How tuning mod works in GT5

[Sail IC]

After playing and tuning in GT5P a while I figured out that to a higher value in spring settings gives softer springs, not harder as I think is logical. Before I figured this out, trying to tune was very frustrating and nothing seemed to make sense.

can someone who knows please fill in below questionmarks.

Spring settings = Higher gives softer springs
Dampers = ?????? (does higher value give softer or harder dampers)
Anti-roll bars = ?????? (does higher value give softer or harder bars)
Ride hight = ??????? (does higher value give higher or lower ride hight)

The Toe +/- is now graphically represented (compared to GP5P) so its now explained in the game what the + or - settings actually does to the wheel.

I think trying to figure out and find an optimal tune is one of the most fun things with a racing game, but if you change a parameter thinking it does one thing but it in the game does the opposite is very frustrating.

Thanks in advance

Cheers

 

[niigma]

Moving dampers to the right makes them stiffer
Moving ride height to the left i believe make the car lower
and moving the anti roll bars to the right makes them stiffer

 

[SkylineR88]

i agree with the ride height and roll bars, havent touched dampers yet because the same issue as op

 

[Sail IC]

OK, then its only the springs that works sort of say, the opposite. To summarize

Springs = Higher value is softer
Dampers = Higher valus is harder
Roll bars = Higher value is stiffer

In GT5P i typpically tuned for grip, ie running very soft springs. Theori says that if you have soft springs you should also have soft dampers. Somehow i felt soft springs (high value) worked better with a high value on the dampers too (ie hard dampers if above is correct), but I most say it was difficult to notice any difference in tha car when changing the damper settings.

 

[Rotary Junkie]

...

You're wrong about the spring rates in GT5 at least. Prologue it may have been true (or certain cars were making you think it was due to the physics being "off" in the same way GT4s were). Higher rate values are most definitely stiffer in GT5.

I know in GT4 and seemingly in Prologue, FWD and AWD cars tended to like "backwards" spring settings to incite oversteer (stiff front, soft rear)... This is not due to the spring rates translating wrong, it's due to the game engine physically sticking tires that would otherwise be lifted to the ground. A stiff rear and soft front would normally lift the inside rear off the ground but since it wasn't allowed under normal circumstances it simply caused understeer.

 

[Oversteerin']

...

You're wrong about the spring rates in GT5 at least. Prologue it may have been true (or certain cars were making you think it was due to the physics being "off" in the same way GT4s were). Higher rate values are most definitely stiffer in GT5.

I know in GT4 and seemingly in Prologue, FWD and AWD cars tended to like "backwards" spring settings to incite oversteer (stiff front, soft rear)... This is not due to the spring rates translating wrong, it's due to the game engine physically sticking tires that would otherwise be lifted to the ground. A stiff rear and soft front would normally lift the inside rear off the ground but since it wasn't allowed under normal circumstances it simply caused understeer.

Well, then I think the same issue you speak of has found its way into GT5 as well, my friend, because I have noticed the same thing the OP is talking about (amongst other issues - see my post below).

 

[Oversteerin']

I own both consoles, and both games, and I'm just going to come out and say what everyone knows deep down, but doesn't want to admit - the tuning in this game is just not up to snuff compared to forza. It just isn't accurate at all, as even extreme settings net only vague changes in car behavior. Granted, forza isn't perfect either, as certain cars are still quirky and have understeer/oversteer that just can't be tuned out, but as a whole, it's a much more accurate system. This is unfortunate, because the physics in GT5 are superior IMO, but when you can't realistically change the behavior of your car with proper suspension setup, this gets overshadowed quickly.

As far as the issue that the OP spoke of, with the suspension settings being potentially backwards, amazingly, they very well may be - I went back and forth with the settings on my e92 M3 in a frustrating attempt to enact some change in my car's behavior, and the softer you go, the stiffer the car feels. The problem is that the change in behavior is so vague (even with extreme settings that you would never run in real life) that it's hard to tell. The other adjustable parts are plagued by similar inaccuracies, i.e. the lsd and center diff settings (with AWD cars).

On my EVO X, setting the torque split at 90% rear does nothing to mitigate the understeer, nor does setting the rear diff at full lock under acceleration, or full open for deceleration. By comparison, the diff settings seem to at least function on my M3, but again, even extreme adjustments only net vague changes in car behavior. To an extent, the tuning accuracy was always a problem in gran turismo, but like many of the issues that plagued the series in the past, has been left unchanged for gt5. Polyphony digital has let the world pass them by because they had their heads burried in the sand for the past 5 years, and kaz was too arrogant to pay attention to the innovations that have taken place in the genre.

 

[Rotary Junkie]

I own both consoles, and both games, and I'm just going to come out and say what everyone knows deep down, but doesn't want to admit - the tuning in this game is just not up to snuff compared to forza. It just isn't accurate at all, as even extreme settings net only vague changes in car behavior. Granted, forza isn't perfect either, as certain cars are still quirky and have understeer/oversteer that just can't be tuned out, but as a whole, it's a much more accurate system. This is unfortunate, because the physics in GT5 are superior IMO, but when you can't realistically change the behavior of your car with proper suspension setup, this gets overshadowed quickly.

Except you can. And everyone who knows what they're doing does exactly that. Many cars will keep their natural tendencies but saying you can't tune out issues is completely false.

As far as the issue that the OP spoke of, with the suspension settings being potentially backwards, amazingly, they very well may be - I went back and forth with the settings on my e92 M3 in a frustrating attempt to enact some change in my car's behavior, and the softer you go, the stiffer the car feels. The problem is that the change in behavior is so vague (even with extreme settings that you would never run in real life) that it's hard to tell. The other adjustable parts are plagued by similar inaccuracies, i.e. the lsd and center diff settings (with AWD cars).

Maximum stiffness on any given car is actually still rather soft compared to what certain vehicle types run in real life. That said, certain things are a bit backwards but make sense when you think about it. Soft rear springs in an RX-7 for example causes oversteer... But not because it's backwards. Rather, the rear suspension's movement becomes a bit excessive and likes to shock-load the outside rear when transitioning onto throttle.

On my EVO X, setting the torque split at 90% rear does nothing to mitigate the understeer, nor does setting the rear diff at full lock under acceleration, or full open for deceleration. By comparison, the diff settings seem to at least function on my M3, but again, even extreme adjustments only net vague changes in car behavior. To an extent, the tuning accuracy was always a problem in gran turismo, but like many of the issues that plagued the series in the past, has been left unchanged for gt5. Polyphony digital has let the world pass them by because they had their heads burried in the sand for the past 5 years, and kaz was too arrogant to pay attention to the innovations that have taken place in the genre.

VCD is flawed, true. It makes *some* difference but said difference is negligible. It doesn't seem to be an open differential so the rear gets 90% torque only when the axle speeds are identical. Whiiiiiiiiiiich means it's useless and makes it effectively 50/50 when slip happens... But then when both ends spin, the rear again gets more torque, etc etc.

As for "extreme changes" making little/no difference... It depends on said extreme changes. I come back to stiff front, soft rear spring rates... The tail will flop around like a fish out of water causing excessive weight transfer to the outside which shock-loads the outside rear... The same is true for soft front/stiff rear settings but it shocks the outside front, causing understeer. The truth lies in the balance of the two.

 

[euros only]

has anyone noticed you cant change weight distribution in this game?

and you cant increase front lip downfroce tssk tssk tskk

 

[greatest335i]

you can do the downfroce if you buy the aero kit

 

[Oversteerin']

Except you can. And everyone who knows what they're doing does exactly that. Many cars will keep their natural tendencies but saying you can't tune out issues is completely false.

Buddy, I have over a decade of real-life track experience and suspension setup expertise, which is far more than what 99% of the people around here can say, so please, don't tell me that I don't know what I'm doing. The truth is, whether you want to acknowledge it or not, that the tuning in this game is just not very accurate, and anyone with real life experience would be able to recognize that immediately.

While some cars react to suspension changes better than others, the reality is that many do not react well at all, and in the case of some, you're pretty much stuck with the way the car behaves no matter what you do. The EVO X in this game is a perfect example - terminal understeer that CANNOT be tuned out. The only option you have is to throw race rubber on and just be content with the car having lots of grip, but that's far from satisfying.

The bottom line is this: GT5 is a fun game, all in all, but an accurate simulation it is not. A good physics engine combined with a great sense of speed makes for a fun ride, but while the physics engine has definite merit, it gets overshadowed by the fact that the game still relies on bad algorithms to calculate the effects of tuning.

Maximum stiffness on any given car is actually still rather soft compared to what certain vehicle types run in real life. That said, certain things are a bit backwards but make sense when you think about it. Soft rear springs in an RX-7 for example causes oversteer... But not because it's backwards. Rather, the rear suspension's movement becomes a bit excessive and likes to shock-load the outside rear when transitioning onto throttle.

I understand what you are saying about soft spring rates in the rear allowing more body roll, which in turn can cause oversteer, but that applies more to rapid, alternating weight transfers than acceleration out of a corner. Either way, that's a terrible way to set a car up because and results in an unbalanced car that understeers like a pig in steady state cornering and oversteers unpredictably during fast switchbacks. Unfortunately, this game doesn't seem to reward proper suspension setup, but who knows, maybe kaz recognizes this as an issue and will put out a patch to correct some of the algorithms. Doubtful, but one can always hope...

VCD is flawed, true. It makes *some* difference but said difference is negligible. It doesn't seem to be an open differential so the rear gets 90% torque only when the axle speeds are identical. Whiiiiiiiiiiich means it's useless and makes it effectively 50/50 when slip happens... But then when both ends spin, the rear again gets more torque, etc etc.

Don't you see the problem with this? If you acknowledge that the diff settings don't net realistic changes in car behavior, then you have to accept that the suspension tuning is flawed as well because it's all part of the same system. It's all based on algorithms, and the generic algorithms being used don't function well when applied statically to 1000 different cars. This is why some cars react better than others, and others react so badly it makes you wonder why you spent the last two hours trying to tune a car that won't do what you are telling it to. It is what it is, my friend.

 

[BobElHat]

The Evo is a bad example to use. The car's electronic aids are modelled in the game, so whatever you change with the setup will be masked by the electronics. How the game models the VCD tuning option in an Evo I have no idea. You'd hope it was implemented as a knob to adjust the parameters of the AWC system, but it seems it isn't.

 

[Stanielz]

duplicate.

 

[Stanielz]

the evo X is a bad apple.

i have a REAL VW MKV GTI with a stage 3 turbo, intake, turbo back exhaust, konis, sway bars, engine mounts, ~350 HP (in real life) and the tuning/handling is VERY similar to my real GTI.

not all the cars a messed up, id be willing to bet there's more good than bad.

 

[las_cons]

Hey guys, I don't know much about the effects of changing suspension so I'm just going by the in-game info although I've got a few questions still.

For improved manoeuvrability, the game says to lower ride height, but also increase the spring rate to compensate. Does anybody know what the ratio for this is (i.e if I lower the ride height by 4mm, how much should I increase the spring rate by?)

My current settings are default for my Mustang Mach 1, which are:
Front______________________Rear
0 Ride height (mm) 0
5.1 Spring rate (kgf/mm) 4.4
2 Dampers 2

Haven't touched the camber yet but that's pretty straight forward so I don't need to much assistance on that.

Any guidance would be greatly appreciated

 

[las_cons]

Or any other method for improving turning for that matter

 

[Sail IC]

Did a new test. Took a Ferrari California and added adjustable suspension. The California should be a good car to test in as it should have a near 50/50 weight distribution. I took it to the Suzuka, a track i driven a lot and good for tuning as it has many different type of corners. Slow/fast, under breaking/acceleration, and perhaps the best (for tuning) the S-corners. I also used hard sport tires which doesn't have much grip to better feel how the car handles.

Not changing the suspension the car had a lot of understeer limiting lap time. To keep it simple, tuning the front suspension soft and rear hard should reduce the understeer.

Then i used two tunes of the suspension, nothing else changed. Both tunes used opposite max values of the front/read suspension.
Tune-1.... Front/Rear = 18/5
Tune-2.... Front/Rear = 5/19

Both tunes still understeered around the track and felt about the same to drive. Lap times
Tune-1.... 2:20.5
Tune-2.... 2:22.6

Tune-2 lost about 1 sec in sector 1, and 0.5 sec in sector 2 and three. In the S-corners Tune-2 could not hold the same line as Tune-1 at the same speed, but you had to drive it slower to avoid understeering wide.

Even if both tunes felt similar to drive, Tune-1 should have the softer-front/harder-rear springs of the two.

Conclusion: A higher value of the spring setting give softer springs.

Oversteern,
You clearly have more real-life car tuning experience than me, but I'm not as upset with GT5 tune engine as you. Most real-life roadcars have understeer. Maybe to the point that by changing spring settings, the understeer cannot be fully cured. But reducing understeer should result in a faster car.

I just want to know how it works. Does a higher value on springs, damper, roll-bars mean softer or harder. I can live with if it works the opposite, ie higher value means softer as long as I know thats the way it works. What I have a problem with is not knowing I cannot find any documentation that explains it.

 

[NLxAROSA]

Buddy, I have over a decade of real-life track experience and suspension setup expertise, which is far more than what 99% of the people around here can say, so please, don't tell me that I don't know what I'm doing. The truth is, whether you want to acknowledge it or not, that the tuning in this game is just not very accurate, and anyone with real life experience would be able to recognize that immediately.

Nobody denies that, it just means that real-life tuning experience can not be (directly) applied to this game. But once you know the (sometimes mysterious ) ways the engine works, you can tune very accurately. Just don't expect all the numbers to make sense (check out some of the brake or suspension settings on my GT5P tunes to see what I mean).

 

[NMK DOOM]

Ive noticed the "backwards" tuning before on gt5p and now gt5. I had to do my springs and toe settings different than I do on other games. Opposite, makes it feel like the same reactions. Could really be im not used to the physics after playing so many other racing games.

Toe settings really have me confused. They don't feel like they normally would. Also, why did they get rid of the steering angle adjustment

 

[HarryPotter]

If this is all true then my suspension set ups need to be thrown out the damn window.

Although It does seem that they are normal to me. I tuned my 135i and got rid of a lot of understeer. I also felt that the higher spring rates from the stage 3 suspension were far to high for a road car. The car was very skittish over small bumps in the road. I lowered the spring rates but kept the same ratio and that netted me much better handling.

To say forza's tuning is any better is a laugh. That games tuning was so ass backwards it was a joke.

PC sims seem to have actual decent tuning that actually effects the car properly.

 

[rednumbersix]

1. The tuning is not perfectly accurate but it's not too far off (at least as far as I have experienced in game so far)

2. To Mr I've been racing cars ten years... OK me too, who cares. You are obviously having trouble adapting your skills in the real world to that of a video game. I can dial a car in to exactly the way I want it to handle. I just did it with a 5xxhp RX8 which was pushing rather badly after all that "tuning".

3. I race Miatas (google my username), I said it, so what? I set up my first car in game an 89 miata in about 5 minutes to the exact specifications I would run one in real life and it handled just like a real one would had I done the same modifications. New, it behaved just like a bone stock Miata does. Good enough for me.

4. Is it accurate with every car in game... I honestly doubt it. Would I know if they were completely making up the suspension setup of a Ferarri Enzo? No and neither would any of you. Again, Video Game... want realism go buy a miata, forget girls, buy a garage (not the one your mom converted into your bedroom), lots of tools, whatever premium membership is available at tire rack and go to the races. Oh don't forget a roll bar because the way most of you drive online you'll need it.

 

[HarryPotter]

1. The tuning is not perfectly accurate but it's not too far off (at least as far as I have experienced in game so far)

2. To Mr I've been racing cars ten years... OK me too, who cares. You are obviously having trouble adapting your skills in the real world to that of a video game. I can dial a car in to exactly the way I want it to handle. I just did it with a 5xxhp RX8 which was pushing rather badly after all that "tuning".

3. I race Miatas (google my username), I said it, so what? I set up my first car in game an 89 miata in about 5 minutes to the exact specifications I would run one in real life and it handled just like a real one would had I done the same modifications. New, it behaved just like a bone stock Miata does. Good enough for me.

4. Is it accurate with every car in game... I honestly doubt it. Would I know if they were completely making up the suspension setup of a Ferarri Enzo? No and neither would any of you. Again, Video Game... want realism go buy a miata, forget girls, buy a garage (not the one your mom converted into your bedroom), lots of tools, whatever premium membership is available at tire rack and go to the races. Oh don't forget a roll bar because the way most of you drive online you'll need it.

No shame in tracking a miata mate. They are fantastic track cars. Light, RWD, well built and with a plethora of aftermarket backing they are exceptional track toys.

 

[Sail IC]

Maybe the issue with tuning in GT5/GT5P is that is too unsensitive.

I have not played many racing games, but one that I played a lot and had so much fun with was Sports Car GT nearly 10 years ago. What I liked with that game is that when you changed the tuning it had a big effect on how the car handled. As an example, if you put springs on max hard on front and max soft on rear (or opposite) the car became undrivable and it was very obvious what was wrong. In GT5/GT5P you can put a crazy tune on the car and its still very drivable and its hard to feel the tune when driving.

Maybe thats the reason why many have a problem tuning in GT5/GT5P, I have. As its difficult to feel the tune when driving it becomes a guesswork, mostly try and error.

 

[nttdemented]

1. The tuning is not perfectly accurate but it's not too far off (at least as far as I have experienced in game so far)

2. To Mr I've been racing cars ten years... OK me too, who cares. You are obviously having trouble adapting your skills in the real world to that of a video game. I can dial a car in to exactly the way I want it to handle. I just did it with a 5xxhp RX8 which was pushing rather badly after all that "tuning".

3. I race Miatas (google my username), I said it, so what? I set up my first car in game an 89 miata in about 5 minutes to the exact specifications I would run one in real life and it handled just like a real one would had I done the same modifications. New, it behaved just like a bone stock Miata does. Good enough for me.

4. Is it accurate with every car in game... I honestly doubt it. Would I know if they were completely making up the suspension setup of a Ferarri Enzo? No and neither would any of you. Again, Video Game... want realism go buy a miata, forget girls, buy a garage (not the one your mom converted into your bedroom), lots of tools, whatever premium membership is available at tire rack and go to the races. Oh don't forget a roll bar because the way most of you drive online you'll need it.

Exactly my thoughts. I do Solo1 time attacks in my 2006 Civic Si and also have a good bit of real world setup experience working with my Skunk2 Pro-C coilovers. The way the 08 Civic TypeR felt stock in game was pretty much JUST how my car felt when it was closer to stock than it is now. After adding full suspension and dialing in the same spring rates I have in my real car (8k front, 12k rear) and adjusting my dampers close to the same click level (real Skunk2 Pro-C's are about 12 click adjust) (4 rebound front, 8 rebound rear), I don't know what my real compression settings are in the Pro-C's but I used 2 up front and 7 in the rear, did the same alignment I have in my real car camber at -1.8 front, -3 rear with -0.05 front toe and +0.10 rear toe. Using sport soft tires wich feel close to what real life Kuhmo Victo Racer tires feel the car feels exactly like my real car at the limit. Using stock LSD in-game as my real one has the stocker btw.

So, yes I bet the tuning system isn't as accurate for every car in the game but judging from my initial impressions I'd say it isn't half bad. People just like to tune within the extremes and expect good results. Keep your tunes balanced, don't go to extreme on your dampers and spring rates and remember the damper setting that the high spring rates need is the rebound or decompression setting. Good REAL single adjustable shocks adjust rebound settings and only do a tiny amount of effect on bound settings.

And on the EVO X, I don't know what you guys are talking about but I got one sitting in my garage that is doing a sub 7'30" time in the Nordschleife and the way I have it tuned it is very nicely balanced and actually oversteers a tiny bit when on the gass mid corner. Suspension setup is pretty similar to my FF setup on my Civic TypeR, difs are front set to 5% initial torque, 30% accel lock, 5% decel lock; rear is 10% initial torque, 60% accel lock, 20% decel lock and VCD is 20% front 80% rear. Also importat is the brake balance. I have it at 4 front, 7 rear. Try that setup out and tell me your EVO X still understeers.

Cheers and keep tunign!

 

[Blitz187]

Nobody denies that, it just means that real-life tuning experience can not be (directly) applied to this game. But once you know the (sometimes mysterious ) ways the engine works, you can tune very accurately. Just don't expect all the numbers to make sense (check out some of the brake or suspension settings on my GT5P tunes to see what I mean).

Exactly what I was going to say! 👍

 

[MrGrado]

spring rates are definitely not backwards, you can clearly see cars dip the nose more with softer springs under breaks.

 

[z06fun]

I can't say that the spring/damper rates are backwards in that reducing the rate makes it softer or harder, but as in Prologue, the changes have the opposite effect in the balance compared to what they would in real life. In prologue, once I started assuming the springs and damper changes had the opposite effect of real life, the tuning went very quick as far as getting the car to do what I wanted. Add front spring stiffness and you get more front grip, add more rear shock stiffness and you get a delay of the peak front grip, both opposite of real life. I've always wondered if this has something to do with the tire model in the game.
Anyway, my experience in GT5 has been very similar to Prologue. I actually started tuning my first car assuming they had fixed it. Was trying to add more front grip and kept SLOWLY increasing the rear bar, springs, and dampers. Didn't seem to give me more front grip. I then swapped everything front to rear, and there it was LOTS of front grip. Worked just like prologue.

 

[RobGT81]

Its a game/sim at the end of the day, it wont be exact real world stuff. Most games/sims end up having some slightly crazy sounding setups that just work. Even on the sacred iracing some of the fastest guys use setups that shouldnt work in the real world.

 

[rednumbersix]

Exactly my thoughts. I do Solo1 time attacks in my 2006 Civic Si and also have a good bit of real world setup experience working with my Skunk2 Pro-C coilovers. The way the 08 Civic TypeR felt stock in game was pretty much JUST how my car felt when it was closer to stock than it is now. After adding full suspension and dialing in the same spring rates I have in my real car (8k front, 12k rear) and adjusting my dampers close to the same click level (real Skunk2 Pro-C's are about 12 click adjust) (4 rebound front, 8 rebound rear), I don't know what my real compression settings are in the Pro-C's but I used 2 up front and 7 in the rear, did the same alignment I have in my real car camber at -1.8 front, -3 rear with -0.05 front toe and +0.10 rear toe. Using sport soft tires wich feel close to what real life Kuhmo Victo Racer tires feel the car feels exactly like my real car at the limit. Using stock LSD in-game as my real one has the stocker btw.

So, yes I bet the tuning system isn't as accurate for every car in the game but judging from my initial impressions I'd say it isn't half bad. People just like to tune within the extremes and expect good results. Keep your tunes balanced, don't go to extreme on your dampers and spring rates and remember the damper setting that the high spring rates need is the rebound or decompression setting. Good REAL single adjustable shocks adjust rebound settings and only do a tiny amount of effect on bound settings.

And on the EVO X, I don't know what you guys are talking about but I got one sitting in my garage that is doing a sub 7'30" time in the Nordschleife and the way I have it tuned it is very nicely balanced and actually oversteers a tiny bit when on the gass mid corner. Suspension setup is pretty similar to my FF setup on my Civic TypeR, difs are front set to 5% initial torque, 30% accel lock, 5% decel lock; rear is 10% initial torque, 60% accel lock, 20% decel lock and VCD is 20% front 80% rear. Also importat is the brake balance. I have it at 4 front, 7 rear. Try that setup out and tell me your EVO X still understeers.

Cheers and keep tunign!

Well said,

One other thing to note is that tuning is dependent also on the track surface. I generally can set up the suspension harder on higher speed tracks or for cars with more down force.

The ring for example is a track you really need to fine tune the suspension to. I've also seen a lot of suspension setup suggestions posted here that infer the driver is not braking early enough and or not using traditional racing lines. I see far too many posts about dialing out under-steer in cars that shouldn't and or do not require much tweaking.

Also I see a lot of people using sways to tune handling and I highly recommend against this and to use the minimum possible settings (for grip driving) as they do effect the cars in game accurately. I think if you take this approach you notice more effect with spring rates, compression/extension and alignment.

That said, sometimes being unconventional can win races, the track conditions are why racing suspensions are adjustable. This is another thing GT5 gets absolutely right.

 

[Motor City Hami]

I also have a bit of real world racing and tuning experience and have found frustration with the minimal changes that some settings seem to have on car behavior. I have maxed out settings that in the real world would put my car into a wild, undriveable spin, yet the in-game car still pushes. Also noticed this in GT4. What I have noticed so far is that there are one or two tuning devices that seem to have more power or effect than others and if you don't get those set first, nothing else will change the car's handling much.

GT4 - it was the LSD. Without it, a front drive car with softest front springs, swaybars, damping, low ride height, proper camber and the rear at all of the hardest settings possible, full rear toe out and zero camber, yet front drive cars still pushed. Add an LSD and learn how to adjust the decel and accel setting and the cars came to life. Then, all other settings began to make sense and be closer to real world tunes - more like fine tunes.

GT5 - just testing LSD this week, so not sure if this will also have "super powers" like in GT4. But I did discover that ride height makes a huge difference and it is completely backwards to the real world. I began raising the nose on my cars and got more front grip. On a Miata I'm at like -5 front and -15 to -20 rear. Once I got the car to oversteer a little, the other "fine tune" settings began to work as expected.

It just seems to me that there are settings with "super powers" that override everything else. And until you get them right, cars will not respond to real world tunes.

Please try the ride height thing and let me know if you are getting the same results. LSD testing this week.