How much time can a wheel shave off?

[JohnnyWoo]

I was wondering if any of you have an educated guess on how much time switching from controller to wheel can shave off? As of a couple hours ago I'm ranked #148 in my region using a controler with directional buttons. I can't use the sticks very well for some reason. I could probably shave a second or so off of my combined time, but not much more than that using the controler. I think I'm going to go ahead and get a Driving Force GT wheel tomorrow. My question is how much will this help? Would it easily bump me into the top 100 once I get used to it, or is that hoping for too much? Thanks!

 

[RaDeuX]

The wheel will take some time getting used to, that's for sure. It's my second day with the wheel and I'm still tackling Tsukuba with my 1:06:xxx personal record. I managed to get a 1:07:xxx on the wheel today, so I should be able to break my record in a few days or so.

 

[velocity-wolf]

I recall reading a post somewhere by a TRC member, saying that wheels take about 50 hours of play time to fully adjust to.

 

[onearmbandit]

I recall reading a post somewhere by a TRC member, saying that wheels take about 50 hours of play time to fully adjust to.

50hrs? They must be slow on the uptake lol.

 

[Sohvakettu]

I was wondering if any of you have an educated guess on how much time switching from controller to wheel can shave off

Switching over will make you slower for some time. After you get used to it, it will be a little quicker but the major benefit would propably be a higher consistency rather than lap times.

 

[theyoytoy]

I started using my wheel yesterday, still trying to get used to it.

Have been grinding on Rome with the Zonda R, been doing 1:06.xxx laps with the controller, now I am getting low 1:03.xxx laps with the wheel.

Using a Fanatec Porche Turbo S wheel.

And the Formunal GT car I think is much easier to drive with a wheel.

 

[SuperCobraJet]

One look at the leaderboards and you can see the wheel drivers have a significant edge.

The main difference being in the use of a pedal for the throttle, which apparently provides much more travel and proportional control over the percentage of throttle applied, as opposed to the DS3.

This provides the biggest advantage I can see.

 

[FC3S5]

Doesn't the wheel also allow you to go lock to lock way faster than the controller does? Like in the F1 car going through a fast chicane it takes forever with the controller to change directions on the controller even though you can flip the joystick from the left to right in less than a second. I don't have a wheel but may get one at some point, and this could be one of the main reasons for me.

 

[JohnnyWoo]

Thanks for the input everyone. Has anyone actually started GT Academy with the controller and switched to a wheel? If so, how did it affect your time? I think I'm going to go buy one in the next couple of hours, so I'll report back tonight.

 

[scir16v]

Doesn't the wheel also allow you to go lock to lock way faster than the controller does? Like in the F1 car going through a fast chicane it takes forever with the controller to change directions on the controller even though you can flip the joystick from the left to right in less than a second. I don't have a wheel but may get one at some point, and this could be one of the main reasons for me.

You'll go lock to lock with a controller faster, and that's part of the problem. imagine if you go immediately go to lock with your car, you would understeer. that's part of the problem with the controller. It's much smoother with a wheel.

 

[ZROC]

I'm on the verge of busting out my old DFP. I know there is still some time I can gain with the controller, but I have a feeling that the more precise wheel and throttle input from the wheel will help with shaving a couple seconds I need on my times. Its just a matter of space and need of a "proper" cockpit.

 

[TRC factory]

It all depends on how much room you have to gain time in the first place A wheel will not magically make everyone faster. I made the switch at the end of Forza 2. My first wheel was the MS wireless. It took me a few days to be able to match my lap times that I had set with my controller. Some of them I was never able to match. In all fairness though, I had really put a lot of effort into setting those times with the controller, and the margin for improvement was very small.

Then I bought the Fanatec 911 Turbo S for Forza 3. However, it only arrived a month or so after Forza 3 came out, so I started with my MS wheel. Once the Fanatec arrived, it was a whole new adaptation process. I was slower at first, but eventually I was able to match or surpass my MS times with the new wheel.

In GT 5 I am faster with the controller than with the Fanatec

 

[ZROC]

My issue with the controller seems to be "turning" the wheel to much and not really knowing it and then when it comes time to put the power down the car wants to rope out.

 

[velocity-wolf]

Thanks for the input everyone. Has anyone actually started GT Academy with the controller and switched to a wheel? If so, how did it affect your time? I think I'm going to go buy one in the next couple of hours, so I'll report back tonight.

I'm rank 45th overall in West right now with a DS3. I know I will make it to round 2; round 3 is my realistic goal. However, if I want to go to finals, they will require everyone to use the DFGT wheel there - So the way I see things is, why not save some cash, buy the DFGT instead of a G27 / Fanatec, and simultaneously practice for the last round? Also:

It all depends on how much room you have to gain time in the first place

Switching over will make you slower for some time. After you get used to it, it will be a little quicker but the major benefit would propably be a higher consistency rather than lap times.

+1

I'm curious if they'll allow the bungie cord for the brake at finals...



Also, as an afterthought, for what it's worth... the following functional keys are mapped on my DS3 as follows:
L2 - Brake | R2 - Gas
Left Analog - Steer | Right Analog: Left - Look Left | Right - Look Right | Up - Shift Up | Down - Shift Down.
O - Hand brake

- If you have to use a DS3 controller, do not use directional keys to steer. You have less control over the input (e.g. either full right lock, dead center (not steering), or left lock. Yes, you can get a little in-between, but not as much as with the analog).
- Using the right analog to shift Up/Down is already almost second nature if you're at all familiar with sequential transmissions. The shifting action is natural and does not effect any other key when you have to do it, seeing as you can simply bump the stick very quickly in either direction with your right thumb.
- You can feather both gas and brake with L2 and R2, and both buttons have enough movement range that they provide a decent application range.
- I find this layout will optimize movement and function mid-race so that when you need to do one thing, it does not deter or take away from another (e.g. you can hand brake, shift, steer, brake, or gas, all at the same time without having to let off of another button or contort your hand).


The biggest adjustments to the DFGT that I personally forsee for myself is probably the difference in steering and braking (the gas pedal is probably the easiest thing to adjust to in any car ). With a wheel, you have to make a much larger movement to change the direction of steering than you do with a controller, since you can travel lock to lock much quicker, as described above. Having said that, learning to move my arms quickly, but accurately, is going to be the biggest challenge for me. I don't think the Brake pedal will be as hard to get used to, especially if you mod it with resistance (aka the bungie cord that TRC Hunk posted a youtube video of in another thread).

Let me know how you fair with the wheel Johnny.

 

[GT_Prologue5]

The thing you have going on with buttons is that it's full throttle or no throttle. The steerings also less weighted (with a wheel, it must turn with more effort)

So while your turning may seem more responsive, it's no match for the ability of throttle control a wheel has.

But don't go in thinking "wheel! Hell yeah!" I just bought a DFGT, and boy am I having the hardest time getting used to it.

 

[willsc2007]

I recall reading a post somewhere by a TRC member, saying that wheels take about 50 hours of play time to fully adjust to.

Took me about 20-30 hrs to get the full understanding of the wheel.But overall in my region(southeast) i`m 38th and thats about 30min per track.Will try to get in the top 10 today.

 

[TRC_Hunk]

I'm curious if they'll allow the bungie cord for the brake at finals...

I wonder about this too. But if by chance I end up making it Im gonna bring one anyway.

 

[JohnnyWoo]

I'm rank 45th overall in West right now with a DS3. I know I will make it to round 2; round 3 is my realistic goal. However, if I want to go to finals, they will require everyone to use the DFGT wheel there - So the way I see things is, why not save some cash, buy the DFGT instead of a G27 / Fanatec, and simultaneously practice for the last round? Also:





+1

I'm curious if they'll allow the bungie cord for the brake at finals...



Also, as an afterthought, for what it's worth... the following functional keys are mapped on my DS3 as follows:
L2 - Brake | R2 - Gas
Left Analog - Steer | Right Analog: Left - Look Left | Right - Look Right | Up - Shift Up | Down - Shift Down.
O - Hand brake

- If you have to use a DS3 controller, do not use directional keys to steer. You have less control over the input (e.g. either full right lock, dead center (not steering), or left lock. Yes, you can get a little in-between, but not as much as with the analog).
- Using the right analog to shift Up/Down is already almost second nature if you're at all familiar with sequential transmissions. The shifting action is natural and does not effect any other key when you have to do it, seeing as you can simply bump the stick very quickly in either direction with your right thumb.
- You can feather both gas and brake with L2 and R2, and both buttons have enough movement range that they provide a decent application range.
- I find this layout will optimize movement and function mid-race so that when you need to do one thing, it does not deter or take away from another (e.g. you can hand brake, shift, steer, brake, or gas, all at the same time without having to let off of another button or contort your hand).


The biggest adjustments to the DFGT that I personally forsee for myself is probably the difference in steering and braking (the gas pedal is probably the easiest thing to adjust to in any car ). With a wheel, you have to make a much larger movement to change the direction of steering than you do with a controller, since you can travel lock to lock much quicker, as described above. Having said that, learning to move my arms quickly, but accurately, is going to be the biggest challenge for me. I don't think the Brake pedal will be as hard to get used to, especially if you mod it with resistance (aka the bungie cord that TRC Hunk posted a youtube video of in another thread).

Let me know how you fair with the wheel Johnny.

This seems to be good advice, but I am just no good with the sticks so I've had to use the directional buttons to steer. I've also been using the X button for gas which probably wasn't the best idea. Seeing as how I'm on the cusp of making the first cut (ranked in top 150 in region) with that less than ideal setup, I'm very hopeful that the DFGT wheel will at least get me safely into round 2. I bought it a little while ago but have some family events to attend. I'll hook it up and see if I can get used to it tonight.

 

[OutlawQuadrnt]

I was wondering if any of you have an educated guess on how much time switching from controller to wheel can shave off? As of a couple hours ago I'm ranked #148 in my region using a controler with directional buttons. I can't use the sticks very well for some reason. I could probably shave a second or so off of my combined time, but not much more than that using the controler. I think I'm going to go ahead and get a Driving Force GT wheel tomorrow. My question is how much will this help? Would it easily bump me into the top 100 once I get used to it, or is that hoping for too much? Thanks!

I actually can give you a good example.

I did 10 laps in Tsukuba with a pad and then 10 laps with a wheel. The best with a pad was a 1:06.7 and a 1:06.1 with a wheel.

Note that I was always an analog user until GT5 Prologue. I would say I had about 20-30 hours of practice before GT5 came out.

 

[JohnnyWoo]

I actually can give you a good example.

I did 10 laps in Tsukuba with a pad and then 10 laps with a wheel. The best with a pad was a 1:06.7 and a 1:06.1 with a wheel.

Note that I was always an analog user until GT5 Prologue. I would say I had about 20-30 hours of practice before GT5 came out.

Thanks. I used my DFGT for the first time last night. So far I'm 5 seconds slower on Cape Ring, but definitely don't have the hang of it yet.

 

[OutlawQuadrnt]

Thanks. I used my DFGT for the first time last night. So far I'm 5 seconds slower on Cape Ring, but definitely don't have the hang of it yet.

It will take time but you will get the hang of it eventually. 👍

Personally, I don't have much trouble with the wheel now but with the brake and throttle pedals, I'm still like a caveman with the inputs if I get sloppy. That, and I swear the calibration on them is off.

 

[JohnnyWoo]

It will take time but you will get the hang of it eventually. 👍

Personally, I don't have much trouble with the wheel now but with the brake and throttle pedals, I'm still like a caveman with the inputs if I get sloppy. That, and I swear the calibration on them is off.

So far I would say I'm the opposite. The pedals have allowed me to drive with traction control completely off for the first time, but the wheel itself seems to be holding me back at this point. While I can dial in more precise adjustments, all of my steering inputs are slower with the wheel. Also, once I've started to lose a little bit of control there seems to be no chance of correction. The wheels just fights back and I spin out every time. With the controller I would usually be able to get the car straight again fairly easily. That being said, it's definitely a much more real and more fun experience driving with the DFGT. I have driven some HPDE events in my real car and GT5 feels MUCH more similar to that experience with a wheel. Hopefully I'll get faster with it.

 

[Choate51]

You will get the hang of it. It sounds like you about have it now. The controller lets you get away with some mistakes because you can go lock to lock in like .0000231231 seconds. With the wheel it takes slightly longer. That is what takes getting used to.

 

[OutlawQuadrnt]

So far I would say I'm the opposite. The pedals have allowed me to drive with traction control completely off for the first time, but the wheel itself seems to be holding me back at this point. While I can dial in more precise adjustments, all of my steering inputs are slower with the wheel. Also, once I've started to lose a little bit of control there seems to be no chance of correction. The wheels just fights back and I spin out every time. With the controller I would usually be able to get the car straight again fairly easily. That being said, it's definitely a much more real and more fun experience driving with the DFGT. I have driven some HPDE events in my real car and GT5 feels MUCH more similar to that experience with a wheel. Hopefully I'll get faster with it.

I was already disabling traction control when I was using the analog sticks in the past so I thought the switch to pedals would be easy for me. Turns out that applying maximum acceleration out of corners for me is still a hit-and-miss proposition. I tend to short-shift to mitigate this but this makes me a tad slower at exit which is likely killing my times for the time trials. That, and if I can figure out why my pedals are not linear (ex. 75% down on pedal = 95% acceleration), I may get better in this department.

I also have the problem with re-gaining steering control, especially if I go a bit too wide and put the tiniest sliver of tire on the grass. The sounds of the tires have been a good guide for me to determine if I need to ease up on the throttle. I will say the biggest adjustment for me switching to a wheel is anticipating when to start turning because I tend to turn too early and too much and end up going into the curbing or if there is a wall there, literally hitting the apex.

That, and my wheel is mounted on a coffee table making sudden wheel corrections even more difficult. Oh, and my seat is a fold-up chair. Yep, it can be a literal pain in the rear after a long session.

 

[wnx_echo0010]

The whole thing is about training your muscle memory brain. It becomes a very dynamic process because the track changes as you go faster. When you hit turn A and B really well, suddenly you wipe out on turn C because you don't hit it that fast normally.

In theory the wheel should give you a much wider range of motion on the basic controls thereby making it easier to 'remember' where your muscles should be at any given moment. If you have been using the analogue sticks and got very good with it then it will take you a lot longer to relearn back to that level than it would for someone with little experience to relearn back to their basic level. Your logical brain knows what to do but your muscle brain must be retrained.

It is not like completely starting over. For one, your knowledge of the tracks and what to look for at each corner remains. You know where you want to put the car and how fast you should be going in each given moment. Also the wheel should be quicker to pick up than the controller was originally.

Start slow. Go through the first few events in a slow car. Get silver and golds on the first few licensing stages. Make this an opportunity to relearn the fundamentals.

but don't listen to me. I only have three gold trophies and don't even own a wheel yet. I just know a little bit about learning.

On a side note, this is one kick ass game that you could even have this kind of conversation about it. For those of you who can take it to that level it is most definitely a sport. It is fun to be a small part just on the sidelines.

 

[The_Schwarz]

Thanks for the input everyone. Has anyone actually started GT Academy with the controller and switched to a wheel? If so, how did it affect your time? I think I'm going to go buy one in the next couple of hours, so I'll report back tonight.

I have been playing with the controller for years. Switched to a DFGT yesterday. My GT Academy times have gone UP as much as 7 seconds on the Cape Ring. I went from being damn good at this game to total suck. I'm getting better but its a SLOW learning curve for me. Hope to see some improvement and be back to my old self by round 2.

 

[BigYoSpeck]

The Euro GTA was where I really learned to use a wheel. Once I was starting to plateau with the wheel I gave the pad a try and was 2 seconds slower.

 

[velocity-wolf]

Currently ranked 86th in U.S. with my DS3. There are four people ahead of me in the U.S. that use controllers (one is even using the directional pad to steer... LOL - he is a badass).

DFGT shipped yesterday. Will be here on Thursday at the latest. I have a three day weekend. Operation: DFGT Training commences in 72 hours.

 

[wnx_echo0010]

Currently ranked 86th in U.S. with my DS3. There are four people ahead of me in the U.S. that use controllers (one is even using the directional pad to steer... LOL - he is a badass).

DFGT shipped yesterday. Will be here on Thursday at the latest. I have a three day weekend. Operation: DFGT Training commences in 72 hours.

Oh wow. Good luck man. Keep us posted on what works for you during your conversion process. I should switch to DFGT soon as well tho I am no where near your ranking.

 

[Apex-Crod]

Well I can say the DFGT is makes a huge difference. I have been using a generic wheel set for the past month. I Finally got fed up with not being able to be to improve as quickly so I went and got the DFGT a few days ago. As I have gotten use to the feed back my lap times are consistent and faster. So yes the wheel makes a difference and a GOOD wheel makes a HUGE difference.