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Honda to quit F1? - Now with added Brawn GP
- Thread starter darkfinal
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- Ardius_
Roo
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Autosport's report
It was mentioned a few years ago that in the event of the grid dropping below a certain number - I think it was either 18 or 16 - that the top teams would have to run a third car. Possible opening for di Resta or Paffet then.
It was mentioned a few years ago that in the event of the grid dropping below a certain number - I think it was either 18 or 16 - that the top teams would have to run a third car. Possible opening for di Resta or Paffet then.
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- Tezuka18
Jesus Christ!!
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From the autosport article:
"There are suggestions, however, that Honda may be willing to offload the team free of charge to anyone willing to support it - and they could even continue to supply engines for a period of time until another technical partner is found."
So if thats true, yes, lol.
GTPlanet should get together and buy the team! Or maybe even offer some small sponsorship!
That'll be 99p towards Button's pay and the rest for Mr Brawn.
Who's next for the chop I wonder? All the teams will be affected by the same circumstances Honda are in, even the privateer teams have some sponsorship that isn't too healthy. No doubt another factor in all this was the lack of a US GP and now the lack of a general North American event - I can see why Honda might feel that its not worth it anymore.
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David Richards your thread has arrived.
MagpieRacer
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Thats what I was thinking.
Cap'n Jack
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Source: http://f1.gpupdate.net/en/news/2008/12/05/honda-announce-retirement-from-f1/
Well, it's confirmed now.
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I think the only good that can be said of this is that Sheui Nakamoto won't be around to make talented and experienced drivers look like complete idiots by developing the worst chasiss on the grid.
Aren't we getting to the point where there are less teams than allowed under the Concorde Agreement?
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- GTP_Mars
Aside from the Honda employees who stand to lose their jobs, the thing I am most concerned about is Rubens Barrichello. His F1 days may well be over unless another team pops up before much longer. Jenson Button, too, must be wondering what will happen, but atleast he is still only 28... it would be a real shame for Rubens to go out of F1 in this way...
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I fear, gentlemen, that this is the end. Max Mosley sent a letter to the teams this morning, outlining a spec-engine by Cosworth, with transmissions by Ricardo and Xtrac (who already supply half the grid):
This is very much an end to F1 as we know it. With Honda pulling out, Toyota might follow up (or at least cut their gigabillion dollar spendings), while Renault's ever-watchful Ghosn might pull them out, as well. On the other hand, Honda were never, historically, a committed team: Their '60s project was dropped early, and they pulled out of engine-making in '92 because their engines weren't the best anymore. They drove themselves into the ground with their EarthDream campaign, and had to support the full expenses almost on their own. I want them to stay, if only for Rubens and Button, but they dug their own pit there.
Every problem has it's roots: In this case, the root of all evil is McLaren-Mercedes. Note the Mercedes bit, because that's the important one. Up until 1994, most of the teams' budgets were FOM money, and some minor sponsoring, and success was largely dependent on a solid, reliable design and a talented team - and some money from last year's success. When Mercedes ditched Sauber for McLaren, though, things changed. The manufacturer started pouring unimaginable (at the time) amounts of money into the team and the engine, and the other manufacturers started matching them: Soon, Renault and Ferrari upped their budgets, allowing the latter to set up it's "dream team" that would dominate F1 for several years. Things became dirty when Honda, for no good reason, ditched the superbly-managed and highly talented Jordan crew, and started supplying backmarkers BAR with their works engine. Jordan quickly fell behind, out-spent massively by the manufacturer teams. The end of the garagistas started in the '90s, but the end of the independent teams started in 2000.
Not quite. I reported yesterday that they've been firing employees (they termed it "voluntary vacancies"), and for a week or so things were looking shaky - but a full-out retreat wasn't expected.
^ Post of win #1
^ Post of win #2
Yep. He and Sato definitely deserve to retire with grace. So many years under Schumacher, the last two seasons in the second/third-worst car on the grid - not what Barrichello deserves.
Not all is lost, however, for Honda have reportedly found 3 prospective buyers since the announcement - within 12 hours, that is!
Mosley's letter
This is very much an end to F1 as we know it. With Honda pulling out, Toyota might follow up (or at least cut their gigabillion dollar spendings), while Renault's ever-watchful Ghosn might pull them out, as well. On the other hand, Honda were never, historically, a committed team: Their '60s project was dropped early, and they pulled out of engine-making in '92 because their engines weren't the best anymore. They drove themselves into the ground with their EarthDream campaign, and had to support the full expenses almost on their own. I want them to stay, if only for Rubens and Button, but they dug their own pit there.
Every problem has it's roots: In this case, the root of all evil is McLaren-Mercedes. Note the Mercedes bit, because that's the important one. Up until 1994, most of the teams' budgets were FOM money, and some minor sponsoring, and success was largely dependent on a solid, reliable design and a talented team - and some money from last year's success. When Mercedes ditched Sauber for McLaren, though, things changed. The manufacturer started pouring unimaginable (at the time) amounts of money into the team and the engine, and the other manufacturers started matching them: Soon, Renault and Ferrari upped their budgets, allowing the latter to set up it's "dream team" that would dominate F1 for several years. Things became dirty when Honda, for no good reason, ditched the superbly-managed and highly talented Jordan crew, and started supplying backmarkers BAR with their works engine. Jordan quickly fell behind, out-spent massively by the manufacturer teams. The end of the garagistas started in the '90s, but the end of the independent teams started in 2000.
Not quite. I reported yesterday that they've been firing employees (they termed it "voluntary vacancies"), and for a week or so things were looking shaky - but a full-out retreat wasn't expected.
^ Post of win #1
^ Post of win #2
Yep. He and Sato definitely deserve to retire with grace. So many years under Schumacher, the last two seasons in the second/third-worst car on the grid - not what Barrichello deserves.
Not all is lost, however, for Honda have reportedly found 3 prospective buyers since the announcement - within 12 hours, that is!
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From what I read they will, in Europe, only race the 24 Hours of Le Mans. In the USA, they'll race the 12 Hours of Sebring, and they're still undecided about entering the full ALMS.
back to topic: I think mr. Ecclestone should take good note about the markets that interest (and worry) the constructors. Honda did not complain about the Singapore market, did they? By taking F1 out of North America (USA / Canada) and out of France, with other major european venues at risk (Germany and even the UK), Ecclestone is in fact taking it out of key markets for the constructors. Even if a F1 event can be seen anywhere in the world, there's nothing like having a "home event" to boost consumer awareness.
back to topic: I think mr. Ecclestone should take good note about the markets that interest (and worry) the constructors. Honda did not complain about the Singapore market, did they? By taking F1 out of North America (USA / Canada) and out of France, with other major european venues at risk (Germany and even the UK), Ecclestone is in fact taking it out of key markets for the constructors. Even if a F1 event can be seen anywhere in the world, there's nothing like having a "home event" to boost consumer awareness.
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It's not a pretty sight when Honda's U.S. sales were down over 30%, with no immediate rebound. Nearly every other automaker is in the same boat, and now it's time to start the bilge pump, or they're going to sink. In Honda's case, the F1 team has to go.
Almost understandably, F1 is preparing to build the Car of Tomorrow. I'm not going to like it; but GP2/F3000 has been walking down the spec-car path for years now. I thought killing the customer car was a bad idea, but maybe it's time to re-examine it, or just merge GP2 with F1 in some way.
We get entertainment, but automakers get very little long-term return out of F1 racing.
Almost understandably, F1 is preparing to build the Car of Tomorrow. I'm not going to like it; but GP2/F3000 has been walking down the spec-car path for years now. I thought killing the customer car was a bad idea, but maybe it's time to re-examine it, or just merge GP2 with F1 in some way.
We get entertainment, but automakers get very little long-term return out of F1 racing.
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I think that was really just the excuse to get out of F1 - really its because of the state of the car market in general. If lack of results were even a reason, don't you think they would have pulled out a lot earlier? Plus the fact that there is a lot of potential in F1 2009 for Honda to jump up the field and they have been focusing on this goal, this is why its so shocking.
There won't be any Prodrive buyout, do you really think anyone is going to throw that much money around right now? I'm sorry to say it, but the Honda F1 crew are not going to have their jobs saved unless they find a backer who has lots of money and is insane.
Like has been said I expect Toyota to be the next if anyone. Then maybe Renault, Williams or BMW Sauber because of their bank sponsorships plus their car sales.
I'd say the safest team right now is Force India because they are owned by a billionaire who owns a beer company and an airline. Red Bull are fairly safe too for similar reasons.
Hmm, we will have to see where this goes. If you were going to buy any team other than Ferrari, McLaren or BMW with the prospect of a potential winning next year, it would probably be Honda, they have apparently made much progress with their KERS system and can only do good with Ross Brawn. But the sheer amount of money required and the current economical state of the world makes it all very doubtful.
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The end of Honda then, but I expect new buyers soon if the rumours are true about the cars pace for next year.
But what shocked me most was the article about Cosworth coming back in 2010. What. the. hell? It that'll happen, we really won't be able to tell who's going to win if the reliability of the Cosworth engines are as anything as they were in 2006
I won't stop watching F1 as long as Toyota is still involved [/fanboism], but it's going to be completely different with such a team less and the potential of those Cosworth engines becoming the standardised engines
But what shocked me most was the article about Cosworth coming back in 2010. What. the. hell? It that'll happen, we really won't be able to tell who's going to win if the reliability of the Cosworth engines are as anything as they were in 2006
I won't stop watching F1 as long as Toyota is still involved [/fanboism], but it's going to be completely different with such a team less and the potential of those Cosworth engines becoming the standardised engines
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T
But what shocked me most was the article about Cosworth coming back in 2010. What. the. hell? It that'll happen, we really won't be able to tell who's going to win if the reliability of the Cosworth engines are as anything as they were in 2006
I won't stop watching F1 as long as Toyota is still involved [/fanboism], but it's going to be completely different with such a team less and the potential of those Cosworth engines becoming the standardised engines
The Cosworth DFV won 155 GP's between '67 and '83. It's variant, the DFX, dominated Indycar racing between '75 and the late '80s. It also powered two LeMans winners in the '70's. Other Cosworth engines were successful in the late 80's and early 90's, taking Schumacher to the world title in '94.
Their more recent engines haven't had the success of their predecessors, but it's not like they haven't got the skills or heritage to pull it off again.
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