Help Me Plan My Car Life (new car search @post 290)

[Famine]

If you want one, somebody else will have already wanted and imported it.

 

[astrosdude91]

I don't know if you can really find a true "Honda" NSX here in the states, since there is really no reason to import one; The Acura is pretty much the exact same car. You can find imported pre R35 Skylines here in decent numbers because we never got the Skyline in the states. But we have the NSX already, it just doesn't have a Honda badge on it.

 

[Famine]

I don't know if you can really find a true "Honda" NSX here in the states, since there is really no reason to import one.

Rarity value.

I'd put money on there being at least a couple hundred Japanese VIN Honda NSXs in North America. And they're far more likely to retain value or appreciate.

 

[oskierox]

Eh, the RX-8 is kind of boring to drive everyday. And as you said it isn't really even that fast, and the traction control is just too intrusive. Yes it has 4 doors but good luck even getting an 8yo kid in the back--those pictures do not show where the front seats are when adults drive them. They go much further back. The boot is small and it is noisy on the inside--as in harshly noisy. The ride is pretty damn rough too, yes it's a sports car but Jesus it's rough. Plus the seats are not comfortable for an adult male over 5'11" tall and 200lbs either. After 20 minutes my legs hurt quite annoyingly. It isn't made for long road trips either--at least not if you want a soft grand tourer. My fiancee bought one, yay. I wouldn't. Great car for her, not so much for me. The performance is just too lacking to even be a good compromise. Yes it handles pretty good around corners but it doesn't really impress me. I'd rather buy a Legacy GT, 335i, TL Type-S or Maxima SE 6spd. Those are better compromises. My $0.02.

I own one, I'm 5'11, 185 pounds. Yeah it can be rough in the wrong areas, but its actually not THAT bad compared to other cars too, and driving it everyday is just amazing. Its not the most powerful, but you dont realize that when you are actually going along, the throttle response is amazing and you're never left really desiring more to be honest. Obviously if you've tried other sports cars which are quicker then maybe you'll notice its a bit down on power but you dont when you are just happy driving the 8. And as for the seats, I just got back yesterday from a 2 hour drive over to a college down in Texas, one stop for a slurpee at a gas station but I never felt uncomfortable when I got there and I was happy around some tight and twisty roads

If you're not looking for a stick, then get an RX-8 sport with paddles which can be both automatic or tiptronic with paddles or clutchfree manual at the stick 👍

But the 8 is the way to go especially since 01-04 Maserati Coupes are just unbearable, especially their gearboxes , as for the Gransports from around 06-08, those are spectacular, but you'll struggle to find one less than 48K$

 

[Danoff]

Why let perfectionism ruin your driving life?
[snip]
When you leave work, you should be able to relax, burn an extra cent or 2 of gas 'cos you feel like suddenly doing 0 - 60 in as quick a time as possible, or leaving a little extra rubber on the road without worrying about the cost.

I actually don't worry about rubber or gas nearly as much as synchros and clutch. Partially because they're less expensive, and partially because I figure there's just no way to avoid consuming them. The transmission is, to an extent, within my control. The better I am at driving, the more I can preserve it. It's a direct link between driving mistakes and wear. I actually feel like the transmission is unique in that regard.

When I owned my RSX I floored it, I redlined it, I squealed the tires, and I abused the brakes. But I also tried to preserve wear that I didn't enjoy by driving slowly over, or completely around, speedbumps, and rev-matching as much as possible.

There's something theoretical about all of this too. I like the purity of the DSG over a stick. The stick represents a poor control design to me. If you have to dance around with 2 feet trying to make them 3, while moving levers with one hand, steering with the other, and doing it all with precision, I feel like you've failed at creating a good set of controls. It should be simple and elegant, not the mess that it is. The DSG makes the transmission interface much closer to what it should be. A quick easy decision about the appropriate gear. The change should be instant, precise, and non-disruptive. I'd take it a step further and suggest that driving really shouldn't have anything to do with selecting a gear, but it DEFINITELY shouldn't have anything to do with operating a clutch - which, to ask you to operate, is a mechanical engineering cop-out.

The NSX may become a rare car and collectable and valuable but there's no way to tell.

It seems that cars that represented something, are unique, or elicit nostalgia are the ones that do well. Given the amount of love the NSX still gets, I can't see it being a loser when it's old. In the meantime, I have a car that would still be a lot of fun.

The reason my buddy who collects cars is recommending the NSX to me is not just because it'll appreciate, but he knows what kinds of cars I'm into and sees this as an opportunity for me to get a collectible that I'll enjoy. I'm sure he would say that there are better cars for collection, but he would also say that he doesn't collect cars he doesn't love - and he knows I have a soft spot for the NSX.

 

[homeforsummer]

and he knows I have a soft spot for the NSX.

I think this is the nub of it - essentially if you're going for the sensible car/sports car mix, it makes sense getting something you really want for the sports car.

Whether an NSX appreciates or not, if you really want one, get it. I don't know whether you personally consider it a "dream car", but I don't think that many of us here would pass up an opportunity to buy their dream car, and if you don't buy one now then fifteen years down the line there's no guarantee you'll be able to afford one then...

 

[Famine]

I have a very soft - and occasionally reasonably firm - spot for the NSX but it is still a mass-produced car. There are, for example, more NSXs around than Mk4 Supras (and by some margin) and rarity does more often beget antiquity than ability does (though the NSX has managed 3 Super GT championships and a class win at Le Mans, which few other mass-produced Japanese cars can come even close to). The NSXs likely to attract a future premium are the limited-run ones - the Zanardi or NSX-R, for example - as with many current classics. Take Smallhorses' 911 as an example. It's a classic car and still attracts interest, but it's worth less in real terms than it was 30 years since. A Carrera RS from the same year is worth twice what it was new in real terms.


Ironically, the NSX is exactly the kind of car that would benefit from a manual over a DSG - an engine that needs revving and a friendly-ratioed gearbox to multiply torque to a usable level at the wheels. I had a situation in Belgium on Thursday in a similar car - our Accord Type-R - where a DSG 'box would have left me floundering, but the manual allowed me to block shift with a quick double declutch (not wholly necessary, but it preserves the synchros and sounds great) had me accelerating into a gap I had fractions of a second to assess.

In terms of changing from one gear to the next, manual is long-since dead. But I can get from 5th to 2nd quicker than any automated gearbox on Earth, and I'm a mong.

Whether an NSX appreciates or not, if you really want one, get it. I don't know whether you personally consider it a "dream car", but I don't think that many of us here would pass up an opportunity to buy their dream car, and if you don't buy one now then fifteen years down the line there's no guarantee you'll be able to afford one then...

This. But I wouldn't be banking on it as an investment. Even if you'd be willing to part with it in 2030.

 

[Keef]

This. But I wouldn't be banking on it as an investment. Even if you'd be willing to part with it in 2030.

I wouldn't bank on the car for the simple reason that it's so good to drive you'll want to put mile after mile on it. That wears the mechanicals, wears the paint, wears the interior, wears the resale value. If you want to invest then buy something old and terrible, not the greatest car you ever have or maybe ever will drive.

 

[slidesquad#1]

I've never understood the point of owning a car and not driving it. Why not just put the money in the bank and earn interest? Quite a bit safer than hoping your car is one of the few that appreciate in value.

I've nearly put as many kms on the Evo as I have on my daily Capella over the last two years. Sometimes I feel guilty about that, but at the same time, I bought the car to drive it, not look at it in the garage.

If you want something that you're going to genuinely enjoy everytime you get into it, get an NSX. If you want something that'll give you the greatest return after 20 years, I think there are better investments than cars.

 

[Danoff]

I've never understood the point of owning a car and not driving it.

That's not my intention (but I can understand the point for collectors).

If you want something that you're going to genuinely enjoy everytime you get into it, get an NSX. If you want something that'll give you the greatest return after 20 years, I think there are better investments than cars.

You're trying to separate money from the decision of which car to buy, and they're not separable. I could tell you that if you want to have money - get a job that pays a lot. If you want a car that you'll genuinely enjoy, buy a Veyron.

If I remove money from this decision entirely, I'd buy something very expensive that had a sequential gearbox. But instead I have to weigh the car that I really want against a car that's pretty damned good but that represents a stronger financial position.

In the end, I don't want a car that I'm not going to drive... and I think I'd probably not drive the NSX nearly as much as a porsche or some other car. That should rule the NSX out, but I have enough of an attachment to the NSX that I still can't let it go. I guess I need to find some way to drive one - not sure what that's going to be.

 

[Kylehnat]

The stick represents a poor control design to me. If you have to dance around with 2 feet trying to make them 3, while moving levers with one hand, steering with the other, and doing it all with precision, I feel like you've failed at creating a good set of controls. It should be simple and elegant, not the mess that it is.
...
it DEFINITELY shouldn't have anything to do with operating a clutch - which, to ask you to operate, is a mechanical engineering cop-out.

Maybe so, but the manual box is one thing that automakers haven't dumbed down and/or taken from us. Steering? Is there still a mechanical connection? I can't tell...the power system is too strong. Brakes? Push as hard as you like...the ABS will do it's thing. Throttle? Why do you want a cable when we can do it with a computer? Sure, the stickshift now benefits from synchros and helical gears, but it's still basically the same system that was introduced on cars 110 years ago. Call me crazy, but I love the sheer crudeness of a manual transmission. I don't care that I can now buy a car that can shift quicker than me...I want control of that rotating box full of metal teeth. For me, it's about driving enjoyment, and autoboxes, no matter how good, just don't do it for me.

This really isn't relevant to this thread...I just had to say that. Carry on .

 

[JCE]

*snip*Its not the most powerful, but you dont realize that when you are actually going along, the throttle response is amazing and you're never left really desiring more to be honest. *snip*

Actually, I do. The car is not one bit fast and has a terrible throttle response. The automatic with the flappy paddles is just bleh, I find it lacking and the delay in which I tell it to shift and it actually changing gears is an eternity! It has about ~2,500 usable rev range and it is all the way at the top and by the time the car actually wakes up it's time to shift and bleh it's all gone again. I took her car out for a drive and used the flappy paddles and I made a point not to look at the tach and went to the floor with the throttle until the car started to act sporty and I was "yea here this is getting..." and next thing I know I was bouncing off the rev limiter and used the paddle to change gear and the car shifted--then the power just died. I feel disconnected with the car, and it having an electronic throttle doesn't help either. The steering is the only positive thing I like about the car other than it's a Mazda. The steering is sharp and precise.

I'm just not at all thrilled at the performance. I'm dead serious when I say that an Si, SRT-4 and my SVT Focus are better sports cars than the RX-8. And they aren't even "sports cars" technically. And just so people know if you have a short commute or don't have any real space to open up the RPMs to above 5,500 you will kill your RX-8. It is not an easy car to live with if you don't drive the nuts off of it. I'm happy you love your 8 and I'm happy my fiancée loves her 8--I just don't care for it as a sports car. I've driven better Japanese sports cars that will run laps around the 8. And that includes it's grand daddy the RX-7. I'd strongly recommend an S2000 a billion times more than the RX-8. More power, more revs, more boot space, more comfortable and actually behaves like a sports car should all around. Yes the 8 handles well, but so does my SVT, SRT-4 and more importantly the S2000 which I recommend to someone looking for a Japanese sports car.

I just do not think it is a good daily commuter or sports car. It doesn't do either particularly well. You know what could solve the RX-8's problem in a nutshell?

THIS:

Please don't take my comments personally, they aren't intended to be.

 

[McLaren]

Rarity value.

I'd put money on there being at least a couple hundred Japanese VIN Honda NSXs in North America. And they're far more likely to retain value or appreciate.

And they're probably retailing for stupid amounts of money & it wouldn't surprise me if they were a Type-S or Type-R. If you're going to spend the money to import a JDM NSX, might as well go for the big ones.

Finding a good NSX is hard enough, as you've noted. No point in trying to get the best one because someone's going to want big bucks for it. If anything, Dan should just look for one that's got decent miles that show it was only driven on certain days.

 

[Rotary Junkie]

JCE: Autobox RX-8s are awful... Long, wide-spread gears, narrower powerband, less revs.

The manual is an entirely different story; Wind it out and you're still making power in the next gear, mostly because you've got close enough gearing and a long enough rev range to actually keep it in its happy place.

 

[Keef]

JCE: Autobox RX-8s are awful... Long, wide-spread gears, narrower powerband, less revs.

The manual is an entirely different story; Wind it out and you're still making power in the next gear, mostly because you've got close enough gearing and a long enough rev range to actually keep it in its happy place.

Right, the automatic has fewer revs and a lot less power than the stick. Plus, it's an automatic.

 

[JCE]

I hope the manual is a different beast because the automatic flappy paddle gearbox is leaving a bad taste in my mouth. Still, the electronic throttle is still retarded.

Also, didn't the manual have 239bhp instead of the 212bhp that's in the autos? Or am I remembering this incorrectly? I'm not joking when I tell you that my SVT Focus would seriously take this thing (my Fiancée's auto RX-8) easy from the lights.

 

[Rotary Junkie]

Yep, 238 or so is the "new" rating.

The autobox is awful. And I think a lot of the handling difference is down to the tires; the Shinka I was in exhibited nearly none of the harshness and noise you were complaining about earlier in here; probably a fairly crap set of tires on the 8 and a nice set on the SVT making the SVT feel so much nicer.

 

[JCE]

Yep, 238 or so is the "new" rating.

The autobox is awful. And I think a lot of the handling difference is down to the tires; the Shinka I was in exhibited nearly none of the harshness and noise you were complaining about earlier in here; probably a fairly crap set of tires on the 8 and a nice set on the SVT making the SVT feel so much nicer.

I just went out and looked and the fronts are Bridgestone Potenza's (very good tire) and the rears are (*gasp*) General Evertrek's on her 8. My SVT has some Bridgestones--don't remember what type since the car is at the dealership I can't go look.

 

[niky]

I just went out and looked and the fronts are Bridgestone Potenza's (very good tire) and the rears are (*gasp*) General Evertrek's on her 8. My SVT has some Bridgestones--don't remember what type since the car is at the dealership I can't go look.

She likes drifting, I guess?

 

[slidesquad#1]

That's not my intention (but I can understand the point for collectors).



You're trying to separate money from the decision of which car to buy, and they're not separable. I could tell you that if you want to have money - get a job that pays a lot. If you want a car that you'll genuinely enjoy, buy a Veyron.

If I remove money from this decision entirely, I'd buy something very expensive that had a sequential gearbox. But instead I have to weigh the car that I really want against a car that's pretty damned good but that represents a stronger financial position.

In the end, I don't want a car that I'm not going to drive... and I think I'd probably not drive the NSX nearly as much as a porsche or some other car. That should rule the NSX out, but I have enough of an attachment to the NSX that I still can't let it go. I guess I need to find some way to drive one - not sure what that's going to be.

I'm not trying to remove the money aspect at all. My point was that in my opinion, getting an NSX not for its abilities as a car, but rather for

Now, you might have noticed that I slipped the NSX into that list and that it doesn't have a DSG. That's because somewhere in the back of my mind I can't get over the notion of sacrificing my one-single requirement (the DSG) for a car that could appreciate a lot over the next 20 years. I know a guy who has 30+ cars and has made over a million dollars owning them who is strongly urging me to pick up an NSX.

doesn't seem to be the way to go. If the financial appreciation thing is secondary to you actually thinking the car is awesome, by all means get one and drive the wheels off it.

 

[Danoff]

Does anyone know if the 2-tone paint was the only stock option?

 

[Famine]

I think the Acuras were only two-tone (unless you got a black one!), yes.

And they're probably retailing for stupid amounts of money & it wouldn't surprise me if they were a Type-S or Type-R. If you're going to spend the money to import a JDM NSX, might as well go for the big ones.

Finding a good NSX is hard enough, as you've noted. No point in trying to get the best one because someone's going to want big bucks for it. If anything, Dan should just look for one that's got decent miles that show it was only driven on certain days.

Nevertheless, that's the deal with trying to predict future bankers - get it as rare as possible, get it as stock as possible, keep it pristine as possible and drive it as little as possible. If you're going to dunk one of the four - driving it, in this case - you need to keep polishing it, replace parts only OEM to OEM and get a rare one in the first place. If there's one Honda NSX to every 40 Acura NSXs in North America now, there'll be the same number in 30 years, and you'll be wanting the Honda to maximise your return.

 

[Danoff]

I think the Acuras were only two-tone (unless you got a black one!), yes.

You imply that the Honda might not have been...

Nevertheless, that's the deal with trying to predict future bankers - get it as rare as possible, get it as stock as possible, keep it pristine as possible and drive it as little as possible. If you're going to dunk one of the four - driving it, in this case - you need to keep polishing it, replace parts only OEM to OEM and get a rare one in the first place. If there's one Honda NSX to every 40 Acura NSXs in North America now, there'll be the same number in 30 years, and you'll be wanting the Honda to maximise your return.

Unless the Honda is out of my price range.

 

[JCE]

Does anyone know if the 2-tone paint was the only stock option?

Actually, I believe the two-tone was only for a couple of years. 1995 is the first year where the two-tone is gone. At least this is my distant memory of it.

 

[Keef]

Oh, and keep in mind that if you want a pre-1993 NSX you're going to have to deal with an R12 aircon system. Pray it works perfectly.

According to this Wiki all roofs became body color for the 1995 model year. Previously they were all black, except on green cars where the roof became body color after the ninth green car, unit 0031. After that all greens were body color.

Man I sound like a pro now lol.

 

[Famine]

You imply that the Honda might not have been...

Indeed - apart from the lightweight models, I don't recall a two-tone Honda NSX.

Unless the Honda is out of my price range.

Which will be a bugger, certainly.

That's not to say that a nice-looking, standard car won't attract a premium, but a rare version of the nice-looking, standard car will (probably) attract more of one, and a rare version, low mileage example of a nice-looking, standard car even moreso.

 

[McLaren]

Nevertheless, that's the deal with trying to predict future bankers - get it as rare as possible, get it as stock as possible, keep it pristine as possible and drive it as little as possible. If you're going to dunk one of the four - driving it, in this case - you need to keep polishing it, replace parts only OEM to OEM and get a rare one in the first place. If there's one Honda NSX to every 40 Acura NSXs in North America now, there'll be the same number in 30 years, and you'll be wanting the Honda to maximise your return.

No argument, there. But as dan just touched on, it's more than likely out of his range. A good NSX still retails for what? $30K average? I can only imagine a genuine Honda one would be worth another $10K due to rarity.

 

[Famine]

I honestly wouldn't know. Last I checked they were bottoming at £15k over here, with prices right through from that to just-about-new.

Of course, the Honda will also be RHD unless you got a European one...

 

[YSSMAN]

No argument, there. But as dan just touched on, it's more than likely out of his range. A good NSX still retails for what? $30K average? I can only imagine a genuine Honda one would be worth another $10K due to rarity.

The last two NSX models I saw for sale, both were Acuras, had stickers above $70K. Seems like one was a 2001 Targa and the other was a slightly older Hardtop. Both had less than 30K on the clock, and both seemed to be pretty well maintained.

...Before that, the last used NSX I came across was a pretty early model, a 1992 or 1993, in red. I have no idea what the mileage was, but they were asking $24K on the dealer lot at the time, and that was about 2007 or so.

Perhaps this article from Car and Driver would be helpful?

Most Fun for $25,000 : 1991-1994 Acura NSX

As a testament to just how far Honda pushed the envelope with its 1991 Acura NSX, compare it with the most sophisticated machinery of today. That first NSX’s 3.0-liter V-6 made 270 horsepower and revved gloriously to its 8000-rpm redline. Almost 18 years later, BMW’s direct-injection 3.0-liter (in the Euro-only 330i) makes 268 horsepower.

The NSX’s lightweight aluminum sheetmetal surrounds a fascinating 3000-pound wedge that still looks fresh today (if you don’t count the tiny 15- and 16-inch wheels). Combined with first-rate comfort and ergonomics, and a docile, aluminum-intensive unequal-length control-arm suspension, it’s easy to see how the NSX quickly won our hearts as well as a distinguished victory over a Porsche 911, a Corvette ZR-1, and a Ferrari 348ts in a 1990 comparison test.

Having purchased this Formula Red example new in December 1990, it’s safe to say Ken Sax (which he amusingly writes “keN SaX&#8221 of Evanston, Illinois, is quite familiar with his 78,000-mile car as he’s exercised it to the tune of 13,000 on-track miles. The car has held up well, mostly needing replacement of such predictable items as worn brake pads (25 front sets, 16 rears thus far) and chewed-up tires, although his NSX suffered a rare catastrophic engine failure caused by a broken harmonic-balancer pulley that led to a jump of the timing belt. Sax replaced the engine with a $4500 used one, which was the cheapest fix.

We all were impressed at how solid and modern his NSX felt. Sure, there were a few squeaks and rattles, but it rides forgivingly, is quiet, and still feels structurally sound. Sax’s car does have some minor scuffs in the interior and noticeable wear on the seat bolsters, which is common.

The manual steering is just as alive as we remembered, its on-track poise is phenomenal, and the five-speed manual’s short, precise throws are still a benchmark. Sure, a 0-to-60-mph time of 5.2 seconds doesn’t qualify as blazing anymore, but the flexible engine absolutely wails above 6000 rpm. We nominate it as the best-sounding V-6 ever.

From 1991 until it was discontinued in 2005, the NSX’s price ballooned from $60,600 to $89,765, even though it evolved very little. A targa model was added for ’95; a 290-hp, 3.2-liter V-6 and a six-speed manual were new for ’97; and the NSX got a fixed-headlight face lift for 2002. The ’97-and-newer cars still fetch $40,000 to $50,000, while the ’91–94 models have held steady in the range of $25,000 to $35,000 for almost 10 years.

By exotic-car standards, NSX ownership is painless, but there are a number of known problem areas—a faulty transmission snap ring and fragile power-window regulators on ’91 and ’92 models, as well as a history of rapid tire wear. So do your homework first. Be especially wary of the service history, as many lower-mile examples haven’t kept up with recommended maintenance such as timing-belt replacement. Fortunately, www.nsxprime.com houses a strong and knowledgeable owners’ community and is bursting with information.

The NSX was truly an exotic turned everyday friendly. It’s no wonder owners of these inexpensive, high-mileage cars are so enthusiastic. — Dave VanderWerp

Operating Costs: 1/5
Curb Appeal: 5/5
Fun to Drive: 5/5

Of the high performance cars of the time, chances are that the NSX is most-collectible. Perhaps the only car of the era that I know of that normally exceeds it is the ZR-1.

 

[Danoff]

Still thinking about the NSX. I've discovered that 2nd gear can get you to 90 mph, so I shouldn't actually need to do any shifting at all on my favorite driving road. The only downside of that is that I'd probably occasionally want to grab 1st on that road to power out of a low speed turn - and I probably will refuse to do so. I used to run the RSX almost exclusively in 2nd gear on that same road, and the RSX tops out at 60ish mph in 2nd. I'd occasionally grab 3rd, and due to the poor low-end torque I'd often find myself waiting for the car to turn on the juice coming from low speed turns - but I think the NSX might have me covered with one very tall gear. For freeway driving the deal is different of course, but shifting isn't as important there.

Another issue with the NSX is the 2-tone paint. I don't think I could handle that, so I'd need to pick one up that was a single color (custom paint or black) or paint it myself. Another issue is that the car is a bit flashier than I wanted to go. I think red or yellow would be out of the question. So I either have to find a silver/blue one or paint it myself. Not sure what a custom paint job does for a "collectible" car. The other issue is wheels. I'd want a set of the OEM wheels and I'd keep them around, but I can't see ever driving the car with those on. So if I picked up an NSX and it didn't come with decent custom wheels, I'd have to buy some. Basically the one I want has already been posted in this thread.

That's hot.

Custom paint and custom rims add to the price and possibly paint detracts from resale.