Harvard study proves kids not affected by video games. Take that Jack Thompson.

[Motominded]

From GTA4 website...

"Guess who's back? Back again? Jack is back; tell a friend. As expected, Jack Thompson has emerged from the underside of whatever rock he's been hiding under for the past few years, just in time to go after Grand Theft Auto IV for -- guess what? -- excessive sexual content in Grand Theft Auto IV.

As noted in a recent Ars Technica article, Wacky Jacky has an "unlikely" bit of ammo for his case against GTA IV: a video, produced by IGN, highlighting the strip clubs and prostitutes that exist in Grand Theft Auto IV. For some ungodly reason, though, IGN seems to have thought it was a good idea to make a four minute video out of it, showing Niko and his "encouters" followed by him hunting down the ladies shortly thereafter.

From the Ars Technica article:

The embattled Florida attorney has written a letter to the US Attorney for the Southern District of Florida, R. Alexander Acosta, demanding that legal action be taken against Take Two and retailers for selling the game...

Thompson sent a copy of the letter to Ars Technica, and his demands are far-reaching. "Indictments should be returned against Take Two corporately and its Chairman, Strauss Zelnick, along with other Take Two officers. Indictment should also be against Sony and Microsoft which are making this pornographic game available to minors, and openly so, on their PS3 and Xbox systems," Thompson wrote. "Further, indictments should be handed down against Wal-Mart, Best Buy, GameStop, and all other retailers distributing this game to minors at their retail stores, openly, to kids who are only seventeen."

He then compares the game to, of all things, polio. "Grand Theft Auto IV is the gravest assault upon children in this country since polio. We now have vaccines for that virus... The 'vaccine' that must be administered by the United States government to deal with this virtual virus of violence and sexual depravity is criminal prosecutions of those who have conspired to do this. If you doubt me, look at the aforementioned streaming audio/video. It will make you sick."

While I'm certainly no fan of Jack Thompson or his ridiculous antics (and I'd love to argue the point that "innocent 17 year olds" are only a year away from being legally able to engage in such lude acts on camera for money... or in some cases, poorly-made t-shirts), it's hard to blame the man when IGN practically hands him a gift-wrapped video of inevitable controversy. Really... what the hell is IGN thinking by producing a video like this, removing all contextual elements of the game, and having Niko engage prostitutes and then hunt them down?

While it's unlikely that those in a position of authority will do much of anything in response to Jack's complaint, there's no doubt that the controversy will continue as we get further into the summer months. As usual, you can expect us to keep you updated on whatever whimsical nonsense spews forth from the great gooey geyser that is mainstream media."

 

[JohnBM01]

I've been a fan of GTA since playing GTA3 about maybe four years ago. It looks like this Texas boy is going to have a Texas-sized rant. So get ready!

My usual complaint against Grand Theft Auto is that there are too many sex references, all of which are unecessary and out of place. I mean, look at the Cherry Popper Ice Cream deal in GTA: Vice City and stuff. Or Glory Hole theme park in GTA: San Andreas. Just unecessary and out-of-place sexual material. I don't like this about GTA games.

So let me get this straight... IGN produces a video on GTA4 with "questionable" elements, given to Jack Thompson, and showcased to authorities to ban GTA4 for all its work. I have just one word to describe this:

...stupid.

Honestly... who the does he think he is? And how many pounds of crack was IGN smoking in releasing this video? You mean to tell me that you put together a video of prostitutes in GTA4 just to showcase elements of the game other than gameplay and other reasons to help people see what this game is about? Then you want to sue Take Two for allowing this content to be available to minors? See, this is one reason why I hate gaming media. It's why I also hate most mainsteamers. I stopped watching X-Play because of bulls:censored: reviews of games I've otherwised deemed good. Us gamers decide whether a game is good or not, NOT gaming media, and sure as hell not mainstreamers.

And legal action to sue Take Two for selling this game? Excuse me, but who came along and put together a four-minute video about Niko chasing down prostitutes? Right- IGN (IGNore). Fine. Maybe we should sue the sun because it brightens the sky and gives life to plants and give people at the beach something to enjoy. Maybe we should sue teenage girls because they love music and shopping rather than going to school and making good grades.. IGN put this on themselves, and Jack Thompson became his own Bill O'Reilly. And what about the children aspect? Hello- this is an "M" rated game for a reason. I don't have a son or a daughter, but I would NEVER let them play GTA4 simply because it's too intense and too much for much younger audiences. You may have approval to play the game, but is too much for younger audiences (usually Mature meaning 17 or 18 and older). Selling the game with this content to minors? Maybe people tend to forget what kind of audience these games cater to. Would I give GTA4 to an 11-year old boy or a 6-year old girl? If I bought the game, it would be for ME playing, not children. It's too violent and too intense for children. And if these games are given to children, then it's the parents' fault. Plain and simple.

IGNore makes the pathetic video, Jack Thompson tries to sell his claim from the IGNore-made video, and both of them look like asses. Take Two is not at fault. Take Two's chairman is not at fault. Since when was a GTA made for minors? All of this is just ludicrous and downright stupid. Basically, IGN was the virus while Thompson was the catalyst. Even more absurd is how they seem to make it out that 17-year olds are all of a sudden innocent victims of playing GTA4. Who's to say that playing GTA4 (or any GTA for that matter) all of a sudden makes you more likely to get caught by the police for committing a punishable crime? Is playing a perfectly-fine and legal video game a crime? Are we equating selling M-Rated games to selling tobacco as far as minors are concerned? The GTA series is controversial, but not THIS controversial. This doesn't have as much gravity as the "Hot Coffee" thing a few years back. Hot Coffee was controversy; this is stupidity.



If anything, a formal apology must be made by IGN for this despicable act and send Jack Thompson to 500+ hours of community service. Parents will need to pay better attention to the ESRB Ratings (whether you believe in them or not) and not just give the game to younger audiences simply because "it looks cool" or "he/she (someone younger than 17) wants it badly." What a way to make a higly-anticipated (yet controversial) game the biggest pile of controversy this side of the Hot Coffee thing. I guess some people stop at nothing to push any sort of propoganda to make themselves look stupid in front of the 326 million or so people in the United State of America and even around the world. Really the damndest of shames this is.

 

[KieranMurphy]

My usual complaint against Grand Theft Auto is that there are too many sex references, all of which are unecessary and out of place. I mean, look at the Cherry Popper Ice Cream deal in GTA: Vice City and stuff. Or Glory Hole theme park in GTA: San Andreas. Just unecessary and out-of-place sexual material. I don't like this about GTA games.

I completely disagree. The GTA games are clearly adult games aimed at an adult audience and the crude humour, strong language, etc. have always been a big part of the game.

What I find truly weird is that the sexual elements, which are completely tame compared with what you can find on late night TV, never mind the free hardcore stuff that kids can find for free on the internet, gets more controversy than the extreme violence. I mean, the Hot Coffee thing generated more hoopla than the fact that in San Andreas you carry out armed robbery, assassinations, etc. and kill more people than a major natural disaster, but some pixelated stupid looking simulated sex scene gets people's knickers in a twist? WTF?

 

[Hereward]

Theres an 18 age limit on it for a reason....I think theres less adult content in say and 18 rated Porn movie or say an 18 rated horror film like SAW, Ok so it's interactive....but less so than a readers imagination reading a book! I'd agree with him if it was rated 12 but the guy needs to get with reality and realise computer "games" are for adults as well and space invaders just dosn't cut the mustard any more!

This guy should actualy be gunning for the authorities around the world who rated the game "Sutible for 18 years and older" not Rockstar, If it was too explicit then it would have been banned by these authorities. You have to say GTA IV is more of a Black comedy rather than some subversive media intent on corupting the moral fiber of society! This guys famous around the world with games players.....for beeing an idiot, What a foot note in history eh!

 

[ExigeEvan]

Indictment should also be against Sony and Microsoft which are making this pornographic game available to minors, and openly so, on their PS3 and Xbox systems," Thompson wrote. "Further, indictments should be handed down against Wal-Mart, Best Buy, GameStop, and all other retailers distributing this game to minors at their retail stores, openly, to kids who are only seventeen."

*Snort* lets sue the internet!

No wait, that'd be too difficult, internet providers!

 

[Motominded]

I completely disagree. The GTA games are clearly adult games aimed at an adult audience and the crude humour, strong language, etc. have always been a big part of the game.

What I find truly weird is that the sexual elements, which are completely tame compared with what you can find on late night TV, never mind the free hardcore stuff that kids can find for free on the internet, gets more controversy than the extreme violence. I mean, the Hot Coffee thing generated more hoopla than the fact that in San Andreas you carry out armed robbery, assassinations, etc. and kill more people than a major natural disaster, but some pixelated stupid looking simulated sex scene gets people's knickers in a twist? WTF?

Welcome to the society that uses video games as a scapegoat for everything else. I gotta think about it this way though, the more Jack Thompson losses his tampon, the more GTA will sell. So thanks you idiot.

No my opinion on the ign video. I saw it before the launch and two things.
First the reviewer says GTA4 is the best game he has played in the past 10 years. After that he details some of the elements of the game and one is "Ladies of the Night" where a cut scene shows Niko getting a lap dance.
Next is a scene where he does a Fully Clothed prostitute in his car (like the old days) but you still cant see anything. It's just childish to keep doing this to GTA4 because at the age of 17, you should be able to tell what is the difference between wrong and right and blaming GTA is another conservative bashing where most have never played the game and only hear things like this. Shame really.

On the drinking and driving. Well stated by the guy from the GTA website.

GTA GIVES YOU CHOICES WITH CONSEQUENCES!

If you do illigal things any # of things can happen. For the drunk driving example.

Bad Choices = Drive Drunk.

1. Niko is told not to drive drunk.
2. Niko cant even stand up straight much less try to get to a car.
3. If he gets in a car it is hard to see the road.
4. If he drives drunk, police see him and chase him.
5. He can get injured by crashing the car or being shot by police.
6. He can die or have his girlfriend/friend killed because of his actions.
7. If you don't die, your bad driving could result in your girlfriend leaving you.

Good Choices = Not Drive Drunk.

1. Just stand there and wait to sober up.
2. GET A TAXI........GTA lets you commute as a Taxi passenger = Perfectly Legal & Safe!
3. Walk/Job/Sprint (While falling allot) to you destination.

It's ridiculous to me how most people against the GTA games have never played the game and just blame it on that front.

My only issue with GTA is the cussing. Not saying i don't but it's hard to play a game dropping F-bombs every sentence infront of family and kids. I wish before you start the game they gave you an option cussing/no cussing.

But that's a little thing. Knowing when and where to play the game is just as important as not taking any offensive material from it.

Jack Thompson, your a royal idiot and the main reason i was out there at Midnight spending $60.00. I hope Take-Two gets so rich they can just shut you up forever but i realize you are the best advertising money can't buy. I mean after "hot-coffee" GTA SA became the fastest selling game before Halo and GTA4.

 

[Zrow]

Jack Thompson is a publicity whore, and all of the aforementioned companies have the means to build a way better law team than him. I'm not gonna even pay attention to this kind of stuff this time around - I'm busy having fun with GTAIV!

 

[The Night Fox]

Why can't jack thompson just f:censored:k off and die, he has been annoying us all for a long time now and should be banned from breathing

 

[Hereward]

Why can't jack thompson just f:censored:k off and die, he has been annoying us all for a long time now and should be banned from breathing

I hear Gods releasing a patch to remove his lungs......

 

[Spuds725]

If you doubt me, look at the aforementioned streaming audio/video. It will make you sick."

OMG he was right--- (on the right)

 

[Eric.]

What I find truly weird is that the sexual elements, which are completely tame compared with what you can find on late night TV, never mind the free hardcore stuff that kids can find for free on the internet, gets more controversy than the extreme violence. I mean, the Hot Coffee thing generated more hoopla than the fact that in San Andreas you carry out armed robbery, assassinations, etc. and kill more people than a major natural disaster, but some pixelated stupid looking simulated sex scene gets people's knickers in a twist? WTF?

Exactly my thoughts. That sex game was one of the only legal things you could do in the game. God forbid children see pixels having sex.

 

[atwyatt]

Jack Thompson is making a mockery of the legal system.

He might as well (and more properly so) try to sue all *parents* who let their kids play such games. As they're much more responsible than Rockstar, or Wal-Mart, for their kids playing it. The companies have already done what they're legally required to do.

The problem is that no one's going to pay attention to a "recommendation" that rate-M games not be sold to people under 17. So they should make that rated M category legally binding, so that it *would* be enforcible if a store sold it to someone too young, or if someone let a younger family member play it. But all the people under 17 then wouldn't like it, and the game companies wouldn't like in general because they're selling fewer products.

But if they would make the M-rating legally binding, then that would solve a lot of the legal issues they're having with these games. Plus it would allow companies like Rockstar more freedom as to what they put into the games.

 

[Motominded]

http://www.reuters.com/article/technologyNews/idUSN0725760620080509?sp=true

SAN FRANCISCO (Reuters) - Playing video games does not turn children into deranged, blood-thirsty super-killers, according to a new book by a pair of Harvard researchers.

Lawrence Kutner and Cheryl Olson, a husband-and-wife team at Harvard Medical School, detail their views in "Grand Theft Childhood: The Surprising Truth About Violent Video Games and What Parents Can Do", which came out last month and promises to reshape the debate on the effects of video games on kids.

"What I hope people realize is that there is no data to support the simple-minded concerns that video games cause violence," Kutner told Reuters.

The pair reached that conclusion after conducting a two-year study of more than 1,200 middle-school children about their attitudes towards video games.

It was a different approach than most other studies, which have focused on laboratory experiments that attempt to use actions like ringing a loud buzzer as a measure of aggression.

"What we did that had rarely been done by other researchers was actually talk to the kids. It sounds bizarre but it hadn't been done," Kutner said.

They found that playing video games was a near-universal activity among children, and was often intensely social.

But the data did show a link between playing mature-rated games and aggressive behavior. The researchers found that 51 percent of boys who played M-rated games -- the industry's equivalent of an R-rated movie, meaning suitable for ages 17 and up -- had been in a fight in the past year, compared to 28 percent of non-M-rated gamers.

The pattern was even stronger among girls, with 40 percent of those who played M-rated games having been in a fight in the past year, compared to just 14 percent for non-M players.

One of the most surprising things was how popular mature games were among girls. In fact, the "Grand Theft Auto" crime action series was the second-most played game behind "The Sims", a sort of virtual dollhouse.

Kutner and Olson said further study is needed because the data shows only a correlation, not causation. It is unclear whether the games trigger aggression or if aggressive children are drawn to more violent games.

"It's still a minority of kids who play violent video games a lot and get into fights. If you want a good description of 13-year-old kids who play violent video games, it's your local soccer team," Olson said.

The researchers also try to place video games in a larger context of popular culture. The anxiety many parents voice over video games largely mirrors the concerns raised when movies, comic books and television became popular.

"One thing I like about their approach is that they've tried to historicize the whole concept of a media controversy and that we've seen this before," said Ian Bogost, a professor at Georgia Tech known for his studies on video games.

The book urges a common-sense approach that takes stock of the entire range of a child's behavior. Frequent fighting, bad grades, and obsessive gaming can be signs for trouble.

"If you have, for example, a girl who plays 15 hours a week of exclusively violent video games, I'd be very concerned because it's very unusual," Kutner said.

"But for boys (the danger sign) is not playing video games at all, because it looks like for this generation, video games are a measure of social competence for boys."

Many video game fans have embraced the pair as champions of the industry, a label that makes them uncomfortable.

"We're not comfortable doing pro and con. We've been asked to do the pro-game side in debates, and I don't consider myself a pro-game person. Video games are a medium," Olson said.

(Reporting by Scott Hillis; editing by Patricia Reaney)

 

[Rykon Zero]

I should really tell my mom about this.

 

[prisonermonkeys]

Do you really think Thompson is going to listen to this? If he doesn't ignore it outright, he's just going to declare that it's invalid because it's industry-sponsored or something.

Thompson's problem isn't that he's on some moral crusade against video games. His problem is that he's just political grandstanding. He is so desperate for the world to hear his voice and to know what he thinks that he's just become an attention whore. He doesn't care about the "victims of violent video games", he just cares about having his opinions heard. And his opinion on video games comes from the fact that they are so far removed from what he thinks is right that he takes issue with it. Video games aren't the cause of violence; the inability to distinguish between fantasy and reality is, and if you can't do that, you probably shouldn't be out in public unsupervised.

Having followed Thompson's campaign with disdain - it always helps to know what the enemy is doing - the only thing I can liken it to is the BBC documentary The Most Hated Family in America. Thompson is like Fred Phelps, the pastor of the Westboro Baptist Church, which is probably one of the most extreme borderline cult groups you'll find (but they're a threat to no-one). Phelps is so wholly convinced that he is righteous and morally incorruptible that he has managed to isolate himself and his family from the world because everyone else is wrong. In the same way, Thompson has ostracised himself from the gaming community; Phelps condemns America and everyone in it for looking the other way when it came to ignoring parts of the Bible and engaging in practices he doesn't approve of and so is "speaking out" about it. In the same way, Thompson thinks that the gaming community has been corrupted and he intends to do something about it, but in the end it's little more than ambulance chasing. I doubt he's seen any literature on the subject of videogames and violence and if he has, he's probably only seen the stuff he wants to see. This report changes nothing; Thompson will continue his crusade and make a nuisance of himself, and the world will forget him.

He's just a sad little king on a sad little hill.

 

[Motominded]

Do you really think Thompson is going to listen to this? If he doesn't ignore it outright, he's just going to declare that it's invalid because it's industry-sponsored or something.

Oh i know he wont listen to it.

I just figured more people would read this if i put that there

 

[Zrow]

Kids ARE affected by videogames, just like they're affected by anything else their developing minds are exposed to. Turning them into bloodthirsty killers, probably not, but it IS going to have an effect on them, as in make all of that violence a bit more 'normal' to them than it should be.

Seriously, just think about it. Kids have a harder time distinguishing fantasy from reality - that's part of being a kid. I feel like you need to keep things like murder and violence a big, bad thing for the little ones, because they ARE big bad things. Kids who play it every day on their Xbox could potentially forget this.

I know I sound like I'm making a case for Whacko Jacko, but I absolutely don't condone BANNING the games - I own and love GTA IV. I'm also a well-adjusted adult. I know I wouldn't want MY kids playing this game.

 

[prisonermonkeys]

Well, with all the media coverage that like likes of Grand Theft Auto IV is getting, I'd be a little curious as to why parents let their children play it. I mean sure, they can argue they were unaware of the game's content, but your kid is sitting there playing the game and you're in the house, you're going to notice it sooner or later. My parents never took an interest in the games I played, but they were always aware of what was spinning in the PlayStation at the time.

 

[Danny]

I should really tell my mom about this.

You. Are. Not. American.

 

[Appie]

You. Are. Not. American.

That goes for you too

 

[nissan tuner]

the most jack can ever hope to accomplish is mandatory ID checks for M rated games at retailers like they do with R rated movies. it becomes invalid when there's a guardian with the kid anyways (which is the case 80% of the time)

going after the game devs has to be the most retarded thing ive ever seen

So they should make that rated M category legally binding, so that it *would* be enforcible if a store sold it to someone too young, or if someone let a younger family member play it. But all the people under 17 then wouldn't like it, and the game companies wouldn't like in general because they're selling fewer products.

that will happen as soon as its illegal for kids to watch R movies, porn on the internet, ext. at home

 

[superberkut]

"Does it really? It looks like another crusade to keep M-rated games on the market. Seriously, there are less violent ways to keep amused with a PS2 or 3."

-anonymous parent

I don't doubt the credibility of the franchise in this respect, but the, 'social enrichment' discussed in this study could and often does (from what I heard) go the wrong way into harrassment and other issues. If the exposure did not affect the outlook of the players, then it would be a safe means of exploring one's tendencies or potential, as video games do. The delivery of this study, however, suggests that this is only a quickly-fabricated solution to the parents that complain about their kids being, 'plugged-in' and becoming antisocial by means of these games. Conversely, some parents (note some) dump their kids in front of the PS2 or the television to take responsibility off themselves (they do not care what their children are exposed to in this respect as well), and this is why the number of children that play these games is larger than what is often anticipated. Witnessing this, I can testify, even with the fact that I am not a parent.

 

[Zrow]

Conversely, some parents (note some) dump their kids in front of the PS2 or the television to take responsibility off themselves (they do not care what their children are exposed to in this respect as well)

TONS of parents do. I used to be one of the only kids I knew of that wasn't allowed to play violent video games when I was a younger, and I doubt times have changed all that much.

Once video games are seen more as a legitimate art form like films, maybe parents will take them more seriously and do more to monitor what their kids play.

 

[Alex.]

No doubt this will be completely ignored and we'l be hearing those idiots back on the radio and TV any time within the next 2 weeks.

Kudos to the writers 👍

 

[superberkut]

I know, because I am one of those kids. It is only at the age of 14 or so that I see the wisdom in such a limit. When I brought home a copy of Ace Combat Zero, I was scrutinized by my peers!

I had no idea that the number was that large, though. The times have not changed at all in this respect.

 

[my_r32]

The problem is that no one's going to pay attention to a "recommendation" that rate-M games not be sold to people under 17. So they should make that rated M category legally binding, so that it *would* be enforcible if a store sold it to someone too young, or if someone let a younger family member play it.

Well, over here in New Zealand, it is now legally binding(and has been for a couple years) that we have to show ID if we want to hire/buy/watch any R-rated movies or games etc. So if we look under-age we get asked to hand it over.

GTAIV received an R-18 rating here, we went to the midnight release at the local EB Games store, and people that were buying/paying for their copy, had to produce their ID if they looked close-to or under 18. I personally think that it is a good system to have, as it is left up to the parents of under-agers to decide if they want to let their kids have the game and not the game/video store

 

[Spec M]

Theres an 18 age limit on it for a reason....

Enough said.


Its rated M: for Mature, ages 17 and up. You can find humor around every corner and on every sign or piece of literature in GTA IV. Some of this humor maybe dark and some maybe sex related and so on. But it is humor, and I just find it silly that someone would be offended by it or anything in this game for that matter in the specified age criteria. If you don't want your kids to see these things.., do the world a favor, save us some time and simply don't let them have the game. Don't spoil it for the rest of the world with your rants and rabbles.

 

[prisonermonkeys]

For some ungodly reason, though, IGN seems to have thought it was a good idea to make a four minute video out of it, showing Niko and his "encouters" followed by him hunting down the ladies shortly thereafter.

Well, this just proves that I was right in not crediting IGN with an over-abundance of intelligence.

The world will ultimately forget Jack Thompson, and we'll all be better off for it. Eventually, his only legacy is going to be a strongly-worded Wikipedia page.

 

[Pupik]

Merged this Jack Thompson thread with the other Jack Thompson thread.

We do not need 2 threads singling out Jack Thompson in the same forum running concurrently.

 

[Scaff]

Grave digging a little but its the right place for the discussion

Most people believe that since a game or TV program is fiction that it doesn't effect the human psyche. I say it does.

Could not agree with you less, and to date its never been shown to be a causal factor.