I have a G25 and want to upgrade..

  • Thread starter Punknoodle
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Punknoodle_Nick
Hi, I have a strong well build seat set up that I have a G25 mounted to, and I've enjoyed it for years on GT5/6 and rFactor.

I'm building a new PC so I can race in Project Cars, Assetto Corsa etc and want to upgrade my wheel as well, as I feel stepping up to better sims requires better hardware to get the most from them.

Currently my dream set up is a Fanatec CSW with the BMW rim and Clubsport V2 pedals. In Australia, this will cost a whopping $1250. My other option is the Thrustmaster T500RS, which I can get for less than half that, just over $500.

The reasons I want to go for the Fanatec setup are:
- Look and feel of the BMW rim. The better materials and quality of the buttons etc are leaps and bounds above the T500RS.
- Clubsport V2 pedals. The load cell brake with feedback sounds brilliant.

The reasons I want to go for the T500RS are:
- Price. Obviously. I have a family, and while I have a good job that makes it possible to spend the required amount on the Fanatec, it is a lot of money that could go towards more important things. Plus I'm already spending a fair amount building the PC.
- Better reputation for quality. I hear bad things about Fanatec's service and reliability. I can buy the Thrustmaster through a computer parts retailer so I know that if I have a problem I can just put it on their desk and it becomes their problem, whereas the Fanatec has to be purchased online so for any warranty claim I am forced to deal with an online entity that I've heard doesn't respond too well.

If I bought the T500RS and upgraded to Clubsport Pedals by themselves later it would cost around $900 all up, which isn't that far from just getting the Fanatec set up in the first place.

I'm just wondering if there are people out there that have used both and can offer an opinion as to whether the Fanatec is worth it over the Thrustmaster.
 
While I have no experience with Fanatec wheels or pedals, I would say that the T500 pedals are pretty good out of the box. You would need to mod them to make it so much better.

I have a wider brake pedal face and the Basherboards brake mod on mine, and both of them have made a huge difference. There is a load cell mod for it as well.
 
I see, well that's an option I suppose, and the Ferrari wheel for the T500 looks good too - not as nice at the BMW rim though, plus the BMW rim has shift lights etc already mounted to it.
 
T500RS pedals aren't bad at all, I never understood why everyone had such a huge issue with them. As an all-in-one solution, you probably won't do better. It's also very easy and not very expensive to mod, thanks to guys like Derek Speare and John Bodin and Mr Basher. That said, if you're dead set on the CSPv2's, I'm thinking just bite the bullet and go CSW, I've never used it myself, but it just looks awesome and that BMW rim is the business. I love my T500RS tho, and if you do decide to compromise, I don't think you'll be too unhappy.
 
I see, well that's an option I suppose, and the Ferrari wheel for the T500 looks good too - not as nice at the BMW rim though, plus the BMW rim has shift lights etc already mounted to it.

I have the Ferrari Challenge wheel on mine, there is also the Ferrari F1 wheel.
 
T500RS pedals aren't bad at all....

Seriously... I don't understand why people have such a problem with them.. I'm sure they are subpar to Fanatec's but then again, for being out-of-box... they seriously rock.
 
The only irk I have with them is that the brake pedal is on a potentiometer like the gas and clutch pedal. You have to use position memory rather than muscle memory, and the standard brake pedal face is too narrow for my liking for heel-and-toe downshifting.

I left foot brake, so I prefered a wider pedal face.
 
The only irk I have with them is that the brake pedal is on a potentiometer like the gas and clutch pedal. You have to use position memory rather than muscle memory, and the standard brake pedal face is too narrow for my liking for heel-and-toe downshifting.

I left foot brake, so I prefered a wider pedal face.

To each their own I guess.
 
That was the only issue I have with them, I do have a wider pedal face and the Basherboards brake mod for mine, and the brake is so much better now. I can brake much more consistently now.
 
I felt they were great out of the box. I purchased mine recently and it brought with it a brake mod (don't know if it has a name...) and it feels solid and manageable. I'm not saying it is the best.. but it will do for now.
 
I predominantly left foot brake as well, unless I'm using the clutch, when I heel toe. I have a stiffer dual stage spring in my G25 but I would prefer a pressure sensitive brake I think, like a load cell or hydraulic brake. It's a pity I can't try both out anywhere.
 
The CSR Elite has a load cell, the Clubsport V2 has a hydraulic brake.
 
I think at this stage I'm leaning towards the Clubsport setup. I think if I were to go with the T500RS even though it looks like a very good wheel I'd be left wanting because of the better pedals and Alcantara of the CSW.
 
Fanatec calls it a hydraulic brake because it has an adjustable oil damper.
 
FWIW I first want to note that the following is my personally preferred setup.
- T500
- CSPv2 via Basherboards CPX
- CSS SQ (doesn't work on PS3 with the T500)

First let me say that the T500 pedals definitely are not bad, but the reason I dislike them is the throw of the pedals. Before the CPX came out I used the T500 with its own pedals for a long time, while simply shelving the CSPv1 and CSPv2 that I own.

The T500 itself is a more reliable wheel in my opinion than the CSW (of which I own 2). The FFB motor is just a lot stronger even though it does cog a little. Still it is more reliable and more of a pleasure to use, and for a FFB wheel everything depends on the motor that's at its core.
The only thing I changed to the T500 is that I put in a Noctua 60x60x25mm fan. Which has less noise, uses less power, has more airflow, more air pressure and so on.
The stock fan is basically the only downside to the T500, but is easily replaced. I or the community here can help you with some instructions for that.
Furthermore the T500 is more easy to mod in terms of putting a nice aftermarket real wheel on it. Or maybe something nice from Sam Maxwell in the future.

Also if you play GT5/6 than the FFB with the T500 will be much better than with the CSW. The CSW basically emulates the G27 and feels just like your G25 now but with simply a bit more torque. PD on the other hand did actually do some extra work on the T500 FFB in GT6, which is a big improvement over whatever the G25 or CSW can give you in my opinion.

So yeah, personally I would go with the T500 if it was up to me. Maybe instead of going for the CSPv2 pedals you could get a loadcell from John Bodin instead for the T500.
Than grab a CSS SQ or TH8 a bit later.
Besides if you want to go for looks... nothing beats a real steering wheel. After all the BMW rim is just a downsized version of the real thing anyways.

I hope this gives you enough of an idea for now. If you have any questions... I'll keep a bit of an eye on the thread. ;)
 
After all the BMW rim is just a downsized version of the real thing anyways.

Well, Fanatec say that it is the exact same size with same materials as the real thing. Maybe of course you race with those cars in real life so that you can basically say that Fanatec is lying and selling actually downsized versions.
 
Well, Fanatec say that it is the exact same size with same materials as the real thing. Maybe of course you race with those cars in real life so that you can basically say that Fanatec is lying and selling actually downsized versions.

I thought it was slightly smaller (340mm or 330mm real, 320mm Fanatec), could be wrong. Never the less... Momo rim vs BMW rim... I'd prefer a Momo.

Besides, you can get more info from an aftermarket SLI display anyways.
 
When you said it does cog a little? meaning while you are turning wheel or just when you reach at the end stop?

With cog I mean you can feel the magnets in the motor pass the magnetic fields. Giving a bit of a notch like feel. This does not hinder the feedback though, cause it can only be very faintly felt while driving. You won't even notice it in the heat of battle.
 
Besides, you can get more info from an aftermarket SLI display anyways.

For sure, but I wonder how much do people actually use them. I'm watching the road when racing not looking around the room looking for information. What may interest me, I'll put on the screen, so I don't need to turn my eye away much.
 
Care to clarify that? TIA!

The throw is pretty short of the T500 pedals, shorter than my pedals in my real car (Lancia Delta HPE). The CSP v1 and v2 have a much longer throw. At max 1.5x the length of the T500 pedals. Maybe a bit too much for my liking, but I still want to tone this down by putting a spacer, a wooden rod of the right diameter which I can cut to the desired length, in behind the metal rod of the gas pedal.

Anyways... for me the extra throw gives me more room to be able to more accurately modulate the gas. With the only downside being that it takes more time for your foot to travel the full distance of the throw. Than again I found that it was most often a positive than negative effect, because you'll apply gas less abruptly than with the T500's throw length; of course resulting in a less nervous car.

This is just my experience with my driving style though.
The reason I want to shorten the throw a little is because of the way my foot is stretched in my rig at full throttle. It causes my foot to get a little sore, especially in slow games like Euro Truck Simulator 2 where you're on full throttle all the time (yes, there is cruise control but I hate cruise control myself... in real life too).


For sure, but I wonder how much do people actually use them. I'm watching the road when racing not looking around the room looking for information. What may interest me, I'll put on the screen, so I don't need to turn my eye away much.

Well, it depends on how your cockpit is setup. In a Formula 1 car (IRL of course) you really barely look over the wheel, so looking at your lap times and deltas is easy as it is in your line of sight. Just like your speedo and so on is in your road car.

So if you have your triple screens setup with the correct FOV, and the wheel just below the bezel, often the dash isn't visible. So to replace your instruments you use an SLI, and some even make a nice dash with analog gauges.

The whole matter does get nullified once you go with VR like the Oculus Rift, as you can just look down in your virtual cockpit and take note of the gauges. Or maybe its simply in your line of sight already depending on how you setup your seat position.

It all basically depends on what way you wish to go. Some swear by triples and their expensive cockpit. Others have a small amount of space in the room and just like to keep a minimal setup. A simple rig with wheel and oculus rift would than be ideal.
 
FWIW I first want to note that the following is my personally preferred setup.
- T500
- CSPv2 via Basherboards CPX
- CSS SQ (doesn't work on PS3 with the T500)

First let me say that the T500 pedals definitely are not bad, but the reason I dislike them is the throw of the pedals. Before the CPX came out I used the T500 with its own pedals for a long time, while simply shelving the CSPv1 and CSPv2 that I own.

The T500 itself is a more reliable wheel in my opinion than the CSW (of which I own 2). The FFB motor is just a lot stronger even though it does cog a little. Still it is more reliable and more of a pleasure to use, and for a FFB wheel everything depends on the motor that's at its core.
The only thing I changed to the T500 is that I put in a Noctua 60x60x25mm fan. Which has less noise, uses less power, has more airflow, more air pressure and so on.
The stock fan is basically the only downside to the T500, but is easily replaced. I or the community here can help you with some instructions for that.
Furthermore the T500 is more easy to mod in terms of putting a nice aftermarket real wheel on it. Or maybe something nice from Sam Maxwell in the future.

Also if you play GT5/6 than the FFB with the T500 will be much better than with the CSW. The CSW basically emulates the G27 and feels just like your G25 now but with simply a bit more torque. PD on the other hand did actually do some extra work on the T500 FFB in GT6, which is a big improvement over whatever the G25 or CSW can give you in my opinion.

So yeah, personally I would go with the T500 if it was up to me. Maybe instead of going for the CSPv2 pedals you could get a loadcell from John Bodin instead for the T500.
Than grab a CSS SQ or TH8 a bit later.
Besides if you want to go for looks... nothing beats a real steering wheel. After all the BMW rim is just a downsized version of the real thing anyways.

I hope this gives you enough of an idea for now. If you have any questions... I'll keep a bit of an eye on the thread. ;)
Don't you miss the buttons on the wheel when using a momo wheel?
 
Don't you miss the buttons on the wheel when using a momo wheel?

I think he would say in this case that this is what button boxes are built for. For me, it is a lot better to have buttons on the wheel. Just like he would better like generic wheel to branded wheel, buttons are a matter of preferences too.
 
Don't you miss the buttons on the wheel when using a momo wheel?

I do sometimes. However, do consider that you only need the basics to actually drive a car (wheel, pedals and maybe a shifter for realism). Plus I still have 2 buttons on the T500 base that I could use for say... the brake bias up/down.

Also you can actually use 2 shift register chips and a PS/2 plug to hook up a button plate that you attach between the wheel and the wheel-hub (from Derek Speare Designs). You could have as much buttons as you have on the normal GT rim.
A fellow countryman of yours here on the forum has already done this.

See this video as example...

 
Also you can actually use 2 shift register chips and a PS/2 plug to hook up a button plate that you attach between the wheel and the wheel-hub (from Derek Speare Designs). You could have as much buttons as you have on the normal GT rim.

Well, I think that if someone should go this way, your earlier saying:
Furthermore the T500 is more easy to mod in terms of putting a nice aftermarket real wheel on it.
is not valid any more. If you are going to mess with the buttons it, would not be any easier than putting aftermarket wheel on a CSW too. There are loads of guys who have done that with their CSW/CSR-E.
 
Well, I think that if someone should go this way, your earlier saying:

is not valid any more. If you are going to mess with the buttons it, would not be any easier than putting aftermarket wheel on a CSW too. There are loads of guys who have done that with their CSW/CSR-E.

They had to buy a whole Formula rim for that though and strip that to use the board inside plus QR hub, because of the protection that switches off the FFB when the rim is detached.
Thus making it more expensive than buying a bit of wire, a PS/2 connector, board and those two chips... for 10-15 bucks max? Plus 40 USD for an T500 hub from Derek. Whereas the Formula Rim costs 240 AUD ex shipping, a much more expensive modding pricetag.

Plus yeah, I find that the T500 is easier to work with than tearing up a CSW rim and making that fit somehow.
 
Thanks for the info, so what would be your main reason for changing your stance, as in your review you state you would chose the CSW over the T500?
 
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