Harder, Better, Faster, Stronger: GTP9

[Robin]

I think I'll miss that navigation bar that was at the top of the screen. Just having the search bar makes it look a little boring and maybe a little awkward. IT looks especially lonely and like it was just kinda there when you are viewing the index and don't have the GTP Forums > ..... links filling the gap up there.

I just noticed this, just wondering how we access those sections like the member list now?

Robin

 

[Jordan]

To put it simply, I miss GTP8 Lite's simple and convenient menu bar. Personally, I don't see why half of the major forum functions need to be bunched into the small yellow box, while the other half are relocated to the hard-to-find and time-consuming-to-scroll-to blue bar found only near the bottom of the main forum index page. GTP8 Default was the same way, which is why I used GTP Lite exclusively.

Well, the "major functions" that I've now placed in the yellow box are the only ones people actually use. For example, the navigation bar which you're referring to contained links to the forum Help pages, Member List, and Calendar. Despite their prime real estate, these links received almost zero clicks, literally 7 or 8 visits per day. The quick links could be useful, yes - but honestly, how many times per day do you need deep links to edit your profile, options, or signature? On top of that, the other link's information is already displayed in My GTPlanet.

What's more, I don't think it's a good idea to leave the actual forum search function (you call it "advanced") as a small link next to what's blatantly a Google search box. Maybe it's just me, but I avoid Google-powered search engines on websites because they just don't work, and no offense, but the one here is no different. If any of our newer members are like me, that means fewer of them will even try searching before starting new threads. I understand you probably want to alleviate server load by reducing the number of searches on your server, but if we're going to emphasize the usage of the Google-powered search, it seems a bit unfair to emphasize searching before starting a thread, as the Google search often proves fruitless.

Although you don't like Google site searches, do you think it is worse than our forum software's standard search feature? vB's built in search facilities have received nothing but similar criticism in the past.

My humble request is for the GTP Lite style (which currently seems to do nothing but make the top of the page boring) to return to something similar to what it was before. Bring back the red menu bar, with those clear, easy-to-find buttons for My GTPlanet, New Posts, Private Messages, Search Forums, etc., and that drop-down menu for the functions currently found only in that blue bar at the bottom of the main index (Mark Forums Read, for example, which I use frequently). If users don't want all of the forum's functions staring them in the face, they can always use Default.

Yes, I forgot I did actually use the standard "navbar" template with the old GTP Lite, and you guys would be used to that. It's difficult to remember exactly how everything was configured in multiple styles when you never use them yourself.

... and the Welcome, Turbo Lag! thingy looks a bit big, maybe the font size a bit big.

Oh, duh, of course that is/was too big.

Hey Jordan do want a super high res/vector version of the GTP logo? The current one (and the "gtplanet" text) are a bit jagged when viewed close.

Thanks F1GTR, but your offer seems a bit odd. Having made all of the graphics here myself, I do certainly have the original vectors and logo font. What is it that you can provide me with? Also, how/where does the logo look jagged to you? It would be difficult to see unless the logo was on a very light background, but the text outline would appear a bit jagged due to the fact that it's an 8-bit palette-based PNG file. I never thought it was going to be an issue, but if you are able to see these jagged edges on some displays I will work with the edges a bit more.

Just having the search bar makes it look a little boring and maybe a little awkward. IT looks especially lonely and like it was just kinda there when you are viewing the index and don't have the GTP Forums > ..... links filling the gap up there.

I agree, I'm not happy with its location. However, after a few tedious hours of moving it around to different positions, I had to settle on placing it there. I'll be happy to take suggestions, but I have already tried every logical position I could think of. Having not planned the original header around a search box, it's difficult to not make the form look like an afterthought.

I just noticed this, just wondering how we access those sections like the member list now?

Robin

Robin, this was mentioned in my last post. It's near the bottom of the forum home screen now.

 

[Robin]

Jordan, if the search box had a 3D border round it (like the button boxes above it it would fit in really nice, or maybe if the search button was styled also like the buttons above it.

Don't know if I explained that very well, basically have it framed in some way, just a suggestion...

Oh and thanks for letting me know where all the section are located now.

Robin

 

[F1GTR]

Thanks F1GTR, but your offer seems a bit odd. Having made all of the graphics here myself, I do certainly have the original vectors and logo font. What is it that you can provide me with? Also, how/where does the logo look jagged to you? It would be difficult to see unless the logo was on a very light background, but the text outline would appear a bit jagged due to the fact that it's an 8-bit palette-based PNG file. I never thought it was going to be an issue, but if you are able to see these jagged edges on some displays I will work with the edges a bit more.

No worries about the vectors then Jordan, I just thought you might need a higher res version of the logo (and the reason i have one is that I made one for the GTP Awards banner competition), so I can't provide you with anything now that you've already said you have all the necessary files.


The jaggedness is definitely because of the 8-bit dithering, and it's most noticeable when I'm about 1 1/2 feet from my screen. The logo itself has the biggest jaggies, and they're mostly on the outer circle and 'Africa'. Is it not possible to use a 24-bit .png? There's a huge difference in quality, though it's about 8kb, but that won't slow the entire site down considering how image heavy the site already is.

 

[Sage]

I agree, I'm not happy with its location. However, after a few tedious hours of moving it around to different positions, I had to settle on placing it there. I'll be happy to take suggestions, but I have already tried every logical position I could think of. Having not planned the original header around a search box, it's difficult to not make the form look like an afterthought.

How ’bout something like this? (Ignore the huge gap below the nav buttons – I was too lazy to cut out the nav crumbs and redo the gradient.)

 

[Wolfe]

Well, the "major functions" that I've now placed in the yellow box are the only ones people actually use. For example, the navigation bar which you're referring to contained links to the forum Help pages, Member List, and Calendar. Despite their prime real estate, these links received almost zero clicks, literally 7 or 8 visits per day. The quick links could be useful, yes - but honestly, how many times per day do you need deep links to edit your profile, options, or signature? On top of that, the other link's information is already displayed in My GTPlanet.

I understand the logic, but the red navigation bar already embodied it -- the more-often-used functions were on the left, and the lesser-used functions were on the right, with the least-used functions grouped together in a drop-down box. It was like the menu bar of a program (File, Edit, View, etc.), and it was the most useful forum layout I had ever seen. Honestly.

As it is now, the lesser-used functions are too far out of the way. I used to use "Mark Forums Read" every time I left GTP, so that I could use "New Posts" to see exactly which threads have been updated since I left. I also used "Member List" whenever someone mentioned a member whose username I didn't quite recognize. Now I don't even bother with "Mark Forums Read" most of the time, and never use at "View All Users" anymore.

Although you don't like Google site searches, do you think it is worse than our forum software's standard search feature? vB's built in search facilities have received nothing but similar criticism in the past.

Yes. The only complaint I've ever had for the vB search is that it doesn't work with search terms of only two or three letters.

Just before I made the previous post, I tested the Google search against the vB search, using the search terms "enthusia nurburgring." Only one entry on the first page of the Google results was even related to Enthusia at all, and it was just the forum index for that game. The first result vB search gave me was the exact thread I had in mind. Today, it's the second result. Google returned the same thread on the fifth page, and doesn't tell you which forum any of the threads are in (vB obviously does).

I also tried the search terms "worthwhile webcomic," because I often use vB's search to track down sn00pie's "Worthwhile Webcomic Database" thread (I always forget about my subscriptions because it takes too many clicks to get to them). Google returned nothing. vB returned sn00pie's thread on the first page.

Yes, I forgot I did actually use the standard "navbar" template with the old GTP Lite, and you guys would be used to that. It's difficult to remember exactly how everything was configured in multiple styles when you never use them yourself.

That's fine, I don't expect you to remember how everything was configured. I'm just asking if you wouldn't mind going back to that.

 

[Robin]

Jordan my search bar look idea I mentioned in my previous post ive just done a really quick mock up... its meant to match the buttons above it and it also has a light shadow.. what do you think?

http://img222.imageshack.us/img222/3496/testze2.jpg

Robin

 

[Eric.]

Jordan my search bar look idea I mentioned in my previous post ive just done a really quick mock up... its meant to match the buttons above it and it also has a light shadow.. what do you think?

http://img222.imageshack.us/img222/3496/testze2.jpg

Robin

I like that, but it would fit in better if it was less wide. I would right align it above the Welcome box and put Advanced in a smaller font beneath the actual search button.

 

[Jordan]

No worries about the vectors then Jordan, I just thought you might need a higher res version of the logo (and the reason i have one is that I made one for the GTP Awards banner competition), so I can't provide you with anything now that you've already said you have all the necessary files.


The jaggedness is definitely because of the 8-bit dithering, and it's most noticeable when I'm about 1 1/2 feet from my screen. The logo itself has the biggest jaggies, and they're mostly on the outer circle and 'Africa'. Is it not possible to use a 24-bit .png? There's a huge difference in quality, though it's about 8kb, but that won't slow the entire site down considering how image heavy the site already is.

IE6 does not correctly display the additional 8-bit alpha channel required to display transparency in 24-bit PNG's, and a solid background color would look particularly nasty in that location. Do you really think the site is that image heavy, from a technical perspective? The primary template (buttons, and backgrounds) is made from only two images (a composite PNG file and the logo) which total 10.7 KB in size, and all of the images in the car rotation come in around 20 KB.

How ’bout something like this? (Ignore the huge gap below the nav buttons – I was too lazy to cut out the nav crumbs and redo the gradient.)

That's the best alternative, but there could be some ugly word-wrapping on the breadcrumbs with lower resolutions. Perhaps a smaller search box and removal of the word "Private" would help alleviate this to a degree. You're also going to have to answer the complaints about people not being able to see their username. They just wouldn't feel welcomed, you know, and we could start losing members left and right.

Also, where do you propose to put the search box for guests?

I understand the logic, but the red navigation bar already embodied it -- the more-often-used functions were on the left, and the lesser-used functions were on the right, with the least-used functions grouped together in a drop-down box. It was like the menu bar of a program (File, Edit, View, etc.), and it was the most useful forum layout I had ever seen. Honestly.

As it is now, the lesser-used functions are too far out of the way. I used to use "Mark Forums Read" every time I left GTP, so that I could use "New Posts" to see exactly which threads have been updated since I left. I also used "Member List" whenever someone mentioned a member whose username I didn't quite recognize. Now I don't even bother with "Mark Forums Read" most of the time, and never use at "View All Users" anymore.

All valid arguments. As soon as I can get some time I will bring the old navigation bar back to GTP Lite.

Yes. The only complaint I've ever had for the vB search is that it doesn't work with search terms of only two or three letters.

Just before I made the previous post, I tested the Google search against the vB search, using the search terms "enthusia nurburgring." Only one entry on the first page of the Google results was even related to Enthusia at all, and it was just the forum index for that game. The first result vB search gave me was the exact thread I had in mind. Today, it's the second result. Google returned the same thread on the fifth page, and doesn't tell you which forum any of the threads are in (vB obviously does).

I also tried the search terms "worthwhile webcomic," because I often use vB's search to track down sn00pie's "Worthwhile Webcomic Database" thread (I always forget about my subscriptions because it takes too many clicks to get to them). Google returned nothing. vB returned sn00pie's thread on the first page.

Well, I'm sorry that you don't find the Google search useful. I still think it is very simple to continue executing searches with the vBulletin system if you like. Don't forget that you can click on your search terms in the top right hand side of the Google results to quickly run your query with vB.

Jordan my search bar look idea I mentioned in my previous post ive just done a really quick mock up... its meant to match the buttons above it and it also has a light shadow.. what do you think?

I see the concept, but the ultimate implementation would be dark and heavy, as your image shows. Don't forget that the search box must also be displayed underneath an advertisement for the majority of our visitors.

 

[F1GTR]

IE6 does not correctly display the additional 8-bit alpha channel required to display transparency in 24-bit PNG's, and a solid background color would look particularly nasty in that location. Do you really think the site is that image heavy, from a technical perspective? The primary template (buttons, and backgrounds) is made from only two images (a composite PNG file and the logo) which total 10.7 KB in size, and all of the images in the car rotation come in around 20 KB.

I see, I remember seeing a workaround for 24-bit PNGs in IE6, it might be of some use: http://homepage.ntlworld.com/bobosola/
The jaggedness doesn't really bother me, although since the site is your creation it'd be annoying to know that the logo is a bit jaggy to some users. Plus new visitors may notice it too.

The banner is very lightweight from a technical standpoint - it's the content on the forums that's heavy, avatars, pictures in posts etc. that all add up. But it's of no concern for me, as even my phone loads everything up reasonably.

 

[land sea air]

Jordan the only complaint I have so far is I am a creature of habit and I will be click on "GTP Forums" for months now

 

[VEXD]

Ive seen one or two, but where's the rest of the complainers gone with their thanx?

The logo is back, lets at least thank Jordan for something! After all, we did plague him for weex about it.

Thanx for the logo return man.
👍

 

[Rotary Junkie]

Not for "senior members". If you could view the 'full' styles before, you won't see in-thread ads on GTP9.1.

Yeah, they went away after a refresh.

 

[Loon]

NVM, didn't read all of your post Jordan.

 

[Wolfe]

All valid arguments. As soon as I can get some time I will bring the old navigation bar back to GTP Lite.

Thanks, Jordan, you're the best.

Well, I'm sorry that you don't find the Google search useful. I still think it is very simple to continue executing searches with the vBulletin system if you like. Don't forget that you can click on your search terms in the top right hand side of the Google results to quickly run your query with vB.

No need to apologize for the Google search, it's Google's problem.

I have no problems reaching and using the vB search system, either. I was just offering the observation that some people may not try searching before starting a thread because the Google search is ineffective and undesirable, and they may not notice that the "advanced" option is powered by vB. Take from that what you will.

 

[Turbo Lag]

Oh, duh, of course that is/was too big.

Thanks Jordan, looks much better now

 

[V1P3R]

Eh... ok, is my eyes playing tricks on me? There was a point today where the "my control panel" was on the right next to "new posts" but now it's back to the left with the silver bar going across. Also, the themes have changed to just lite or default no Full?

 

[Sage]

That's the best alternative, but there could be some ugly word-wrapping on the breadcrumbs with lower resolutions. Perhaps a smaller search box and removal of the word "Private" would help alleviate this to a degree. You're also going to have to answer the complaints about people not being able to see their username. They just wouldn't feel welcomed, you know, and we could start losing members left and right.

Also, where do you propose to put the search box for guests?

 

[Joey D]

I think the spoiler text colour needs to be changed to match.

Spoiler

See

 

[Robin]

.

 

[ImprezaAddict]

Work it harder
Make it better
Do it faster
Makes us stronger
More than ever
hour after
work is
never over

I love that song... GTP new is awesome it looks amazing, but it performs exceedingly slow. But that's because its a school computer.

 

[Robin]

Jordan, just a quick question

How come Gallery is not listed among the buttons at the top of the page?

I think it would be good to place it there because currently there is no direct way to go to the gallery section, having it there may entice more people to sign up so they can see all the user content as well as the screen shots (I know they are already told this on the home page).

Also is there any chance we could have the Latest Topics 'ticker' in the forum area? Its currently in the News area but I think it would be useful for members to have it in here as well, what do you think?

Robin

 

[Wolfe]

Just tried switching back to GTP Lite, and the navigation bar is back! Thanks again, Jordan!

It even looks cleaner now. 👍

 

[Metar]

Is it possible to make the GTPlanet logo on top a link to the main forum-page? Most sites have such a thing nowadays, and I keep clicking the logo expecting to see the whole forum in front of me...

 

[livemusic]

I liked the new TV section but I thought it would be filled with videos, right now there's just a handful of them.

 

[ferrari_chris]

Is it possible to make the GTPlanet logo on top a link to the main forum-page? Most sites have such a thing nowadays, and I keep clicking the logo expecting to see the whole forum in front of me...

That is common, yes. But if anything it should redirect to gtplanet.net rather than the forum, so it may not do what you want it to.

 

[Metar]

True, but I expected some reaction. A logo that doesn't redirect is an oddity nowadays.

 

[Jordan]

Jordan, just a quick question

How come Gallery is not listed among the buttons at the top of the page?

I think it would be good to place it there because currently there is no direct way to go to the gallery section, having it there may entice more people to sign up so they can see all the user content as well as the screen shots (I know they are already told this on the home page).

Also is there any chance we could have the Latest Topics 'ticker' in the forum area? Its currently in the News area but I think it would be useful for members to have it in here as well, what do you think?

Robin

The gallery is no longer listed in the header because it is being phased out. In a coming version of vBulletin, user galleries are tightly integrated and will provide a much better long-term solution to image hosting than that old installation. I will provide more details about that when our upgrade draws near... As for the latest topics 'ticker', yes, this is coming with a redesign of our forum home page. It will feature the most popular recent threads, along with a few small excerpts and other info (similar - but not identical - to SitePoint's layout). And before anyone gets upset, everyone will still have the option of using the classic page.

Is it possible to make the GTPlanet logo on top a link to the main forum-page? Most sites have such a thing nowadays, and I keep clicking the logo expecting to see the whole forum in front of me...

It would be linked if it was a regular image, but it's a background so that complicates things a bit. It was also a background image in GTP8 and I don't recall it ever being an issue.

I liked the new TV section but I thought it would be filled with videos, right now there's just a handful of them.

Well, just upload some! I added a few, but I don't have time to download, encode, upload, categorize, name, label, and tag all of the GT videos that are around the net. I just did what I could to try and get things started. All of our old videos are still available from the gallery, so start grabbing them and putting them on GTTV. I can quickly and easily approve them.

 

[Robin]

Thanks for the info Jordan! 👍

 

[ferrari_chris]

... (similar - but not identical - to SitePoint's layout). ...

Yay SitePoint!

Sorry, way off-topic.

But my number one source of web trends, technologies, standards, opinions and such. 👍