I have a G25 and want to upgrade..

  • Thread starter Punknoodle
  • 41 comments
  • 2,327 views
Thanks for the info, so what would be your main reason for changing your stance, as in your review you state you would chose the CSW over the T500?

Simple, reliability mostly. Secondly belts vs slippage.

My T500 still works fine after 3 years. Where as my beta wheel burned out its motors (or at least one) after almost a year. The retail base had about the same strength/torque as the used T500 when I got it as replacement, but I noticed that even without the motors actually burning out the motors in the Fanatec actually slowly started to degrade and lose torque over time. Especially noticeable at the speed at which it calibrates itself during the startup routine.

So the CSW still works fine, but it doesn't have the speed and power it once had anymore. So since I've been testing the Physics in Project CARS a lot I preferred to stick with that which had the most reliable performance through the years of me having these wheels.

There is one other reason why I prefer the T500 over the CSW. That's the type of belts used.
After having tried both the CSW with its V-groove belts and the T500 with the toothed belts.
I found that the CSW had micro-slip which is something those belts were designed to do in cars, this to prevent you from losing your auxiliary devices attached to the engine. Cause if a toothed belt slips in a car, the teeth will be destroyed vary rapidly.
Why micro-slip is bad in FFB is that every slip of the belt? Well, micro-slip causes effects coming from the game and being executed by the FFB motor to not reach the steering wheel... and thus not you, the driver.
Also it hinders game Physics as well. This because the Physics in the game sends a signal that brings the steering wheel to the so called 'center of steering' of the virtual tyres (i.e. the direction the tyres want to point at naturally). However, if there is a delay because of slip or the FFB motor not being able to overcome drag (e.g. you holding the wheel tightly in place)... than basically there is a delay between what happens virtually (at Physics level) and what actually is being executed by the wheel. This because the FFB motor wasn't able to turn the position sensor into the desired position.

So those two are my main reasons for using the T500. A choice made after a lot of usage and actually finding out how stuff works by simple experience and a lot of swapping wheels.
Thus my conclusion is that even though a V-belt is smoother when turning the wheel, the toothed belt is better in my opinion.


ps. To be fair and I think I have to admit that I was too much of a rookie in terms of knowledge on how things like these work when I wrote the review. So even though I know this stuff now, I didn't back than. Than again, I couldn't have foreseen the reliability issues with the motors at the time.
 
That's a good explanation, thanks. Doesn't make my decision any easier. I like the design of the CSW and the way the clutch pedal works and the hydraulic damper on the brake and as I have a family and racing time is limited I wouldn't be putting the motors through high use so they may last longer. Or I could save money, get the T500RS and mod it in the future with he likes of a load cell brake and a different rim.

Might go with the T500..
 
If you do go for the T500RS, you would then be admitted into..

0354.jpg


:bowdown: The glorious T500 RS master race! :bowdown:
 
Last edited:
That's a good explanation, thanks. Doesn't make my decision any easier. I like the design of the CSW and the way the clutch pedal works and the hydraulic damper on the brake and as I have a family and racing time is limited I wouldn't be putting the motors through high use so they may last longer. Or I could save money, get the T500RS and mod it in the future with he likes of a load cell brake and a different rim.

Might go with the T500..

Like I said... I have this combination with the CSPv2 on the T500.
With the below setup I just need to hook up 3 cables when I move my rSeat back into position again. The power cable from the Thrustmaster power-brick to the wheel, the power adapter for the usb hub and the USB cable coming from the USB hub in either the PS3 or the PC.

NB. if you use a USB hub, make sure it's a powered one, as the devices hooked up like to suck some electrical juice. Else you run into issues with the loadcell acting up for example. ;)
my setup.png
 
Last edited:
@Punknoodle I like to play the percentage game, but I don't think that Fanatec would like me doing that.

CSW - Approximately 1.5% of retail price goes to motors. No pedals included.
T500rs - Approximately 15% of retail price goes to motors. Pedals included.
I have an Ecci 7000 wheel. Very expensive wheel, but still around 10% goes to the motor.

The CSW must be the worst performing wheel in history in this game.
 
@Punknoodle I like to play the percentage game, but I don't think that Fanatec would like me doing that.

CSW - Approximately 1.5% of retail price goes to motors. No pedals included.
T500rs - Approximately 15% of retail price goes to motors. Pedals included.
I have an Ecci 7000 wheel. Very expensive wheel, but still around 10% goes to the motor.

The CSW must be the worst performing wheel in history in this game.

If I may be so rude to ask... how did you get to these numbers?
Not that it's not true. Buhler motors (T500) are a lot more expensive than the Mabuchi motors (CSW). I don't know what's in the ECCI though? Maybe you can get us all a brand name and part number as I am sure someone will be interested in it in the future somehow.
 
I just searched as if I wanted to buy the motors:

T500rs motor - Buhler 1.13.044.236
Costs around $100 to buy

ECCI motor - Ametek 14206S011
Costs around $260 to buy

CSW motors - Mabuchi RS-555PH-22130
Hard to find, but equivalent motors cost 2 or 3 dollars. The cheapness is well documented.
 
@Punknoodle I like to play the percentage game, but I don't think that Fanatec would like me doing that.

CSW - Approximately 1.5% of retail price goes to motors. No pedals included.
T500rs - Approximately 15% of retail price goes to motors. Pedals included.
I have an Ecci 7000 wheel. Very expensive wheel, but still around 10% goes to the motor.

The CSW must be the worst performing wheel in history in this game.
You sir, just made my choice much easier. Thanks.
 
It's an eye-opener, and maybe even a jaw-dropper, for sure.

But yeah, get the heart of the beast right, and sort out rim options etc. from there.
 
I just searched as if I wanted to buy the motors:

T500rs motor - Buhler 1.13.044.236
Costs around $100 to buy

ECCI motor - Ametek 14206S011
Costs around $260 to buy

CSW motors - Mabuchi RS-555PH-22130
Hard to find, but equivalent motors cost 2 or 3 dollars. The cheapness is well documented.
So basically, if motor died, wheel will be unusable?
 
Back