Help a dissapointed noob...please

331
possum_eaterz
I got NFS 2 the day it came out and I played it for a while. I thought it was a cool game but after a while the shiny wore off and I exposed its true self.

A game that tries to be a sim and "arcade-y" but fails miserably at both.

/rant

Anyway, I am a G25 user and I would like to know what setting people are using on their wheels.

It seems like I am getting virtually no feedback as I speed up....when I go slow and jerk the wheel I get a little resistance. The rest of the time it feels like a wet condom. Which makes it almost impossible to drift.

Also, does anyone have any suggestions on drifting? I need some help lol, mainly due to the fact that I can't feel the road through the wheel like I am used to doing in GT5.....

Help please..

Thanks
 
I use 0% steering dead zone and 40-45% steering sensitivity. The latter is an attempt at making the cars more controllable in spite of the steering lag (AFAIK 50% sensitivity is linear steering and lower setting give increasingly exponential steering response).

Lots of people say the drifting is overly hard with a steering wheel. I tried a little bit (not my thing) and it isn't easy...

There is a patch on its way, which will probably address the steering and FFB issues among other things.

DJ
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No problem hope it helps, BTW I just saw a link in the shift2 video thread for a wheel set up guide, might be worth a look.:)👍
 
Let me know if anything works for you, i gave up on this several weeks ago. Tried all the different settings suggested and it just does not sim right. Maybe you'll have better luck.
 
Thanks guys I gave the first suggestion and it didn't help :(

I will try AWDwhite_2g's link....see if that works.

What annoys me is that the advertize that it has the most advanced physics model and full support for all wheels and we have to put up with this ********
 
They are working on fixing it. That's about the most encouragement we're going to get until the patch is released.

What platform are you playing it on?
 
Try this ,these are my settings, i think they work great!!!

This is my setup now ,check it out i think it works pretty good..
Force Feedback Strength - 85%

Steering Deadzone - 1%

Steering Sensitivity - 75%

Throttle Deadzone - 0%

Throttle Sensitivity - 40%

Brake Deadzone - 0%

Brake Sensitivity - 45%

Clutch - 60%

Speed Sensitivity - 0%

Speed Sensitivity(Drift) - 0%

Steering Lock - 540

Steering Lock(Drift) - 540
 
I just posted my settings using FinnZevo's template on the G27 thread.

If everything else fails, try them. Also the patch is around the corner and i've read they've fixed it as far as hardware allows.
 
Thanks guys I gave the first suggestion and it didn't help :(

I will try AWDwhite_2g's link....see if that works.

What annoys me is that the advertize that it has the most advanced physics model and full support for all wheels and we have to put up with this ********
Thing is, you can't adjust away the underlying nature of the game. Also, the numerous controller settings posted around the net vary wildly, often between opposite extremes with no rationale, something which only serves to add confusion. It's a mess TBH.

DJ
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Thing is, you can't adjust away the underlying nature of the game. Also, the numerous controller settings posted around the net vary wildly, often between opposite extremes with no rationale, something which only serves to add confusion. It's a mess TBH.

DJ
--

I play Shift 2 with a wheel on elite mode and my opinion of the game is based on that.

While it sucks that the default controller settings are really bad and that the default settings for some cars are not ideal there is nothing wrong with the underlying physics of the game. Actually they are by far the most advanced physics on any console racing game and can be compared favorably to even the most advanced PC sims. Also the amount of tuning options (steering lock, tire pressure, caster, suspension tuning, etc) can make a real difference and transform any car with bad defaults to a great driving machine.

While there are various advices on what are the ideal controller settings are it's all a matter of style. You must (unfortunately) spend the first races of the game to fine tune the wheel settings to suit your driving style. Actually it's not that difficult. If you find the car to steer very fast and the steering to be imprecise decrease sensitivity or increase maximum lock, if the car seems to not steer quickly enough and there is 'steering lag' increase sensitivity and/or decrease maximum lock. Thankfully after you have done that the game is brilliant! :D

Then when you find some settings that seem to fit most cars, fine-tune your favorite cars accordingly (like adjusting steering lock) and taking advantage of the excellent live-tuning feature while reading the description on what every tuning setting does. Also the 'physics hud' can be helpful to see how the car is behaving (are the tires too cold? too hot? is there too much body roll and a wheel is losing traction? etc) and to admire the simulation engine at work. I am not aware with any other console racing title with such an advanced simulation model and tuning system that is based on car behavior data (and no, the GT5 telemetry doesn't count, not enough information and besides it doesn't even have customizable tire pressure or temperature readings!!).

I find Shift 2 to be realistic, exciting, rewarding and most importantly fun and never frustrating or boring! Even tuning cars on different tracks and saving setups for each track is fun! Always remember that tuning on Shift 2 is based on what is logical and not some magic formula. For example if your high powered car is neutral at slow speeds but it has violent high speed oversteer then increasing rear downforce would probably correct it as there will be a stronger force pushing the back of the car at high speeds, and then of course you may need to stiffen rear suspension, etc. Also you can search the net for real-car tuning tips and use them to tune your cars in Shift 2. Of course you must always try to visualize the forces on the car and understand how every tuning setting changes these forces. This game has amazing depth! :D:tup:

Some people are calling Shift 2 arcade just because it doesn't handle like GT5. They are extremely narrow minded! Besides there are parts of GT5's simulation that are way off and in my opinion prove that there is something really wrong with GT5's physics. Things like, unrealistic car stability over curbs, after jumps, how easy it is to catch a slide and there is no risk of over-correction, lack of customizable tire pressure, lack of tire temperature readings, etc. Shift 2 (once you fine tune your wheel settings and the cars) is much more realistic and has much more involving handling, not to mention much better AI, sounds, realistic damage, collisions, consequences of reckless driving etc. It's an amazing game! :D
 
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I use the steering sensitivity to get the steering wheel onscreen to match the steering wheel in my hands at about 1/4 to 1/2 a turn in other words i want the onscreen wheel to be in the same position to my "real" wheel as much as possible. Then use the steering lock setting to adjust the amount of steering input to make the car pitch in the corner , usually at the point my arms cross over or just before. The other thing is tyre pressure ,50 psi is way to high ,it makes the car feel like you are driving on marbles .I have found 32-40 psi to give much more control and stability, it even makes the steering heavier . Go and put 50 psi into your own car and take it for a blast and it will feel very light and floaty as well.
So i think the physics are there you just have to find them.

My weapon of choice is the logitech G25 and here are some of my personal tuning tweaks for anyone who would like a try.

Handling mode - elite
FFB - 100 %
Steering sensitivity - 67 %
Steering dead zone - 1.
Wheel rotation - 900*
Steering lock - 27. (very important)
tyre pressure - 38 / 38.
most of the other setting are default more or less.

all suspension/brake settings to middle of range (stiffness, rebound, dampening etc) ridehight 2 or 3 front and back

I use this as my default setup for basically all cars on all tracks and then work from there to individually tune each car.

hope this helps.
 
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I play Shift 2 with a wheel on elite mode and my opinion of the game is based on that.

While it sucks that the default controller settings are really bad and that the default settings for some cars are not ideal there is nothing wrong with the underlying physics of the game. Actually they are by far the most advanced physics on any console racing game and can be compared favorably to even the most advanced PC sims. Also the amount of tuning options (steering lock, tire pressure, caster, suspension tuning, etc) can make a real difference and transform any car with bad defaults to a great driving machine.

While there are various advices on what are the ideal controller settings are it's all a matter of style. You must (unfortunately) spend the first races of the game to fine tune the wheel settings to suit your driving style. Actually it's not that difficult. If you find the car to steer very fast and the steering to be imprecise decrease sensitivity or increase maximum lock, if the car seems to not steer quickly enough and there is 'steering lag' increase sensitivity and/or decrease maximum lock. Thankfully after you have done that the game is brilliant! :D

Then when you find some settings that seem to fit most cars, fine-tune your favorite cars accordingly (like adjusting steering lock) and taking advantage of the excellent live-tuning feature while reading the description on what every tuning setting does. Also the 'physics hud' can be helpful to see how the car is behaving (are the tires too cold? too hot? is there too much body roll and a wheel is losing traction? etc) and to admire the simulation engine at work. I am not aware with any other console racing title with such an advanced simulation model and tuning system that is based on car behavior data (and no, the GT5 telemetry doesn't count, not enough information and besides it doesn't even have customizable tire pressure or temperature readings!!).

I find Shift 2 to be realistic, exciting, rewarding and most importantly fun and never frustrating or boring! Even tuning cars on different tracks and saving setups for each track is fun! Always remember that tuning on Shift 2 is based on what is logical and not some magic formula. For example if your high powered car is neutral at slow speeds but it has violent high speed oversteer then increasing rear downforce would probably correct it as there will be a stronger force pushing the back of the car at high speeds, and then of course you may need to stiffen rear suspension, etc. Also you can search the net for real-car tuning tips and use them to tune your cars in Shift 2. Of course you must always try to visualize the forces on the car and understand how every tuning setting changes these forces. This game has amazing depth! :D:tup:

Some people are calling Shift 2 arcade just because it doesn't handle like GT5. They are extremely narrow minded! Besides there are parts of GT5's simulation that are way off and in my opinion prove that there is something really wrong with GT5's physics. Things like, unrealistic car stability over curbs, after jumps, how easy it is to catch a slide and there is no risk of over-correction, lack of customizable tire pressure, lack of tire temperature readings, etc. Shift 2 (once you fine tune your wheel settings and the cars) is much more realistic and has much more involving handling, not to mention much better AI, sounds, realistic damage, collisions, consequences of reckless driving etc. It's an amazing game! :D

Vroooom, it's good to hear you're enjoying the game.

However, some expect simulated racing cars to behave quite convincingly like the extremely well driving cars they're supposed to portray, and don't get that no matter how much tweaking is done because of the underlying characteristics of the game. And that's not necessarily due to not understanding things - in fact it's quite often the very opposite; i.e. the most knowledgable and experienced drivers/simmers are usually the ones that can identify problems and are most plagued by uncorrectable flaws.

So far the game amazes me too, but for the wrong reasons... ;) A well crafted patch or two could possibly change that 👍

DJ
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Thing is, you can't adjust away the underlying nature of the game. Also, the numerous controller settings posted around the net vary wildly, often between opposite extremes with no rationale, something which only serves to add confusion. It's a mess TBH.

DJ
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Different settings can just mean different styles/preferences. That's why endurance teams try to match drivers with the same stature, driving style, same average lap times... Or there's always one that need to adapt to the car/bike (trains? :D )
 
DrJustice, shouldn't we find it strange that the same wheel and controller settings work well for everybody and feel the same with every car in GT5? That doesn't seem to match with real life...

I like that the FFB characteristics change between cars in Shift 2 and is much more realistic, i.e. MK1 Golf has light and loose FFB, where the GT3 cars are heavy and tight :) Something is a bit wrong with some cars, for me the Radical and 427 Cobra feel almost like the FFB is reversed. The patch should fix those problems though.
 
^ Of course different cars should feel different, I've never suggested otherwise. But yes, the same control settings (i.e. correctly simulated steering response) should work for anybody in the sense that a simulated car is what it is - e.g. you can't adjust exp/log steering response in cars. Furthermore, real performance cars drive very well, not needing the steering to be "fixed" to be driveable.

The things we should concern ourselves with adjusting are the car setups, not having a futile fight against a bad control scheme. When extreme opposite control settings are all promoted as "fixing" the game, there's something wrong with one or both of the game and the "settings culture". 💡

DJ
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^ Of course different cars should feel different, I've never suggested otherwise. But yes, the same control settings (i.e. correctly simulated steering response) should work for anybody in the sense that a simulated car is what it is - e.g. you can't adjust exp/log steering response in cars. Furthermore, real performance cars drive very well, not needing the steering to be "fixed" to be driveable.

The things we should concern ourselves with adjusting are the car setups, not having a futile fight against a bad control scheme. When extreme opposite control settings are all promoted as "fixing" the game, there's something wrong with one or both of the game and the "settings culture". 💡

DJ
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Agree with this, Although these kind of settings are very common in hardcore PC sims it's the last thing console gamers want to see, we want to be able to pick up the pad or wheel and have great control's right off the bat without having to fanny around for days trying to get the control's setup.
 
Agree with this, Although these kind of settings are very common in hardcore PC sims it's the last thing console gamers want to see, we want to be able to pick up the pad or wheel and have great control's right off the bat without having to fanny around for days trying to get the control's setup.

The truth is that Shift 2 is much closer to a PC sim, therefore it inherits all the 'tweaks' that are necessary to enjoy it.

And I am glad it is! Console users were stuck with sterile and unrealistic so-called 'sims' (like GT series) for too long! The myth that GT series were realistic and 'driving simulations' was constructed by marketing and gaming-press. Actually GT5 is the only game in the GT series that can be classified as sim (GT3 and GT4 had awful, unrealistic handling and yet they were praised as sims!) and it still has many flaws in the physics model! In my opinion it isn't even based on a physical model (if it was were is the tire model? tire temperatures? tire pressure? why is the car so stable over curbs and after jumps? why the collisions and mistakes have minimal or zero consequences?)! Shift 2 is based on a much more advanced physical model and it has much more potential for future versions.

Unfortunately, many are continuing to believe that because Shift 2 (or any other game) has different handling than the 'real driving simulator' (yeah, right!) it's arcade! Or because Shift 2 has more difficult handling than the forgiving handling of GT5 is not realistic!

If you are planning to play a 'realistic' driving game with a gamepad, buy GT5 over Shift 2 by all means! Shift's 2 handling with a gamepad is much worse than GT5's handling with a gamepad. But don't think that driving a car with a gamepad is realistic, it's not! A gamepad isn't precise enough to be used with a simulation engine based on physical data. If you are going to use a wheel, and you are willing to spend some time to tweak you wheel settings, Shift 2 offers a much more advanced and realistic handling model that is more challenging, rewarding and fun. Also it has much more depth thanks to the advanced tuning which is very logical since it is based on a physical model!

I don't deny that GT series helped simulation driving games on consoles. For once it convinced Logitech and Sony to create some great wheels that are compatible with consoles. It also helped simulation driving games to expand to consoles, and this way we can enjoy games like Shift and Forza (haven't tried it but I hear it is nice). But in my opinion GT series as a whole is way overrated and it isn't as realistic as many people like to believe! And right now (thank to the unjustified praise GT5 is getting) GT series is actually detrimental to the progress of console driving/racing-sim-games!
 
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^ Vrooom, I get what you're saying (I'm not discussing GT5 here though). I'm all for adjustability as a general principle and like the fact that S2U is half-way PC'ish in this area 👍. But I'm not for having to "repair" things that are non-adjustable inherent characteristics of real cars (talking steering here), especially where reparation isn't really possible and only results in various wrong (read non-realistic) responses.

I assume we'll all have our opinions on S2U's qualities, but the implied assertion in many of these discussions that those having issues with S2U's controls either lack understanding of driving/sims or are GT5 fanboys, and just need to adopt this or that set of tweaks is getting a bit annoying. I hope that a patch will fix, not only the most critical issues with the game, but the circular discussions as well :)

DJ
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Thanks guys I gave the first suggestion and it didn't help :(

I will try AWDwhite_2g's link....see if that works.

What annoys me is that the advertize that it has the most advanced physics model and full support for all wheels and we have to put up with this ********


Exactly how i feel. It's a whole bucket full of marketing *****.
 
And I am glad it is! Console users were stuck with sterile and unrealistic so-called 'sims' (like GT series) for too long! The myth that GT series were realistic and 'driving simulations' was constructed by marketing and gaming-press.
Flaws aside then this is an illusion?

 
^ Vrooom, I get what you're saying (I'm not discussing GT5 here though). I'm all for adjustability as a general principle and like the fact that S2U is half-way PC'ish in this area 👍. But I'm not for having to "repair" things that are non-adjustable inherent characteristics of real cars (talking steering here), especially where reparation isn't really possible and only results in various wrong (read non-realistic) responses.

I assume we'll all have our opinions on S2U's qualities, but the implied assertion in many of these discussions that those having issues with S2U's controls either lack understanding of driving/sims or are GT5 fanboys, and just need to adopt this or that set of tweaks is getting a bit annoying. I hope that a patch will fix, not only the most critical issues with the game, but the circular discussions as well :)

DJ
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I too agree that they should have worked more on the default settings. I prefer things (especially games) to be good by default, or good by default and can become better with tweaks. Shift 2 is very bad by default but (in my opinion) it can become very, very good by tweaks.

Some people may like Shift2's handling a lot, others not so much. But if you are objective I think you can't deny that Shift 2 is a simulation and is based on a physical model. Some may think the physical model is great, others that it's flawed. All different opinions are accepted and can be constructive. But if someone is calling Shift 2 arcade while calling GT5 simulation is pushing it and in my opinion he is not objective!

I have heard people calling Shift 2 arcade because collisions with other cars have consequences and you must actually plan your moves and not just force your way through by crashing on them! Or because they can't ride curbs in Nordschleife at full speed while having half the car over the grass without the car destabilizing! The same people call GT5 the ultimate simulator because it allows these obviously unrealistic behaviors! I am not calling GT5 arcade, it definitely is a simulator, it feels incredibly realistic at times but it's way too forgiving at times and therefore it is (in my opinion) flawed. Also I have my doubts if it is based on a physical model due to these flaws.

Maybe they could in Shift 3 (hope there will be a Shift 3) provide an optional steering assist that would make Shift's handling resemble GT5's handling. I think they could use the code that moves the helmet cam during cornering to help stabilize (by a user adjustable factor) your steering into corners. Something like that would be extremely helpful to gamepad users and it could limit the amount of complaints that Shift is uncontrollable.

I am also looking forward to the patch and also to the legends pack! :D
 
Yeah I had a feeling the OP would not find anything useful, but I was hopeful as I have not yet tried S2U and hoped it would turn out realistic, unlike shift1. The thing is S2U might calculate all this physical data that GT does not, but if it does not behave like a real car, then it's not a good sim in my opinion. I'll be renting this when the patch comes out just to see for myself, like I did with shift1. These settings for the wheel in S2U are like settings you would find for a joypad on a real sim, I don't remember having to change wheel settings according to the cars in a sim before, besides wheel rotation and thats usually done automatically if you wish. I have played a few sims and most of them I only played until I thought they were not good enough, or just didn't suit me, so I'm not claiming to be a sim expert.

@zero: I don't see what you're getting at.
 
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Flaws aside then this is an illusion?

Yes! First of all it's pixels on a screen and 0,1 on a computer chip! Of course it's a illusion! Just like a painting is an illusion or special effects in movies are an illusion! Or do you believe that because Death Star was on TV it is real? Or that since you could land a Boeing 747 in Flight Simulator (an excellent simulator nonetheless) you could land a real Boeing 747?

Furthermore GT4 was a very bad simulation even on it's day! And now it's laughable at best!

And since you seem to like to dig ancient, low-quality youtube videos these may interest you:


Oh look, according to GT5 Prologue, ABS is not needed!!


Many GT4 flaws exposed...


...yet there were other PS2 games that seemed to achieve much better results.

As a whole your GT4 video may look realistic to the untrained eye, but once you get to drive on GT4 you will understand that is all smoke and mirrors to generate nice replays! GT4 is a simulation joke! Thankfully GT5 is much improved, it's the only GT game I consider to be a sim, it has corrected many handling flaws from the old versions (they say that Enthusia's physics programmer is working on GT5), but it's far from perfect and is much worse physics-wise than PC sims and (in my opinion) Shift 2 (I don't know about Forza, haven't tried it).

Now, can we get back on topic?
 
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@ vroom: I'm glad you said it, the only good thing for me about GT4, was it made me realise that GT will never be a serious sim and forced me to find some real sims.
 
Yes! First of all it's pixels on a screen and 0,1 on a computer chip! Of course it's a illusion! Just like a painting is an illusion or special effects in movies are an illusion! Or do you believe that because Death Star was on TV it is real? Or that since you could land a Boeing 747 in Flight Simulator (an excellent simulator nonetheless) you could land a real Boeing 747?

Furthermore GT4 was a very bad simulation even on it's day! And now it's laughable at best!

And since you seem to like to dig ancient, low-quality youtube videos these may interest you:


Oh look, according to GT5 Prologue, ABS is not needed!!


Many GT4 flaws exposed...


...yet there were other PS2 games that seemed to achieve much better results.

As a whole your GT4 video may look realistic to the untrained eye, but once you get to drive on GT4 you will understand that is all smoke and mirrors to generate nice replays! GT4 is a simulation joke! Thankfully GT5 is much improved, it's the only GT game I consider to be a sim, it has corrected many handling flaws from the old versions (they say that Enthusia's physics programmer is working on GT5), but it's far from perfect and is much worse physics-wise than PC sims and (in my opinion) Shift 2 (I don't know about Forza, haven't tried it).

Now, can we get back on topic?

much worse than shift2? Then how do explain drifting ... even the developers said that physics is in between shift1 and GT5. You must have a different copy of shift2.
 
much worse than shift2? Then how do explain drifting ... even the developers said that physics is in between shift1 and GT5. You must have a different copy of shift2.

I shouldn't even reply to you for making such a ludicrous claim about GT5's drifting but I will bite!

Does that seem real to you?


First of all is there any tire that could withstand a whole lap drift?
Also does the fact that the car is stable even when the back wheels step on grass seem real to you?
Are you seriously still thinking that GT5's drifting is realistic?

Ludicrous GT5's drifts can be fun in a poser-ish way, but they are not even remotely realistic. I am just not interested in silly unrealistic drifting. If I was I would have bought NFS-HP!

As for Shift2's drifting, tires will blow out and to keep the balance of the car requires delicate handling and throttle control. Also while I haven't extensively tried drifting in Shift 2 (really not interested) I am getting better at it and I am thinking that with some careful tuning drifting can become easier. Therefore I think that it's more realistic that GT5's. I just need to invest in a 900º wheel since this can give the necessary steering lock and precision required for drifting.

Also drifting is something very difficult to simulate with a physical model (it's a state of unstable equilibrium and therefore a nightmare for any physical/mathematical model) but I am glad SMS tries to simulate it even though it probably isn't perfect. But I prefer it over GT5's hand-holding ludicrous unrealistic drifting!
 
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The drifting in GT5 can be fun but it's not very realistic in many ways, one thing is you have to press the throttle too much and lifting off the throttle has the wrong effect on the car.
If the drifting in shift1 hasn't been improved upon in shift2, it's much worse than GT5. The steering in shift1 drifting mode, was different from racing mode and it was a major pain for me as far as I remember it only used a small amount of wheel turning not 900 degrees. It felt like when the car was in a drift, it had a predetermined line that was very hard to change, I hope they at least fixed that much in shift2. The only game I've played that simulates drifting properly is LFS.
 
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