is good and bad about the car, then try and 'direct' your tuning to amend or correct the things you don't like and keep the things you do like. Or, to put it another way - correct the things that are bad and keep the things that are good.

Yeah, I like to think that my method is a checklist for handling bugs to be ironed out. I agree that "directed" tuning will get to your end result quicker, on the other hand sometimes bad things are the combination of a few factors, so "fixing" it in one fell swoop isn't the best way. I guess there are advantages to each method.

2) 'Maxing' out a car - sometimes less is more, a car which is partially tuned can sometimes be just as enjoyable, or more enjoyable than a car which is fully tuned - it's personal taste and subjective to the 'tuner'.

I totally agree. Racing soft doesn't equal maximum fun IMHO. But I shouldn't be judgmental about what others choose to install(!). So I'll stay off my soap box and leave it as a method to try and optimise whatever parts a person chooses to install.

3) Try not to use the best availble tyres or driving aids when testing, turn all aids off and use tyres that mean applying full throttle will create some kind of wheelspin or reaction upon exiting low speed or tight corners.

As above with the "restaining myself from being judgmental". But also, swapping tyres can require a lot of changes to the tune, so I prefer to keep it simple for the people and keep the same tyres throughout all the testing.

By having high grip tyres or driving aids on, these can sometimes 'overpower' or mask parts of a setup which may be detrimental to the car, but are not noticed as the tyres or aids are compensating for this or 'overpowering' it.

Yep, AIDS are off, off, off! (except ABS, most people would agree that some ABS is required to make the cars drivable if you're not The Stig or don't have pedals.)

Also I agree with the high grip tyres masking settings, however like you say people have reasons for choosing to install the parts that they do.

 

[nomis3613]

Following some more testing of anti-roll bars, I've updated the Steps 2 and 3 to include them. Their use is probably understated compared with how much a lot of people use them, I've done that because I found their effects to be often unpredictable and subtle- I'm trying to shield this method from the uncertainties of GT5 tuning!

Happy to discuss, as always 💡

 

[turbo.928]

Thank you vey much I will try it tonite

 

[Audi90]

I just used your method to go about tuning my Audi R8. I'm fairly new to tuning and this really helped me a lot, thank you! My R8 now handles exactly the way I want it to 👍

 

[ColSandersLite]

Good advice nomis, but there's something you forgot to talk about. Overall ride height!

Personally, I create a general tune job for a given car that I expect to work in pretty much any situation (except I do tweak the gears per track). Ignoring the suspension mixup issue here, my step 1 is to set the car up even height, with moderate balanced spring stiffness, and no downforce. I use this figure out how high the car needs to be to avoid scraping the ground.

Been using the Circuit De La Sarthe's 3.5 mile (I think it is) straight for this. It's straight, but pretty bumpy, especially when you're doing over 200 mph on it . Once I'm happy with this, I'll also run a lap in the daytona high speed ring as well. Moving at about 200 mph in those high banked turns puts quite a lot of force on those springs.

I'm noticing that when your rear is dragging, it leaves sparks, but there is no such indication when its your nose, and the crappy camera views make it kinda hard to tell, but it's gotta be done.




Of course, if you're using your tune for a specific track only, you only need to check on that track. Also, if it's a specalised car for dirt racing or something, the test track needs to be appropriate for that.

 

[RockinVs]

subn...

nice write up. gonna have to give this a try when i have the time.

 

[nomis3613]

I just used your method to go about tuning my Audi R8. I'm fairly new to tuning and this really helped me a lot, thank you! My R8 now handles exactly the way I want it to 👍

Thanks! Glad to hear it helped.

Good advice nomis, but there's something you forgot to talk about. Overall ride height!

Indeed it is missing, well spotted. I've left it out in the name of simplicity. The results aren't predictable. I agree it can make a big difference, but I think you can often get a decent tune without messing with it.

Been using the Circuit De La Sarthe's 3.5 mile (I think it is) straight for this. It's straight, but pretty bumpy, especially when you're doing over 200 mph on it . Once I'm happy with this, I'll also run a lap in the daytona high speed ring as well. Moving at about 200 mph in those high banked turns puts quite a lot of force on those springs.

I'm noticing that when your rear is dragging, it leaves sparks, but there is no such indication when its your nose, and the crappy camera views make it kinda hard to tell, but it's gotta be done.

Yeah, it's a complex topic, you might be interested in this thread. I hope this doesn't sound rude, but since I've left it out of my guide, it'd be much appreciated if you want to continue discussing ride height (which I'm happy to do), could you do it in a thread dedicated to it please? Thanks heaps.

 

[Tbear]

Thank you, Thank you! This is just what the tune-up doctor ordered. I enjoy trying out the different experts tunes, but always wanted to try my own but didn't know where to begin. Can't wait to try your method out.👍👍

 

[nomis3613]

Thank you, Thank you! This is just what the tune-up doctor ordered. I enjoy trying out the different experts tunes, but always wanted to try my own but didn't know where to begin. Can't wait to try your method out.👍👍

You're welcome, hope it works out for you.

UPDATE:
Added this stuff about tyre wear and chassis stiffening:

-------------------------------
STEP 11: CHASSIS STIFFENING
If you're struggling to get a car to handle nicely, give the Chassis Stiffening a try (the catch is you can't remove it if you don't like it). Sometimes it can cure nasty handling traits (such as inconsistent mid-corner grip).

-------------------------------
STEP 12: TYRE WEAR
I haven't really studied tyre wear much (cos it is very time consuming!), here's some food for thought about tyre wear though.
- The easiest way to reduce tyre wear is to drive slower! Ok, that's stating the obvious, but in my opinion there are only small gains in tyre life to be had from tuning (unless something is very wrong to start with).
- It is more important that the tyres wear evenly than how much they wear. There's no point having rear tyres that last 10 laps if you have to pit every 5 to fix the understeer caused by worn-out fronts.

Here are some tuning methods that work to reduce tyre wear either in real life or previous GT games:
- less camber
- traction control
- tune the LSD so both tyres heat evenly

 

[CSLACR]

You should add this, even though I think you implied it, it's the number one rule in tuning.
Only adjust one thing at a time.
You can (and I have) adjust more once you get the feel of the different effects on a particular tune, but 90% of the time, you need to do it one at a time.

 

[nomis3613]

^ thanks for the tip, CSLACR. From time to time I still get caught out when trying to be lazy to changing multiple settings at once, so it's great to have a reminder.

 

[jsanford76]

Where do u find this "scratch" stuff that everyone is talking about, it's not in my tuning shop? Lol. Anyways good guide

 

[nomis3613]

Haha, you unlock it by entering the Konami Code!

 

[stano666]

Masive kudo's for this one. 👍

 

[nomis3613]

^ thanks, stano666.

I've added a disclaimer about online tuning. IMHO the method also works online, but I'm keen to hear what you think about it online (because most of my experience is offline).

By the way, this guide isn't intended to produce the perfect GT5 tune! It's a method to teach you about the effects of the settings and get the car feeling how you would like it to feel. Eventually, young Padawan, your tuning will become about finding the best combination to improve speed and not just feel.

 

[nomis3613]

Updated!

Major changes:
- ballast added in Step 1 *puts on flame suit*!!
- rant about not changing front:rear spring ratio once midway through a tune added in Step 8
- rant about using stiffness to change balance added in Step 8
- tyre heat discussion added in Step 11

 

[parksideu14]

This is a great thread.

 

[Schadenfreude13]

Or if the front tires are locking first - then the car is asking for more rear bias. I use brake bias to cure front wheel braking zone lock up, then look elsewhere to cure any remaining understeer issues.

+1 - I personally only make brake bias adjustments to deal with wheel lock issues. I also feel that using the brake bias to deal with understeer issues amounts to a bandaid for a suspension/LSD setup issue.