How to use buttkicker without a AV receiver?

[lemansfanatic]

I know it sounds odd, but I do all my gaming at night with expensive wireless headphones so I don't have a need for a surround sound AV receiver right now. My question is, since the buttkicker gamer has its own amp, all you need a AV receiver for is to break up the audio into LEFT/RIGHT/CENTER/and most importantly SUBWOOFER channels, but doesn't amplify the signal (basically a signal splitter). Is there a device like a Toslink-to-speaker channel converter or some way to do this without a huge AV receiver?

 

[HoiHman]

I would love have the answer that question too. I want to buy a buttkicker gamer 2.

My sound system is logitech z5500 which has no subwoofer out because the electronics are based in the subwoofer.

 

[MilleRSVR]

I know it sounds odd, but I do all my gaming at night with expensive wireless headphones so I don't have a need for a surround sound AV receiver right now. My question is, since the buttkicker gamer has its own amp, all you need a AV receiver for is to break up the audio into LEFT/RIGHT/CENTER/and most importantly SUBWOOFER channels, but doesn't amplify the signal (basically a signal splitter). Is there a device like a Toslink-to-speaker channel converter or some way to do this without a huge AV receiver?

If you're a PC gamer, and your MB or sound card has 5.1 analog out, you can use the LFE/Center channel out to the Buttkicker amp. You just have to use a mini stereo RCA adapter and determine which channel is the LFE (subwoofer).

If your a console gamer, things aren't so easy. You would need some sort of 5.1 DAC just to use the LFE channel. It might be easier and cheaper to buy a budget 5.1 receiver on sale or at EBay.

 

[Zoom!Zoom!]

To use the Buttkicker Gamer 2 on console you will need to buy a headphone amp like this one:
http://www.amazon.com/dp/B000219896/?tag=gtplanet-20

(You doesn't really need th device as an amp but only to have two separate audio outputs. In most cases batteries are not needed)
This will allow you to hook up both right and left channels into the Buttkicker without losing stereo sound though your headphones. IIRC You have all the wires needed that comes with the Buttkicker except maybe an extra Y splitter to connect both left and right channels into the Buttkicker. Notice you can't use headphones that connects by USB with the Buttkicker.
You could just connect either left or right channel with only the Buttkicker and wires provided yet if any bass is missing in that channel you won't feel it. For example you will feel nothing when the left channel is connected while your right tires runs over the rumble strip.

 

[lemansfanatic]

Found this, about as cheap as a used 5.1 surround, but doesnt take up any space and I think i could use the subwoofer channel output to send an analog subwoofer signal to the buttkicker gamer 2's rca inputs... what do you think, any chance of this not working?

http://www.amazon.com/Sewell-Digital-Decoder-Surround-Toslink/dp/B005D8YTKQ

 

[gslooney]

See if you can follow this..

Note: Windows Vista and Windows 7 can only output audio to one device at a time unless you have special drivers for your hardware!!

I have both the xbox and PS3 set to multi audio out, they will send audio out via both the Analogue outputs and the Digital connectors. I use the analogue connectors to drive the buttkicker via a switch, and the digital optical output to drive the speakers and headset(via a splitter)

VIDEO:

HDMI outputs and optical fibres connect to a AV Digital Switch. so Video from the output goes to the main monitor.

SOUND:

optical surround goes from the AV switch to the splitter. From the splitter sound is fed to the Logitech speakers and my headset. Works great.

The exception here is my PC!

Remember the note above!
I don't use the optical output, Instead I connect the analogue audio (usable by the buttkicker) directly to the amp, splitting a channel on route for the buttkicker output.

When I want headphones + buttkicker on the PC I connect the headphones via the headphone socket on the amp (stereo only) Most driving games on the pc are only stereo!

note - a windows application can only route audio to one device. so if you send audio to your usb you wont hear it on any of the other outputs or your buttkicker!

The only real workaround for this would be to do as I do, or have a headset that uses optical input and an optical output from the PC. Then introduce a splitter into the loop and split the output's (optical) on route to the headphones to a separate toslink amplifier to feed the buttkicker! To much pain for me!

I'm sure this could be simpler, and I'm open to Ideas from our resident Audio Maestro (MR Latte)

I have my own Cave as it were, so the amps work for me. the only issue is on-line gaming when I want to chat.. then I use the headset..

to get the headset to provide mic input on the consoles for online gaming I use a usb cable (came with the headset)to get sound into the PS3 (comes out via optical), With the XBOX you connect a 3.5m stereo connector from the fantec Wheel/controller to the speaker headset controller unit.

Hope this is of some use.

Feel free to ask Questions.

Note this doesn't support audio in on the PC, unless I use USB mode.. Ohh dear here we go again!! mixer anyone! (if I connect in USB mode I loose the buttkicker.) so I leave it on speaker mode with the headset plugged in this Mutes the speakers and provides the audio via the headset. On the PC you can configure a separate comms device (standalone mic) There's got to be a better way.

Might be a project in here to build a digital switch with dual outputs!

 

[HoiHman]

Thanks gslooney, that looks like something i can work with.

I might just ask a few questions later when i have my buttkicker delivered (somewhere in december)

This is a great solution.

 

[MilleRSVR]

Found this, about as cheap as a used 5.1 surround, but doesnt take up any space and I think i could use the subwoofer channel output to send an analog subwoofer signal to the buttkicker gamer 2's rca inputs... what do you think, any chance of this not working?

http://www.amazon.com/Sewell-Digital-Decoder-Surround-Toslink/dp/B005D8YTKQ

I don't see why that wouldn't work in your situation. Just take the SPDIF out from the source unit, and LFE out from the Sewell to the Buttkicker amp.

 

[gslooney]

You got me thinking..

This is What it now looks like!

I remembered that the triton headset controller allowed dual headphones.
I've connected the second output from the controller to the butckicker input.👍

So any SPDIF input gets output to the buttkicker

I did have to swap out the sound card on my PC to achieve this.

So the Speakers decode the digital output from the PC, XBOX or PS3 and the headset controller does this simultaneously whilst providing an analogue output for the buttkicker on it's second Headphone connector.


When I want headset action on the PC or PS3, I plug the USB cable from the headset controller into the PC or PS3.

For the XBOX I jus hook up the audio cable from the controller (Wheel) and I'm good to go..

 

[MilleRSVR]

You got me thinking..

This is What it now looks like!

I remembered that the triton headset controller allowed dual headphones.
I've connected the second output from the controller to the butckicker input.👍

So any SPDIF input gets output to the buttkicker

I did have to swap out the sound card on my PC to achieve this.

So the Speakers decode the digital output from the PC, XBOX or PS3 and the headset controller does this simultaneously whilst providing an analogue output for the buttkicker on it's second Headphone connector.


When I want headset action on the PC or PS3, I plug the USB cable from the headset controller into the PC or PS3.

For the XBOX I jus hook up the audio cable from the controller (Wheel) and I'm good to go..

Are you sending the Buttkicker a full range signal? I'm not sure how that would work, never tried it myself though. I believe it's rated at 5-300hz, I would think you'd need some sort of crossover to limit the frequency range.

 

[lemansfanatic]

Are you sending the Buttkicker a full range signal? I'm not sure how that would work, never tried it myself though. I believe it's rated at 5-300hz, I would think you'd need some sort of crossover to limit the frequency range.

Therein is the problem, although it is okay to send left right signal to the buttkicker, the issue is it doesn't work very well as there is now way to isolate the low frequencies without adjusting it on the main volume, which would also affect headphone audio levels. This decoder is handy because it works just like an AV receiver to convert full spectrum digital audio into analog 5.1 surround channels, the only difference is there is no level adjustability and it doesn't amplify them, which is okay because I don't need surround with my headphones and the buttkicker has its own amp which you can adjust levels on. I asked buttkicker support if this digital to analog 5.1 decoder would work to isolate the low frequency levels using only the subwoofer out, they assured me it would. I just ordered this from Amazon, I'll let you know how it works out.

 

[lemansfanatic]

Its too bad Buttkicker doesn't offer their amplifier with digital audio inputs as well, would make things a lot easier if they found an amplifier supplier who could integrate a DAC into the amp itself, even if we had to pay a little more for it on the consumer end, i wouldn't mind.

 

[jswilli1]

If you are connecting the BK gamer to the PS3 you and use the multi audio output using the RCA cables. Using an AV amp is by far the best for your experience since you can utilize the Subwoofer/LFE output. Remember that when using the multi audio output on the PS3 it will be 2ch stereo so the low end frequencies (Bass) will go to both the left and right channels. It is a great way to enjoy the tactile experience until you can utilize an AV amp.

 

[Zoom!Zoom!]

You could just buy another Buttkicker like I have , one for each side so you can feel the side you hit the rumble strip on.

Are you sending the Buttkicker a full range signal? I'm not sure how that would work, never tried it myself though. I believe it's rated at 5-300hz, I would think you'd need some sort of crossover to limit the frequency range.

Unless I'm missing something, the Buttkicker Amp itself filter out all but the low frequency. If the amp filter out for example 100hz-160hz then no doubt by default everything over 160Hz is filtered out.

 

[tezster]

If you're going to invest in a Buttkicker, then in my mind it makes sense to at the very least by a cheap, used receiver, even if it's just to use the proper LFE output.

 

[gslooney]

Well It worked but the fidelity from the headset was a bit lacking so I've gone back to pushing full audio out to the buttkicker. I went out to the Garage and dug out an old Sub Woofer active Crossover that I had.. I've hooked it up to a disused power adapter for the 12volts

This has a parametric adjustment and the ability to base boost as well as control the crossover frequencies and the results are fantastic!! Can we say Rumble strips!!

Still at the end of the day it's down to how good the game audio is. So in Forza this is amazing. Boy how I hate seibring you can feel every time you move between concrete blocks! GT5 is O.K. but the sound from the rumble strips is still a little wanting, ike the sound from the cars imho.

 

[Zoom!Zoom!]

Still at the end of the day it's down to how good the game audio is. So in Forza this is amazing. Boy how I hate seibring you can feel every time you move between concrete blocks! GT5 is O.K. but the sound from the rumble strips is still a little wanting, ike the sound from the cars imho.

With two Buttkickers in Gt5 I can really feel it when I come in contact with another car.

 

[gslooney]

I have two buttkickers I 'll give it a go

 

[jswilli1]

I use a BK advance in the bottom of my cockpit and run it off the LFE channel. I have a clark transducer on the left and right side of my cockpit which I run off the PS3 multi channel out (optical) to a second amp. I definetely feel everything from a wall, car, or rumble strip. I have really been enjoying BF3 with audio set to War Tapes and the Dolby Digital DTS 5.1 output from the game:tup:

 

[lemansfanatic]

You could just buy another Buttkicker like I have , one for each side so you can feel the side you hit the rumble strip on.

Unless I'm missing something, the Buttkicker Amp itself filter out all but the low frequency. If the amp filter out for example 100hz-160hz then no doubt by default everything over 160Hz is filtered out.

I'm sure it does filter somewhat, the manual says that it can be connected directly to left right speaker outs, but for BEST results to go through the subwoofer output... just looking for the best results here without an AV reciever, don't have room in my setup right now, plus i don't need one.

 

[HoiHman]

If i open up my z5500 subwoofer and find the 2 wires that go to the subwoofer speaker, can i connect or just solder the Buttkicker to that?

 

[Zoom!Zoom!]

I'm sure it does filter somewhat, the manual says that it can be connected directly to left right speaker outs, but for BEST results to go through the subwoofer output... just looking for the best results here without an AV reciever, don't have room in my setup right now, plus i don't need one.

What do you mean somewhat? The reason for the adjustable filter knob and buttons is to stop even some of the low frequency from overheating the Buttkicker piston. The main reason sub-woofer output for 5.1 system is so the subwoofer receives the bass from all 5 speakers (mono bass) which why is referred to .1 as there is still only 5 channels. 2.1 refers to two channel stereo with mono bass.

 

[jswilli1]

If i open up my z5500 subwoofer and find the 2 wires that go to the subwoofer speaker, can i connect or just solder the Buttkicker to that?

Technically you could but I don't think the logitech amp will drive the BK transducer and you might end up 'toasting' the whole unit. I Would not advise it.

 

[lemansfanatic]

What do you mean somewhat? The reason for the adjustable filter knob and buttons is to stop even some of the low frequency from overheating the Buttkicker piston. The main reason sub-woofer output for 5.1 system is so the subwoofer receives the bass from all 5 speakers (mono bass) which why is referred to .1 as there is still only 5 channels. 2.1 refers to two channel stereo with mono bass.

I know what you're saying makes sence, but could there be a reason that Buttkicker instructed users to plug into an Amp here> such as the buttkickers filter can be used to isolate bass frequencies but is more adequaltely used to simply provide added noise reduction/hum because they used cheap filter components, or the processors was designed to filter anomalies instead of entire wave forms? No telling as i haven't opened it up to inspect the inner workings of the amp. I'm obviously not an audio engineer, i'm just trying to make sure I get the best accoustical performace from the device by following the designers intructions without using an amp, and for 60 bucks, i'll take a chance that this DAC will help.

 

[Zoom!Zoom!]

I know what you're saying makes sence, but could there be a reason that Buttkicker instructed users to plug into an Amp here> such as the buttkickers filter can be used to isolate bass frequencies but is more adequaltely used to simply provide added noise reduction/hum because they used cheap filter components, or the processors was designed to filter anomalies instead of entire wave forms? No telling as i haven't opened it up to inspect the inner workings of the amp. I'm obviously not an audio engineer, i'm just trying to make sure I get the best accoustical performace from the device by following the designers intructions without using an amp, and for 60 bucks, i'll take a chance that this DAC will help.

The first generation of Buttkicker did have cheap parts as the amp had a bad record of burning up after a few months of use. They build a lot better amp with Buttkicker Gamer 2. Now if the Buttkicker gets too hot it will kick off for a short period of time to cool down.

 

[DexFrankenstein]

I have both the xbox and PS3 set to multi audio out, they will send audio out via both the Analogue outputs and the Digital connectors. I use the analogue connectors to drive the buttkicker via a switch, and the digital optical output to drive the speakers and headset(via a splitter)

I recently bought a new Xbox 360 and am trying to integrate it into my home theather system. I currently use a PS3 outputting audio to my surround sound receiver via HDMI, Buttkicker Gamer 2 via RCA from the PS3 VGA connector, and Turtle Beach DPX21 headphones via optical digital.

I've been searching all over the place trying to figure out if the Xbox 360 is capable of outputting audio to multiple connections and am not finding a clear answer. Microsoft support told me that it is not capable of doing so but I feel like the agent I spoke with didn't really know what they were talking about. Where I'm hung up is that the Xbox 360 VGA cable has a tab on it that blocks the HDMI port so I can't plug them both in at the same time. I've found a few resources that suggested using the Xbox audio adapter that runs from the VGA port and branches off into RCA left/right and Optical Digital. Everything that I have read about these devices say that they are faulty and cause the Xbox to reset whenever the video input is changed which sounds like a big hassle. It also seems a bit redundant to use an adapter to duplicate the connections that are already present without it.

So my question is; how are you outputting audio to multiple devices through your Xbox 360? I'd like to be able to use RCA and Toslink switches to go between my PS3 and Xbox like you illustrated in your diagram. Any help you can offer would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks!

 

[gslooney]

I am driving the Audio from both the tos-link and the audio connectors.. it works..

I'm using this..

I removed the plastic casing around the large XBOX side connector to allow access to the HDMI connector when the adapters connected. Video goes via the HDMI.

and the RCA's feed the output to the buttkicker. and the digital fibre to my switch and then the headphones and amp via a splitter.
So far 2 and a half years in. and I've had none of these reset Issues you mentioned. My XBOX has been as reliable as my PS3.. but then it is frrreeezzzing in Scotland

 

[DexFrankenstein]

I removed the plastic casing around the large XBOX side connector to allow access to the HDMI connector when the adapters connected. Video goes via the HDMI.

I just realized that I was calling the component cable a VGA cable in my first post, sorry about that; I deal with too many acronyms at work and start to mix everything up.

I have the newer model Xbox 360 that has a Toslink port on the back of it. Here is what it looks like:

The component cable has a tab on it that blocks the HDMI port:

I'm wondering if I could just remove that tab and plug the HDMI in along with the component cable. Then I could run video through HDMI, use the left/right audio from the component cable to the Buttkicker, and the Toslink to my headset. It seems like an extra step to use the adapter you've got since I'd basically be repeating the optical digital port.

I couldn't find a setting for multiple audio out in the Xbox software like there is on the PS3. Do you think its safe to assume that its always outputting to all of the ports simultaneously? I'm trying to figure out why they would even decide to block the HDMI port while using the component cable in the first place. I did read something about problems as a result of trying to output video to two devices at the same time, but I have no desire to do that.

 

[gslooney]

Hold the press I take it all back! That was how I had it connected on my Elite!!

On my New slim..
It's like this.. you can see with the adapter I don't use the onboard audio.

I used an aftermarket cable I got from Game in the UK. it had no tab
similar to this..

http://www.pcnel.com/product.php?id_product=2457

Both the optical and audio are connected to this and it works simultaneously

Sorry for the dross I wrote earlier!

I've changed this rig around so many times in the last few weeks I'm loosing the plot right now I'm busy with a rig redesign and cabling will be a built in feature.

I want as few cables as possible external.

 

[lemansfanatic]

Ya gotta wonder why they put the tab there in the first place if it can output to two devices, what gives? I have an older Xbox so I had to buy a Component to HDMI converter, then an HDMI switcher with an extra optical audio output. It sounds expensive, but it really wasn't that bad. Monoprice rocks baby, one of the best customer service places I have ever dealt with. I've had a problem with one of the switchers input jacks breaking prematurely, but they didn't ask questions and sent me a new one before I even mailed the old one back, now thats CS you don't find anymore!

Here, this one has one hdmi output, 4 hdmi inputs, and also includes another toslink output as well $40 cant beat that price
http://www.monoprice.com/products/product.asp?c_id=101&cp_id=10110&cs_id=1011002&p_id=5557&seq=1&format=2