hot hatch comparo

[jeffgoddin]

Looking at the list, there are a few different categories, just wondering what others think about this. I know I say hot hatch, but this includes not just hatches but liftbacks, 5 door hatches, 2 boxes, and a 5 door liftback (Xsara).

First, unfair advantage, also only above 50K credits:

Clio Sport V6: 3L engine, MR
323ti: 2.5L engine, FR

Next: the big boys, all with about 2L engines:

Pulsar GTI '91 - okay, 4WD is kind of unfair here
306 S16
206 S16
Focus Ghia Zetec 2.0
145 2.0 Cloverleaf

Still contenders, about 1.8L:
Familia GT-R '92 - also 4WD
A3 Limousine
S3
Golf GTI 1.8T

Middle of the road, all about 1.6L:
Mirage Cyborg R '92
Mirage Cyborg ZR '97
Almera VZ-R N1
Civic Type R EK '98
Civic Sir-II '93
CR-X '91
Saxo

Little guys, mostly about 1.3L:
Demio A-Spec
Glanza V '98
Glanza V '96

And one teeny tiny candidate:
Sirion X4, only 713cc but featherlight and 4WD and probably a good powerband

so who are the real hot hatches in this bunch? The Clio Sport is going to be the absolute best by default, so who would it be interesting to compare?

Also, evidently wikipedia thinks the Lancia Delta and AE86 should be included in the hot hatch category, so maybe I'll look at them, too...

 

[Parnelli Bone]

I say they all could be hot hatches except the Astra, Corsa, Lancia Y, and Honda Logo. The Opels are just too weak (not enough upgrades in GT2), the Logo too much of an econobox, and the Y? I dunno, I'm just not seeing "hot hatch" with this car.

Granted, this is all opinion. Many others disagree I'm sure.

 

[jeffgoddin]

Looked at the combination of performance expectation based on weight to power ratio both tuned and stock, and decided to remove the following from the list since it looks like they're rather tepid hatches at best:

Astra
106 S16
Punto GT
106 Rallye
m13
Xsara
Y 1.2
Corsa
Mini Cooper
A160
Logo TS

Perhaps in a tuned, balanced comparison some of them would perform great, but much of what makes a hot hatch is off the showroom floor speed, and pretty much none of these have it.

Also forgot to include it, so added Familia GT-R

 

[jeffgoddin]

1st surprise, the A3 beat the pants off the Clio sport, and nobody else has come close. So much comes down to the engine and its powerband...

 

[Parnelli Bone]

Cool!

 

[jeffgoddin]

Okay, here's the methodology: Grand Valley at 4.40 kg/hp tuning at 1050kg, using my rule of +/- 1% to the kg/hp per 40 kg over/under 1050kg. Add brakes, custom tranny, clutch-3, 1.5 way LSD or custom if 4wd, flywheel-3, carbon driveshaft if available, semi-race suspension with front dropped to min and rear 4mm above that, front damper up one notch, camber set to 1.5/1.0 for FF, 2.0/0.8 for FR, 1.8/0.9 for 4WD, and soft slicks.

Ran 10 laps, recorded section times, took best sections from each car and added them together to get bast lap times, and here's the overall results:

0) S3 with 1:57.085
1) 323ti with 1:57.213
2) A3 Limousine with 1:57.309
3) Clio Sport V6 with 1:57.765
4) Astra with 1:57.774
5) Civic '93 with 1:57.81
6) Pulsar VZ-R N1 with 1:57.919
7) Familia GT-R '92 with 1:58.271
8) 306 S16 with 1:58.517
9) Pulsar GTI-R '91 with 1:58.7
10) Mirage Cyborg ZR '97 with 1:58.778

The S3 caught the single best lap by far, and was the most consistent of top performers.

The Pulsar VZ-R N1 had the best corner grip maintaining speeds 3% higher around corners than anybody else.

The Cyborg R '92 has the coolest color name, Saint Armor Green... like as in Saint Seiya???

The 306 has 6 gears, which is nice, but it still didn't make the top of the pack. The S3's six gears on the other hand allowed me to take full advantage of its generous powerband with some careful seetings, and it showed in the results.

In terms of price ordering, the best performers for the price are in the following order:
1) Cyborg '92 by default as the cheapest but with a respectable 1:58.954 for under 6000cr
2) Pulsar GTI-R '91 with 1:58.7 for around 7600cr
3) Civic '93 with 1:57.81 for around 9100cr
4) Astra with 1:57.774 for 21850cr (big jump)
5) A3 with 1:57.309 for 34130cr
6) S3 with 1:57.085 fr 47460cr

The Golf GTI 1.8T is the best 5 door with 1:59 even, and I guess that's the last thing I have to say about my hot hatch comparo.

Oh, the Sirion X4 did well for itself, though only actually beat the Starlet and the Saxo. And the Saxo sucked butt. That's all!

 

[jeffgoddin]

Oops, forgot a couple things.

Best stock performers:

1) Clio sport
2) Pulsar GTI-R
3) Pulsar VZ-R N1
4) Civic Type R EK '98
5) Familia GT-R '92

everybody else way below that

Best ultimate performers:

1) Clio Sport by far
2) 206 S16
3) Pulsar GTI-R '91
4) Demio A-spec
5) Focus Ghia Zetec 2.0

and many others close behind

Best 2L:
1) Astra
2) 306 S16

Best 1.8L:
1) S3

Best 1.6L:
1) Civic '93
2) Pulsar VZ-R N1

 

[jeffgoddin]

Somehow missed the Audi S3 in this comparo, tested it and edited the posts above accordingly. As it turns out, it was the best performer thanks to a kind powerband and six gears plus 4WD, with the best single lap and average lap by far.

 

[LeGeNd-1]

Brillian comparisons jeff! Once again congrats on a job well done 👍

 

[Parnelli Bone]

It's funny, back in my GT2 days (2004-2007) I used to have more free time to do stuff like this, nowadays I barely have enough time to get thru GT5's beginner leagues!

But yea, good job Jeff.

 

[jeffgoddin]

Well, since I noticed Laguna and Vectra are actually hatches, and remembered the 180SX Type X '96 should also legitimately be included (though it looks nothing like a hatch, and is in fact a liftback) I ran a few more tests. Also decided to run the Xsara. Not going to report much here, just final best laps using above methodology.

New rankings (new entries in bold):

#1) S3 at 1:57.085
< < < gap > > >
#2) 323ti at 1:57.213
#3) A3 Limousine at 1:57.309
#4) 180SX Type X at 1:57.395
< < < gap > > >
#5) Vectra at 1:57.665
#6) Clio Sport at 1:57.765 (ran this test early, maybe I should try again...)
#7) Astra at 1:57.774
#8) Civic Sir-II '93 at 1:57.810
#9) Almera VZ-R N1 at 1:57.919
< < < gap > > >
#10) 323 GT-R '92 at 1:58.271
< < < gap > > >
#11) 306 S16 at 1:58.517
#11) Laguna at 1:58.555
#12) Pulsar GTI-R '91 at 1:58.700
#13) Mirage Cyborg ZR '97 at 1:58.778
#14) Xsara at 1:58.816
#15) Mirage Cyborg R '92 at 1:58.954
#16) 145 2.0 Cloverleaf at 1:58.986
#17) Golf GTI 1.8T at 1:59.000
< < < gap > > >
#18) Focus Ghia Zetec 2.0 at 1:59.515
#20) 206 S16 at 1:59.735
#21) Civic Type-R EK '98 at 1:59.93
< < < gap > > >
#22) Demio A-spec at 2:00.371
#23) Sirion X4 at 2:00.514
#24) Starlet Glanza V '96 at 2:00.717

Edit: just realized those ZR-1 and Grand Sport Corvettes may be hatches, too! But I don't think anybody in their right mind would call them hot hatches, either pure sport or American muscle. Still, makes me realize again that categorizing cars isn't a perfect science.