Help! My Falcon XR8 is trying to kill me!

  • Thread starter Bulldozer
  • 51 comments
  • 4,110 views
Duke, it does in GT4. It even states it at the discription in GT3 that you can change the weight distribution with the ride heights. In GT4, my Legacy used to understeer like crazy, but putting the front ride height 10 clicks lower than the rear, and it did better in turning while braking too. :cool: I haven't tested this in GT3, due to the fact that there isn't much understeer in GT3 as GT4.
 
That's dynamic, not static, and so it's transfer, not distribution. Distribution has to do with how the weight of the car is divided between all four wheels when the car is at a steady state.
 
Spring rates - 12 front and back.
Ride height - 10 clicks above lowest ride height available front and back.
5 front 4 rear
9 front 8 rear
Camber - 4.0 front 1.0 rear
No toe angles
Stabilizers 5 front and back.

Downforce 1.00 front and 1.15 rear

LSD 40/30/30

That cured some of my problems, but all RWD cars spin out easy with 950HP, these just reduce the spin out probability a little bit.
 
I haven't been using this car that much lately, in fact I've mostly been driving cars in the 300 - 400 hp range where I feel a little more in control. But TuneRVisioN ofered some settings and I wanted to try them out. They're working pretty well for me. I did my testing in the Pro League GT World Championship, against cars like the 787B, the R-390, and the GT-one. I raced ten laps on the Special Stage Route 5 (reverse) course, because it has some tight turns, and that's where I was having the most trouble.

I didn't make all the changes at once. I wanted to change a few things and see if I could tell the difference. I started out with my old settings, but I turned off TCS (I never use ASM and I'm trying to stop using TCS too). I started on T5's and I'm at 796 hp (stage 2 turbo).

First run was a disaster, but mainly because I haven't been on this course in a while. The main problem I had with the car was that the tires just lit up in 2nd, 3rd and sometimes even 4th gear. I was trying to be light on the joystick, but I just seemed to be giving it too much gas coming out of turns. Result was that I got sideways a lot, and in one case the AI gave me a good nudge and I did a cool 540 degree spin.

Second run I changed all the suspension settings. It's a large number of things to change, but most of the settings were pretty close to where I was starting from. I had the same problems, but I don't think they're related to settings - it's more about the throttle coming out of turns.

I decide that for this particluar car, I need TCS. 2 clicks worth and it made a huge difference. Not just straight line accel, but also coming out of turns. I also made the gears a little shorter, which let me take more turns in 3rd instead of dropping all the way to 2nd.

Increasing the downforce helped on the wider turns, but not much on the really tight ones. Just what you'd expect.

Fifth run (if I counted right) and I changed the LSD. Here's my current theory on LSD and oversteer: An open (lower values) LSD won't cause oversteer, but it won't prevent it either, because an open differential doesn't care if your left and right wheels are turning at different speeds. At worst, the inside wheel will spin and waste your power, making you slow on corner exit.
A locked differential (higher values) might help prevent oversteer, because it won't allow the left and right wheels to turn at wildly different rates, and that'll reduce the rear slip angle.
BUT too much lock, and you might light up both rear tires, and then you'll have even more oversteer with no warning or transition. In fact, you might end up drifting.

What do you LSD experts say? Does that make sense or am I way off?

In any case, TuneRVisioN's LSD setting really seemed to help keep this car under control. But there's one problem - it seems to increase the turning radius, even if I'm going really slow. Maybe the settings are just a little too high.

I back off to 40/20/20 but that didn't seem to make much difference. But it's kind of a minor issue since the car is doing much better. In fact, I'm coming in 3rd in the race these last couple runs. :)

At this point I abandon the scientific approach and mess up my experiment by switching to T2 tires. None of the fast cars are making pit stops and I want to actually win the race before I call it a night. I come in second to the 787B.

Next race (must be attempt 9 or 10) I get a line-up without the 787B and finally take first place. That'll have to be good enough. I'm sick of this track and it's late.

But thanks for the help, TuneRVisioN! I know you and Duke were talking about the LSD earlier in the thread but I ended up backing off on those settings. I had this idea that too high a setting would "kick out" the back end, I'm not sure what I was thinking. I'm still a little mystified when it comes to tuning the LSD.
 
Glad to help. Let me know whenever you need settings, and I can post a few, the XR8 setup took so long because I had a bit of trouble making 1,585,000 for the car and tuning. I now have 4 million. So just post whenever you are having trouble with a certain car. :cool:

The XR8 has so much power fully modded, that you can do stand still burnouts with it without TCS. Just rev the engine all the way, holding square and X, then let go of square, then immediately hold square again. This shows the amazing power of the XR8.

I gave you sort of strong LSD settings, because I didn't want you having too much trouble with this car. Atleast you don't have to worry about spinning the inside wheel, but now spinning both of the rear wheels. ;)

I don't really understand LSD's either. I mean the Dodge Viper GTS-R Concept has the LSD settings at all 60 stock, but it doesn't burnout while accelerating, or even drift, unless you are on SSR5 with wet surfaces. I'm confused, lowering the stock LSD that this viper came with only made it drift more. :confused:
 
Funny how different cars have different settings. If you buy a FC suspension or FC LSD for a car, the settings are always the same. Well, maybe ride height and spring rates vary, but the dampers are always 8/8/8/8. But the GTS-R concept has LSD settings of 60/60/60!? Maybe the original car had a locked differential and they wanted to simulate that. (I tried Google, but couldn't find out about the GTS-R differential.)

I didn't notice what the Falcon's default LSD settings were. Maybe I'll buy one, check it out, and just exit without saving the game.

I might have been too quick to blame the LSD for my "reduced turning radius." Maybe I was going faster than I thought or maybe I was getting understeer from orange front tires. Next time I play I'm going to try to test that. I'll look for a track with a big open area where I can run some low-speed circles with different LSD settings.


Edit to correct something: I think the default dampers are actually 7/7/7/7.
 
The stock LSD for the falcon is 10/40/20 if I remember correctly.

The Viper came with a LSD with those settings, meaning I didn't pay a penny for it.

Another cool find is that the Subaru Impreza STi Premium Coupe 22B comes with a VCD controller, adjustable from 35/65 torque distribution, to 50/50 torque distribution.

The Street versions of the Mitsubishi Lancer Evolution came with adjustable downforce, LSD, and I think that was it. PD seems to have more time for each car in GT3, since there wasn't too many cars here. They put more work into the cars, especially the sound, and the performance stock. I think the TVR Speed 12 comes with rear downforce here, since it always do wheelies when you jump at a high speed, even with a V12 at the front. This is why GT4 didn't do so good in the sound department, because of all the cars and the PS2 limited capabilities. I'm sure PD would've put more work into GT4 if it weren't for that.

I think all race cars (except rally cars) have the same suspension settings, but just different ratios. The LSD settings are different when installed on a FF or 4WD car, as I am looking forward to checking out exactly what the settings are.

Bulldozer
I'll look for a track with a big open area where I can run some low-speed circles with different LSD settings.
Ever thought about breaking out? 💡

Each car you drive, even stock street cars, have stock ratios, and they can be viewed at the settings area. Doing this help me know exactly what the AC Cobra 427 S/C in GT4 ratios were, but the Shelby cobra version had a much higher final gear ratio, meaning I had to lower it to make the exact ratios.

Also in GT3, you get to view the AI's tire wear, stock downforce of a car, (Like say the Nissan Skyline GT-R R33 and R34, which both has adjustable downforce) and more. (They forgot to add downforce for the Lotus Motorsport Elise.) Imagine if GT4 had all this on top of what it has now. There would be alot more people that would be less bored with it.

There is alot of hidden things in GT3, and I just thought I would let you guys know some of them. :)
 
CNG
The stock LSD for the falcon is 10/40/20 if I remember correctly.
You're right. I just checked it out.
CNG
Another cool find is that the Subaru Impreza STi Premium Coupe 22B comes with a VCD controller, adjustable from 35/65 torque distribution, to 50/50 torque distribution.
VCD seems like a handy gadget for 4WD cars, maybe after I master LSD (more like 'give up in frustration') I'll start experimenting with VCD.
CNG
Ever thought about breaking out? 💡
Well, I haven't had a reason to before, but now maybe I do.

And I tried some tight circles in the straightaway at Laguna Seca. I was only going 20-30 mph. With the LSD at 60/60/60 I didn't notice much difference until I got above 25 mph. And then it was just as if the turning radius suddenly got much larger. Same thing on the actual course. I noticed it most on the last turn - even at slow speeds it would just run wide.

It felt a little different than regular understeer. By 'regular understeer' I mean the front wheels are turned and trying to steer, but the rear wheels are just pushing you straight anyway. This was, as I said before, as if my turning radius simply got larger.

I tried the Falcon and a Team Oreca Viper with different settings on Special Stage Route 11, and came to a very strong conclusion: I 🤬 HATE SSR 11. And that goes double for the reverse version. :banghead:

But back to LSD - I still think that higher values, esp. for accel, will help prevent oversteer when you come out of a turn. The trade-off is that, the higher the LSD setting, the wider the turning radius. And wide turn radius at SSR 11 is a Bad Thing.

Did I mention I 🤬 hate SSR 11?
 
Man after my own heart. Actually, though, I came to almost like the reverse version while driving a Lotus Esprit around it. That bordered on fun. otherwise, I've disliked every race I've ever run there. I didn't miss it when it was left out of GT4.
 
Route 11 rocks, you guys are crazy.

Seriously, it's never been one of my favorites. I raced there maybe 15 times in my GT1 days; did the reverse direction maybe once (if that) to complete the enduro. But it's just like any other track; takes loads of practice. Braking and turning points are (of course) crucial--but if you watch the Ai, they never get SSR11 right! There is not one single race in GT3 in which the ai has mastered the course without touching or even slamming walls. Like I've said before, this makes it very possible to learn their mistakes and get past them at opportune times. 👍

Show some R11 luuuuv guys!
 
Last edited:
Route 11 rocks, you guys are crazy.

Seriously, it's never been one of my favorites. I raced there maybe 15 times in my gT1 days; did the reverse direction maybe once (if that) to complete the enduro. But it's just like any other track; takes loads of practice. Braking and turning points are (of course) crucial--but if you watch the Ai, they never get SSR11 right! There is not one single race in gt3 in which the ai has mastered the course without touching or even slamming walls. LLike i've said before, this makes it very possible to learn their mistakes and get past them at opportune times. 👍

Show some R11 luuuuv guys!

I love SSR11, I usually take my Honda Civic Type-R EK9 out for a spin, with tire wear on with Professional mode in Arcade mode. (Hold R1 and L1 for Professional Difficulty.) It leads to close, fun races, and pit strategy. You have to carve every corner perfect to stay in the lead, as you are in a car with less power than some of the opposition. Since this board is a technical course, you need to carve the corners, or the AI will be after you. Remember they will catch up to you on the straights. There is also the Rubber-Band AI to keep races close and fun, even if it is not realistic. The AI can do SSR11 when they are in a Mini Cooper 1.3i atleast. :)

I now know the difference in SSR11 between GT1 and GT3. I see the GT1 SSR11 in GT3 when I broke out to the inside of the track. I see what you guys were talking about, it seems to be way better, even if it wasn't completely visible, since PD don't really worry about the graphics when you break out.

Remember, it is all about braking late with this car, and the famous "Out, In, Out" sequence. (Stop thinking negative. :guilty:)
 
I'm pretty cool with SSR11. I racall the race with the Clio being especially tough there, but one of the most satisfying. I think I lost it in the series but went back to win it later. I am using a wheel and pedals, so I am able to put down the power more gradually, which is pretty important through all the hairpins. Rome Reverse is my least favorite. I still have a tough time with that last corner leading onto the main straight. It comes up so fast and there's nothing I've been able to locate for a decent turn-in reference point.
 
I'm pretty cool with SSR11. I racall the race with the Clio being especially tough there, but one of the most satisfying. I think I lost it in the series but went back to win it later. I am using a wheel and pedals, so I am able to put down the power more gradually, which is pretty important through all the hairpins. Rome Reverse is my least favorite. I still have a tough time with that last corner leading onto the main straight. It comes up so fast and there's nothing I've been able to locate for a decent turn-in reference point.

The trick to the final corner at Rome II is (for me) little to no brakes. I would usually be on the far right hand side with my right tires running a bit on the red & white curbing as I approached the turn. Then at some point before you even see the upcoming left-hand sweeper (I forget exactly where but it varies with how fast you're going anyways), you start turning left, sometimes with a tap on the brakes, and try to "aim" for the guardrails on the left. Usually I could do this while keeping up my speed. Most cars naturally want to understeer a bit here so if I got it right I wouldn't have to slow down, and wouldn't hit the inside guardrail....instead it's the outside guardrail (on the right hand side) that I'd have to avoid at the last second.

The apex here is a small area of red/white curbing on the inside of the turn. If my inner tires ran over this area for a split second, I knew I was safe....it's incredibly difficult to get right and I'm sorry I can't remember the exact point for the initial turn-in.

I'll admit I didn't always get this right...maybe 1/4th of the time I'd wind up tapping that outside wall/guardrail; but most of the time the Ai does, too. 💡 Anyways, it takes practice--a blind corner for sure.
 
Last edited:
I think you are better off using all the curbing on the right side, since curbing makes you get a good amount of oversteer, then you cut through narrowly missing the left wall on the left curbing, then end up on the right side of the track, that is of course the famous out, in, out sequence. It's a tricky corner to master reverse, but easy when done forwards.
 
I think you are better off using all the curbing on the right side, since curbing makes you get a good amount of oversteer, then you cut through narrowly missing the left wall on the left curbing, then end up on the right side of the track, that is of course the famous out, in, out sequence. It's a tricky corner to master reverse, but easy when done forwards.

That's what I was saying...you start on the right hand side with your right tires on the curbing. You may or may not need to brake (depends on car & how fast you're going) at some point you sweep in and turn left; letting the car's natural understeer carry you so that you narrowly miss the guardrail on the left hand side. Then you'll wind up heading towards the guardrail on the right. If you're not going too fast, you wind up narrowly missing this guardrail, too.
 
Last edited:
racerfink, I'm not sure when you joined us here at GTP, but welcome aboard! It's always nice to have somebody with real world vehicle dynamics experience. Please join in as much as you can. That being said, I want to question one of your comments below:

Are you talking GT3 or real life, here? From what I know (autocross experience, and hanging/crewing for a number of Neon racers from back in the day), it seems to me that softer setups would require more negative camber in order to counteract the chassis roll. Maybe it's just a suspension geometry difference in specific cars, but Neons want to run as much negative camber (in front) as will make it through the tech shed. Typical specs for a Neon would be -2.4 in front (maximum legal in SS) and anywhere from zero to -1.0 in back. Most of the guys I know (including a couple Chrysler chassis engineers who also race) say that the Neon just keeps handling better and better until you get to -3.0 to -3.5 in front... it's just illegal in most classes to run it that radical.





Sorry I didn't address this earlier. Was playing around with the search and this came up. I definitely mean in the game. It just seems to me that the cars have better cornering grip with less negative camber on soft springs, when compared to high negative camber settings on soft springs. It might just be that the less negative camber takes longer to react to my morse code driving style with the d-pad, making it 'feel' smoother.
 
I got the falcon and it handles like BS. When I go around corners at less than 80 kph, the rear tires spin like mad and swing the rear end and spin me out, and its too hard to avoid. Any settings to counter this please ?
 
i hate you.


JK. :) Thanks for the ideas, everybody.

I was thinking about this. Maybe I'm doing too much trail braking and it breaks loose early in the corner. I just don't notice it 'cause the car happens to be sliding in the same direction I'm steering. Then when I try to straighten out - nothing happens and I crash through the fence running over spectators again.

But I still think the thing's possessed. I switched to the Corvette C5R, similar hp, but it behaves much better (for me). If I give it too much gas and the rear end starts to slide, I just left of the gas, or countersteer, and it straightens out pretty nicely.

BTW, if anyone is curious, I think this is the setup I was using: http://gtvault.com/gt3/setup-view/s_sid::2390/Tickford-Falcon-XR8-Race-Car/
I just backed off a little on camber and toe settings:
Springs 11.9 / 10.7
Ride Ht 85/85
Shock Bound 4/4
Shock Rebound 8/8 ( <--- As Duke suggests, I might change it to 8/6 next time)
Camber angle 2.1/1.0
stabilizer 3/3
brake balance 9/10
downforce 1.00/.96
Toe Angle -0.5/0.5
LSD 20/60/40 ( <--- Might change this to 20/60/25 next time, thanks again Duke)

Haha, ok that was just funny.
Now about the settings. Give it a go with the shock bound at 5\5 and rebound also at 5\5, and try camber angle with a 2.5 front 1.6 rear, also toe angle set it back to 0.0 on both, oh and the stabilizer's goto 2 front 4 rear. Everything else listed should stay the same. See how that works out for you. On some cars ive had to lower the lsd to almost nothing too, and sometimes some models actually respond better without even having an aftermarket lsd on them whatsoever. So if nothing else, then try using a stock one and see how that works out.



This was all right there on the first page....
 
it's the tires bro, put some softer tires on it. i had the same problem with a skyline; too much power, not enough grip. i especially had trouble when rallying, on the bridge on swiss alps, and the stretch of tarmac on the smoky mountains. thing kept spinning like a mutha, so just adjust camber, toe, height, and suspension softness, AND PUT SOFTER TIRES ON IT.
 
Back