Hurricane Katrina; Is the U.S. responding fast enough?

[Young_Warrior]

Around and around we go...

Five days is incorrect. First responders were in the effected zones within 24 hours. If you want to know why the National Guard was late or why the Red Cross wasn't allowed in the Super Dome, then you must ask your questions to the Governor of Louisiana, Kathleen Blanco.

In the United States of America, Young Warrior, it is illegal to take property that does not belong to you. There is no excuse to break into a grocery store and steal a box of Snickers bars. There is no excuse to break into an electronics store and steal a plasma screen TV. There is no excuse to break into a Footlocker and steal a pair a Jordan XX shoes. People are not taking bread or water, it is an excuse to loot, as proven by the many images on TV.

Well when british press got into new orleans they visited some of these superstores ie sells food drink and electronics and they showed that all the tv's steroes etc was still there and that people had only taken water and food.

 

[Young_Warrior]

Are you saying that those people are justified in taking what they need from stores in Houston then?

Are you saying that if someone who was evacuated to Houston but still had nothing to keep themselves fed, would be justified in breaking into a store in the area? Need does not justify the action - the fact that it is essentially refuse forefeit by its owners justifies it.

If I were hungry and desperate it would not change my stand on this issue.

Liar. I guess you would be one of the first people to die and you sure as hell wouldnt be able to survive in that enviroment even if someone was kind enough to feed you scraps.

 

[Young_Warrior]

Ok heres a couple of things me and some men discussed. These men were african americans, west indians and africans.

They argued alot and I have drawn some of the things that stood out most to me.

They argued that the first thing the government or state or whatever did was not send food or shelter but sent guns to new orleans. Why? Why couldnt they send food and water which would help the people.


Eh I cant remeber some of the other points at the moment but i'll get back to you guys

P.S yes this is like my 3rd post in a row but I wanted it to stand out and separate what im saying.

 

[Danoff]

Liar. I guess you would be one of the first people to die and you sure as hell wouldnt be able to survive in that enviroment even if someone was kind enough to feed you scraps.

Such a violent reaction to such a simple thing. Could it be that you want everyone's morals to be as maleable as yours?

Ok heres a couple of things me and some men discussed. These men were african americans, west indians and africans.

They argued alot and I have drawn some of the things that stood out most to me.

They argued that the first thing the government or state or whatever did was not send food or shelter but sent guns to new orleans. Why? Why couldnt they send food and water which would help the people.


Eh I cant remeber some of the other points at the moment but i'll get back to you guys

P.S yes this is like my 3rd post in a row but I wanted it to stand out and separate what im saying.

This is a toughie. Could it be that they sent in troops because people were shooting at rescue and supply helicopters?

 

[ledhed]

Well when british press got into new orleans they visited some of these superstores ie sells food drink and electronics and they showed that all the tv's steroes etc was still there and that people had only taken water and food.

So all the video of people walking/running around with plasma tvs and all sortsof other goods like clothes , sporting goods , guns , etc. etc. ...ummm they were fake ? And the shopping carts full of toys and other stuff...they were make believe ..and the thousands of eye witness accounts...they were also pipe dreams...but somehow I should discoulnt all of that and just believe ;

Well when british press got into new orleans they visited some of these superstores ie sells food drink and electronics and they showed that all the tv's steroes etc was still there and that people had only taken water and food

No one could be that dumb and still be able to breathe and walk at the same
time .

Maybe not we have this gem .;

They argued that the first thing the government or state or whatever did was not send food or shelter but sent guns to new orleans. Why? Why couldnt they send food and water which would help the people.

Ummm they sent help first ... water - food -etc...then after they got shot at and robbed and had no more stuff or just ran for cover ..THEN they first waited for the guys WITH GUNS to come and deal with the idiots so that they could help people without getting robbed and shot . I doubt the idiots could have used anymore guns than they already had . But then again ..when was the last time you had to send the army in to pacify a city .. JUST SO YOU COULD RESCUE PEOPLE ?
Or were you watching from another planet where the dimensions are reversed ?
And none of this actually happened ?

 

[smellysocks12]

So all the video of people walking/running around with plasma tvs and all sortsof other goods like clothes , sporting goods , guns , etc. etc. ...ummm they were fake ? And the shopping carts full of toys and other stuff...they were make believe ..and the thousands of eye witness accounts...they were also pipe dreams...but somehow I should discoulnt all of that and just believe ;

No, that all happened, but it doesn't represent the majority. This IS the most interesting footage to show on the news, so people think that happens on a massive scale. Those are the criminals who ruin the image of the people who are just trying to survive.

 

[ledhed]

Eh I cant remeber some of the other points at the moment but i'll get back to you guys

We are waiting with baited breath for more wisdom from the dyslexia dimension .

No, that all happened, but it doesn't represent the majority. This IS the most interesting footage to show on the news, so people think that happens on a massive scale. Those are the criminals who ruin the image of the people who are just trying to survive.

.


And by this " minority of criminals " acting as they did they caused the suffering pain and deaths of hundreds of people who JUST wanted to survive ...not loot rape and pillage. for every ten video clips there are bodies of people who were shot and robbed and left to float in the stagnant water..that no one got a picture of ..not to mention how much looting went on in areas that the news guys were afraid to go into or just missed because of what was going on .

 

[Young_Warrior]

So basically what you are saying is led head that all black people steal.

 

[Young_Warrior]

We are waiting with baited breath for more wisdom from the dislexia dimension .

.


And by this " minority of criminals " acting as they did they caused the suffering pain and deaths of hundreds of people who JUST wanted to survive ...not loot rape and pillage.

Firstly spell dyslexia correctly if your going to attempt to use it and secondly i'll get back to you.

Thirdly these minority criminals who acted like they did are still a minority what difference does it make that they added to the suffereing. They are a minority.

 

[ledhed]

You must be the stupidest - most thick headed -ignorant putz that ever claimed to own a morsal of brain matter .

So basically what you are saying is led head that all black people steal.

???????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????? WTF ?

 

[Young_Warrior]

You must be the stupidest - most thick headed -ignorant putz that ever claimed to own a morsal of brain matter .

you are being blunt and brash and so will I but I have no need to stoop down to childish name calling.

 

[ledhed]

So basically your just saying that all Irish are priests .

 

[Young_Warrior]

So basically your just saying that all Irish are priests .

Ledhead say instead of poor black people in new orleans there were working class and middle class white people do you think they wouldnt break in for food? And for the few that looted do you think the media would portray a imagine of mass widespread looting?

And lastly if you were in new orleans would you break in a store for food and water?

 

[Danoff]

Ledhead say instead of poor black people in new orleans there were working class and middle class white people do you think they wouldnt break in for food? And for the few that looted do you think the media would portray a imagine of mass widespread looting?

And lastly if you were in new orleans would you break in a store for food and water?

Good lord. Why did you bring up race AT ALL. Here's the deal. Most people grabbed food. Some people grabbed expensive inventory. Some people shot at rescuers. The people who shot at rescuers had to be subdued by the military.

Where does race enter the equation AT ALL?

 

[Young_Warrior]

Good lord. Why did you bring up race AT ALL. Here's the deal. Most people grabbed food. Some people grabbed expensive inventory. Some people shot at rescuers. The people who shot at rescuers had to be subdued by the military.

Where does race enter the equation AT ALL?

Because the rescue effort was a shambles. It would have even been a shambles for a third world nation.

 

[ledhed]

Quote:
Originally Posted by danoff

Good lord. Why did you bring up race AT ALL. Here's the deal. Most people grabbed food. Some people grabbed expensive inventory. Some people shot at rescuers. The people who shot at rescuers had to be subdued by the military.

Where does race enter the equation AT ALL?

ANSWERED BY YOUNG _WARRIOR;
Because the rescue effort was a shambles. It would have even been a shambles for a third world nation

And somehow that has to do with lesbian midgets in diapers how ?
WTF does the rescue effort have to do with race ? did only ONE race get hit by a hurricane ?....or wtf ??? This is just one of the stupidest innane forum experiances I have ever had the privilage to be annoyed by . WTF is wrong with you ???

 

[smellysocks12]

lesbian midgets in diapers how ?

 

[Young_Warrior]

And somehow that has to do with lesbian midgets in diapers how ?
WTF does the rescue effort have to do with race ? did only ONE race get hit by a hurricane ?....or wtf ??? This is just one of the stupidest innane forum experiances I have ever had the privilage to be annoyed by . WTF is wrong with you ???

Because that is the question being asked right now by the black community and even our media is doubting the integrity of some of the people in your nation. Oh ledhead why are you not answering my question. Stop evading it.

 

[ledhed]

Quote:
Originally Posted by ledhed

And somehow that has to do with lesbian midgets in diapers how ?
WTF does the rescue effort have to do with race ? did only ONE race get hit by a hurricane ?....or wtf ??? This is just one of the stupidest innane forum experiances I have ever had the privilage to be annoyed by . WTF is wrong with you ???



Because that is the question being asked right now by the black community and even our media is doubting the integrity of some of the people in your nation. Oh ledhead why are you not answering my question. Stop evading it.

IT HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH RACE



Get it yet ?


And anyway WHAT QUESTION DID YOU ASK ! ?????????????

 

[smellysocks12]

IT HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH RACE



Get it yet ?

 

[ledhed]

Do you have a life outside of TV and computers ? If you did you wouldnt need some guy you dont know , ...who may be somewhat known... by a small minority of music (?) fans... on a tv set to set your standards of race relations for you . When you wake up and think about a date do you look to see what R kelly has to say about it ? How about if one day you want to go to a Korean temple do you search the TV for a Korean rapper to tell you what you think ?

 

[smellysocks12]

Do you have a life outside of TV and computers ? If you did you wouldnt need some guy you dont know , ...who may be somewhat known... by a small minority of music (?) fans... on a tv set to set your standards of race relations for you . When you wake up and think about a date do you look to see what R kelly has to say about it ? How about if one day you want to go to a Korean temple do you search the TV for a Korean rapper to tell you what you think ?

I hope you're not talking to me, because I also think Kanye is an idiot. It isn't a race problem, it's a class /wealth problem.




By the way, Bush was spotted visiting Louisiana again.

 

[ledhed]

PRELIMINARY CENSUS BUREAU estimates of the results of the 2000 Census indicate that the numbers of minorities in the United States are growing - and at a rate greater than that of the population as a whole.

FOR EXAMPLE, the Census Bureau reports that there are currently 35.4 million African Americans in the United States, comprising 12.5% of the total population (up from 30 million and 12.1% in 1990). This 16% growth in the African American population since 1990 exceeds the growth rate of the American population as a whole, which grew by 10.7% overall.

THESE GROWTH RATES demonstrate that minorities have -- and will continue to -- provide much of the growth in the American labor force for years to come. Our economy simply will not run without their contributions. For example, the National Council of La Raza estimates that 40% of new jobs are filled by Latino workers, and that this rate will only increase over the decades

THE MAJORITY of African Americans live in the South (54%), followed by the Northeast and Midwest (19% each), and the West (8%). Fifty-three percent of African Americans live in the central centers of metropolitan areas. The five states with the greatest number of African Americans in 2000, according to the Census Bureau, are New York, California, Texas, Florida, and Georgia.

POVERTY

1999 CURRENT POPULATION SURVEY data concluded that 32.3 million Americans were poor, for a national poverty rate of 11.8% -- the lowest level since 1979. The African American poverty rate was 23.6 percent (down from 31.9% in 1990); Native Americans had a 25.9 percent rate (down from 30.9%), Latinos were poor at a rate of 22.8% (down from 28.1%), while Asians and Pacific Islanders had a 10.7% poverty rate (down from 12.2% in 1990). Just under eight percent of whites -- 7.7% -- were below the poverty line, down from a 10.7% rate in 1990. (In 1999, the poverty line was set at $17,029.)

Do the math . note that there are more poor white people in the US than any minority ( must be why they call them minoritys huh ) .
So whats this tell you ?

While we assume that all poor children are minorities, the truth is that of the 14 million poor children in the U.S. in 2000, 9 million were white and 4 million were black, with Hispanics included in both racial categories

http://www.naesp.org/ContentLoad.do?contentId=836

[url[/url]

 

[smellysocks12]

And? In the USA poor whites are just as screwed as poor black people. I never claimed otherwise.

 

[ledhed]

national poverty rate of 11.8% ...In 1999, the poverty line was set at $17,029.)

Poverty is relative .


This is what the UN considers poverty

A new report estimates that over five million people live in absolute poverty in Britain. The survey, Breadline Europe: The Measurement of Poverty, researched measurements of poverty across the continent and concluded that there were increasing drastic levels of poverty in the UK.

The survey took its definition of absolute poverty from a 1995 United Nations statement, defining it as "a condition characterised by severe deprivation of basic human needs." The UN statement defined anyone lacking three or more of the following items as living in absolute poverty: food, safe drinking water, sanitation facilities, health, shelter, education and access to social security benefits

US = the poverty line was set at $17,029.
No person living in the US has any reason to fit this UN standard . NOT ONE .

Only in america...

Size of
Family Unit 48 Contiguous
States and D.C. Alaska Hawaii
1 $ 8,980 $11,210 $10,330
2 12,120 15,140 13,940
3 15,260 19,070 17,550
4 18,400 23,000 21,160
5 21,540 26,930 24,770
6 24,680 30,860 28,380
7 27,820 34,790 31,990
8 30,960 38,720 35,600
For each additional
person, add 3,140 3,930 3,610

Programs using the guidelines (or percentage multiples of the guidelines — for instance, 125 percent or 185 percent of the guidelines) in determining eligibility include Head Start, the Food Stamp Program, the National School Lunch Program, the Low-Income Home Energy Assistance Program, and the Children's Health Insurance Program. Note that in general, cash public assistance programs (Temporary Assistance for Needy Families and Supplemental Security Income) do NOT use the poverty guidelines in determining eligibility. The Earned Income Tax Credit program also does NOT use the poverty guidelines to determine eligibility.


I am still searching to see how " screwed" they are . Unless you count having to do all the paper work screwed. Screwed compared to what ...Somalia ..the UK ..Germany ? Compared to being rich ? It really does suck being " poor" even in the US ...maybe ESPECIALLY in the US were you have all the freedoms and material goods to enjoy...BUT compared to someone comming from another country there first thought about our poor is how "lucky" they are compared to being poor where they come from .
Whats " poverty " mean to you ?

 

[Danoff]

national poverty rate of 11.8% ...In 1999, the poverty line was set at $17,029.)

Poverty is relative .


This is what the UN considers poverty

A new report estimates that over five million people live in absolute poverty in Britain. The survey, Breadline Europe: The Measurement of Poverty, researched measurements of poverty across the continent and concluded that there were increasing drastic levels of poverty in the UK.

The survey took its definition of absolute poverty from a 1995 United Nations statement, defining it as "a condition characterised by severe deprivation of basic human needs." The UN statement defined anyone lacking three or more of the following items as living in absolute poverty: food, safe drinking water, sanitation facilities, health, shelter, education and access to social security benefits

US = the poverty line was set at $17,029.
No person living in the US has any reason to fit this UN standard . NOT ONE .

Only in america...

Size of
Family Unit 48 Contiguous
States and D.C. Alaska Hawaii
1 $ 8,980 $11,210 $10,330
2 12,120 15,140 13,940
3 15,260 19,070 17,550
4 18,400 23,000 21,160
5 21,540 26,930 24,770
6 24,680 30,860 28,380
7 27,820 34,790 31,990
8 30,960 38,720 35,600
For each additional
person, add 3,140 3,930 3,610

Programs using the guidelines (or percentage multiples of the guidelines — for instance, 125 percent or 185 percent of the guidelines) in determining eligibility include Head Start, the Food Stamp Program, the National School Lunch Program, the Low-Income Home Energy Assistance Program, and the Children's Health Insurance Program. Note that in general, cash public assistance programs (Temporary Assistance for Needy Families and Supplemental Security Income) do NOT use the poverty guidelines in determining eligibility. The Earned Income Tax Credit program also does NOT use the poverty guidelines to determine eligibility.


I am still searching to see how " screwed" they are . Unless you count having to do all the paper work screwed. Screwed compared to what ...Somalia ..the UK ..Germany ? Compared to being rich ? It really does suck being " poor" even in the US ...maybe ESPECIALLY in the US were you have all the freedoms and material goods to enjoy...BUT compared to someone comming from another country there first thought about our poor is how "lucky" they are compared to being poor where they come from .
Whats " poverty " mean to you ?

See all this money we're wasting on people who haven't earned it?? This is what's wrong with the US.

 

[smellysocks12]

Once again you're counting in nominal values. You're acting like 17K a year is a lot of money. But you forget to keep in mind that to buy whatever an Ethiopian can buy for $1 in his own country, you have to spend $20 in the USA.


Now I'm not saying that poverty in the USA is comparable to Ethiopia, because it's not. But by using nominal values you're making it look like a 1:100 comparison, while it might only be 1:4 when thinking in terms of goods. $17K per year isn't a lot considering that these people probably work 7 days a week, 12 hours a day on 3 different jobs with hardly any vacation.


Of course a poor person from Somalia will be glad to be in the USA (or Europe for that matter), because at least there is at least some type of social security, which isn't available in his own country. Then again I never said that he wouldn't be happy, there is still poverty in certain areas in the USA, which is a serious problem. But just because it is better in the USA doesn't mean that it's the best place to live. "I would rather eat my food off the floor than out of a toilet bowl" is pretty much the same type of expresssion.



Anyway, I'm not here to BASH the USA, not at all, it is a better country to live in than most countries, but from my point of view certainly not the best.

 

[ledhed]

Your missing the point . "Poverty" is relative the same way a "dollar " is relative to where you spend it . If you ask someone from the US who qualifies for that list if they are " poor" 90% of them will say " yes" But take someone from Nicaragua and put them in the same circumstances and they most likely will answer no .
This is not how we define poor in the US ;

"a condition characterised by severe deprivation of basic human needs." The UN statement defined anyone lacking three or more of the following items as living in absolute poverty: food, safe drinking water, sanitation facilities, health, shelter, education and access to social security benefits

Its more like how we define " totally screwed " maybe..but no one in the US should meet that criteria. Ask the people who invade from Mexico and other places down south ..or risk starving or freezing to death by comming over in shipping containers from oversea's .

Its fine that the US is not your cup of java ...but get your facts straight . its far from hell on earth..unless your a liberal looking for a candidate who can actually win something and are stuck losing to GWB .

See all this money we're wasting on people who haven't earned it?? This is what's wrong with the US.

And thats why you would never get elected EVER ...forever EVER

 

[Solid Fro]

Its fine that the US is not your cup of java ...but get your facts straight . its far from hell on earth..unless your a liberal looking for a candidate who can actually win something and are stuck losing to GWB .

The Democratic party with nutjobs like Howard Dean as chairmen and senators who blame everything under the sun on Bush, the Republicans will hold the White House for many, many terms to come.

Liberals can't win, the Democrats will, only after they take back their party.

 

[Zardoz]

This thread is hopelessly off-topic and will never get back on it.