Hammer and sickle

[eliseracer]

So it happened today. Again.

I saw some kid wearing a bright red shirt with a yellow hammer and sickle in the middle of it.

I have lived in Canada all of my life, but I have a Latvian name and culture, I speak Latvian, a lot of my friends are Latvian and I've lived there for a summer. As most of you know, Latvia is a Baltic country and was under Soviet rule for 51 years. My people were deported, abused and almost asymilated.

Someone tell me this: why can this jerk walk around showing this logo, but someone can't walk around wearing a swastika t-shirt?

Communism has killed 10 times more people than the Holocaust did, has been equally racist, and somehow this kid has the right to have this symbol showing?

It makes me very angry, and to top it off, this kid (most likely) was just wearing it as a fashion statement, and he most likely has no idea what this symbol represents in the whole big scheme. I have friends who would spit on this kid, I held it back, but it still agitated me more than anything else in this world.

How this became a fashion statement is beyond me (came with the whole popularity of Che?). Someone please tell me why this kid is allowed to wear this kind of shirt, cause it just pisses me off and maybe theres a logical explination to this.

 

[Lee]

Perhaps he's communist?

 

[Zardoz]

...this kid (most likely) was just wearing it as a fashion statement, and he most likely has no idea what this symbol represents in the whole big scheme...

...which is exactly why its no big deal at all. Who cares about a dumb kid?

Forget it...

 

[sukerkin]

I agree, eliseracer, it is very hard to fathom why the swastica (which is at its core a symbol of mysticism rather than oppression) is so reviled now and yet the symbol of the CCCP is not.

As you say, the amount of murder, suppression and near genocide carried out under it's auspices, dwarfs the terror of the Nazi's.

I know that, historically, that Western Europe would not be free of the Nazi regime if it wasn't for the Russians and that a lot of resultant power-politicing went on towards the end of the Second World War, so perhaps that buys them a little leeway.

I don't expect that to give you personally any comfort tho' and I understand your anger.

On the subject of symbols and their hijacking, I feel somewhat aggrieved myself, in an oddly reversed kind of way to yourself, that, because of the actions of such groups as the BNP, English people are not allowed to fly our own flag at our homes or wear the Union Jack on clothing because it is supposedly racist :shrugs:.

 

[Lee]

because of the actions of such groups as the BNP, English people are not allowed to fly our own flag at our homes or wear the Union Jack on clothing because it is supposedly racist :shrugs:.

Tut BNP... :rolls eyes and burns BNP poster:

 

[eliseracer]

If the jerk is just too thick to realize that it's just a fashion statement is my point, why is he allowed to wear that, twice as much if he doesn't know what it is?!?!

If you just showed the flag in Latvia during the occupied times, you'd get a few years of prison time, in Latvia, if you were lucky. You could get deported to Siberia or killed. How rediculous is that, and this kid wears it proud and loud, the red and yellow.

Damn it makes me mad. I'm really tempted to go up to him and discuss it, and if he's ignorant about it, I can't say what would happen to him...

 

[Flame-returns]

Come to think of it the hammer and sickle is becoming incresingly popular. I doubt any UK GTP member has failed to notice the new Tesco clothing ad, for those abroad I will try to summarise it:

A woman stands on the arm of a giant statue of Lenin holding a hammer and sickle............................................................................................................................................ Tesco Logo

 

[Zardoz]

...because of the actions of such groups as the BNP, English people are not allowed to fly our own flag at our homes or wear the Union Jack on clothing because it is supposedly racist...

Okay, time out. This is news to me. Please elaborate. "Not allowed"??? Is there a law against it or something, or do you just not want to be identified with the BNP?

 

[Lee]

Come to think of it the hammer and sickle is becoming incresingly popular. I doubt any UK GTP member has failed to notice the new Tesco clothing ad, for those abroad I will try to summarise it:

A woman stands on the arm of a giant statue of Lenin holding a hammer and sickle............................................................................................................................................ Tesco Logo

Britiain now has a communist party too.

 

[Freddie]

There's a similar debate going on here, in a neighbouring community. There are kids who have made it a big point, that they are not allowed to wear clothing with the soutern-states flag (you know, the one on the general lee).

Their claim is that it now represents their very own "råner"-culture*, rather than segregation, slave-trading and such, and are offended that they are not allowed to wear the flag and similar symbols in public. They even have their own parents backing it up.

Altough I am myself not offended by this symbol, or the hammer-and-sickle (even though I'm aware of the slavery and racism, and the systemized mass-murders), it's because it's not etched into my mind hand-in-hand with "evil" like the swastika is. I think it might be a matter of education, teaching kids what the symbols mean today, their origin, and their general history.

* = (Warning: My impression) A community where people are social and apparently like to wear denim. As in denim everything. It's common to see "råners" drive old, battered cars, with a combination of distasteful, sallad-bowl of effects, both aesthetically and aurally (Imagine yourself: oversized wings, lots of Wonderbaum and white steelies on neon-green Volvo Amazones). They tend to violate traffic laws, though. They don't want trouble, they don't look for it, but they unintentinally get it anyway because they see things slightly different then everybody else do.

 

[pSI civic]

mostly such things are to get a rise from people. wearing the hammer and sickle is (i think) a skate boarder fashion thing. he probably wouldnt know the history about it. my guess is just wanted to make someone mad.

 

[Dreamonu]

Okay, time out. This is news to me. Please elaborate. "Not allowed"??? Is there a law against it or something, or do you just not want to be identified with the BNP?

No law against it, it's just not PC to call yourself an Englishman or fly your nations flag. It's fine if you're Scottish, Welsh or Irish, they can even have a national holiday to celebrate their nations patron saint, but for an Englishman to do the same in his own country tends to offend others and is therefore discouraged and thus in turn gives the impression that we all should somehow feel ashamed to be English here in England.

 

[Zardoz]

No law against it, it's just not PC to call yourself an Englishman or fly your nations flag. It's fine if you're Scottish, Welsh or Irish, they can even have a national holiday to celebrate their nations patron saint, but for an Englishman to do the same in his own country tends to offend others and is therefore discouraged and thus in turn gives the impression that we all should somehow feel ashamed to be English here in England.

That's...just...bizarre...

I guess the English are now truly the Anti-French. The French think that everybody else in the world should feel ashamed that they aren't French.

No wonder there are so many English expats here in the U.S. We're a nation of anglophiles, so they must feel really welcome here.

 

[blargonator]

mostly such things are to get a rise from people. wearing the hammer and sickle is (i think) a skate boarder fashion thing. he probably wouldnt know the history about it. my guess is just wanted to make someone mad.

wow......let me tell you quickly, its not.
although its just clothing, i do understand what you mean about being mad about it. i also understand what you mean about Ernesto Guevera being popular, it is stupid because most of the kids wearing shirts with his face on it do not even know anything about him.
i am not going to lie, i have a lot of intrest in his ideas, but at the same time wearing a shirt will not do anything so i don't plan on starting to wear them (i wear shirts, but most are plain anyways).
i just think if someone actually puts for the effort to learn about it and has good reasons to believe in the subject then its their decision.

but anyways, I say talk to the kid, if he does not know about it at all just give him a nice karate chop the the melon.

 

[Zrow]

'Cause check it out: It's become trendy to label yourself as a communist, especially if you're a high school student. They probably don't really know anything about it.

 

[pSI civic]

yeah if they did they'd realize they are going with what they are trying to go agaisnt. most highschool kids are just trying to be different.

 

[Solid Fro]

That's the problem, they do it to be differerent, yet they have no idea what the symbol actually means.

Nothing gets my blood pressure going than some reject walking around with a Che Guevara t-shirt on.



Tell me about it, girl.

 

[pSI civic]

its just the fabulus education system we have these days i guess.

now, tell that chick i agree but it would be much better if she took that shirt off to get her point across...

 

[Kent]

So it happened today. Again.

I saw some kid wearing a bright red shirt with a yellow hammer and sickle in the middle of it.

I have lived in Canada all of my life, but I have a Latvian name and culture, I speak Latvian, a lot of my friends are Latvian and I've lived there for a summer. As most of you know, Latvia is a Baltic country and was under Soviet rule for 51 years. My people were deported, abused and almost asymilated.

Someone tell me this: why can this jerk walk around showing this logo, but someone can't walk around wearing a swastika t-shirt?

Communism has killed 10 times more people than the Holocaust did, has been equally racist, and somehow this kid has the right to have this symbol showing?

It makes me very angry, and to top it off, this kid (most likely) was just wearing it as a fashion statement, and he most likely has no idea what this symbol represents in the whole big scheme. I have friends who would spit on this kid, I held it back, but it still agitated me more than anything else in this world.

How this became a fashion statement is beyond me (came with the whole popularity of Che?). Someone please tell me why this kid is allowed to wear this kind of shirt, cause it just pisses me off and maybe theres a logical explination to this.

I'm sorry man.
I can't say I feel your pain, but I do have some of the same sentiments within myself.

Hell, my little brother and I almost had to take on 5 dudes at a concert once just because neither of us would accept that a guy in our circle was wearing a CCCP hockey jersey (and we made them back down ).

But regarding your questions...
First off, ignorance lets him wear that shirt- straight up ignorance.
It's the only way he can do it without destroying his own sense of morals because if he knew what it really represented there would be no way to wear it without selling the soul it hides.
(sorry, not a laughing matter )

Also, another reason he can wear that shirt is for the very reason that you are fortunate enough to use the internet, because you and I are lucky enough to live in "free" countries (atleast good countries).

Finally, the main reason he can wear a shirt like that...
Is because of good people like you.
If it weren't for good people like you, who don't spit on people like him or beat him down for wearing a CCCP hockey jersey, he would never wear a shirt like that.

Do you think he would risk life and limb for a fashion statement? Hell No!

But because people like you (and hopefully myself) who will allow people to live based on our ideals of a free country he is able to wear that shirt and not get killed for supporting the opposition.

Bottom line:
We both hate this sort of jerky kid but we both have the honesty and the ethics to allow it simply because we believe in the exact opposite of what he is promoting.

By not spitting on him, by not beating him to a pulp, by not raping his family and cutting him up, you were doing the right thing and at the same time, the exact opposite of everything that shirt represents.

Long live freedom and happiness.
Down with communism forever. 👎

 

[Zardoz]

...now, tell that chick i agree but it would be much better if she took that shirt off to get her point across...

Well put!

I'm sorry, but to me the hammer and sickle is such a relic of the past now that its completely non-threatening. Correct me if I'm wrong, but do we or do we not have just two true Communist governments left in the world (Cuba and Vietnam)? No, I don't count China as "true Communist" because it is evolving away from that disfunctional system at such a rapid pace.

Communism imploded. It collapsed in on itself because it doesn't work. Karl Marx was wrong, and his system was doomed from the outset. It is a matter for historians to study, not for us to worry about. It is only a matter of time before even 'Nam and Cuba abandon it.

Like I said before, kids that throw on a Che or hammer-and-sickle shirt are just naive dweebs who have no idea what its all about. Next month they'll be wearing something else. Big deal. Who cares?

 

[ledhed]

That's the problem, they do it to be differerent, yet they have no idea what the symbol actually means.

Nothing gets my blood pressure going than some reject walking around with a Che Guevara t-shirt on.



Tell me about it, girl.

I wanna bite her belly button .

 

[blargonator]

my friend has that shirt^ except his is for a male (i don't know if that one is, it might be).
one thing that is annoying is he says stupid stuff about Ernesto Guevara that is always false.
but anyways, be sure to tell us more after you talk to the kid about it <8- )

 

[eliseracer]

I don't think I will, maybe if he gets in my face about something or if he gives me lip about "running into him" in the hallways. Then I'll politely ask him why he's wearing that shirt.

He also wears Maralyn Manson shirts, and other death-metal band shirts (with stupid death slogans and that mindless kind of crap). I don't think I would have any trouble if it would escalate, but I don't want to fight anybody, ever.

 

[Zardoz]

...He also wears Marilyn Manson shirts, and other death-metal band shirts (with stupid death slogans and that mindless kind of crap)...

Right. Any further questions about this cretin?

 

[Grand Prix]

They're just symbols guys. The more attention you pay to a symbol, the more power you give to it.

 

[pSI civic]

hey hey hey lets not talk about death metal here... i might don a hammer and sickle shirt and start some trouble...

like i always say, if it aint metal its crap!

har har har...

 

[Lee]

They're just symbols guys. The more attention you pay to a symbol, the more power you give to it.

That sums it up pretty well, just forget about it dude.

 

[Kent]

Zardoz has a point about chine, but even Vietnam is going down the same road... Just look at all the Pepsi-cans that turn into model airplanes and other sorts of tin toys in the hands of street vendors overthere.

Sure, it's not a big step towards a capitalist society but you've gotta start somewhere.

Also, regarding the relic of the past...
Tell all those people in cheznia (sp?) that the hammer and sickle is a meaningless relic.
I'm sure there would be a few muslim "terrorist" who would disagree.

Point is, the Russians never gave up on their goals, they just got a major set back or two.

 

[Lee]

Sure, it's not a big step towards a capitalist society but you've gotta start somewhere.

Noooo not capialism... Isn't it true that 10% of americans own somin round 70% of the countries wealth?

 

[pSI civic]

capitalizim is just the lesser of the two evils. no one said its perfect.