I Struck Oil - A Danoff Story

[kikie]

Ai, ai, ai.

 

[CodeRedR51]

Your state government is compromised, and that's ignoring the long term effects of fracking, many areas have experienced a sharp increase in minor earthquakes after it.

This would never pass here, not in a million years.

I am from Western Colorado. This is the scene there and I hate it. Looks bad from the air, much worse on the ground.

 

[Danoff]

I am from Western Colorado. This is the scene there and I hate it. Looks bad from the air, much worse on the ground.

View attachment 827240

I'm not entirely sure what you're trying to draw attention to here. Lack of trees? Mining?

 

[CodeRedR51]

I'm not entirely sure what you're trying to draw attention to here. Lack of trees? Mining?

All of the drilling spots.

 

[Danoff]

All of the drilling spots.

Are those the little white dots?

 

[Eunos_Cosmo]

All of the drilling spots.

Oh man. Ever flown over the western half of Texas? It's basically nothing but this from I35 to New Mexico.

 

[CodeRedR51]

Are those the little white dots?

Yes

Oh man. Ever flown over the western half of Texas? It's basically nothing but this from I35 to New Mexico.

Yep, seen that a couple times while flying into Dallas from Phoenix.

I get that it's a necessary evil, but it's far less distracting in the plains of Texas than in the scenic areas of Colorado.

 

[Rallywagon]

Its like that all over the country. Even Michigan is plagued by pumps. Can find one every few hundred feet on the snowmobile trails around the northern parts of the LP and all around the UP.

 

[Keef]

Colorado is such a weird state.

They've got a ton of open-air land where you can camp and part and do what you want...but it's public.

In Colorado you're allowed to carrying champered weapons openly in your car...but in *Denver* AR-15s are illegal.

The state and its people are pushing environmental conservation and renewable energy...but also drilling new oil wells under neighborhoods.

I don't know, I don't get it. I'm really interesting in visiting or living there one day but the extreme contrast between overpriced dense cities and vast empty land, and the politics of the cities vs the state, don't make sense to me. Ohio seems way more "average" in comparison wit a lot fewer surprises. No, we can't go smoke weed in the mountains, but we also can't spend $2000 a month to rent a 1,000 square foot house because that literally doesn't exist. Nobody in the non-Appalachian areas of Ohio are getting screwed by fossil fuels but the farmers in the northwest are actually making lease money off windmills.

EDIT: It's really unfortunate that US companies and governments don't invest more in renewable energies. It's all a hard sell because it's not quite feasible economically.

The more I fly over these cities the more wasted space I see. You realize how many blindingly bright white warehouse roofs there are in cities? It's extremely rare to see one with skylights to provide natural light during the day, and it's even rarer to see one covered with solar panels. I'm flying over Chicago currently and I'm happy that there are several large apartment buildings and a couple warehouses in particular with green roofs. That's a step in the right direction. But I see literally hundreds of square miles of flat roof that could be used to scavenge power. I see a lot of space to put solar panels or wind mills. I see so much space on top of warehouses that they could virtually power themselves and not even be connected to the grid. I see so much inefficiency that if even part of it were utilized the GSE-scam of public utilities would cease to exist. I mean hell, even if solar panels are too expensive then grass isn't hard to grow on a gigantic flat roof, and it would also filter the rain water that flows out into the street. You know how many wealthy people in a city like this would rather subsidize their energy bills by installing discounted solar panels on their roof than drive an S-class to work every day? Maybe settle for an E, and use that $20,000 for solar panels and a power bank, and never have to pay the city for power again. That is, unless your city or state has outlawed contributing to the grid, and/or charges you for it because they're scared of becoming irrelevant. Government seems to have gone out of its way to make renewable energy so unfeasible that it doesn't even make sense to rich people who believe a rapidly depreciating Mercedes is a good investment.

I feel like all these fossil fuel companies, the companies that rely on them like the automotive industry, and governments terrified of change, are scrambling to grab as many quick bucks as they can because they see the writing on the wall. Fossil fuel is dying and these people are prepared to rewrite any law to take advantage of any piece of land, now that the whole energy business is in the limelight. Fifty years ago nobody cared but these days virtually everyone is conscious of it. Gotta grab that cash before solar panels and windmills actually are economically feasible.

My survey company partnered with a British firm to do environmental surveys of the Atlantic coast of the US. We flew planes at low altitude 250 miles straight offshore and back again to do gather rough wildlife and environmental data. We've flown several higher-detail missions up to 50 miles offshore. Why? The virtually endless energy potential of the ocean. They're conducting real surveys right now in order to plan offshore energy harvesting, whether it be windmills or those wavey floaty things I saw as a kid on the Discovery Channel. It's going to happen, but it's a slow process.

If the US really gave a rat's ass about defeating Saudi Arabia and Russia in the energy game, they would crush the value of oil by advancing electrical energy technology and renewable sources. But they don't actually care, they're just want the money. It's hardly even about control anymore, it's just about the money.

 

[Liquid]

If the US really gave a rat's ass about defeating Saudi Arabia and Russia in the energy game, they would crush the value of oil by advancing electrical energy technology and renewable sources. But they don't actually care, they're just want the money. It's hardly even about control anymore, it's just about the money.

A very good point and you can definitely throw China's hat into that race too. It applies somewhat to other industries and resources e.g. why don't tobacco companies invest in and lobby for federally legal weed to continue and even enhance their revenue streams? Why don't "energy" companies get several steps ahead of the game and invest in more renewable and viable sources to maintain their longer-term viability and create "new, dynamic markets to maximise their capitalisation and profits"?

/managerspeak

So far I have been paid $1800 (net). I expect that to be the end of it but I'll let you know when the gold pool gets installed.

Better than a kick in the teeth.

I hope $1,800 covers any potential water purchases you might have to do in the event of combustible taps and/or red-purple water.

 

[Danoff]

If the US really gave a rat's ass about defeating Saudi Arabia and Russia in the energy game, they would crush the value of oil by advancing electrical energy technology and renewable sources. But they don't actually care, they're just want the money. It's hardly even about control anymore, it's just about the money.

A very good point and you can definitely throw China's hat into that race too. It applies somewhat to other industries and resources e.g. why don't tobacco companies invest in and lobby for federally legal weed to continue and even enhance their revenue streams? Why don't "energy" companies get several steps ahead of the game and invest in more renewable and viable sources to maintain their longer-term viability and create "new, dynamic markets to maximise their capitalisation and profits"?

/managerspeak

It's not that the US has a single mind here. Some people in the US are creating the largest renewable resource platforms in the world. The 5 largest wind farms in the world are in the US.

It's just that the US also has companies that are investing in new technologies to access very valuable oil, and then once they develop those technologies and get over the $ hump (which they have) suddenly there's a boom of available resources that make sense to go after, and that's the shale oil boom. It's especially valuable when the owner has no choice but to sell it at a bargain basement rate.

Better than a kick in the teeth.

I hope $1,800 covers any potential water purchases you might have to do in the event of combustible taps and/or red-purple water.

I don't get my water from a well, so that's not of particular concern even if the water table got contaminated by a broken concrete sleeve. The city water system tests and re-tests and re-tests. And the extraction company also is responsible for testing and re-testing. But I'd be far more concerned if I were tapping a well, especially if my water source was not one that was also shared by a city.

 

[Eunos_Cosmo]

The more I fly over these cities the more wasted space I see. You realize how many blindingly bright white warehouse roofs there are in cities? It's extremely rare to see one with skylights to provide natural light during the day, and it's even rarer to see one covered with solar panels.

For a warehouse, especially, a white roof is much more efficient than skylights. Heat gain through glass is huge. White roofs tend to have the highest solar-reflection values. Heating and cooling are far more energy intensive than lighting, and natural light isn't really priority in a warehouse type building anyways.

I'm flying over Chicago currently and I'm happy that there are several large apartment buildings and a couple warehouses in particular with green roofs. That's a step in the right direction. But I see literally hundreds of square miles of flat roof that could be used to scavenge power. I see a lot of space to put solar panels or wind mills. I see so much space on top of warehouses that they could virtually power themselves and not even be connected to the grid. I see so much inefficiency that if even part of it were utilized the GSE-scam of public utilities would cease to exist. I mean hell, even if solar panels are too expensive then grass isn't hard to grow on a gigantic flat roof, and it would also filter the rain water that flows out into the street.

Green roofs are not simple, at all. They require fairly deep soil (depending on the plant species) which means a complex roof assembly and more robust structure. Not to mention a lot of maintenance.

Solar panels are great, but expensive. I dream of a future where every single building produces its own energy, but with natural gas extraction killing any incentive to do that, it's a hard sell. Incidentally, I'm working on a project that uses solar heat exchangers to provide all of the hot water for the building's 400+ hotel rooms. Even though this will drastically reduce the building's use of natural gas, it's actually a less effective way to earn environmental (LEED) credits or save money, entirely because natural gas is so cheap. (LEED prioritizes energy cost savings rather than energy unit savings).

You know how many wealthy people in a city like this would rather subsidize their energy bills by installing discounted solar panels on their roof than drive an S-class to work every day? Maybe settle for an E, and use that $20,000 for solar panels and a power bank, and never have to pay the city for power again. That is, unless your city or state has outlawed contributing to the grid, and/or charges you for it because they're scared of becoming irrelevant. Government seems to have gone out of its way to make renewable energy so unfeasible that it doesn't even make sense to rich people who believe a rapidly depreciating Mercedes is a good investment.

I feel like all these fossil fuel companies, the companies that rely on them like the automotive industry, and governments terrified of change, are scrambling to grab as many quick bucks as they can because they see the writing on the wall. Fossil fuel is dying and these people are prepared to rewrite any law to take advantage of any piece of land, now that the whole energy business is in the limelight. Fifty years ago nobody cared but these days virtually everyone is conscious of it. Gotta grab that cash before solar panels and windmills actually are economically feasible.

My survey company partnered with a British firm to do environmental surveys of the Atlantic coast of the US. We flew planes at low altitude 250 miles straight offshore and back again to do gather rough wildlife and environmental data. We've flown several higher-detail missions up to 50 miles offshore. Why? The virtually endless energy potential of the ocean. They're conducting real surveys right now in order to plan offshore energy harvesting, whether it be windmills or those wavey floaty things I saw as a kid on the Discovery Channel. It's going to happen, but it's a slow process.

If the US really gave a rat's ass about defeating Saudi Arabia and Russia in the energy game, they would crush the value of oil by advancing electrical energy technology and renewable sources. But they don't actually care, they're just want the money. It's hardly even about control anymore, it's just about the money.

"Renewable" and "Sustainable" have become terms anathema to the political right for.....I honestly don't even know why. They are perceived as liberal constructs I guess and so they are for "p****s", as my HS friends would probably say. I'm with you though. There is no good reason we can't move towards a future with zero emissions through a combination of Wind, Solar, Nuclear, and Ocean-based energy production methods. Burning oil just seems so.....dumb.

Anyone flown over or driven by Ivanpah in Nevada? First time I drove by, it took my breath away...the scale and power of it. I know it roasts birds and probably isn't cheap to maintain, but damn does it look cool.

Nevada receives so much solar energy that you could probably power a sizeable amount of the American west by building up the infrastructure on the public land there.

 

[Danoff]

For a warehouse, especially, a white roof is much more efficient than skylights. Heat gain through glass is huge. White roofs tend to have the highest solar-reflection values. Heating and cooling are far more energy intensive than lighting, and natural light isn't really priority in a warehouse type building anyways.



Green roofs are not simple, at all. They require fairly deep soil (depending on the plant species) which means a complex roof assembly and more robust structure. Not to mention a lot of maintenance.

Solar panels are great, but expensive. I dream of a future where every single building produces its own energy, but with natural gas extraction killing any incentive to do that, it's a hard sell. Incidentally, I'm working on a project that uses solar heat exchangers to provide all of the hot water for the building's 400+ hotel rooms. Even though this will drastically reduce the building's use of natural gas, it's actually a less effective way to earn environmental (LEED) credits or save money, entirely because natural gas is so cheap. (LEED prioritizes energy cost savings rather than energy unit savings).




"Renewable" and "Sustainable" have become terms anathema to the political right for.....I honestly don't even know why. They are perceived as liberal constructs I guess and so they are for "p****s", as my HS friends would probably say. I'm with you though. There is no good reason we can't move towards a future with zero emissions through a combination of Wind, Solar, Nuclear, and Ocean-based energy production methods. Burning oil just seems so.....dumb.

Anyone flown over or driven by Ivanpah in Nevada? First time I drove by, it took my breath away...the scale and power of it. I know it roasts birds and probably isn't cheap to maintain, but damn does it look cool.

Nevada receives so much solar energy that you could probably power a sizeable amount of the American west by building up the infrastructure on the public land there.

Yup, I've seen that. I was wondering what it was (I figured it was solar thermal but without having the name I couldn't look it up, at least until you just told me). Very cool.

 

[Keef]

It's just that the US also has companies that are investing in new technologies to access very valuable oil, and then once they develop those technologies and get over the $ hump (which they have) suddenly there's a boom of available resources that make sense to go after, and that's the shale oil boom. It's especially valuable when the owner has no choice but to sell it at a bargain basement rate.

I get why they do it and I'm not blaming the companies for not innovating. But governments at all levels seem to incentivize fossil fuels over anything else. There are cities and states that ban or charge you for contributing to the grid, meanwhile energy companies get all the tax breaks they could ask for. Louisiana is probably the worst example and that state is killing itself because of it. Either incentivize everything equally or get rid of all of them, those should be the only options. Your situation is a prime example - does your city give you a break to install solar panels or something? Most don't.

Solar panels are great, but expensive. I dream of a future where every single building produces its own energy, but with natural gas extraction killing any incentive to do that, it's a hard sell. Incidentally, I'm working on a project that uses solar heat exchangers to provide all of the hot water for the building's 400+ hotel rooms. Even though this will drastically reduce the building's use of natural gas, it's actually a less effective way to earn environmental (LEED) credits or save money, entirely because natural gas is so cheap. (LEED prioritizes energy cost savings rather than energy unit savings).

These credits are a problem and I feel like they're designed on purpose to sound like the politicians are caring, but actually even with the incentives the whole idea still isn't feasible. But they tried, and that's how they get reelected.

 

[Rallywagon]

I get why they do it and I'm not blaming the companies for not innovating. But governments at all levels seem to incentivize fossil fuels over anything else. There are cities and states that ban or charge you for contributing to the grid, meanwhile energy companies get all the tax breaks they could ask for. Louisiana is probably the worst example and that state is killing itself because of it. Either incentivize everything equally or get rid of all of them, those should be the only options. Your situation is a prime example - does your city give you a break to install solar panels or something? Most don't.


These credits are a problem and I feel like they're designed on purpose to sound like the politicians are caring, but actually even with the incentives the whole idea still isn't feasible. But they tried, and that's how they get reelected.

Not to hit on the old cliche, but follow the money. The reason our Gov incentives fossil fuels over renewable energy is because the fossil fuel industry pays politicians a ridiculous sum to do it.

 

[Danoff]

Your situation is a prime example - does your city give you a break to install solar panels or something? Most don't.

Certainly the state does not appear to have laws in place which are intended specifically to make it easy for solar farms to acquire land rights, even over city protests, and overrule the complaints of locals who feel that they are adversely impacted. Oil and natural gas extraction is operating with a layer of impunity that I imagine alternative energy could only dream of.

 

[Eunos_Cosmo]

These credits are a problem and I feel like they're designed on purpose to sound like the politicians are caring, but actually even with the incentives the whole idea still isn't feasible. But they tried, and that's how they get reelected.

From my experience, carrots work better than sticks and local authority trumps state or federal in terms of guiding construction policy. More cities should offer expedited approvals and tax incentives to projects that pledge sustainable construction. Most developers will chase the fastest approval over anything else. And places like Houston should implement some more rigorous planning and zoning so reasonably sustainable buildings actually get built.

It is a constant frustration, for me, to see the glacial pace of change in the construction industry. It's possible (in certain climates) to build office buildings with no mechanical systems at all. It's reasonable to build smart. We really need to break the constraints of modernism and its profound thirst for oil.

Edit: I've strayed from the topic.

 

[Danoff]

I gotta rant about this.

Denver has a stupid beltway that goes 270 degrees but lacks the final 90 degrees. It sends a crapton of traffic through downtown and onto surface streets and it's absolutely ridiculous. It leads to pollution, lost productivity, and probably even fatal traffic accidents. The solution, of course, is to finish the final 90 degrees and complete the beltway. And guess what? The land that it would need to go through is open empty space! What could be better.

Well it could have been something other than a nuclear weapons plant that has left the land around it contaminated and off-limits. That's why it's open space. It's beautiful over there... but also somewhat untouchable.

The proposed completion of the beltway, at least in its current form, is called the Jefferson Parkway. And it has to go through/around/near-to the rocky flats where the elevated levels of plutonium are. At this point you're probably asking yourself... what on earth does this have to do with oil? I'm getting to that. Hang tight.

So Broomfield just pulled out of the Jefferson parkway construction effort last night, and has left the project with a big problem. They cite "health and safety" as the reason, because of soil samples with elevated plutonium. Perhaps that was the right call, but somehow I doubt it. I have to think that there is some kind of way to work around this, instead of doing the easy thing - which is to just pull out of the project and declare it a no-go.

As it turns out, the Broomfield city council was voted in in part as a protest against oil fracking, which was posing a danger to health and safety. In response to absolutely ridiculous oil drilling next to schools, neighborhoods, and playgrounds, Broomfield voted on a bunch of protectionist environmentalists to help fight the oil companies. And of course they were unable to because CO law is extreeeeeemely friendly to oil companies. But what they were able to do, is scuttle a project that had the ability to dramatically improve all of Denver.

I know, I know. Plutonium. It's scary. But seriously there has to be a solution to this problem. The answer is not to keep clogging the city.

Thanks for pushing the issue and being absolute jerks oil companies, you got the freeway, that everyone wanted, shut!

 

[Danoff]

Time for an update!

I'm still getting oil checks 6 years later. Total payout from the oil find was $2k upfront, with monthly checks starting at around $400 and now lagging into the $150 range. So I'm estimating somewhere around $16k in total oil revenue thus far, pre-tax.

It's honestly more than I expected to see from this drilling effort. Was it worth it? Probably not. If I could have stopped it at the time knowing what I know now about how much revenue it would generate for me, I'd still probably say no.

 

[Liquid]

@Danoff In your initial posts in 2019, you expected a one-off payment of around $1,000.

From where have the other, continuous payments happened or why?

 

[Danoff]

@Danoff In your initial posts in 2019, you expected a one-off payment of around $1,000.

From where have the other, continuous payments happened or why?

Well it turned out to be closer to $2k when the dust settled. It was also not at all clear what price they would sell the oil for, and what expenses they would remove from any ongoing payments. But the breakdown resulted in about $400 monthly for a while. I gather the price has dropped or the oil being produced is less, because at this point it's more like $150/month. I expect it'll end soon.