I <DUSTED> THE GT40, MAN!!!

[michael_s_k]

Glad you enjoyed it. That's an interesting point you raise; the lowered weight can reduce traction slightly. Still, I think that gear setup can fix traction issues for pretty much every car in the game, especially the Speed 12. If you're struggling with the racing modified Speed 12, here's my tune for it:

springs: 3.8 / 4.6
ride height: 85 / 105
dampers (B + R): 2 / 8
camber: 3.6 / 1.0
toe: -0.20 / 0.20
stabilisers: 4 / 4

gears: final gear to 5.500, then auto setup to 4, then final gear to 2.500, then set individual gears to 2.685, 1.955, 1.620, 1.350, 1.129, 0.959

downforce: 0.78 / 0.99
LSD (I, A, D): 30, 30, 1

Max out the rear height if you want, though it'll just make the car understeer more on corner entry. Between 3.5 and 4.0 front camber and 30 LSD initial makes a huge difference for corner exit stability. You can leave Decel. to 1 since the car handles fine entering corners, as the ride height is moving the car's center of gravity forward. The soft springs help greatly on bumpy tracks, the Speed 12 can cruise through curbs and dips (I tested this tune on Autumn Ring, where the second half can throw your car off if its springs are too stiff).

The absolutely crucial thing though, is to never use 1st gear. 2nd gear will be slow enough that the Speed 12 can launch and exit hairpins without kicking out, so drive in manual and keep the car in 2nd around tight corners. Hope that helps out.

Thanks. I smiled on reading your avoiding 1st gear advice as I know only too well the horror 1st gear can represent when operating cars using ultra high-powered engines with tremendous torque. I have been overheard trying out my humble attempt at a GT 2 catchphrase, "1st gear's a killer, baby", in regard to such vehicles (which is no "It's getting too hot for the pepper" but is at least an accurate observation). In any case, I am sure you're correct in all you've presented here (looking forward to trying your tuning which isn't too different from my current setup except for the intriguing camber settings and which I know will prove rewarding). Thanks again, TeaKanji!

 

[m2595]

I wanted to do this race with a period-correct car so I went with a Stratos with stage 3 turbo, racing transmission, triple disc clutch, racing flywheel, sports brakes, super soft racing slicks, racing suspension and all three weight reduction settings applied. With this setup I had 297HP on tap (NTSC-J). I only fine-tuned the gearbox to have longer gears with the auto setting, nothing else.
It was an overkill, though - I finished 0.8 seconds in front of the GT40, but I think even a larger gap is possible, because I made a few mistakes.

 

[TheAdmiester]

I wanted to do this race with a period-correct car so I went with a Stratos with stage 3 turbo, racing transmission, triple disc clutch, racing flywheel, sports brakes, super soft racing slicks, racing suspension and all three weight reduction settings applied. With this setup I had 297HP on tap (NTSC-J). I only fine-tuned the gearbox to have longer gears with the auto setting, nothing else.
It was an overkill, though - I finished 0.8 seconds in front of the GT40, but I think even a larger gap is possible, because I made a few mistakes.

Europa is also a good candidate for it. You can finish decently ahead of it with around 170hp (IIRC), weight reduction stage 3, racing transmission and suspension (stock settings, no adjustments), and racing medium tires.

I was testing a little yesterday out of boredom/curiosity and found that, at least for a race where the GT40 starts in 1st or 2nd with nothing blocking it, you can go about as low as 140hp with a really smooth race and grippy tires. You can probably go down to around 110hp if the GT40 is blocked at the start as it makes things a bit too easy.

 

[TeaKanji]

I guess here's the proof that ~140hp cars can win, then...

 

[michael_s_k]

I wanted to do this race with a period-correct car so I went with a Stratos with stage 3 turbo, racing transmission, triple disc clutch, racing flywheel, sports brakes, super soft racing slicks, racing suspension and all three weight reduction settings applied. With this setup I had 297HP on tap (NTSC-J). I only fine-tuned the gearbox to have longer gears with the auto setting, nothing else.
It was an overkill, though - I finished 0.8 seconds in front of the GT40, but I think even a larger gap is possible, because I made a few mistakes.

Cool. Have yet to try it with a period-specific vehicle unless you count the 239 HP Mini Cooper 1275S MK1 which, in real life, was not to the best of my knowledge capable of 239 HP so I hesitate to include it as a "period-specific" contender. But I dig your approach and will have to give the Historic Car Cup Rome Circuit GT40 challenge a try using a vehicle manufactured between (around) 1964 through 1975 (as that's the period most of the Historic Car Cup challengers seem to be from (correct me if I'm wrong as any car of great enough significance might be considered "historic" so who knows which cars might show up). In any event, I respect and admire your achieving success vs the GT40 utilizing a vehicle that was manufactured within the (apparent) time period of btwm '64 and '75. I have to say, when it comes to the GT League and similar races where GT2 will allow one to sneak in a totally inappropriate vehicle (i.e. using a USA-manufactured vehicle in the German cup and so on), once I became "serious" about GT 2 I began using only vehicles which matched the event in questions. For example, using a German-made vehicle in the German Nationals or a Japanese or US-made car in the Pacific League event. So: respect! In any event, I appreciate your sharing your Stratos experience including modification info amd look forward to taking the Stratos (a car I have rarely ever driven) out for a spin vs the GT40.

 

[michael_s_k]

Europa is also a good candidate for it. You can finish decently ahead of it with around 170hp (IIRC), weight reduction stage 3, racing transmission and suspension (stock settings, no adjustments), and racing medium tires.

I was testing a little yesterday out of boredom/curiosity and found that, at least for a race where the GT40 starts in 1st or 2nd with nothing blocking it, you can go about as low as 140hp with a really smooth race and grippy tires. You can probably go down to around 110hp if the GT40 is blocked at the start as it makes things a bit too easy.

The Europa. Nice. I had never even considered that as a contender vs the GT40 and am excited to give it a try myself as it sounds interesting indeed. As in "challenging".

 

[michael_s_k]

I guess here's the proof that ~140hp cars can win, then...

Nice nice nice nice NICE! Thanks, TeaKanji, for sharing your achievement and especially for including the video. So many don't post videos or even just images of their victories. I myself am prone to such idleness (aka laziness) that I'll post just images of wins when I know darn well a video speaks exponentially more words than a picture's 1,000, so to speak. As a huge Mini fan I am excited to see this is a viable possibility and am moving defeating the GT40 during the Historic Car Cup Rome Circuit event with a non-Mini Cooper MK1 Mini (i.e. a Mini 1.3) to the front of my current GT40 challenges queue. I thought I was done with new challenges in the Defeating the GT40 Event but the three most recent posts in this forum, including and especially yours, have compelled me to jump back behind the wheel specifically to defeat the Gt40 using an underpowered car that should have zero chance of besting a GT40, especially the Mini 1.3. Again: NICE! This Mini 1.3 win is, in my humble opinion, the coolest win over the GT40 ever.

 

[michael_s_k]

TeaKanji: I forgot to mention that, completely on my own and without using tuning suggestions from you or any other GT 2 enthusiast, I experimented with/tested a variety of different tunings for the (R) Speed 12 and eventually pinned down a set that allowed me to enjoy the kind of control of the (R) Speed 12 I had always desired and wow, what a car! Sure it still needs to be driven correctly and with a certain special precision as well as with respect toward its tolerances, but once I tamed her sweet (originally) amarinth beauty, it was all sunshine on the speedway and I set many best total course times, best lap times, and various other records in my current (extremely, almost embarrassingly long) playthrough. Best of all, the (R) Speed 12 , now a thrill and a joy to operate, has risen in the ranks of my all-time favorite GT 2 vehicles to one of the top five cars usable in unlimited ("free") horsepower (and other) events. In any case, I just wanted to let you know that I did finally gain enough understanding of how she ticks to be able to bring out her best and in truth I have you to thank for starting me down the path to gaining a working and comprehensive understanding of vehicle systems, modification, tuning and driving technique via your post on the I Dusted the GT40, Man forum. You generously shared tuning specifications for defeating the GT40 and it was this, primarily, which inspired me to, as Chrissie Hynde sings in "Boots of Chinese Plastic" (a great song and video featured in the Breaking Bad series) to "...learn, learn, learn...". And I did. So much so that, looking back on my pre-TeaKanji state, I realize what a state of purity I had been in (as in a state of pure but not-so-blissful ignorance, thinking I understood all the basics then recognizing I had a lot to learn). Once you prompted my interest (often bordering on obsession) in truly grokking systems, modification, tuning and vehicle operation I underwent a metamorphosis and continue to evolve and deepen my comprehension today as I continue to revisit every single GT2 vehicle I had previously found "un-drivable" to see if it was/is possible to bring out their best to a point of minor (or even major) transcendence as a racing machine. My current project (obsession) has been in revisiting a series of vehicles I had long ago given up on as pieces of sh-t, namely the entire Dodge and Dodge-Chrysler Viper family of GT2 cars, most especially the Team Oreca Viper GTS-R which IMO is the biggest offender in terms of poor balance, either too much weight or not enough HP and various other undesirable characteristics I was determined to "fix". And just today after many long nights of experimenting, I finally found the "just right" (and very unusual/idiosyncratic) suspension and gearing settings to bring the Team Oreca more on-par with other cars in its class in terms of handling, acceleration/top speed and so on. Btw, other Vipers in GT2 required, in my experience, far less tinkering to reach a more desirable level of total performance. Point being, I did realize my pathetic dream of bringing out the best in the (R) Speed 12 and as always I have to give you mad props for initiating my journey of GT discovery. As my first Judo and jujitsu instructor used to say, "The pump, once primed, generally prefers to draw more water" and wow that was totally the case with your advice re: beating the GT40 because it was the generous spark that ignited a fiery drive towards acquiring a working understanding of vehicle systems, modification, tuning and operation which has been edifying, entertaining and even exciting and at best satisfying in a pathetic driving and video game geek kind of way. So once again, TeaKanji: Thank you!

 

[m2595]

Cool. Have yet to try it with a period-specific vehicle unless you count the 239 HP Mini Cooper 1275S MK1 which, in real life, was not to the best of my knowledge capable of 239 HP so I hesitate to include it as a "period-specific" contender. But I dig your approach and will have to give the Historic Car Cup Rome Circuit GT40 challenge a try using a vehicle manufactured between (around) 1964 through 1975 (as that's the period most of the Historic Car Cup challengers seem to be from (correct me if I'm wrong as any car of great enough significance might be considered "historic" so who knows which cars might show up). In any event, I respect and admire your achieving success vs the GT40 utilizing a vehicle that was manufactured within the (apparent) time period of btwm '64 and '75. I have to say, when it comes to the GT League and similar races where GT2 will allow one to sneak in a totally inappropriate vehicle (i.e. using a USA-manufactured vehicle in the German cup and so on), once I became "serious" about GT 2 I began using only vehicles which matched the event in questions. For example, using a German-made vehicle in the German Nationals or a Japanese or US-made car in the Pacific League event. So: respect! In any event, I appreciate your sharing your Stratos experience including modification info amd look forward to taking the Stratos (a car I have rarely ever driven) out for a spin vs the GT40.

I appreciate the kind words and I agree with you on playing the game seriously, it's what I've done the last few times and the whole experience is much better!
BTW, if you intend on driving the Stratos I suggest you take your time and tune the suspension a bit, because it tends to oversteer suddenly in corners with the original settings. I didn't tune it, because I was just testing if it's good enough against the GT40 and it just happened to be.