How do I deal with controler drivers ?

[mr-ramsbottom]

Hi I'm looking for some advice or strategies, or maybe some techniques, in how to deal with rammers.

I've been watching all my replays and what I'm noticing is in every single race, drivers that hit me on entries to corners and exiting out of corners is always controler drivers,

My educated guess for why this keeps happening is I think they must be coasting into corners rather than trail braking, as I'm noticing there all of there brakes a lot quicker than me, I'm thinking this mainly not deliberate but more of a case they struggle to trail brake and or stear the car as good as a wheel and pedals can.

But so far this week I haven't had one single race where I haven't been rammed off, and this is despite my lap qualifying times being top of the tree for the b class league , Maggiore and Bathurst this week has been the worst week I've ever had, I've had 30+ races where I've been rammed and as a result my DNR has gone from being one win away from getting into the a class league to now almost going back to the c class league. It's been that bad I'm depressed and actually now scared to race online, I'm even on the verger of suspending my PSN account.

It's got so bad Im having to wait now untill next week for a new race.

But I can't find anyway to stop it, so I'm wondering what's the best way to overcome this.

 

[Lomic]

Must be controller drivers, obviously. PD should ban them altogether.

 

[Darla Starch]

Must be controller drivers, obviously. PD should ban them altogether.

PD here, I'm on in 🫡

(FR though you're gonna get dinguses whenever you open up a game to online play, no matter the control type)
(also technically speaking a wheel/pedal setup is a specialized controller )

 

[Famine]

is always controler drivers

It's actually surprisingly difficult to tell who is using a "controller" (a DualSense/DualShock or similar pad device; as noted above, wheels are just "steering controllers") and who isn't, especially online when you have to contend with latency that results in cars (and their inputs) jerking about. There's also quite a few ways of using a controller: buttons, sticks, triggers, and gyro.

Given that, I'd love to know how it is you're determining that every time you get hit on corner entry/exit it's a "controller" driver.

 

[mr-ramsbottom]

It's actually surprisingly difficult to tell who is using a "controller" (a DualSense/DualShock or similar pad device; as noted above, wheels are just "steering controllers") and who isn't, especially online when you have to contend with latency that results in cars (and their inputs) jerking about. There's also quite a few ways of using a controller: buttons, sticks, triggers, and gyro.

Given that, I'd love to know how it is you're determining that every time you get hit on corner entry/exit it's a "controller" driver.

It's actually quite easy to spot controllers drivers when the controler drivers turn into corners there cars will slightly twitch left and right, or there car makes a straight line turn rather than a true arc, I've not once mistaken a controler driver for a wheel driver when I've chatted to people online..

There may be one or two exceptions out of a thousand controler drivers where by there harder to spot.

But I would of thought for racers who drive a lot online they can spot this a lot ?

 

[Famine]

It's actually quite easy to spot controllers drivers when the controler drivers turn into corners there cars will slightly twitch left and right, or there car makes a straight line turn rather than a true arc

That's not accurate at all, and that perceived movement can be (and almost always is) caused by latency as the game updates the car's "real" position in place of its estimate.

There is actually a way to spot it, but that isn't it.

But I would of thought for racers who drive a lot online they can spot this a lot ?

Mmm-hmm.

Apropos of nothing, I'd estimate that >95% of the playerbase uses a DualShock/DualSense (or similar pad), probably reducing slightly among Sport Mode players and then more so towards the top end. Nonetheless, we've seen controller players qualify for, and win, the GT World Series finals...

 

[benjoi84]

Confirmation bias or what?

(I feel insulted)

 

[stpatty]

Have you considered driving faster?

 

[mr-ramsbottom]

That's not accurate at all, and that perceived movement can be (and almost always is) caused by latency as the game updates the car's "real" position in place of its estimate.

There is actually a way to spot it, but that isn't it.

Mmm-hmm.

Apropos of nothing, I'd estimate that >95% of the playerbase uses a DualShock/DualSense (or similar pad), probably reducing slightly among Sport Mode players and then more so towards the top end. Nonetheless, we've seen controller players qualify for, and win, the GT World Series finals...

Well I've always spotted them my way, but really does this matter how you spot them ?.

I need advice really on what to do about my situation.

Confirmation bias or what?

(I feel insulted)

I don't know why you would feel insulted ? Are you taking this personally ?.

Please don't be so sensitive, I'm only asking for advice, your controler skills maybe better than others, but you should know you yourself you can't speak for all controler drivers.

 

[watto79]

I'm only asking for advice

You're issue isn't with controller users, it's with repeatedly getting involved in incidents.

 

[mr-ramsbottom]

Have you considered driving faster?

You're issue isn't with controller users, it's with repeatedly getting involved in incidents.

You mean like the luck of draw, ?.

Controler drivers would not even know just how much other controler drivers don't bump them from behind when braking, because I've noticed they all generally brake the same way they generally let of of there brakes to early and then coast.

So really for most controler drives but maybe not all, if a controler driver has another controler driver behind them, the one behind is generally going to brake the same way as the other controler driver in front of them, and there for less likely to bump him.

On the other hand if you have a wheel driver who's use to his pedals driving behind a controler driver, I can mostly all of the time brake according and not go into the back of the controler driver.

However when the situation is reversed and the controler driver is behind me more of than not I'll get bumped on one part of the track.

But it happens a lot less when I have wheel drivers behind me and who are probably more experienced in racing than others.

But yeah if you bump someone and gain the lead I think it's only fair you should give the lead back.

But I guess I've had an unlucky week with who I've been paired with.

Have you considered driving faster?

Yes 😉.

Trouble is having the fastest qualifying time in race isn't always favourable,

 

[benjoi84]

Well I've always spotted them my way, but really does this matter how you spot them ?.

I need advice really on what to do about my situation.

I don't know why you would feel insulted ? Are you taking this personally ?.

Please don't be so sensitive, I'm only asking for advice, your controler skills maybe better than others, but you should know you yourself you can't speak for all controler drivers.

I said confirmation bias because you're appointing "controller driver" to every one who conforms to your checklist. In face there's probably loads of controller drivers who are perfectly clean but you just don't notice them. Equally there's probably a load of wheel users who are guilty of traits you associate with controller users.

That's the definition of confirmation bias.

If you'd have said "how do I avoid Spanish drivers because they can't drive" I would have also felt the same way.

Your qualm is with dirty and careless drivers, not a specific subset of them based on an arbitrary quality.

 

[watto79]

You mean like the luck of draw, ?.

Controler drivers would not even know just how much other controler drivers don't bump them from behind when braking, because I've noticed they all generally brake the same way they generally let of of there brakes to early and then coast.

So really for most controler drives but maybe not all, if a controler driver has another controler driver behind them, the one behind is generally going to brake the same way as the other controler driver in front of them, and there for less likely to bump him.

On the other hand if you have a wheel driver who's use to his pedals driving behind a controler driver, I can mostly all of the time brake according and not go into the back of the controler driver.

However when the situation is reversed and the controler driver is behind me more of than not I'll get bumped on one part of the track.

But it happens a lot less when I have wheel drivers behind me and who are probably more experienced in racing than others.

But yeah if you bump someone and gain the lead I think it's only fair you should give the lead back.

But I guess I've had an unlucky week with who I've been paired with.

Yes 😉.

Trouble is having the fastest qualifying time in race isn't always favourable,

I don't even know where to start with all of that. I race on a wheel and don't experience any of these issues you seem to be.

Focus on yourself and not everyone else is my advice.

Also, you're racing in DR B. You'll be racing against people with vastly different abilities and braking points, regardless of input device.

 

[Famine]

Well I've always spotted them my way

Mmm, you think that you have, sure, but your description of your way is not reliable and can easily be confused with the ever-present latency.

Again, a significant majority of players are controller users. You're asking how to avoid the significant majority of players because you think they drive a certain way - for no real reason.


There is a phrase which goes "if you run into an asshole in the morning, you ran into an asshole. If you run into assholes all day..."

 

[mr-ramsbottom]

I said confirmation bias because you're appointing "controller driver" to every one who conforms to your checklist. In face there's probably loads of controller drivers who are perfectly clean but you just don't notice them. Equally there's probably a load of wheel users who are guilty of traits you associate with controller users.

That's the definition of confirmation bias.

If you'd have said "how do I avoid Spanish drivers because they can't drive" I would have also felt the same way.

Your qualm is with dirty and careless drivers, not a specific subset of them based on an arbitrary quality.

I've been. Thinking a lot on this, and what to do, and I think the only way I can stop it, is to not race in bumper cam mode and get to the same level racing where you only see the the rev clocks, as at least that way you can see the car behind in full view, then when I know there going to hit me I can make necessary adjustments in defensive tactics, like making sure they hit me straight on or letting go of the accelerator immediately just before impact. at least then I'll have more of chance of not skidding of,

And on another note I did state I don't think any of this had been dirty or intentional. I'm thinking it's more of case most controler drivers can't trail brake that good,.and they have to trade trail braking for coasting, at least that's how I'm seeing it with the controler drivers I'm getting paired with

But it really been quite disheartening to watch my replays where by none of them have been getting penalties ?.

Then I actually feel sorry for the controler drivers as I can see much of an effort there putting in to try and keep there car in a racing line.

 

[Meythia]

I said confirmation bias

Maybe this term is unknown.

because I've noticed they all generally brake the same way they generally let of of there brakes to early and then coast.

So maybe that is just those players who have braking line assist activated ...

 

[AlexWilmot]

Use your radar,
Be aware of the cars around you,
Don’t discriminate on peoples use of controller,
Be a better person

 

[mr-ramsbottom]

Use your radar,
Be aware of the cars around you,
Don’t discriminate on peoples use of controller,
Be a better person

I'm not being discriminating, that's is just not me, neither do I need to be a better person,

Maybe the issue is here that because I've mentioned my problem seems to be mostly with controler drivers that people who use a controler are automatically thinking they feel the need to defend all other controler drivers, or people are taking offense,

In my opening statement I don't think I could of been any fairer in my remark given the situation I have faced all week everyday.

Because really when your putting a lot of effort in to get the best b class qualifying times and then being subject to having every race ruined, I myself think it's very gentlemen of me to be so tolerant, and to still race in a gentlemen way, such as giving space on dangerous corners,. and mostly always only ever overtaking on fast straights,.or such as giving the lead back if I do make a mistake.

Or such as examining a replay to see why before getting cross,


I really think things could be done to resolve this situation many people face in race, however my views or suggestions will not change the situation.

But really any contact in an over take should be immediately be penalised, but it never is.

It's only penalised if the person on the receiving end loses his rear end all together.

Now if any bump was penalised regardless of what type of driver offends be it wheel or controllers then most of thesee things would probably stop.

Personally what I would like to see is gt7 immediately put your car back in front of the car who has bumped you, and to still give the offending a person a penalty

 

[Famine]

Maybe the issue is here that because I've mentioned my problem seems to be mostly with controler drivers that people who use a controler are automatically thinking they feel the need to defend all other controler drivers, or people are taking offense,

An alternative explanation is that you're just wrong...

 

[stpatty]

Yes 😉.

Trouble is having the fastest qualifying time in race isn't always favourable,

In all seriousness

I think you can generally tell if someone's using a controller, while you're driving. What Famine said about twitchiness is pretty much correct - netcode and internet connections are a much bigger influence on what happens than someone's input method. There are also players who use controller who are among the fastest in the world, so the device someone is using doesn't mean much in itself.

The biggest problems for controller users are tyre wear and how much steering angle you can actually use. Tyre wear is more pronounced with a controller compared to a wheel, and in races with tyre wear active you can tell if someone's on a controller because you broadly know what sort of performance they should be able to manage. I use a wheel, so if they start to struggle before I do, that tells me they're using a controller. That's all there is though. Unless you look at every single replay in frame by frame detail there is no way you can know for certain how someone is playing the game.

With that in mind, I will tell you my experience level. Over 1200 races in GT Sport. Nearly 300 (I think) in GT7. I've been high DR A with a controller, low A+ with a wheel and am currently low A with a wheel in GT7. If you are a DR B driver then I guarantee that 99% of the problems you face with contact from other drivers has nothing to do with their input method. You are racing at a level which is predominately made up of drivers who aren't that good, are inconsistent and who will have widely ranging ideas of what "clean" driving is. All of this means you will very rarely have a 100% clean race every time you play.

This isn't a you problem, it's not a them problem, it's not a controller problem, it's just a reality of a skill based matchmaking system. The only thing you can ever control is your race and how you drive.

Because really when your putting a lot of effort in to get the best b class qualifying times and then being subject to having every race ruined, I myself think it's very gentlemen of me to be so tolerant, and to still race in a gentlemen way, such as giving space on dangerous corners,. and mostly always only ever overtaking on fast straights,.or such as giving the lead back if I do make a mistake.

Or such as examining a replay to see why before getting cross,

This is a good attitude to have, and however frustrating it might be to lose places, focusing on driving cleanly will almost always lead to positive results rather than the alternative. If this is actually how you drive then good. Keep that up and keep learning and improving. But don't assume that because from your perspective you drive cleanly that anyone else owes you anything for it.

 

[mr-ramsbottom]

In all seriousness

I think you can generally tell if someone's using a controller, while you're driving. What Famine said about twitchiness is pretty much correct - netcode and internet connections are a much bigger influence on what happens than someone's input method. There are also players who use controller who are among the fastest in the world, so the device someone is using doesn't mean much in itself.

The biggest problems for controller users are tyre wear and how much steering angle you can actually use. Tyre wear is more pronounced with a controller compared to a wheel, and in races with tyre wear active you can tell if someone's on a controller because you broadly know what sort of performance they should be able to manage. I use a wheel, so if they start to struggle before I do, that tells me they're using a controller. That's all there is though. Unless you look at every single replay in frame by frame detail there is no way you can know for certain how someone is playing the game.

With that in mind, I will tell you my experience level. Over 1200 races in GT Sport. Nearly 300 (I think) in GT7. I've been high DR A with a controller, low A+ with a wheel and am currently low A with a wheel in GT7. If you are a DR B driver then I guarantee that 99% of the problems you face with contact from other drivers has nothing to do with their input method. You are racing at a level which is predominately made up of drivers who aren't that good, are inconsistent and who will have widely ranging ideas of what "clean" driving is. All of this means you will very rarely have a 100% clean race every time you play.

This isn't a you problem, it's not a them problem, it's not a controller problem, it's just a reality of a skill based matchmaking system. The only thing you can ever control is your race and how you drive.


This is a good attitude to have, and however frustrating it might be to lose places, focusing on driving cleanly will almost always lead to positive results rather than the alternative. If this is actually how you drive then good. Keep that up and keep learning and improving. But don't assume that because from your perspective you drive cleanly that anyone else owes you anything for it.

Thanks for your very considerate reply here, maybe your completely right in your reasoning, and maybe I may not be completely right in mine.

Your right it has been a very difficult week for me.

It's been more frustrating for me given not many b class drivers have set a lap time better than 1.55.580 on Maggiore this week and I haven't had a single top three in this race for more than 30 races now because I've been rammed off in every race on the first lap I've been trying to get into the a class for a while now, simply so I can race with more experience drivers, in the hope i can improve further by following there racing lines in race.

 

[eran0004]

I'm not being discriminating, that's is just not me, neither do I need to be a better person,

Maybe the issue is here that because I've mentioned my problem seems to be mostly with controler drivers that people who use a controler are automatically thinking they feel the need to defend all other controler drivers, or people are taking offense,

The issue you're having is with ramming drivers. What type of controller they're using is irrelevant. You think you have found some correlation between dualsense/dualshock users and ramming drivers, but the fact is that most players are using those controllers so your observation that it's mostly those players that seem to be ramming you would be expected even if the type of controller has nothing to do with it.

It's like taking a look at car crashes, observing that most of them include cars with four wheels and drawing the conclusion that cars with four wheels are more dangerous than others.

 

[stpatty]

Thanks for your very considerate reply here, maybe your completely right in your reasoning, and maybe I may not be completely right in mine.

Your right it has been a very difficult week for me.

It's been more frustrating for me given not many b class drivers have set a lap time better than 1.55.580 on Maggiore this week and I haven't had a single top three in this race for more than 30 races now because I've been rammed off in every race on the first lap I've been trying to get into the a class for a while now, simply so I can race with more experience drivers, in the hope i can improve further by following there racing lines in race.

You'll find clowns at every level. People at every level will tell you certain ranks are cleaner or dirtier than others. If anything, the higher you go the more desperate people can get.

You have to remember with daily races as well that regardless of what DR you are, the consistency/ability of people can vary wildly. When I made it to DR A+ on GT Sport I spent the day doing daily race B around St. Croix. I still have a replay saved of the first race from that day. I started 4th, there were two A+ guys in 1st and 2nd then an A guy in 3rd. He'd qualified a few tenths faster than me. This was on probably my best track, driving the GT-R which I was better with than any other car and which was the meta for that race.

I don't know if the guy ahead of me got lucky after doing 100 laps, I don't know if he was running that pace consistently, or what. But in the race he was absolutely terrible. No spatial awareness, reacting badly to people making basic racing manoeuvres alongside him and generally just looking very flustered by the fact he had to try and drive as fast as he had in practice while there were other cars running next to him at a comparable pace. Just absolutely clueless. I had a couple of races with him and every time either he or someone else ended up in the gravel somewhere because he clearly didn't know what he should be doing.

In a daily race you could be on the grid with someone young, old, good, bad, they could have done 100 races that week or 1, good day, bad day, anything. Worrying about what they do to you - no matter how frustrating it is, and with 1500 races over 6 years trust me I get it - will ruin your own experience. Just stick with it and keep it pointing in the right direction.

 

[GTSportster]

Hi I'm looking for some advice or strategies, or maybe some techniques, in how to deal with rammers.

I've been watching all my replays and what I'm noticing is in every single race, drivers that hit me on entries to corners and exiting out of corners is always controler drivers,

My educated guess for why this keeps happening is I think they must be coasting into corners rather than trail braking, as I'm noticing there all of there brakes a lot quicker than me, I'm thinking this mainly not deliberate but more of a case they struggle to trail brake and or stear the car as good as a wheel and pedals can.

But so far this week I haven't had one single race where I haven't been rammed off, and this is despite my lap qualifying times being top of the tree for the b class league , Maggiore and Bathurst this week has been the worst week I've ever had, I've had 30+ races where I've been rammed and as a result my DNR has gone from being one win away from getting into the a class league to now almost going back to the c class league. It's been that bad I'm depressed and actually now scared to race online, I'm even on the verger of suspending my PSN account.

It's got so bad Im having to wait now untill next week for a new race.

But I can't find anyway to stop it, so I'm wondering what's the best way to overcome this.

How do you know they’re controller drivers?

 

[benjoi84]

@mr-ramsbottom

I'm glad you're starting to see some sense in this conversation.

Like our friend @stpatty here rightly says, you have to just grind it out at the lower levels until you can place a bit more trust into the driver's around you.

My No.1 aim when I bought GT Sport was to absolutely get myself into DR B/SR S as soon as possible. From there it'll hopefully all start coming together.

I'm hoping you find some peace on the track, and some enjoyment!

PS. Remember, this community is really great for feedback on specific incidents and advice on everything race related. It's a great resource!!