high power full size FR comparo

[jeffgoddin]

All of these guys have amazing ultimate weight to power ratios, most of them weigh in at 1500kg+, though I decided to allow the RX-7's and the Tommy kaira M30 GTS-R '91 though they're closer to 1300kg stock.

In order from worst to best ratio of tuned hp/stock weight:

Lexus SC300/Soarer 3.0 GT '96
Eunos Cosmo Type E
Camaro SS '97
Corvette ZR-1
300ZX 2 seater TT '98
Corvette Grand Sport
Viper GTS
Viper RT/10
TRD 3000GT
Supra RZ '97
RX-7 Type RS '98
Tom's Supra
Tommy kaira M30 GTS-R '91
RX-7 GT-C '99

Ran a 1st round, out of 14 I'll eliminate 6 and run a second round of 8.

1st round tuning: Trial Mountain Pure Sport-3 event tuned to 3.00 kg/hp with a target weight of 1450kg, add brakes, custom tranny, clutch-3, 1.5 way LSD, fly-3, carbon driveshaft, semi-race suspension, and medium slicks.

Initial notes:

• Some of these guys have six gears, and that's a huge advantage at high horsepower tuning states where powerbands are generally not very forgiving.
• At 1450kg, you're putting about 480hp to those medium slicks on the rear wheels and this will result in a lot of traction loss without careful accelerator control, especially coming out of corners.
• This also creates the situation where controlled powerslides can substitute for a lot of steering action, which is challenging but also a lot of fun to get right!

Race notes: (all results out of 14)

• Lexus SC300: raced at 1426kg and 483hp (477.7hp as goal). Steep powerband peaking at rev limit is a serious handicap, though handling was reasonable. Result is worst best single lap (1:27.736) and second worst composite best lap (1:26.508) and average lap (1:28.436).
• Eunos Cosmos Type E: raced at 1459kg and 486hp (485.4hp as goal). Was extremely hard to control, very jumpy. Second worst single best lap (1:27.04), and worst composite best lap (1:26.681) and average lap (1:29.241).
• Camaro SS '97: raced at 1436kg and 480hp (480.1hp as goal). Six gears were put to good use, handling very nice and stable, no complaints. Result was third best single lap (1:24.886) and 8th best composite best lap (1:24.491) and average lap (1:26.043)
• Corvette ZR-1: raced at 1462kg and 486hp (486.1 as goal). Six gears again nice, super fat rear tires, but springs too tight or something, handling just not that great. Result is third worst single best lap (1:26.457), 5th worst composite best lap (1:24.989) and third worst average lap (1:27.196).
• 300ZX 2 seater twin turbo '98: raced at 1444kg and 482hp (481.9 as goal). Weak powerband and understeery handling made the 300ZX a big disappointment. Result is 5th worst single best lap (1:25.535) and 4th worst composite best lap (1:25.181) and average lap (1:26.989).
• Corvette Grand Sport: raced at 1421kg and 479hp (476.5 as goal). 6 gears and an ideal powerband is good, the feeling of extra downforce and responsive handling is great! Result is 7th best single best lap (1:25.27), 6th best composite best lap (1:24.173), and 7th best average lap (1:26.034).
• Viper GTS: raced at 1454kg and 486hp (484.3 as goal). A little more tricky to figure out, but again great performance. As close to being an equal to the Grand Sport as is possible, result being 6th best single best lap (1:25.084), 7th best composite best lap (1:24.383) and 6th best average lap (1:25.855).
• Viper RT/10: raced at 1430kg, 482hp (478.6 as goal). Despite six gears and same powerplant as the GTS, the ragtop Viper is missing something in the handling department. Twisty frame? Result is 7th worst single best lap (1:25.338) and 6th worst composite best lap (1:24.854) and average lap (1:26.596).
• TRD 3000GT: raced at 1434kg and 480hp (479.6 as goal). What a mean looking Supra! Don't know what they did, but TRD got it right. Great speed and handling. Clear winner in every category, setting the bar way above what I thought was possible up to this point. Single best lap 1:23.981, best composite lap 1:23.335, and best average lap 1:25.1.
• Supra RZ '97: raced at 1434kp and 480hp (479.6 as goal. Still great but obviously a slight step down from the TRD 3000GT. Result is 4th best single best lap (1:24.937), 3rd best composite best lap (1:23.714, less than 0.4 seconds behind the TRD 3000GT), and 4th best average lap (1:25.617).
• RX-7 Type RS '98: raced at 1280kg and 443hp (442.2 as goal). Sweet moves but a little bit harder to master than most, and only 5 gears? While producing the 6th worst single best lap (1:25.414) and only the 5th best average lap (1:25.739), it managed to create the second best composite best lap overall (1:23.428, less than 0.1 second behind the TRD 3000GT).
• Tom's Supra: raced at 1434kg and 480hp (479.6 as goal). Expecting something perhaps on the level of the TRD 3000GT, was a little disappointed, but really another one of the top performers. Result is second best single best lap (1:24.875, granted a full 0.9 second behind the TRD 3000GT), the 5th best composite best lap (1:23.926), and the third best average lap (1:25.576).
• Tommy kaira M30 GTS-R '91: raced at 1300kg and 447hp (447.2 as goal). Great handling, but powerband way too steep and only 5 gears, so results as expected. 4th worst single best lap (1:25.336), third worst composite best lap (1:25.336), and 5th worst average best lap (1:26.722).
• RX-7 GT-C '99: raced at 1280kg and 443hp (442.2 as goal). Seems like powerband isn't as good as regular Type RS '98... still great moves, but somewhat surprisingly doesn't achieve the same performance as the regular production model, though it did achieve the second best average lap (1:25.287). 5th best single lap (1:25.038) and 4th best composite lap (1:23.904, almost 0.2 second slower than RS '98).

And to list what I think is the most significant ranking, composite best lap times:

1:23.335 TRD 3000GT
1:23.428 RX-7 Type RS '98
1:23.714 Supra RZ '97
1:23.904 RX-7 GT-C '99
1:23.926 Tom's Supra
1:24.173 Corvette Grand Sport
1:24.384 Viper GTS
1:24.491 Camaro SS '97
1:24.854 Viper RT/10
1:24.989 Corvette ZR-1
1:25.181 300ZX 2 seater twin turbo '98
1:25.336 Tommy kaira M30 GTS-R '91
1:26.508 Lexus SC300
1:26.681 Eunos Cosmos Type E

And so the semi-finalists are the Camaro SS '97 and up on the list above.

 

[jeffgoddin]

Second round was controversial! Upsets!

Ran Grand Valley tuned now to 2.5kg/hp at 1400kg goal with the addition of soft slicks. Getting more like 560hp out of most of these, RX-7's still stock weight and 525hp.

Order of running was designed to handicap the best performers of the previous round by making them go first (while I was still learning to handle the track with this tuning state.) So, in the order I ran them, the best laps were:

TRD 3000GT..............1:49.084
Tom's Supra..............1:49.005
RX-7 GT-C................1:48.124
Supra RZ '97..............1:48.211
RX-7 Type RS '98........1:46.841
Camaro SS '97............1:47.129
Viper GTS..................1:48.099
Corvette Grand Sport..1:47.661

so the TRD3000GT, though best by far in the previous round, was worst in this round!

I averaged the results from the first two rounds to determine the cut, and will bring the follow four forward to the semifinals:

• RX-7 Type RS '98 best overall so far
• Camaro SS '97 redeeming American NA muscle in second round with great power and control
• TRD 3000GT lucky to still be in it
• Corvette Grand Sport with a by far best section 3 due to great power oversteer in the mid speed sections enabling tighter faster cornering than grip allows

Well, sorry to the Tom's and RZ Supra, but the TRD3000GT is still there to represent a great turbo engine. And with the RX-7 GT-C also out everybody left can take race modification for the final event.

For the next round I'll carry the Viper over as a pace car, run it for 20 laps or so until I'm comfortable with the course.

 

[Pyle_PMG]

Yes! American muscle defeats well tuned Japanese supercar. I have a question, do you use a different track each time for different stages of tuning, if you do I have another question? Wouldn't using the three same tracks, like the test course, Autumn Ring Mini, and lets say Grand Valley Speedway produce more concise results? So you could see who has the best setups for max speed, short technical courses, and longer technical courses with each level of tuning? Just a thought, that's all. Keep up the good work.

 

[jeffgoddin]

Thanks! I do consider the course I pick to a certain degree. In the case of this high power FR comparo, I'm going with the assumption that these cars are just not ideal for low speed technical courses, and I'm really not interested in pure brute power like the test course would demonstrate, so I'm going with courses that 1) have some very high speed sections where low drag will show an advantage and 2) lots of technical mid- to high-speed sections.

Trial Mountain is one of my favorites, though it doesn't get quite as fast as other courses, but it does require a lot of careful mid-speed work and rewards high speed maneuverability as well.

Grand Valley tests braking, springs, mid-speed maneuverability and even lower speed, grip, and also very high speed aerodynamics on the main drag. Another one of my favorite test courses.

Thinking of Rome Circuit for the third round. The Camaro doesn't have much more tuning to take, unfortunately, so I'm going to go ahead and race mod it to get weight down to min then reduce DF to stock level, then add all hp to determine race tuning for the other guys.

 

[Pyle_PMG]

I see what you mean by excluding them from the comparison, this is coming from a kid who tried to create a good setup for the TVR Speed 12 at Motorsports Land. I wish I had the time to do a GT2 comparo, I would do a JGTC battle, but with all the homework and GT4 and 5-pin bowling (league play and tournaments), I don't have the time and effort to do it. That's why I enjoy reading these, because its what I wish I had time to do.

 

[jeffgoddin]

Well, I'm an off-season farmer so this is what is keeping me sane this winter! (This and anime...)

But as far as this testing goes, I am trying to come up with best ways to get strong results. This is the first time I've done eliminations between rounds, in other comparos I've just done one single trial. In others where there are only like 8 cars I'm looking at to begin with I've done up to three trials with the same cars. But no matter what, it takes about a half hour to do a single trial for each car, so the first round of this took about 7 hours, and the second about 4, etc. If I had a job or a girlfriend right now it would take me weeks to put this kind of time in.

But I do love GT2. Still haven't played anything beyond it since I've never had a PS2 let alone 3, and still play with D-pads, no steering wheel, not even any analogue. Not sure I'd have the same skills. And I think GT2 was designed to play fairly well with the D-pad.