How to improve Wheel experience ?

[gigiburk]

Hi Guys,

this is my first year sim racing and i love it !!


I have a DFP wheel and i am not very happy with the feeling.

1) i think whe wheel size it is too small
2) the brake padal it is too soft even after some modifications find on the web

but the most annoyng thing it is

3) If i release the pressure of my hands on the wheel exiting a tight curbe it does not return fast enough and i have to guide to the middle point , and it make a big noise and i lack of precision

I cannot anticipate my hand position or using ony one hand and spinning fast the wheel because the wheel resistance on return so i often cross my arms when i am at the curbe apex and i dont like it


My main question it is how point 3 can be improved

Can i solve it buyng a G25/27 ?
How the g25/27 feels in comparison with the DFP in this case ?

Can i solve it playing with some parameters on the game ?

Can I solve it buying a DF GT ?

How it si the pedal feeling in the g25/27 or the DF GT ?

thanks for any input

Gigi

 

[Biggles]

The simple answer is: like the DFP, a G25/G27 doesn't respond like a real car. You DO have to "guide" the wheel back to a greater degree than you do in a real car. However, a G25/G27 is a bigger diameter wheel, less stiff & "notchy" than a DFP, & the pedals are much better, so definitely a worthwhile investment if you're going to do a lot of sim-racing.

You should look here for more detailed opinions:

https://www.gtplanet.net/forum/forumdisplay.php?f=163

 

[phil_2001]

The G25 is the same size as the Driving Force GT, G27 is smaller(I think). For me the sensation is real enough, it's like driving a real life car that has no hydraulic steering aid. There is still a bit of delay kinda slow steering at times, but overall it's great. I'd get the new Driving Force GT, for the price it's better than G25 and it's bigger than G27.

 

[daan]

I'd get the new Driving Force GT, for the price it's better than G25 and it's bigger than G27.

But one of his complaints is with the pedals of the DFP, and the DFGT's pedals are the same. The G25/27's pedals are much much better than either the DFP or the DFGT.

 

[panjandrum]

On the DFP (which is, for the money, a pretty good wheel), you will have to get used to "pulling" the wheel back to center. The motor in it does not respond quickly enough to center.

The G25 is faster. I can't exactly quantify it, but it is much more realistic.

Of course, how much a real car does this varies depending on the car, the alignment, the tires, etc. Some cars have much faster return to center than others. Once you get used to it, it isn't really that big a deal.

I use bungies attached various ways and in varying strengths on all my pedals, DFP and G25 too. I've been driving real cars far too long to be able to adjust to fully to controller pedals, the best of which are still pretty lame (unless you are willing to spend truly absurd amounts of money). So try the bungie trick, it works fairly well, the hard part is running the bungies in such a way that they don't get in the way of your feet on the pedals. You have to be creative!

Hope that helps.

 

[CarBastard]

The G25 is the same size as the Driving Force GT, G27 is smaller(I think). For me the sensation is real enough, it's like driving a real life car that has no hydraulic steering aid. There is still a bit of delay kinda slow steering at times, but overall it's great. I'd get the new Driving Force GT, for the price it's better than G25 and it's bigger than G27.

But one of his complaints is with the pedals of the DFP, and the DFGT's pedals are the same. The G25/27's pedals are much much better than either the DFP or the DFGT.

Daan is right, also the DFGT isn't bigger than the G25/27, all three are 11-inch if I'm not wrong.

I got a G27 and it feels great, so maybe getting one would improve your experience. However $300...make sure you won't regret it .

 

[IsmokeGT]

3) If i release the pressure of my hands on the wheel exiting a tight curbe it does not return fast enough and i have to guide to the middle point , and it make a big noise and i lack of precision

I cannot anticipate my hand position or using only one hand and spinning fast the wheel because the wheel resistance on return so i often cross my arms when i am at the curbe apex and i dont like it.

I think the part I underlined is the problem. If you watch F1 drivers, their hands don't move. Thus, your hands shouldnt move, except in a crash, or going to crash, situation. Using an analog clock as an example, I keep my hands at 3 and 9, always. Never let the wheel be free, never! You should be in control of every aspect of the car at all times.

The most important thing in racing, sim or not, is rhythm. When you start questioning where your hands should be, you kill your rhythm. Turn into a machine, once you find your braking/turning/accelerating points, quit thinking. Do the exact same thing every lap until you feel completely comfortable, and then go from there...

I have seen guys do blistering laps with a DFP. Any difference between your wheel, and the others mentioned is minor stuff. Humans made it to the moon, there is no reason why we can't compensate for a squishy brake pedal. 👍

@ the below post- You never have to take your hands off the wheel in GT5P (even Eiger or end of Fuji), unless drifting or saving a near crash.

 

[panjandrum]

I think the part I underlined is the problem. If you watch F1 drivers, their hands don't move. Thus, your hands shouldnt move, except in a crash, or going to crash, situation. Using an analog clock as an example, I keep my hands at 3 and 9, always. Never let the wheel be free, never!

This is true only to an extent. It is true that whenever possible your hands should stay at 3 and 9. Crossing your arms as far as possible while steering is sufficient for most tracks. But, we are talking mostly about road cars here, not F1 cars, and that will require moving your hands on tight tracks, or to counter-steer. There are a number of good books (on real racing) which cover the proper methods. You can probably find a good Autocross book at your local library - start there.

Again, if you just learn to pull the DFP back to center (or beyond), rather than expecting to center quickly enough, you will get used to it pretty quickly and probably be happier with the wheel.

 

[cletus 669]

On the DFP (which is, for the money, a pretty good wheel)

I use bungies attached various ways and in varying strengths on all my pedals, DFP and G25 too. I've been driving real cars far too long to be able to adjust to fully to controller pedals, the best of which are still pretty lame (unless you are willing to spend truly absurd amounts of money). So try the bungie trick, it works fairly well, the hard part is running the bungies in such a way that they don't get in the way of your feet on the pedals. You have to be creative!

Hope that helps.

That is a great "frickin'" idea mate! Do you happen to have pictures? If not that is ok. How did you secure the pedals down so you could get tension on the bungies?

 

[gigiburk]

1) I will definitely go to local bookstore and find a good book on racing driving technique , if somebody has titles suggestion are welcome

2) i like too the idea of the elastics for the pedals , it will be nice to post some picture of your boungee pedal mod..

3) I normally keep always my hands on the wheel position 3 - 9 but i hate when i get to the contorsionist position in the tight curve..
I was thinking to reduce the rotation of the wheel to 200 as gt3 but it defeat the reality of the game

4) I will save my pennys for a g25/g27 but i was considering the fanatech 911s that it is even bigger end has 3 motors for ffb and pedals hi tech but i am concern of compatibily

more to came

thanks again i really appreciate

 

[nissans13_240sx]

Hello, newcomer to the forums, but not the GT series. I have just bought a g27 and it is truly amazing. I don't know if it would be better than a dfgt or pro since it is my first wheel, but I would recommend it to any fan of racing games as big as myself. I was worried about the pedals since I had heard people complain even about the G25/G27 pedals, but they are realistic to a point, much better than any arcade cockpit even the ferrari challenge booth if you ever have played that in an arcade

 

[jagenigma]

I have just recieved the DFGT for a present for my birthday yesterday and i have to say that it is way different than driving with a controller. And I love it!!! If anything, the DFGT should be a good step up from the DFP. If you are on a budget that is, if not get yourself the G27 because it is supposed to be as lifelike as a console wheel can get.
Man, I have wanted a wheel since i got into GT in 1999. Now 11 years later i finally have one WooHoo!!!
Anyways, sorry if i seem to be hijacking your thread, But I am excited!!!

 

[panjandrum]

That is a great "frickin'" idea mate! Do you happen to have pictures? If not that is ok. How did you secure the pedals down so you could get tension on the bungies?

Sorry, I haven't been here in a bit. Here are a few pics from my older DFP pedals. This positioning of the bungies works great for me, but could be a problem if you don't place the pedals on fairly deep carpet. Since I'm hooking the bungies from the pedals to the base it is pretty solid. At first I worried that this would warp the plastic in the pedals, but they've been this way for countless years now with zero problems. I also got that stick-on-rubber from an automotive shop (it is made for running boards on big trucks etc.) Personally I like this, but some people with different size feet have complained that the bungies get in their way (never do for me though). It took me weeks of trial and error before I got the resistance and positioning where I wanted it.

Setup is similar on my G25, but it was a major pain with three pedals getting the bungies run so they weren't interfering with my feet. I ended up making a "platform" out of wood, and the bungies run UNDER that platform. I'll try to remember to take a picture and post it here sometime soon.

 

[Live_Fr0m_NY]

I have wanted a wheel since i got into GT in 1999. Now 11 years later i finally have one WooHoo!!!

haha, me and my cousins used to try and race with the wheel back on PS1 days, there was no force feedback so it made the game much harder!

 

[klondike]

1) I will definitely go to local bookstore and find a good book on racing driving technique , if somebody has titles suggestion are welcome

2) i like too the idea of the elastics for the pedals , it will be nice to post some picture of your boungee pedal mod..

3) I normally keep always my hands on the wheel position 3 - 9 but i hate when i get to the contorsionist position in the tight curve..
I was thinking to reduce the rotation of the wheel to 200 as gt3 but it defeat the reality of the game

4) I will save my pennys for a g25/g27 but i was considering the fanatech 911s that it is even bigger end has 3 motors for ffb and pedals hi tech but i am concern of compatibily

more to came

thanks again i really appreciate

Going faster is a real good book. I think many see it as the bible of racing books.

http://www.amazon.com/dp/0837602262/?tag=gtplanet-20

 

[gigiburk]

I am very happy now after the following inprovements

1) today I upgrade my DFP to a DFGT and what a difference.. Smoother , bigger , quieter and the return now it is almost like a real car.
I did not try yet to position my hands 7 and 1 to anticipate a tight curve but i feel i can do it.. very recomended not expensive dfp upgrade if you want no more squeeks and a totally better wheel experience.


2) I upgrade my pedals with bungie cord as show in the attachments
the gas feeling it is fantastic , the brake still not quite realistic with a springy quick return but much more modulability , finally i can brake with the ball of my foot instead of using the big toe, thanks a lot panjandrum
for your fantastic tips and pictures

3) I got a book called Speed Secret by Ross Bentley that it is very interesting,a lot of driving technique that i am trying to put in practics till now without success but i will insist to correct my amatorial style to became a real sim racer

I hope to be ready for the big GT5 experience with a g27 and compete with you guys and be listed in the top 100 one day

thanks a lot

gigi

 

[Lernatix]

gigi, try placing a small pair of rolled up socks behind your brake pedal.
I find this feels more like pushing real brakes, it gets harder the more you push.

 

[ANFD]

Some really creative ideas here

Having had every Logitech wheel made up to but not including the DFGT I have found the following .....

1) I race a lot ! I have never had a Logitech wheel last more than 2 years, 2 months. They will literally wear out. I've had 2 wheels whereby the paddle shifters quit functioning normally and missed shifts became common.
2) I had another wheel (DFP) where the power supply connector failed (internally) giving me intermitant function.
3) Although I haven't owned a DFGT, a friend of mine broke the plastic foot base within 2 weeks of using it.

Finally sprung for the G25 (about 3 years ago). It has been flawless. It is built to a much more rugged specification. It uses real stitched leather & stainless steel instead of plastic, rubber and vinyl construction. The steering shaft is supported in ball bearings instead of plain plastic bushings. The G25 also comes with threaded inserts built in allowing you to hard mount the wheel and pedals to a chassis. None of the others do I believe. The Force Feedback is provided by 2 powerful DC motors, unlike any of the others (G27 not included). I actually paid $225 for it and it came "bundled" with a copy of PS2 NFS Carbon which I sold for $20

To me, it was a better investment than replacing the cheaper units every 2 years or so. To many, the clutch pedal is important to them also.