How will they sell track DLC when you have an editor?

[GENERALSAVANT]

If it's going to be worth having at all it'll allow you to make the classic tracks we love.(i.e. midfield) Also what happens when someone becomes the best track maker and just cranks them out for everyone to download for free? All DLC will have to be cars. Right?

 

[Jawehawk]

First off, we have no idea how comprehensive the course maker will be. If you're expecting it to be as amazing as Modnation or similiar, then you are likely in for a dissapointment. Second, creating real world tracks is far beyond something you can do with just a course maker. It's not as simple as just looking a Google maps....

So basically the answer to this entire thread is just a huge no.

 

[Ferrari458Italia]

No matter what you just can't spend an hour and re-create a world course that PD has personally spent MONTHS on with a full staff. I don't care how "Good" anyone will be at it or not because I'm going to go ahead and presume that the course creation will be basic compared to PD's own system of creating courses.

 

[Pit Crew]

If it's going to be worth having at all it'll allow you to make the classic tracks we love.(i.e. midfield) Also what happens when someone becomes the best track maker and just cranks them out for everyone to download for free? All DLC will have to be cars. Right?

It'll be worth it should presumed improvements we've heard about from kaz are up to "snuff", but if you're thinking that anything we'll be able to render with the course creator could substitute a DLC Track pack that could include locations such as Hockenheim (classic and modern) Watkins Glenn, COTA, or Sebring for example(s) I would disagree unfortunately.

I think the community as a whole will be putting a variety of great TE courses up to be shared, so an individual making 1 or 2 great standout locales (and even that is subject to the scrutiny of users beyond the creators friends list IMO)is hardly a deterent and could probably be inspiration to a community competition.

 

[eran0004]

If it's going to be worth having at all it'll allow you to make the classic tracks we love.(i.e. midfield) Also what happens when someone becomes the best track maker and just cranks them out for everyone to download for free? All DLC will have to be cars. Right?

Er, the course maker will not be that good.
So course maker will not compete with DLC.

 

[Badasp5.0]

As previous people have stated it would be apples vs oranges for user made courses vs DLCs.

 

[Inferno251]

If there is a huge demand on a track, and PD can bring supply, then DLC tracks will sell on mass.

 

[avens]

If there is a huge demand on a track, and PD can bring supply, then DLC tracks will sell on mass.

Not necessarily. GT5's DLC was a massive success especially for what it was, yet it was very short lived.

However, PD already announced there will be tons of DLC for GT6.

 

[Johnnypenso]

If it's going to be worth having at all it'll allow you to make the classic tracks we love.(i.e. midfield) Also what happens when someone becomes the best track maker and just cranks them out for everyone to download for free? All DLC will have to be cars. Right?

No individual user made track will ever gain widespread acceptance or use, unless it's promoted by PD. You just can't get wide enough acceptance for that to happen. At best a club or two would adopt an exceptional track and maybe a few hundred people here or on some other GT fansite.

I think PD would be well served, providing the new Course Maker function has more tinkering tools than the GT5 version, if they ran a contest to see who could generate the best track and then included it as free DLC. How you would manage such a massive undertaking I have no idea, presumably with fan participation and voting would be the best way, narrowing the list as time goes by until it's down to a final 3, that the entire world could drive and vote on. I think it would be an epic contest that would be great for the fans.

 

[20B_4ME]

Even if someone is able to replicate the layouts of famous tracks, I would still buy the DLC versions as they will have authentic laser scanned replication (not just what someone thinks it looks like it should be) and the scenery on the DLC tracks will be more realistic too.

That said, if the track editor lets us actually realistically and carefully make layouts, we will at least be able to replicate old track layouts and tracks that don't exist anymore!

 

[Inferno251]

Not necessarily. GT5's DLC was a massive success especially for what it was, yet it was very short lived.

However, PD already announced there will be tons of DLC for GT6.

Didn't people want Spa though?

Besides, that was also due to the appearance of the XL and Academy editions

 

[Falango]

I'm only expecting a refurbished version of what we have now, with a few more features, and a larger playing field. We might have a bit more control in terms of length, elevation change, length of straights, etc, but I highly doubt we'll see anything close to what could be called a course creator, as opposed to course editor.

 

[TheDabbinDave]

No individual user made track will ever gain widespread acceptance or use, unless it's promoted by PD. You just can't get wide enough acceptance for that to happen. At best a club or two would adopt an exceptional track and maybe a few hundred people here or on some other GT fansite. I think PD would be well served, providing the new Course Maker function has more tinkering tools than the GT5 version, if they ran a contest to see who could generate the best track and then included it as free DLC. How you would manage such a massive undertaking I have no idea, presumably with fan participation and voting would be the best way, narrowing the list as time goes by until it's down to a final 3, that the entire world could drive and vote on. I think it would be an epic contest that would be great for the fans.

You've played LittleBigPlanet and or Modnation Racers, right? Their share system and user rating system would do this quite well in GT6, IF PD and SONY were wise enough to follow the lead of those games.

 

[Johnnypenso]

You've played LittleBigPlanet and or Modnation Racers, right? Their share system and user rating system would do this quite well in GT6, IF PD and SONY were wise enough to follow the lead of those games.

No I haven't but there is a difference. All tracks in Modnation are made up tracks right? You aren't racing on Spa, Monaco, Monza etc. No made up track, no matter how good, will ever compare to the allure of a real world track with decades of motor racing history, it just isn't the same. I just don't believe it's going to be possible for one person to create something so outstanding that it will be wildly popular, without PD's backing of course. Time will tell.

 

[GENERALSAVANT]

You've played LittleBigPlanet and or Modnation Racers, right? Their share system and user rating system would do this quite well in GT6, IF PD and SONY were wise enough to follow the lead of those games.

👍
This was my original point of reference and why the question arose. Because if one can duplicate everything but the photo-realistic background, it may be a hard sell for most. I'll probably pay for DLC but look at the one guy in these message boards who spent days making the bathurst track in GT5! Now if we get more control and options in GT6 it makes the question very valid...

 

[ShiftingGears]

👍
This was my original point of reference and why the question arose. Because if one can duplicate everything but the photo-realistic background, it may be a hard sell for most. I'll probably pay for DLC but look at the one guy in these message boards who spent days making the bathurst track in GT5! Now if we get more control and options in GT6 it makes the question very valid...

That's a very big "if". The only thing we know about the new course maker is that it is 400sqkm and that they were working on a new course generation algorithm. The fact that they were trying to sell it based on magnitude (first 100x100 then 50x50 then 20x20) suggests that there isn't a significant improvement as far as the interface/track options go. But we will see.

 

[Johnnypenso]

That's a very big "if". The only thing we know about the new course maker is that it is 400sqkm and that they were working on a new course generation algorithm. The fact that they were trying to sell it based on magnitude (first 100x100 then 50x50 then 20x20) suggests that there isn't a significant improvement as far as the interface/track options go. But we will see.

No ability to drop in hairpins or "S" curves, overly long front straightaways, no control on elevations...if those things aren't improved it'll just be the same random mess with a prettier background.

 

[CC570]

I was under the understanding that the terrain 20x20km or greater would be fixed and whatever flexibility there is would be in the layout of the courses on that terrain. If so, then the thought that one could replicate real world courses is ludicrous.

 

[IceMan PJN]

You've played LittleBigPlanet and or Modnation Racers, right? Their share system and user rating system would do this quite well in GT6, IF PD and SONY were wise enough to follow the lead of those games.

I haven't played LBP in a long time and never got around to ModNation Racers, but I've referenced Forza Motorsport in regards to the problem with sharing in GT. As I often criticized with GT5, it's a crying shame how we had to leap through flaming hoops just to share our tracks with but a handful of people because the whole sharing system in GT5 was awful.

If it had been Forza, the entire community of millions of players would have access to courses, rather than just people on my friend list, and Forza would probably allow me to share multiple courses at one time whereas GT5 allowed one at a time, as I recall. In Forza, you can search for the newest additions, oldest additions, most expensive or least expensive (which shouldn't come into play with shared tracks,) most downloaded, and highest rated. If there's a great track that tens of thousands of players are downloading and it's rated really highly, I can easily find it and get it as well.

With GT5, this just wasn't even remotely possible. The best hope you had was to SPAM the crap out of message boards, trying to promote your Course Maker track. Then, if you found people who were interested, you have to exchange friend requests will all of them. Then, all two or three of those people can download your one available track. That's it; a handful of people, and not hundreds or thousands of people. Then you have to do all this over again for the one track you want to promote next. It was all horrible.

I really want to see this business work a lot better in GT6. We desperately need a system like Forza's. Otherwise, our user-created courses are pretty much useless.

 

[eran0004]

I really want to see this business work a lot better in GT6. We desperately need a system like Forza's. Otherwise, our user-created courses are pretty much useless.

Yeah, GT5 wasn't really meant for trading, it seems to be designed more towards sharing between friends.

But it's only useless if your goal is to spread your track to thousands of people. There's a lot of other things you can do with the tracks. Like, racing on them.

 

[CC570]

I really want to see this business work a lot better in GT6. We desperately need a system like Forza's. Otherwise, our user-created courses are pretty much useless.

You create it you can drive it as well as anyone in a lobby with you or any of your friends that you shared it with. I don't call that useless.

 

[Johnnypenso]

I haven't played LBP in a long time and never got around to ModNation Racers, but I've referenced Forza Motorsport in regards to the problem with sharing in GT. As I often criticized with GT5, it's a crying shame how we had to leap through flaming hoops just to share our tracks with but a handful of people because the whole sharing system in GT5 was awful.

If it had been Forza, the entire community of millions of players would have access to courses, rather than just people on my friend list, and Forza would probably allow me to share multiple courses at one time whereas GT5 allowed one at a time, as I recall. In Forza, you can search for the newest additions, oldest additions, most expensive or least expensive (which shouldn't come into play with shared tracks,) most downloaded, and highest rated. If there's a great track that tens of thousands of players are downloading and it's rated really highly, I can easily find it and get it as well.

With GT5, this just wasn't even remotely possible. The best hope you had was to SPAM the crap out of message boards, trying to promote your Course Maker track. Then, if you found people who were interested, you have to exchange friend requests will all of them. Then, all two or three of those people can download your one available track. That's it; a handful of people, and not hundreds or thousands of people. Then you have to do all this over again for the one track you want to promote next. It was all horrible.

I really want to see this business work a lot better in GT6. We desperately need a system like Forza's. Otherwise, our user-created courses are pretty much useless.

Post of the day right there:tup:

You create it you can drive it as well as anyone in a lobby with you or any of your friends that you shared it with. I don't call that useless.

Not useless to you, but in terms of the community as a whole and the ability to spread out your own track to the masses, yeah, GT was pretty useless in that regard. The above post does a great job of providing some perspective as to what is possible with sharing in a console based game.

 

[CC570]

Post of the day right there:tup:



Not useless to you, but in terms of the community as a whole and the ability to spread out your own track to the masses, yeah, GT was pretty useless in that regard. The above post does a great job of providing some perspective as to what is possible with sharing in a console based game.

I don't know. I used the course creator to make new tracks to drive on. Some I share with friends to race on, most I didn't. To me it would seem more than a little presumptuous to create a track with the idea that the masses or community as a whole would share it or want to use it to race on.

 

[TheDabbinDave]

No I haven't but there is a difference. All tracks in Modnation are made up tracks right? You aren't racing on Spa, Monaco, Monza etc. No made up track, no matter how good, will ever compare to the allure of a real world track with decades of motor racing history, it just isn't the same. I just don't believe it's going to be possible for one person to create something so outstanding that it will be wildly popular, without PD's backing of course. Time will tell.

Johnny, you are completely overlooking the point of my comment. Which was to remind you of an excellent method of generating user created content. Look into it.

 

[Johnnypenso]

Johnny, you are completely overlooking the point of my comment. Which was to remind you of an excellent method of generating user created content. Look into it.

Gotcha...my bad..

 

[PepeMickey]

Even if someone is able to replicate the layouts of famous tracks, I would still buy the DLC versions as they will have authentic laser scanned replication (not just what someone thinks it looks like it should be) and the scenery on the DLC tracks will be more realistic too. That said, if the track editor lets us actually realistically and carefully make layouts, we will at least be able to replicate old track layouts and tracks that don't exist anymore!

Laser Scanned? Do you have any source?

 

[Johnnypenso]

Laser Scanned? Do you have any source?

I don't have the quote in front of me but I have used it before, Kaz saying specifically that they are laser scanning new tracks.

 

[JohnScoonsBeard]

No I haven't but there is a difference. All tracks in Modnation are made up tracks right? You aren't racing on Spa, Monaco, Monza etc. No made up track, no matter how good, will ever compare to the allure of a real world track with decades of motor racing history, it just isn't the same. I just don't believe it's going to be possible for one person to create something so outstanding that it will be wildly popular, without PD's backing of course. Time will tell.

Johnny you should have look at those games if you get the chance.

Modnation has a superb track creation system. It's simple to understand, quick to load and yet incredibly creative.

I don't like Little Big Planet Racing from a racing point of view but the sharing aspect of tracks is exactly what PD should be doing.

Both games although kiddie arcade racers have huge amounts of real world versions of tracks. Search for Spa and multiple versions come up rated by the community. All real world tracks I could think of have been made and some have a real feel for the circuits in terms of corners, straights and height changes (even if some are made of denim, patchwork quilt and coat buttons!)

Road America
Track of The Americas
Monza
Imola
Hockenheim
Laguna Seca
Interlagos
Silverstone
Suzuka

Even a very good representaion of GT's very own Trial Mountain.

 

[ShiftingGears]

Post of the day right there:tup:

+1

I don't know. I used the course creator to make new tracks to drive on. Some I share with friends to race on, most I didn't. To me it would seem more than a little presumptuous to create a track with the idea that the masses or community as a whole would share it or want to use it to race on.

For the most part, I found my own tracks useless, because I wanted to race on them. The AI on user-created courses was horrifically slow compared to A-Spec (that is saying something) and there is no way around this because the players cannot choose what cars the computer opponents drive. There was no challenging racing to speak of.

If you want to race online, the main problem is that players simply do not want to race on tracks they are unfamiliar with. It does not put them on a level playing field with those who are familiar with a given circuit. They will be unfamiliar with more circuits than they otherwise would be if there isn't an effective way of sharing them.

The sharing function restricts access to user created tracks so heavily it means that there isn't a great mechanism for players to familiarise themselves with tracks - instead what happens is that they run into them during online lobbies not knowing the name of the user created track, only what scenic area the track is based in. This lack of familiarity is also a further disincentive for most players to race on someone else's custom track because most were particularly unforgiving due to there sharp bends immediately after blind crests. This makes the tracks harder to learn than they otherwise would be.

So really, it was a nice idea but poorly executed and hence for me, a waste of time. The fact that PD has only mentioned that the creator area in GT6 will be larger gives me no hope whatsoever.

 

[MoLiEG]

Oooobviously the track editor won't be that advanced, no matter how "big" it is (in terms of the area we can use).. You really think we'll be able to recreate, what... Yas Marina???