How did JFK die?

[PeterJB]

And 13.5 years late to the discussion.

 

[Michael88]

Problems with a) include the fact that it would have been impossible to reload the hunting rifle Harvey was using so quickly as to deliver 3 shots in under 12 seconds. The loading mechanism took only one bullet at a time.

I'm a target shooter myself and I always have to chuckle when people say that its not possible to get off 3 accurate shots with a bolt action rifle in under 12 seconds. Its very doable with a little training; I've done it myself many many times.
4 seconds per shot for aiming is plenty at those ranges with an optical sight, and with a little training you can run the bolt so fast the reloading speed becomes nearly negligible.

Did Oswald shoot JFK? No idea, but I have over a decade of intensive target shooting under my belt and I can say that I have absolutely no doubt in my mind that a trained marksman could pull those shots off.

Watch this, thats how fast you can cycle a bolt on a bolt action rifle.

1:20

 

[Liquid]

How did JFK die?
Gunshot wound to the head.

By whom and why?
Another matter entirely.

 

[Danoff]

I'm a target shooter myself and I always have to chuckle when people say that its not possible to get off 3 accurate shots with a bolt action rifle in under 12 seconds. Its very doable with a little training; I've done it myself many many times.

3 accurate shots hitting a moving target that is changing speeds? I think really though that it's just 2 shots.

According to the "accident" theory though, one of the bullets was consistent with a bolt action rifle and the other was consistent with a SS agent rifle.

 

[a6m5]

I've had casual interest on the subject after seeing "JFK" by Oliver Stone, so I have read & seen stories & theories on it here & there. There just seems to be so many coincidences or mysteries surrounding the incident from before the parade, to postmortem examination of JFK's body. It's not like I've done any research on this, so I have no idea how much of the proofs or coincidences hold merit, or are just paranoia. I do find it to be one of the most intriguing piece of U.S. History though. Very tragic, too.

 

[sems4arsenal]

This thread is half my age.

 

[Dotini]

I've read numerous books and articles on this subject. I was affected by it at the time, and have never been satisfied by the ever-evolving explanations that have surfaced. But IMO the most important developments have occurred in recent years; the official CIA historian officially admitted in print that facts and data were withheld from the Warren Commission and from the later congressional investigation, and that the CIA was more involved with Oswald and Cuban dissident groups than previously admitted. All this is official. Two now deceased CIA agents, Doug Bazata and Lucien Conein, have declared in writing that they were aware of and in Bazata's case, involved in a foreign plot to assassinate JFK. I've written about this extensively in the Illuminati and Conspiracy thread in the Opinions forum.

 

[Michael88]

3 accurate shots hitting a moving target that is changing speeds? I think really though that it's just 2 shots.

According to the "accident" theory though, one of the bullets was consistent with a bolt action rifle and the other was consistent with a SS agent rifle.

Shooting a relatively large target at a short range that is moving in a predictable way with consistent speed. Also, the target was not fast enough to require any leading. Thats still a perfectly doable shot for a skilled shooter.


Also, what makes me wonder is how they managed to recover the bullets to match them to firearms. Thats very hard with rifle bullets because they're going so fast (2400-3500 feet per second) that if they hit anything solid they usually disintegrate, even projectiles that weren't designed to deform. Shoot a rifle bullet at concrete, stone or thick steel and it will shatter into a hundred tiny pieces.

 

[RUI]

Libra, by Don DeLillo is a great fictional account of the JFK murder.

On a more technical side, there's always this:

 

[Dotini]

Also, what makes me wonder is how they managed to recover the bullets to match them to firearms. Thats very hard with rifle bullets because they're going so fast (2400-3500 feet per second) that if they hit anything solid they usually disintegrate, even projectiles that weren't designed to deform. Shoot a rifle bullet at concrete, stone or thick steel and it will shatter into a hundred tiny pieces.

per wikipedia,
According to the single-bullet theory, a three-centimeter (1.2″)-long copper-jacketed lead-core 6.5×52mm Mannlicher–Carcano rifle bullet fired from the sixth floor of the Texas School Book Depository passed through President Kennedy’s neck and Governor Connally’s chest and wrist and embedded itself in the Governor’s thigh. If so, this bullet traversed 15 layers of clothing, 7 layers of skin, and approximately 15 inches of tissue, struck a necktie knot, removed 4 inches of rib, and shattered a radius bone. The bullet was found on a gurney in the corridor at the Parkland Memorial Hospital, in Dallas, after the assassination

Most pro- and anti-conspiracy theorists believe[5] that the single-bullet theory is essential to the Warren Commission's conclusion that Oswald acted alone. The reason for this is timing: if, as the Warren Commission found, President Kennedy was wounded some time between frame 210 and 225 of the Zapruder film[6] and Governor Connally was wounded in the back/chest no later than frame 240,[7] there would not have been enough time between the wounding of the two men for Oswald to have fired two shots from his bolt-action rifle. FBI marksmen, who test-fired the rifle for the Warren Commission, concluded that the "minimum time for getting off two successive well-aimed shots on the rifle is approximately 2 and a quarter seconds" or 41 to 42 Zapruder frames.[8][9]



^This is the so-called "magic bullet", if the chain of evidence was not violated.

 

[Liquid]

According to the single-bullet theory, a three-centimeter (1.2″)-long copper-jacketed lead-core 6.5×52mm Mannlicher–Carcano rifle bullet fired from the sixth floor of the Texas School Book Depository passed through President Kennedy’s neck and Governor Connally’s chest and wrist and embedded itself in the Governor’s thigh. If so, this bullet traversed 15 layers of clothing, 7 layers of skin, and approximately 15 inches of tissue, struck a necktie knot, removed 4 inches of rib, and shattered a radius bone. The bullet was found on a gurney in the corridor at the Parkland Memorial Hospital, in Dallas, after the assassination

Trajectory according to the theory:

Trajectory according to critics:

 

[Obelisk]

Actually, they were able to successfully replicate the shot with Oswald's Carcino rifle and ammo in a Discovery Channel documentary. The only difference is the bullet did not make a seventh wound because it expended its energy breaking two ribs instead of one.

Overpenetration was a know issue with the model of rifle used.

And before someone tries to argue that there was a second shooter because of Kennedy's head movement, let me explain Newton's third law:
Every force has an equal and opposite force.

So what happened was Kennedy's brain absored a good amount of the energy from the shot and acted like a rocket engine, pulling the head backwards.


Documentary below, but I'm not sure if it's the correct one:

 

[Dotini]

A good, fun theory here. I have a ton of additional evidence to identify the man on the overpass.

 

[Liquid]

Part of me does wonder that if there was a conspiracy to kill JFK, what might they have done had Zapruder not happened to be in the perfect place at the perfect time recording him being shot? It could have been the perfect crime had it not been captured on film.

Had there only been a few select photos of the incident instead of a frame-by-frame dissection it might have become something which was not speculated or talked about as much. It might have been just an "unfortunate tragedy".

 

[Bjorn Lucas]

through a bullethole!!

 

[W3H5]

If you theory junkies are into the JFK deal then the Kurt Cobain conspiracy would be right up your alley. You don't even need to be a fan to appreciate how his 'suicide' is more than a bit suspect given all the facts.

What's also very interesting is how the guy that shot Bobby Kennedy claimed to have been mentally manipulated, a feat which Derren Brown has showed to be easily done with the right tricks.

Sorry for going off topic but I thought some of you might be interested.

 

[Dotini]

Part of me does wonder that if there was a conspiracy to kill JFK, what might they have done had Zapruder not happened to be in the perfect place at the perfect time recording him being shot? It could have been the perfect crime had it not been captured on film.

Had there only been a few select photos of the incident instead of a frame-by-frame dissection it might have become something which was not speculated or talked about as much. It might have been just an "unfortunate tragedy".

The Zapruder film, particularly frame 313, leaves the overwhelming impression that JFK's head exploded, spewing much of his brain and skull on the trunk lid of the Lincoln Continental, which Jackie crawled up upon to retrieve.

Even though the CIA has officially admitted to a cover up - withholding evidence from the Warren Commission, from the House Select Committee on Assassinations, and of its own secretive dealings with "Cuban dissidents" and Oswald, the whole truth of the assassination is not known and most likely never will be. Too much evidence has been destroyed and original participants passed on.

My conclusions:
For continuity of government, domestic tranqulity and other reasons, it was best that we Americans and the world believe(d) that Kennedy was a hero felled by a lone assassin's bullet. Sometimes a necessary and useful lie is preferable to an ugly truth, and this is, or was, one of them. But the ugly truth is Kennedy had few friends in the world, and many important and powerful people were happy to see him go. He deeply offended and threatened the CIA, and may have been on a course to terminate the Agency. I don't believe the Agency plotted to kill him, but it did know from the beginning who did. In effect, they have admitted who did it: "Cuban dissidents".

 

[W3H5]

Don't the full documents on this become public very soon?

 

[Dotini]

Don't the full documents on this become public very soon?

Later this year - fall I think - tens of thousands of known but redacted documents will disclosed, and a few thousand previously unknown documents are scheduled to be released. It is said most of these documents relate to the CIA, and some to the FBI.