How can others be SO good drivers?

S

scooterlord

302
Hello there,

I have a Logitech G25, and by using the tune settings for some cars in this forum, I can't even handle the car in straights. Am I such a lousy driver or others are WAY better than me?

I have almost all GOLD in GT5p, but some of them I got back in the days of the gamepad. Today I played like 20 times the S7 with the Tuned Vette until I got first and I had to crash into others a couple of times - but that's how the AI aggresiveness is used anyway, they crash into me when I am ahead of them. Most circuits I get gold first play (like all As but the ferrari challenge, and most S), but the in Eiger Norward tracks best I can do is silver. :/ I wonder how come.

You are supposed to play without crashing into others, but some tracks (like the F430 one) there's no way to get it right (someone else mentioned it in this forum), while in others there have to be OPTIMUM conditions to achieve (splipstream in exact time, crash into others at other points) to get it right. I thought they were supposed to be as tough as they should to win FAIR and SQUARE.

So my question is, do any of you manage to get GOLDs every time you play, for example S10? Wih multiple cars? Can you control any car without ASM and traction with ease? :/ I am worried :S
 
It down to skill and practise. Footballers were born skilled at football. People like d-hollant are born skilled at racing games. However practise will help loads. I personally somehow didn't have a problems completing any of the challanges but im nothing like skilled at gran turismo. Just practise and you will get better and will improve. Look at replays of the fast people and learn.

Good luck. :)
 
I have not run the trophy events since I first got the game, so not sure about wheel impact on getting trophies (may re-visit as the online events (expert level) are sucking this month). I went through all the GT5p trophy events using my game pad and just default tunes!


💡 Now I am going to defintely re-visit the trophy events!


I do know 'my' cars' handling and performance characteristics improved with the tunes people have so generously provided. And all of the tunes so far have included switching off traction control and abs at setting '1'

Some people's tunes are more 'twitchy' than others; depending a lot on their style (lack of better word) of driving.

My G25 definitely improved my performance, but most of all my enjoyment; and then I bought a playseat evolution to add even more enjoyment!
 
It all comes down to experience and practice. Not sure how long you've been at this, scooterlord, but my experience is the wheel has a much higher learning curve to master than the dual-shock does.

I'm great with a DS2, rarely ever hit the Ai (and they don't usually hit me cuz I know how to avoid them doing so most of the time) but when I bought a wheel a few years back, it was like I was a newb all over again.
 
I used to worry about this too. I thought I was a great driver. I used to play my brother all the time, I was literally toying with him in any car combo, my friends never stood a chance either. I was king! :P

However, coming here has been such a massive eye opener. I learned very quickly that I am in fact quite average. But hold on, because this is GTPlanet, and the people I now compare myself to are the absolute cream of the crop. Honestly, there are people in here who are literally among the best in the world at GT.

I guess my point is you shouldn't worry too much about obtaining your golds in prologue, the people who you compare yourself with in here have been racing GT for years! It takes time. I bought a DFGT just before the TT demo expired. I spent hours trying to get close to my pad times, and by the end of my time with the TT I was still near 2 seconds off. 2 seconds!!! The transition from pad to wheel has been slow for me. It's defintely more fun, which is all that matters really. But Im sure that when my skill level with the wheel reaches that of my pad, I'll be even quicker than I was before :)
 
Well, I\ve been using the G25 for quite some time now, I think my overall driving has improved (obviously), since there's no point in even comparing a wheel to a pad, but my manhood is hurt by the facts. I can accept the fact that there will always be someone better, but I want to be calmed down by accepting the luck factor. That's why I asked. By playing a million times I managed to get a gold with a specific car in a specific hard race event. Do good drivers always get it? Or they just got lucky? Or they get luckier than us?

...Replays dont help a lot, I can view the AI's replays, but since you don't know their tunes it's difficult to judge...

One more thing that comes in mind. In Spec 3 GT5p, can the pros beat the Eiger events in Gold without crashing into others/slipstreaming by luck? Can you play it 5 times in a row and get 5 golds? :/
 
scooterlord
Well, I\ve been using the G25 for quite some time now, I think my overall driving has improved (obviously), since there's no point in even comparing a wheel to a pad, but my manhood is hurt by the facts. I can accept the fact that there will always be someone better, but I want to be calmed down by accepting the luck factor.
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I'd say luck has very little to do with it. Some people are good enough to lap consistently at a high level.

You've got to analyse, in full detail, why others are faster, and where. Focus on a particular car/track in a TT. Firstly, watch the onboard laps of the top 3 or 4 drivers. Write down the fastest of each split time. Pay attention to the lines, braking, throttle usage etc. Then go to the track yourself.

I feel it breaks down into two particular parts: Selection of lines, and execution of lines. There can be more than 1 fastest line through specific sections; many people have different ways of going equally fast through sections. But a crucial point is, you've got to select your lines, and always aim for the same lines. The point is, if you don't have an immaculate imprint in your mind of what lines you will take, how can you be consistent, or how can you improve on previous laps? Always have perfectly in mind what lines you will take. Of course in a race situation, this can change, but that's a different matter.

It's difficult to consistently execute the perfect line. Furthermore, selection of lines can be affected by the characteristics of the car. You just need to practice a lot to get comfortable with consistently repeating the same movements and control.

Of course, nobody executes the lines perfectly all the time. So this is where good people can reduce the time lost as much as possible (or even find a way to go just as quickly).

One of the big things is to make use of non-maximum throttle while in the middle of corners, and importantly increasing the throttle out of corners, smoothly. It's especially important with the more powerful cars to be typically on around 60 - 90 % throttle when exiting many corners. Obviously there's lots of variations, but it's a very common one. Just have a look at TT replays and watch the throttle of the top guys and girls.
 
I've found that still being a relative newbie (02/10) with the wheel that the old saying practice make perfect is the key.

I ran Eiger a lot when someone who I can't thank enough, gave me a copy of GTHD. I ran it entirely with the wheel. Now I can't get near the times with a pad on it but I can still beat most of my times with a pad on the other tracks of GT5p.
 
Yeah I can control any car without driver aids and drive them all with reasonable pace, however to be the fastest of the fast, it's all about having green skin, if you don't have green skin, and a really slender figure plus big black eyes, then you can't be that fast.
 
Paulie
Yeah I can control any car without driver aids and drive them all with reasonable pace, however to be the fastest of the fast, it's all about having green skin, if you don't have green skin, and a really slender figure plus big black eyes, then you can't be that fast.
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So in other words, you've got to be a reptilian?
 
Paulie, good to know that there people actually able to drive as good as you say, like I admire people that achieved trophies in other games that might seem impossible.

What I don't see is room for improvement in my case. Well, GT isn't perfect either -I hate the way the clutch acts, not shifting gears properly at all times when redlining, but it gets really frustrating.

In real life, it's not that I have a really fast car (opel corsa D) but I drive as fast as I can and try to push it to its limits, even when I am on the road with bigger opponents. But that's without tuning right? I wonder how much faster it could go with a different driver... Was never given the opportunity to race on a track though - I guess that's way different. :/

Anyway, I started this thread because of my frustration winning some events. I heard that the different specs made some events easier, some harder. I switched from pad to a wheel. I switched from standard physics to pro. I switched from TCS on to TCS off. Maybe it's become way to hard now :/ I am just worried if I can't win the events in GT5 when it comes out :/ I'll be staying awake at nights till I do, I guess.

...I won the S10 a few times before with the Amuse S2000, back in the days of the pad, tcs, standard physics. Now, in S10, if you don't reach the front pack of cars when you start I don't think you are able to catch up with them later.. to me it seems impossible atm :/

Plus, silly question. Can you see other people's winning replays in GT5p, like in the TT demo? Is this possible? when I leave it in demo mode, I see drifting replays by others, but have no idea about racing replays or how to do this manually.
 
scooterlord
Paulie, good to know that there people actually able to drive as good as you say, like I admire people that achieved trophies in other games that might seem impossible.

What I don't see is room for improvement in my case. Well, GT isn't perfect either -I hate the way the clutch acts, not shifting gears properly at all times when redlining, but it gets really frustrating.

In real life, it's not that I have a really fast car (opel corsa D) but I drive as fast as I can and try to push it to its limits, even when I am on the road with bigger opponents. But that's without tuning right? I wonder how much faster it could go with a different driver... Was never given the opportunity to race on a track though - I guess that's way different. :/

Anyway, I started this thread because of my frustration winning some events. I heard that the different specs made some events easier, some harder. I switched from pad to a wheel. I switched from standard physics to pro. I switched from TCS on to TCS off. Maybe it's become way to hard now :/ I am just worried if I can't win the events in GT5 when it comes out :/ I'll be staying awake at nights till I do, I guess.

...I won the S10 a few times before with the Amuse S2000, back in the days of the pad, tcs, standard physics. Now, in S10, if you don't reach the front pack of cars when you start I don't think you are able to catch up with them later.. to me it seems impossible atm :/

Plus, silly question. Can you see other people's winning replays in GT5p, like in the TT demo? Is this possible? when I leave it in demo mode, I see drifting replays by others, but have no idea about racing replays or how to do this manually.
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Keep up the attitude, keep up the research, keep up the practice! Try learning the technical side of things.

I used to drive my brothers r32 GTR to my limits, which were really fast (sorry to boast, just proving my point here :)). And to my brother (who is alot better) felt that i was close to the limit that he would push the car to, yet i could never match his speed or keep up with him.

Same with the karts we race, ill push my kart to the limit, yet i couldnt stay behind him.

My brother is a much more technical driver. He always says, my skill is alot better than his, yet i always lacked the technical side of racing. Understanding purely whats going on with the car and what part is effecting your turn in and your turn out, aswell as your mid corner.

Understanding more, will open your doors for improvement. Understanding throttle techniques and how to brake with a RWD FR car compared to a MR car is different. in a RWD FR car your mostly applying throttle in the apex or exit of a corner, where as in an MR car you need to keep abit of that throttle hanging in there throughout the turn. In a kart, you want to make the rear inside wheel jack up which is completely different driving to a road car. In a v8 supercar, its all about braking early and giving enough time before the turn and then pushing hard out the turn. Instead of thinking about which cars performance allows the car to do what (that is, how good the brakes are, how good the engine, susp, wheels etc), think about what the car needs to be doing in order to get in and out the quickest and smoothest.

Like i said, keep it up, research, practice, learn, think smarter, not harder!
 
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It's all about seat time man. The more time you spend, the better you get. Also watch the replay and videos that are posted on this forum. It'll help you tremendously with your lines and braking point.
 
My advice would be to take all the aids off, switch to pro physics, and just go drive. Start with an easy car/track combo like the RX-8 or 350Z on HSR. Once that gets too easy or boring, step it up to a faster car and maybe a more advanced track.

Like TN2004S4 said, it's all about seat time and practice. The more you do it, the easier it will be and the faster you will go.

As far as seeing others' replays, go to "Rankings" from the main menu, and you can choose what car, track, and physics you want to see the leader board for. You can then see the replays of the top ten times.
 
Yeah, like I was saying before, go to the 'Rankings' page and look at some top replays. Don't look at lots of cars on different circuits. It's just too much when you're trying to improve general technique. Focus on one car on one circuit, watch the top replays, watch the lines, braking, throttle especially, write down the split times, and then try it out yourself. But I can't emphasise strongly enough, just stick to one car and circuit, otherwise you can get overwhelmed with too much variance between difference car's handling, and difference circuit knowledge.

Short circuits are great for this kind of thing, because there's not much track to master; it's a nice manageable task. High Speed Ring and Suzuka East are two good ones.
 
Alan_G
Yeah, like I was saying before, go to the 'Rankings' page and look at some top replays. Don't look at lots of cars on different circuits. It's just too much when you're trying to improve general technique. Focus on one car on one circuit, watch the top replays, watch the lines, braking, throttle especially, write down the split times, and then try it out yourself.
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Of course, it's difficult to use someone else's replay when they are drifting the whole time, and using numerous little 'cheats' to improve their laptime. I don't want to take anything away from the skill of these guys, but because it is just a computer game, it's possible to go faster by exploiting the rules (or physics) of the system - wall-riding is a more obvious example. It can be hard to find a fast, clean, 'legitimate' (i.e. how one would drive a real car) replay sometimes.
 
lbsf1
Footballers were born skilled at football. People like d-hollant are born skilled at racing games.
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No, just no. You can't be born with skill.

Most F1 drivers started racing from 8-9 years old. Thats not natural talent, that is practice from an early age.

Professional footballers will have spent most of their lives playing football, there is no natural skill. 'Talent' (Which I think you were referring to, not skill) on its own is completely worthless.

DHolland has said himself that he is no better at racing games than the rest of us. He just spends more time on it practicing, hence why he is so good.
 
Hm, I never noticed the ranking option :) I tried the replay of the fastest in the Eiger with the EVO 9 and immediately afterwards, I dropped to a 1:15.350 from 1:17.xxx, in a few hours play. I am just trying to take the B event Gold, looks like I will probably get it by tomorrow.

In this particular track though, looks like the 'cheat' is to collect as much speed as you get before the starting line.. can't see that in the replay...
 
scooterlord i think i am like you .. i followed the games driving line .. this however i have found to be in places nonsense (someone in the thread mentioned there are many different lines on the track that will get you a fast time) .. I learnt to just go with what feels right for me and ignore the games suggested race line. Maybe this is why you are struggling to achieve the golds on certain tracks ? As said above practice the track from all angles and find the best for you ! I am average on the game but since GT 1 i have played for fun and loved trying for gold in events. I get them my way (raceline) then i get them the suggested way (takes heaps longer to do too lol) Just go with what comes natural to you .. master your style and you soon will find you can compete with most racers.
 
scooterlord
In this particular track though, looks like the 'cheat' is to collect as much speed as you get before the starting line.. can't see that in the replay...
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That's not cheating, that's just having a perfect exit on the last corner before the finish line.
 
tatfa, I never used the racing line option in the game actually. I am using my own lines. I am working in a hospital and today I am on a night-shift and just encountered this site:

http://www.drivingfast.net

looks quite useful and has some tips that I have never tried before. For example I thought heel and toe driving was something different than it actually is and I have never tried this before. From what I see there's room for even more improvement, like using left-foot braking, etc but I am afraid it will mess with my every day driving and I don't want that at all :/

And although I was pretty good in physics and realized why the car acted like this or that in specific situations, it becomes crystal clear when they are actually pointed out to you and are explained. I didn't know that lift-off oversteer is encountered mostly in rear wheel, rear engine cars. Hell, I didn't even know there was a difference between rear wheel drive front and rear engine cars! :S
 
scooterlord
Hm, I never noticed the ranking option :) I tried the replay of the fastest in the Eiger with the EVO 9 and immediately afterwards, I dropped to a 1:15.350 from 1:17.xxx, in a few hours play. I am just trying to take the B event Gold, looks like I will probably get it by tomorrow.

In this particular track though, looks like the 'cheat' is to collect as much speed as you get before the starting line.. can't see that in the replay...
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Hi scooterlord:

Not too many months ago (being fairly new to this game, or any driving sim for that matter), I shared similar frustrations with improvement and then, suddenly, one day............💡

Regarding the frustration with progress, I reasoned something like this:

1) You shaved two seconds off your Eiger time in a few hours

2) The best around these parts work on shaving hundredths over days

3) You are improving at least a thousand times faster than they are!:)

You seem to have the GT bug so be patient, keep at it and enyoy it. It will come.👍:)

Z
 
Well, you never stop learning, I am 29, have been gaming since 5 and have been driving since 18. I was riding a motorbike till I sold it 2 years ago (a suzuki hayabusa) and was quite fast with it.

Looks like I was too arrogant, but know I see that there's much to learn. I used to think that driving smoother would only save you tires, gas, consumables in general at a small cost of track time. Looks like I was wrong :/

Will play a bit later, too excited :D
 
scooterlord
Will play a bit later, too excited :D
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Just had a presentation of my former boss (he moved up, I did not).

Passion = your excitement is where it all starts

Competence = reading (like the site above about fast driving), learning from others (like looking at replays, Weekly Race Series) and getting the skills (driving a lot) is needed to reach:

Performance = getting really fast

Many people I encounter that have been driving since the 80ies (not really sims, but still) are not the best now. Look at the speed Mad94 got at 14-15 years old, he just has an edge over many of us. Your passion might not make you the best, but the best you can get.
Not being the best is no shame, as long as you can live your passion.

P.S.: My boss was how about his passion for Delta flight (world champion in team a few years ago) stimulates his professional career too.

too arrogant, but know I see that there's much to learn.
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From some feedback from Jordan Tresson it seems the above is something that was held against Daniel Holland in the GT Academy 2010, even the best have to be open to learn, how they work with what they have learned is what generally makes them great. It got the impression from Maz's input that in the GT Academy Gavin Gough, sports psychologist and NLP practitioner for GT Academy and RJN, judges mental strength and confidence and has quite some influence.

Reference on the Jordan quote, who also states it is hear say...
http://www.gt5rs.com/gt-academy-f51/live-from-silverstone-t1256.html

D'après ce qu'on m'a dit, Dan a eu une attitude super stupide dans la voiture : l'instructeur lui donnait des conseils et il a(urait) dit "Non, c'est bon, je sais ce que je fais", sans compter qu'il a pas assisté au meeting d'hier soir parce qu'il était parti dormir...
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Sadly I have to admit, that there's more to learn for me then I thought at first. (Next week a circuit training planned, do not expect to get anywhere close to a limit, but going there to learn a lot).
 
I don't know much about using a wheel...

But I noticed with the pad, despite great improvements in my times, the front runners in online were running 1-2 seconds per lap faster at Suzuka (Providing we both get a clean lap). On top of this they were more consistent than me.

It's simple, you just need to put in the hours of practice and you will improve. If you put in the hours your times will naturally start to tumble. I guarantee you that you will not notice a difference in your race lines or your braking points, you just suddenly become capable of carrying more speed through the corners.

Once you know the basics and you know the circuit well, you just need to keep practicing at it to run with the top guys.
 
Finally, I squeezed some time to play a bit today, and guess what... I got gold in Eiger... FINALLY! After playing for about 20 mins, and doing rounds between 1:15:xx-1:16:xx, I finally beat it at 1:14:491! And it was a clean lap, no drafting behind faster cars :)

Next time I'll try to get gold in Eiger reverse with the M7. Looks like it's a lot tougher, I haven't even got silver here, and today that I played for about 10mins I am in the 1:18:xx spectrum... I need to drop 4 secs... we shall see...

...I gues everyone is excited (or not so much about the 800 cars not having cockpits) with the trailers, but I still hope someone reads my post here!

/me excited! :D
 
scooterlord
Finally, I squeezed some time to play a bit today, and guess what... I got gold in Eiger... FINALLY! After playing for about 20 mins, and doing rounds between 1:15:xx-1:16:xx, I finally beat it at 1:14:491! And it was a clean lap, no drafting behind faster cars :)

Next time I'll try to get gold in Eiger reverse with the M7. Looks like it's a lot tougher, I haven't even got silver here, and today that I played for about 10mins I am in the 1:18:xx spectrum... I need to drop 4 secs... we shall see...

...I gues everyone is excited (or not so much about the 800 cars not having cockpits) with the trailers, but I still hope someone reads my post here!

/me excited! :D
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They will have cockpits, just not "incredibly detailed" ones I believe(?).
 

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