How to get a good start...

[SunsetSailor]

Hey guys...And Gals! I haven't found a thread consisting of this topic and i've discovered something interesting and wish to share it with others.

Whether it be in A-spec, online, or even in the real world... What every racer wants in any race is, when the lights go green, to pull away with the best start possible.

As you know, in GT5 you are given a countdown of 3, 2, 1, "START" and during this process, your car is essentially frozen in time until "START" appears at the elapse of the final second. Then, your car is magically released from this frozen time-capsule.

Anyone who has tried to start properly in GT5 as you would in real life knows that, contrary to real life, it only serves to cost you a bad start. So generally what people tend to do is plant the accelerator to the floor during the countdown and have it red-lining before "START" appears. Then they either keep it hammered while TCS bogs the car down, or lift the throttle until they find traction. Personally, i don't use TCS on anything anymore!

I have my own way of doing this and i've tested it online countless times and it works consistently every time...Well as consistently as one can be consistent!? When i nail a perfect start, and if i'm not on the front row, i have to lift to avoid contact! That's how much of a difference this makes.

When you pump the throttle fully once and let go the instant it red-lines, it takes 0.5 secs form idle revs to red-lining. What i do is count 3, 2.5, 2, 1.5, 1, ...And 'precisely' on 0.5, i pump the throttle. When you time it so that it starts to red-line at the same split-second "START" appears, you get a much better launch. However, that's only to get your car rolling from being stationary. You then need to deal with wheel-spin as per usual.

Of course i don't say or think the .5 numbers, i just feel them like beats and nod every second. I guess being a drummer helps in that regard. I'm interested to know if anyone else has noticed this. I'm keen to find out whether this is actually true or if it's just my mind playing tricks with me!? If anyone could give this a try, i'd appreciate any feedback...

What have you tried in your quest for the holy grail that is the perfect start?

Cheers.

 

[AudiLord]

I have not tried it in particular in GT5, but I know in real life that you want to start with your engine revving on the RPM in which the torque of the engine is maximal. This gives you maximal force delivered to the tires, and thus to the road. I guess your wheels will spin but it gives you maximal force to get of your place. Most times this RPM is lower than the red line..

You can try doing it and see if you get away quicker. In the settings of your car you can see the torque versus RPM and there you can see at which RPM the torque is maximal. And then with your start try holding the revs on that RPM untill racestart, and then try dealing with the slip.

 

[Giulietta73]

Great read OP.👍 Shame there aren't many standing starts in GT5 now.

 

[SunsetSailor]

Great read OP.👍 Shame there aren't many standing starts in GT5 now.

Thanks, but i'm not sure what you mean...

 

[SunsetSailor]

I have not tried it in particular in GT5, but I know in real life that you want to start with your engine revving on the RPM in which the torque of the engine is maximal. This gives you maximal force delivered to the tires, and thus to the road. I guess your wheels will spin but it gives you maximal force to get of your place. Most times this RPM is lower than the red line..

You can try doing it and see if you get away quicker. In the settings of your car you can see the torque versus RPM and there you can see at which RPM the torque is maximal. And then with your start try holding the revs on that RPM untill racestart, and then try dealing with the slip.

Okay, i'll try that tomorrow and get back to you. Sleep time for me!

 

[Giulietta73]

Thanks, but i'm not sure what you mean...

I'm guessing that you are talking about standing starts by the way you talk about red-lining the throttle.

The starts for all the seasonals and most (if not all) of A-Spec are rolling starts - though they used to be standing starts before Spec-2 update. So, yeah, it's a shame we don't have standing starts any more. (The Grande Tour still have standing starts.)

 

[Johnnypenso]

I tune the gearbox so I can do a full throttle launch with out making the tires go red. Bit of guesswork but if you're spending a few minutes tuning a car anyway, you just adjust and then test launch each time you bring the car in to adjust suspension settings. I find this is the best way to launch and works every time, no timing involved.

 

[SunsetSailor]

I'm guessing that you are talking about standing starts by the way you talk about red-lining the throttle.

The starts for all the seasonals and most (if not all) of A-Spec are rolling starts. (The Grande Tour still have standing starts.)

Yes. Clearly, i was not referring to rolling starts.

I've been racing online a lot recently and i've noticed that despite everyone else madly revving their cars till the cows come home, i still have better starts than them.

When i'm on the front row, they can see that for themselves!?

 

[AudiLord]

Okay, i'll try that tomorrow and get back to you. Sleep time for me!

Nice, i'm curious whether it will work in GT5 Let me now your findings xD
Wantde to try it out for a while but I'm very busy lately :l

And it's indeed a shame that most of the standing starts have been removed from the game

 

[iainoflo85]

Was thinking of starting a thread asking this same question. What is the best method of getting off the line? I shall try some of these already mentioned and see which I prefer.

 

[hasslemoff]

I keep the revs at around 4000 to 5000 rpm then hard on throttle when its time to go, that works well for me.
On tuned cars I do the same as johnny so I can use full throttle at the start.

 

[DGXR]

I usually just let the TCS help me get the best launch, but that's the lazy way and is clearly not the *best* launch. I just realized that if TCS were turned off, and the accelerator were applied progressively once START appears, that might be the best way to maximize traction and engine power for acceleration. Yes or no? Discuss!

 

[Aquarelle]

I suppose my way of doing things is similar, I'm not sure how much difference reving during the countdown makes (If I understood you correctly)

But I tend to just play with the accelerator, rev to about 6 thousand or so then at two I'll leave it alone, then a little after "1" I'll floor it, usually I'll be at the rev limiter just as the "gates" open.

It was a technique I developed when struggling with the braking license tests way back when and I've sort of stuck with it since, it seems to give less wheel spin as well though that could be a trick of the mind, I haven't thoroughly tested it.

 

[ChevyFan1912]

If you have a G27, rev high and slip the clutch. Don't try this in real life

 

[Lewis_Hamilton_]

When I'm in some rooms, I manage a noticably better start than others on the grid, and for the most part that's because not using TCS is an advantage.

Some cars in spec races are also faster off the line launching in 2nd.

I've also noticed that unless you have uber short gears compared to your power and grip, it's always better to just mash the throttle rather than control it, with the exception of starting on a banked section such as Daytona Road Course.

In my own cars, I always use the "Tranny Trick". My 1st gear is always set to be long, so that the wheels only chirp or have a small puff of smoke on launch, yet just short enough to keep the revs in the power band. From there I keep all other gears short and close for quicker acceleration and rapid gear changes.

It also helps with handling by doing this, as it allows you to have more control over the powerband when exiting a corner.

 

[SunsetSailor]

Well i just tested the theory of checking the max tq/revs and holding my revs at that certain point. I immediately noticed that this is problematic as the driving display didn't appear until 1 second to go. Mind you i was only using one-make-race in practice. It took several restarts to hold the revs at the right amount with only the sound to go by. Obviously this would not be practical in online racing and it didn't give me a better start anyway. In fact, it gave me a bad start. I didn't get any wheel spin, but the initial launch was quite pathetic really. Ill have to go online and see if i can see the speedo/rev on-screen during the countdown and get back to you.

Nice, i'm curious whether it will work in GT5 Let me now your findings xD
Wanted to try it out for a while but I'm very busy lately :l

And it's indeed a shame that most of the standing starts have been removed from the game

Ahh i see. Geez, a lot happens when ya don't play for 6 months!? I didn't realize there was an update that changed some of the grid starts in A-spec to rolling starts.

Was thinking of starting a thread asking this same question. What is the best method of getting off the line? I shall try some of these already mentioned and see which I prefer.

Awesome. I can't believe no one else had asked about this. It's good to know i'm not only who's been giving this some thought.

If you or anyone is interested in trying out these suggestions with me, you can send me your friend-req and i'll open a room. I'd select a stock car from GT5's garage, so there is absolutely no difference in terms of performance. We could try a variety of different cars and hopefully get an accurate indication as to which approach works best.

 

[SunsetSailor]

I usually just let the TCS help me get the best launch, but that's the lazy way and is clearly not the *best* launch. I just realized that if TCS were turned off, and the accelerator were applied progressively once START appears, that might be the best way to maximize traction and engine power for acceleration. Yes or no? Discuss!

Not quite. Apparently we need to hit full throttle as the the car is released Just to get it rolling from being stationary with as big a launch as possible. Then immediately lift the throttle partially, just enough to eliminate wheel-spin. All TCS does is do this for you. It prevents the power you've tried to apply from reaching the wheels and only allows power that won't cause wheel-spin. Does that make sense?

I can guarantee you that if you put 2 stock cars beside each other, 1 of which has TCS, the one without TCS will get a better start, providing the driver knows what he's he's doing.

I suppose my way of doing things is similar.
...Usually I'll be at the rev limiter just as the "gates" open.

This is exactly what i'm refering to. You're using the same technique!

I've just played around with a few different cars and the length of time between idling to max revs is different for each car. Before each race, i just give it 1 full thrust and that's it. Then i let it idle while everyone else revs till the cows come home!?

If you have a G27, rev high and slip the clutch. Don't try this in real life

Hahaa no chance of that. I don't even have a license, let alone a car.
Excuse my dummy question, but what do you mean by slipping the clutch?

 

[Aquarelle]

This is exactly what i'm refering to. You're using the same technique!

Haha I wasn't sure. I just found I got off the line a significant margin faster if I was just hitting the rev limiter on "Go!", Interesting to see I wasn't just imagining it

 

[Johnnypenso]

Not quite. Apparently we need to hit full throttle as the the car is released Just to get it rolling from being stationary with as big a launch as possible. Then immediately lift the throttle partially, just enough to eliminate wheel-spin. All TCS does is do this for you. It prevents the power you've tried to apply from reaching the wheels and only allows power that won't cause wheel-spin. Does that make sense?

I've tried that technique of lifting the throttle to eliminate wheelspin and it's never as fast as if you tune first for a full throttle launch without the tires going red. On top of that you can't be nearly as consistent because you'll never get exactly the same launch every time.

 

[rosckolove]

According to the drag racers wheel spin is not a bad thing so I just floor it. I always flip the tranny and I always put first all the way to the left and the last gear (and sometimes the one before) all the way to the right. I then space all the gears out but I always run the first couple gears in closer spacing then the last to eliminate shift lag. Shift lag isn't a problem in higher gears so I generally space them out quite a bit farther then the lower gears. After this I take it to the track and adjust my final gear so first gear will spin the tires while the rpm hovers right around peak power. Then with the combination of a tall first gear and extremely tight gear spacing for the first couple shifts I always, always get the jump off the line. I also do some trial and error on what rpm to shift at, looking at the graph never seems to work as well as a few experimental shifts.

It works for me and I constantly get asked for my setup while racing online in random lobbies..

I just read lewis Hamilton's post and I generally do what he is doing, with the exception of spaceing my first 3-4 gears much closer then the last ones.

Of course this all depends on the car and sometimes I run 1st gear as tall as possible and second gear so close to it that I only stay In Second for a split second. I do this to still have an effective launch gear and avoid second bogging out of the hair pins. Depends on the track also.

Rolling starts for sanctioned races I do something completely different, to get an effective launch from 65-75 and on from there. I consider everything below hairpin speed useless at that point and I don't waste any gearing on it.

 

[Johnnypenso]

. I then space all the gears out but I always run the first couple gears in closer spacing then the last to eliminate shift lag. Shift lag isn't a problem in higher gears so I generally space them out quite a bit farther then the lower gears. After this I take it to the track and adjust my final gear so first gear will spin the tires while the rpm hovers right around peak power. Then with the combination of a tall first gear and extremely tight gear spacing for the first couple shifts I always, always get the jump off the line. I also do some trial and error on what rpm to shift at, looking at the graph never seems to work as well as a few experimental shifts.

It works for me and I constantly get asked for my setup while racing online in random lobbies..

I just read lewis Hamilton's post and I generally do what he is doing, with the exception of spaceing my first 3-4 gears much closer then the last ones.

Of course this all depends on the car and sometimes I run 1st gear as tall as possible and second gear so close to it that I only stay In Second for a split second. I do this to still have an effective launch gear and avoid second bogging out of the hair pins. Depends on the track also.

What?! Are you telling me that you can avoid shift lag by spacing the first couple of gears closer together? I didn't know that. That shift lag has bothered the crap out of me since day 1 and I didn't realize there was a way to help deal with it. I'm gonna have to retune a couple of gearboxes to see if i can get this to work. Thanks:tup:👍

 

[rosckolove]

Yea something I came up with when I was trying to steal ideas from the drag racers. That's one of the main benefits of the tranny trick, it gives you better options for tighter gears. I just take it a step further and make the first few much closer then the last. I don't have even spacing whatsoever. Shifting on a turn doesn't disrupt the car as much either.

 

[nawfal]

If the car has lots of torque, I usually launch from 2nd at full throttle. Gives me the best times
If the car is 4WD or has low torque I launch from first.
Before going full throttle I keep revs around 3-4 k depending on car's torque curve and then let go of brake and full throttle

 

[quavers]

My way is to put little to no power and let the RPM build up and increase on power as I go along the start/finish straight.

 

[Street Racer]

According to the drag racers wheel spin is not a bad thing so I just floor it. I always flip the tranny and I always put first all the way to the left and the last gear (and sometimes the one before) all the way to the right. I then space all the gears out but I always run the first couple gears in closer spacing then the last to eliminate shift lag. Shift lag isn't a problem in higher gears so I generally space them out quite a bit farther then the lower gears. After this I take it to the track and adjust my final gear so first gear will spin the tires while the rpm hovers right around peak power. Then with the combination of a tall first gear and extremely tight gear spacing for the first couple shifts I always, always get the jump off the line. I also do some trial and error on what rpm to shift at, looking at the graph never seems to work as well as a few experimental shifts.

It works for me and I constantly get asked for my setup while racing online in random lobbies..

I just read lewis Hamilton's post and I generally do what he is doing, with the exception of spaceing my first 3-4 gears much closer then the last ones.

Of course this all depends on the car and sometimes I run 1st gear as tall as possible and second gear so close to it that I only stay In Second for a split second. I do this to still have an effective launch gear and avoid second bogging out of the hair pins. Depends on the track also.

Rolling starts for sanctioned races I do something completely different, to get an effective launch from 65-75 and on from there. I consider everything below hairpin speed useless at that point and I don't waste any gearing on it.

👍 x100 to you rosckolove
and what your doing when you mash the throttle at 0.5 or around there, is that you are time launching. when it shows start, you want the needle to be at the intersection of the torque and horsepower on the powerband. it's hard to get it exact, but it is definitely faster if you use it correct.

Yea something I came up with when I was trying to steal ideas from the drag racers. That's one of the main benefits of the tranny trick, it gives you better options for tighter gears. I just take it a step further and make the first few much closer then the last. I don't have even spacing whatsoever. Shifting on a turn doesn't disrupt the car as much either.

yo guys, I recommend you checking out the transmission tuning guide in the drag forum. rosckolove did and his gearbox is pretty good.

What?! Are you telling me that you can avoid shift lag by spacing the first couple of gears closer together? I didn't know that. That shift lag has bothered the crap out of me since day 1 and I didn't realize there was a way to help deal with it. I'm gonna have to retune a couple of gearboxes to see if i can get this to work. Thanks:tup:👍

right here

 

[SunsetSailor]

I've tried that technique of lifting the throttle to eliminate wheelspin and it's never as fast as if you tune first for a full throttle launch without the tires going red. On top of that you can't be nearly as consistent because you'll never get exactly the same launch every time.

Maybe so, but i don't know how to tune. I've downloaded a pdf file to learn about everything to do with tuning and there's 80 pages. My mind was boggled-up after reading 2 pages!?

According to the drag racers wheel spin is not a bad thing so I just floor it.

Well that's absolute rubbish! My starts are always better when i lift to find traction than floor it and suffer wheelspin. When accelerating after the initial launch, wheelspin costs you time. My starts are always better when i avoid wheelspin. Anyone will tell you that!? Do you use TCS? If so, i suggest you try one of the LMP cars like a Peugot 908 with TCS turned off. Try starting by flooring it...And then try starting and lifting the throttle to eliminate wheel-spin; And see which one works better. I guarantee you, the latter will give you the better start. I drive my Peugot 908 without TCS all the time.

Haha I wasn't sure. I just found I got off the line a significant margin faster if I was just hitting the rev limiter on "Go!", Interesting to see I wasn't just imagining it

Exactly what i was thinking. Great minds aye!?

 

[bs13]

I was in a Nascar room tonight and they switched to rolling starts. I run a 3 speed so I'm always slow off the line. I was also a drummer in high school so I understood what the OP was talking about. The countdown started and I started counting "3 and 2 and 1 bang" punched the throttle and boom I went from the 2nd row to the lead in 1/2 a second. I was laughing out loud because it worked. During the 2nd race I missed the timing and it didn't work. Cool idea mate! Thanks for sharing 👍.

 

[Johnnypenso]

Maybe so, but i don't know how to tune. I've downloaded a pdf file to learn about everything to do with tuning and there's 80 pages. My mind was boggled-up after reading 2 pages!?

Well that's absolute rubbish! My starts are always better when i lift to find traction than floor it and suffer wheelspin. When accelerating after the initial launch, wheelspin costs you time. My starts are always better when i avoid wheelspin. Anyone will tell you that!? Do you use TCS? If so, i suggest you try one of the LMP cars like a Peugot 908 with TCS turned off. Try starting by flooring it...And then try starting and lifting the throttle to eliminate wheel-spin; And see which one works better. I guarantee you, the latter will give you the better start. I drive my Peugot 908 without TCS all the time.

Exactly what i was thinking. Great minds aye!?

All you do to tune the transmission is do the tranny trick which is well documented and then adjust first gear left or right so that when you launch, the wheels turn white, not red. If they are red, you go left. If you bog down, go right. Some cars you might use second or third gear for launch. Some FWD's benefit from short shifting up to second or third. Don't know what kind of cars you race with or tires there are so many possibilities.

When someone says, "wheelspin is ok" they are probably talking about what I'm talking about, not letting the tires go red, but some wheelspin to warm up the tires and give them more grip. They're not talking about taking an LMP and launching it in first and the tires go red and lose all grip. If you hit it right, you can get the car to spin it's wheels right on the exact spot you want the rpm's to be for peak torque/power. I only ever drag raced a couple of times early on in the game and I recall using my Buick and launching in 3rd gear and destroying everyone else.

 

[SunsetSailor]

All you do to tune the transmission is do the tranny trick which is well documented and then adjust first gear left or right so that when you launch, the wheels turn white, not red. If they are red, you go left. If you bog down, go right. Some cars you might use second or third gear for launch. Some FWD's benefit from short shifting up to second or third. Don't know what kind of cars you race with or tires there are so many possibilities.

When someone says, "wheelspin is ok" they are probably talking about what I'm talking about, not letting the tires go red, but some wheelspin to warm up the tires and give them more grip. They're not talking about taking an LMP and launching it in first and the tires go red and lose all grip. If you hit it right, you can get the car to spin it's wheels right on the exact spot you want the rpm's to be for peak torque/power. I only ever drag raced a couple of times early on in the game and I recall using my Buick and launching in 3rd gear and destroying everyone else.

Okay then, thanks for clearing that up. So they're referring to the wheelspin of the initial launch...But if that's the case, then why use that as an excuse to continue the rest of the start with bad technique, which is then disguised/covered up by the use of TCS. I'm assuming you use TCS because you said the car bogs down.

I lengthen 1st gear and shorten the top gear, both as much as possible. then space out the other gears evenly. I only read about this idea recently and so far i've found it has improved my lap times...Except at the start because lengthening 1st gear means less acceleration off the line. It may not launch quite as fast, but it makes up for it once i find traction because there is less wheelspin, which means i can floor it sooner.

Personally, i think using an unusual gear like 3rd just to avoid wheelspin is cheating, in terms of driver-skill.

I was in a Nascar room tonight and they switched to rolling starts. I run a 3 speed so I'm always slow off the line. I was also a drummer in high school so I understood what the OP was talking about. The countdown started and I started counting "3 and 2 and 1 bang" punched the throttle and boom I went from the 2nd row to the lead in 1/2 a second. I was laughing out loud because it worked. During the 2nd race I missed the timing and it didn't work. Cool idea mate! Thanks for sharing 👍.

You're welcome, mate! And yeah, if you don't time it right, it backfires. But when you nail it, it rocks! (excuse the punn)

 

[Johnnypenso]

Okay then, thanks for clearing that up. So they're referring to the wheelspin of the initial launch...But if that's the case, then why use that as an excuse to continue the rest of the start with bad technique, which is then disguised/covered up by the use of TCS. I'm assuming you use TCS because you said the car bogs down.

I lengthen 1st gear and shorten the top gear, both as much as possible. then space out the other gears evenly. I only read about this idea recently and so far i've found it has improved my lap times...Except at the start because lengthening 1st gear means less acceleration off the line. It may not launch faster, but it it makes up for it once i find traction. And because there is less wheelspin, it means i can floor it sooner.

Personally, i think using an unnusual gear like 3rd just to avoid wheelspin is cheating, in terms of driver-skill.

You're welcome, mate! And yeah, if you don't time it right, it backfires. But when you nail it, it rocks! (excuse the punn)

No I don't use TC, never have. Any car will bog down if you don't have enough power for the tires and gear ratio you are using, especially those with really peaky power curves. I think you're still misunderstanding to be honest. I believe the absolute best start for FR/MR/RR cars is to get the gearing right so that the rear tires heat up but don't go red. No TCS, no aids of any kind. It's a fine line, but once you get it right, you can see the difference in any online race just by watching your mini-map as you will usually pull several car lengths on most guys before the first corner.

Back when I used to do a lot of Open Lobby racing, I won 95% of the races by the time I exited the first corner. Usually it meant a big enough lead, especially on courses like Deep Forest that don't allow much draft from the S/F line to the first corner, that I could stay clear of all the carnage too.

When it comes to second or third gear launches, well all I can say is I'm there to win and use every tool legal for that particular race. If it means launching in second or third I'll do that. I remember in the Mini-Madness races one guy just shot through the pack with the greatest start I'd ever seen. Every car was identical, yet somehow he passed a half a dozen cars before the first corner. He did it by short shifting. He was up into third gear in a blink of an eye and the car just hooked up and took off while everyone else was spinning their wheels in a cloud of smoke. Of course the next race, we both got a great start...lol..