Idiot gets tasered at John Kerry forum

  • Thread starter Azuremen
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At the risk of being Capt. Obvious...
Having been "blasted" at the end of the line on the hand-crank generator I have a silly question.
If you have a dogpile on a guy, and he gets tasered, doesn't everyone that has a point of contact with him get a jolt as well?
I know if you touch someone getting defibrillated you get a jolt too...
 
Whats new, cops really are getting out of hand. They keep on taking advantage of thier powers. Especially on intersections where you can't turn left or right during the day. They only put one sign that is so high up you can't even see it when inside a car, then they wait for you to make the turn. This is NYC, we should be allowed to turn if it is not a one way street, only buses can turn, which confuses everybody. And then you get a ticket. You get a ticket for turning, I rest my case.
 
Wolfe
</thread>

I'm laughing my ass off at this attention-hungry idiot. This clip made my day. :)
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You weren't the only one who was laughing their ass off. There's nothin' like a good laugh to wake you up in the morning.
 
racerx510
Whats new, cops really are getting out of hand. They keep on taking advantage of thier powers. Especially on intersections where you can't turn left or right during the day. They only put one sign that is so high up you can't even see it when inside a car, then they wait for you to make the turn. This is NYC, we should be allowed to turn if it is not a one way street, only buses can turn, which confuses everybody. And then you get a ticket. You get a ticket for turning, I rest my case.
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That's a law problem, not an enforcement problem.
 
Gil
At the risk of being Capt. Obvious...
Having been "blasted" at the end of the line on the hand-crank generator I have a silly question.
If you have a dogpile on a guy, and he gets tasered, doesn't everyone that has a point of contact with him get a jolt as well?
I know if you touch someone getting defibrillated you get a jolt too...
Click to expand...
Power is the answer. A stun gun/taser can run on a 9 volt battery. Even then the volts are not what is important for this, it is the Joules. A taser has roughly 4/10 of a Joule and then does quick pulses. Enough to hurt and maybe make the directly contacted muscles contract, causing eth person tased to go limp long enough to be put under control. There isn't much room for stray current, but I am sure some can escape. I'm sure at worst it feels like a tingle.

Defibrillators on the other hand are mighty powerful machines. The job of a defibrillator is to stop the heart (not jump start a flatline, despite what TV shows you), so something more powerful than what a taser can do must be administered. A defibrillator will deliver one massive jolt of hundreds of Joules. This leaves plenty of room for stray current and no one who has a normal heart rhythm wants their heart stopped.

Now in the case of getting a shock from a generator, there is a lot of power in that and it was not quick burtss, but a constant current. anyone who then touches you will receive plenty of this current as well.
 
LdS
I think you are confusing with the Ampere. Joules are the work necessarily to fulfill the force (watt).
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Not confused, just that I'm unsure how much amps would cause a stray charge, where as I know Joules are the measure of the work used to push the current, which to me sounds like would be a cause of stray current.

When reading into it the Joules are what are being adjusted on the defibrillators and taser information went on about the small amount of Joules as well. That was the only real difference I could find between the two that would explain stray current to me.


Or I may just not understand all this electrical stuff, which is why I am not an electrician. Either way, whichever one matters, the amount in a defibrillator is enough to kill a secondary person (because we are stopping hearts here) whereas the amount in a taser is barely enough to leave the body part in direct contact.
 
I never seen one of those (that you call) tasers. I think that they are not used here (Portugal), but normally what is regulated is the intensity of the current (in other words, Amperes). The only thing (speaking of electricity) that can really kill is the ampere. That means that even if you have a current of 500 Volts, but have a phew amperes, you will not die. I am not going to talk about Joules, because it is another subject.

Either way, and back to topic, and this time, expressing my opinion about the event, I think that the cops did very wrong in &#8220;tore&#8221; the guy up, it was unnecessarily. I can&#8217;t, although, condemn the guy. He was in his right to do those questions. I think I&#8217;ve heard that the United States were a free democratic country, and what I see? This? It leaves a bad impression.
And John Kerry admitted he was about to answer the questions, when he was taken to custody:

Originally Admited by U.S. Sen. John Kerry
In 37 years of public appearances, through wars, protests and highly emotional events, I have never had a dialogue end this way. I believe I could have handled the situation without interruption, but again I do not know what warnings or other exchanges transpired between the young man and the police prior to his barging to the front of the line and their intervention. I asked the police to allow me to answer the question and was in the process of answering him when he was taken into custody. I was not aware that a taser was used until after I left the building. I hope that neither the student nor any of the police were injured. I regret enormously that a good healthy discussion was interrupted
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- font: http://www.miamiherald.com/1060/story/241914.html

And now I see, people here saying that the police did the right thing? I can&#8217;t understand, I really can&#8217;t understand. It is beyond me.
 
LdS
And John Kerry admitted he was about to answer the questions, when he was taken to custody:
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Yea but comeon, was he going to say anything else? He has no choice but to say that. And I didn't see any indication that the guy was anywhere near about to give Kerry a chance to answer any of those questions. He was effectively ranting - spouting his viewpoint. They weren't questions, it wasn't a dialog, the guy was looking for a podium.

He got one, a big one.
 
LdS
Either way, and back to topic, and this time, expressing my opinion about the event, I think that the cops did very wrong in “tore” the guy up, it was unnecessarily. I can’t, although, condemn the guy. He was in his right to do those questions.
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So, by asking if John Kerry was in a secret society in college with George W Bush and making a crude mention of Bill Clinton's sexual activities he wasn't being out of line?

That was uncalled for in my opinion and he deserved to be asked to leave. Then as they were attempting to escort him out and he rushed forward, at a United States Senator, security has no clue what his intentions are and immediately take him down and remove him. I fail to see, up to that part, what the plolice did wrong and can't make a judgment on the tasering part because both videos don't have a clear view at that point.

And John Kerry admitted he was about to answer the questions, when he was taken to custody:

- font: http://www.miamiherald.com/1060/story/241914.html
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I am trying to think of a Democrat politician that doesn't jump on the "police are wrong" bandwagon. I will have to watch both clips when I get home and try my best to hear what Kerry is saying.
 
Danoff
Yea but comeon, was he going to say anything else? He has no choice but to say that. And I didn't see any indication that the guy was anywhere near about to give Kerry a chance to answer any of those questions. He was effectively ranting - spouting his viewpoint. They weren't questions, it wasn't a dialog, the guy was looking for a podium.

He got one, a big one.
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He was about to stop when the police takes him to custody. You can see that clearly in the first video.

FoolKiller
So, by asking if John Kerry was in a secret society in college with George W Bush and making a crude mention of Bill Clinton's sexual activities he wasn't being out of line?
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Sorry, I didn&#8217;t understand that part, but even though, that is not a reason for the police to act like that.
 
Should I change this into a "what does freedom of speech mean" discussion? Because from what I see, alot of people are confusing it with the right to do whatever you want and be a jerk about it too.

LdS, he had no right to ask any questions. He was given the okay to, and they had all the right in the world to ask him to leave. And in this country, if you are asked to leave an area and do not do so, it is trespassing, which is a crime. And what was he about to stop before they took him into custody? He resisted arrest, made a big deal out of being asked to leave, and so on.

In the US, you have the right to speak your mind and what not. But it is a privilege to speak at SOMEONE else's event or place, as they control the right of who goes there and so on. How happy would you be if I showed up at your house and started ranting about your sex life, or such? You would ask me to leave, correct? And I would have to. Plus there are laws on slander, disturbing the peace, and so on.
 
LdS
He was about to stop when the police takes him to custody. You can see that clearly in the first video.
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Not even close. They cut his mic off. He was still talking, but his voice wasn't being heard. At that point he went for the stage (presumably so that he could speak directly to Kerry without a mic). About the time he was headed for the stage, the police took him and started to lead him out of the room. That's when the real fun starts.
 
Azuremen
Should I change this into a "what does freedom of speech mean" discussion? Because from what I see, alot of people are confusing it with the right to do whatever you want and be a jerk about it too.

LdS, he had no right to ask any questions. He was given the okay to, and they had all the right in the world to ask him to leave. And in this country, if you are asked to leave an area and do not do so, it is trespassing, which is a crime. And what was he about to stop before they took him into custody? He resisted arrest, made a big deal out of being asked to leave, and so on.

In the US, you have the right to speak your mind and what not. But it is a privilege to speak at SOMEONE else's event or place, as they control the right of who goes there and so on. How happy would you be if I showed up at your house and started ranting about your sex life, or such? You would ask me to leave, correct? And I would have to. Plus there are laws on slander, disturbing the peace, and so on.
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From the website you put in the first post, it says clearly that he had the right to do that.
Originally posted by miamiherald.com
At about 1 p.m., Kerry was nearing the end of a forum at University Auditorium, a large facility beside UF's trademark Century Tower. At that point, audience members were allowed to ask questions at a microphone, university spokesman Steve Orlando said.
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Also, don’t generalize this. 1st. if you didn’t get any invitation, you wouldn’t enter my home (in the first place).
2nd. We are talking about a audition John Kerry did on an university. It wasn’t John Kerry who asked for him to leave. And I think he was the host of the audition, doesn’t he?

Danoff
Not even close. They cut his mic off. He was still talking, but his voice wasn't being heard. At that point he went for the stage (presumably so that he could speak directly to Kerry without a mic). About the time he was headed for the stage, the police took him and started to lead him out of the room. That's when the real fun starts.
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Analyzing bit more the video, you are right about he stopped speaking because they cut the mic. But in the first video, look at who demands the cut of the mic. And why they whanted the student to get out of the room when he starts talking about one book that says that John Kerry won the election and bla bla bla? Is there something hidden?

And I still don’t see when does the Student makes a crude mention of Bill Clinton's sexual activities.
 
This morning they were showing clips of a lady out clubbing that got tasered pretty badly, cause she wouldn't do what the cop wanted.
I know a little about "disparity" of force.
I wanna know why a 240lb cop couldn't subdue a 140 lb drunk chick.
She was kinda hot. Maybe the cop wanted some and she wouldn't give it up.
 
LdS
Also, don’t generalize this. 1st. if you didn’t get any invitation, you wouldn’t enter my home (in the first place).
2nd. We are talking about a audition John Kerry did on an university. It wasn’t John Kerry who asked for him to leave. And I think he was the host of the audition, doesn’t he?
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Nope, the university was.
 
LdS
From the website you put in the first post, it says clearly that he had the right to do that.
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No, the university was going to have him removed till John Kerry said he would take his question. His "question" first consisted of ranting about a book he thought Kerry should read, about how they should impeach Bush. When someone told him his time was up, he made a flippant remark about how the dean got 45 minutes or something and how he should have 2. He then asked his question, which pertained a Secret Society "Skull and bones."

He had no right at all to be there, the university allowed it only because of the grace of Kerry. Once they saw he was mostly trying to cause trouble and disrupt things, they cut the mic and attempted to remove him. If he had asked a normal question, rather than saying his little speech and then being a jerk, nothing would have happened.

But the sole reason that guy got up there was to cause trouble, the police report details how he only made a fuss with cameras around.
 
LdS
And I still don&#8217;t see when does the Student makes a crude mention of Bill Clinton's sexual activities.
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Watch the video I posted in post 20. He starts going on about why Kerry didn't push to impeach Bush and says, "Why don't we impeach Bush? Why did we impeach Clinton, a 🤬?" And that is when his mic was cut.

I would be pushing the AUP if I gave you the exact quote.

EDIT: I believe the time remaining was about 1:55.
 
YouTube is now blocked from work, can't watch it. I'll have to take everyone's word for it that this guy was a tad out of line.

Omnis
Campus police departments are always the worst.
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Having been to the University of Florida, I can only say it's thanks to the good (bad?) graces of Fraternity Row that the campus police didn't arrest me for going 21mph in a 20mph zone, or for parking illegally: One time, I cop blocked my assigned parking space, so I parked alongside the spot which was large enough for a Neon, but not big enough for much of anything else. It said No Parking, but UFPD was blocking me. I was carrying my camera at the time (a disposable kind...remember those?), so I smartly took a pic for proof when the inevitable ticket showed up on my windshield after work ended. Anyhow, that pic got me out of paying a fine, although hit took 3-4 months to finally get things cleared up.

Point is, don't be a dumb-ass in front of University cops. They're bored, and always want to be heroes. But they hate cameras.
 
What I don't understand is - going by the video - why the kid was tasered when he had already been detained. Tasers, I gather, were intended as a means of incapacitating a suspect; an Australian politician demonstrated one in Parliament House once, with the result being that the guy went down. The kid in the video, however, was given several hits (I counted at least two) when he had already been arrested and was being held down. So why did they feel the need to keep using the taser gun? The kid was in a position where he couldn't be a physical threat to anyone (if he ever had been), removing the need for the taser to be used, so they were basically torturing him.
 
Do you race?
What I don't understand is - going by the video - why the kid was tasered when he had already been detained. Tasers, I gather, were intended as a means of incapacitating a suspect; an Australian politician demonstrated one in Parliament House once, with the result being that the guy went down. The kid in the video, however, was given several hits (I counted at least two) when he had already been arrested and was being held down. So why did they feel the need to keep using the taser gun? The kid was in a position where he couldn't be a physical threat to anyone (if he ever had been), removing the need for the taser to be used, so they were basically torturing him.
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They tazed him to get him to stop resisting arrest. They could have forced him to stop resisting in other ways, but the end result is always force.

There was no way to count how many times he was tazed because the angle was bad, but I think there was only time for one.

The tazer is not used in the case of a physical threat. In that case, I'd recommend officers draw their sidearms. The tazer is used as a method of non-lethal force to get a non-compliant citizen to comply. I posted an example where an officer was not being threatened in any way whatsoever and still used a tazer. I can give you another. Tazers have been successfully used on environmentalists to get them to unchain themselves from a tree that needed to be removed. In each instance, the people resisting arrest were of no threat to the officer, but the tazer was used as a means of non-lethal force to get them to comply with police orders.
 
Danoff
The tazer is not used in the case of a physical threat. In that case, I'd recommend officers draw their sidearms.
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In many cases I'd agree with you, but not in a crowded auditorium. Begging the question of if tasering was appropriate, firearms in this case certainly were not.
 
OK, I have another video that was put on my local Newstalk station's Web site. This one shows both angles of him getting tazed and then it shows him outside afterwards. He did not bring an ID (claiming he didn't think he would need it - whatever), refuses to tell them his name, and yells for everyone that followed them out to call the police station looking for him because they were planning to kill him.

I will say, the cops told him he was being arrested for tryinto incite a riot. :confused: I don't get that one. Disturbing the peace, maybe.

 
His talk could be considered an impassioned speech designed to incite trouble. Which is restricted by Freedom of Speech laws. I can see how they made this conclusion, and the charges could hold. Now, when he refused to give info and told students the police were trying to kill him, that certainly would fall into trying to incite a riot by inducing panic.
 

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