If ever a rule needed to be enforced ...

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Originally posted by Jordan
...
* No slang words that promote laziness, ie; "r", "u", "plz", etc.

* Half decent grammar is expected. Use of capital letters
starting sentences is looked upon favorably. Spelling
half decently is also encouraged.
...
Excerpt from GTPlanet Forums Rules and Terms of Service.

Would it be too much to ask for this rule to be enforced a little better? Pretty please? Maybe I'm getting old (at 23? ... ), or maybe I've just been chatting online so long that I've become grouchy and set in my ways. I don't like translating someone else's laziness into something I can read. Oh, and "l33t speek" is so incredibally annoying. I'm glad GTPlanet hasn't attracted that mentality.

And I've mentioned before (but I can't find the thread to see if someone followed up) that there should be a way to reward members for making intelligent, thought provoking posts. Something beyond 'moderator' status because, personally, I don't want to be a moderator. I have too much responsibility in my life as it is, especially in the digital world (: And why set rules such as members must have 200+ posts before they can enter times for Team GTP when there is a thread just for making posts? It seems that the posts should be rated, and the entry requirments based on the rating system. Why should custom 'member class' (ie: GTP Addict ) be based on number of posts, for the same reason? If I wanted to make my own title, I could just go start a thread and post a bunch. What's so special about that? I'd rather earn it by making threads and posts that enspire other members, moderators, and the owner to give me the status to make up my own title ... or join the team ... etc etc.

I don't mean to sound like I want take the 'powers that be' away from moderators or Jordan, but wouldn't it be nice if all the members had a little say in how everyone is "ranked"? I think it would put us on a more fair and equal playing field. Kind of like everyone jumping in a Vitz, and only being allowed to drop a turbo in when we said something worth hearing. Who gets around the track the fastest? Well, that'd be up to everyone, based on how they rate their peers.

I also don't want this to sound like the little 'nothing' posts of just a :) should go away. But maybe a rating system would encourage people to put a little message in with that smiley, adding to the thread just a bit more. Clicking -QUOTE- and sticking a :) on there doesn't really say much, when it only takes 10 seconds to share your opinion. We're all thinking :), but the guys (and gals) that take the time to key in a little note are the ones that are really thinking and contributing to GTP.

The board is great, and if nothing changed it wouldn't discourage me from coming back day after day until I've worn out my PS2 controller. But I think a member rating system would be pretty cool. It would require a lot of work to get it rolling, though, but I think it would be worth it in the long run. It seems to me that there is more than GT3 racing competition between boards. There is a 'quality of service' competition too, even if it's unspoken.

My $0.02.

I hope I haven't severly ticked anyone off. That's not my intention, though I find myself capable of that talent quite often, and unintentionally.

~LoudMusic
 
Originally posted by LoudMusic

Excerpt from GTPlanet Forums Rules and Terms of Service.

Would it be too much to ask for this rule to be enforced a little better? Pretty please? Maybe I'm getting old (at 23? ... ), or maybe I've just been chatting online so long that I've become grouchy and set in my ways. I don't like translating someone else's laziness into something I can read. Oh, and "l33t speek" is so incredibally annoying. I'm glad GTPlanet hasn't attracted that mentality.

And I've mentioned before (but I can't find the thread to see if someone followed up) that there should be a way to reward members for making intelligent, thought provoking posts. Something beyond 'moderator' status because, personally, I don't want to be a moderator. I have too much responsibility in my life as it is, especially in the digital world (: And why set rules such as members must have 200+ posts before they can enter times for Team GTP when there is a thread just for making posts? It seems that the posts should be rated, and the entry requirments based on the rating system. Why should custom 'member class' (ie: GTP Addict ) be based on number of posts, for the same reason? If I wanted to make my own title, I could just go start a thread and post a bunch. What's so special about that? I'd rather earn it by making threads and posts that enspire other members, moderators, and the owner to give me the status to make up my own title ... or join the team ... etc etc.

I don't mean to sound like I want take the 'powers that be' away from moderators or Jordan, but wouldn't it be nice if all the members had a little say in how everyone is "ranked"? I think it would put us on a more fair and equal playing field. Kind of like everyone jumping in a Vitz, and only being allowed to drop a turbo in when we said something worth hearing. Who gets around the track the fastest? Well, that'd be up to everyone, based on how they rate their peers.

I also don't want this to sound like the little 'nothing' posts of just a :) should go away. But maybe a rating system would encourage people to put a little message in with that smiley, adding to the thread just a bit more. Clicking -QUOTE- and sticking a :) on there doesn't really say much, when it only takes 10 seconds to share your opinion. We're all thinking :), but the guys (and gals) that take the time to key in a little note are the ones that are really thinking and contributing to GTP.

The board is great, and if nothing changed it wouldn't discourage me from coming back day after day until I've worn out my PS2 controller. But I think a member rating system would be pretty cool. It would require a lot of work to get it rolling, though, but I think it would be worth it in the long run. It seems to me that there is more than GT3 racing competition between boards. There is a 'quality of service' competition too, even if it's unspoken.

My $0.02.

I hope I haven't severly ticked anyone off. That's not my intention, though I find myself capable of that talent quite often, and unintentionally.

~LoudMusic

First off I would like to say that quality of service is a great idea. The mentality of most posts (I have been guilty on occasion) is to be quick and too the point even if there is no point to make. The post counts have become a sort of carriot, reaching ever higher numbers to increase ones status. I have been a member since, well you can read, and there were times that I posted sencless smiles one post at a time just so I could reach 1,000 post so I could change my title to what ever I wanted to. It would be an asset to the forum if more posts had more meat to them. There a several members who supply GTPlanet with quality posts. BrianCNorton is a good example. He's been here forever, always has quality information, well spoken, good mannered, and If I remember right, under 300 posts. I think that a grading system of quality (not quanity) would be great. How would it be regulated? Post counts are easy - the php scripts do that for you, but how would a script decide what a quality post was from pure garbage? Ah, the "H" word. Yes, human intervention would be neccesary for such a grading system to work. I think it's a great idea.

Secondly, there are threads that a designated more for chatting than posting specific topicical information in a bulletin board. The rumble strip is a good example, where I go there just let everyone know I'm still kickin' around. Sometimes, simple yes and no answers or a smile to show my emotion is all I need to get my point across to the member(s) I am talking to. ;)

As for the 200 post limitation to enter times for the Team GTPlanet Qualification race, that limit has been lifted and is no longer enforced. It was an idea to try and limit short-timers from posting times that wouldn't be around for the actual Board vs. Board race.

~later~
 
Wise words indeed gentlemen.

As someone for whom the English language is quite dear, I feel its important for people to maintain some kind of standards for grammar and spelling, but I think that for GT Planet, maintaining the general quality of posts is more important.

There are some individuals (who shall remain nameless) who have a ton of posts and yet seem to have nothing valuable to say. They make numerous postings with just a :rolleyes: or a "yea dude" and rack up huge numbers of posts, making themselves feel important. Then they talk down to 'newbies' and others they feel are less senior members of the group. Seniority should be based on the quality of post and the value of the insights within, rather than the number of times someone can hit 'submit reply'.

Rant over - somebody hit 'submit reply':)
 
I totally agree with everything that has been said. I have often found myself thinking some negative things about certain members that may have the most posts and feel the need to talk down to new members, or give false information out. I have seen many low count members post really great information that I have even found very useful. Those people do deserve some type of :) or star to let everyone know on the board, that his or her post is quality stuff.

On the other side, people like me, can't stay away from this place. I am on this site almost all day Mon-Fri. Therefore my post count is fairly high. Often times though, my post have no real meaning other then to entertain me and other members on at the time. I think it is important that we don't make this site to serious. It is a web site based around a PS2 game. If the site became serious, many people wouldn't even show up. I too am 22, but we can't forget that GTP has members that are fairly younger. Their typing may not be the greatest, (neither is mine) and we need to understand that.

One other note: Lets not forget, through the world of AOL, typing in all lower case type is considered being polite. I know caps at the begining of each sentence wouldn't hurt, but when your used to typing fast in a chat room some where, caps get thrown out the window. As I was saying before... this is a relaxed site, and thats a relaxed way of typing.

Hope I made sense! :D
 
Well...lessee here. I understand what all of you are saying about good English. Nothing hangs me up more than someone who posts but can barely form a legitimate sentence with which to do so. However, I do hold a special place in my heart for colloquialisms, phonetic spellings (see above) and yes, l33tsp34k on occasion. I am also guilty of replying with only a smiley of some stripe-hey, sometimes they say it all. :)

We all use "improper" English in our day to day lives because it is so often that much more colorful and entertaining. Imagine a world where you could only use "Government-Approved" words and phrases. Yech...I don't like it either.

I do think we should hold ourselves to a certain standard here at GTPlanet. But I don't think a rule-to-be-enforced approach is the right one.
 
As for the 200 post limitation to enter times for the Team GTPlanet Qualification race, that limit has been lifted and is no longer enforced. It was an idea to try and limit short-timers from posting times that wouldn't be around for the actual Board vs. Board race.
Well I honestly hadn't thought about people leaving GTP (leave!?! ... egad! it can't be true!) after joining the team, but I suppose that is very possible. Having no other way to ensure that members commit, I appologize for my short-sightedness. Perhaps GTP can implement a better system. For this particular instance, I would say a timeframe would make more sense. If a member has registered and averaged a couple daily posts for a month, they could be concidered for Team GTP. Just a thought, it needs revision.

Seniority should be based on the quality of post and the value of the insights within, rather than the number of times someone can hit 'submit reply'.
My point precisely! Thank you for providing a more clearly aranged statement. I'd rate you up a few points on that one (:

Often times though, my post have no real meaning other then to entertain me and other members on at the time. I think it is important that we don't make this site to serious. It is a web site based around a PS2 game. If the site became serious, many people wouldn't even show up ...
Absolutely, creating a 'ranking' system based on quality of posts rather than number of posts wouldn't (shouldn't) discount members for posting non-sense, irrelivant, or playful messages. It would be soley for the purpose of lifting up members that provide insightful/meaningful information. If the same member 'chats' in both styles thats great, it just shows they're a well rounded individual (: I certainly wouldn't want to degrade someone's status because they stayed up late telling jokes on the discussion board.

Nothing hangs me up more than someone who posts but can barely form a legitimate sentence with which to do so. However, I do hold a special place in my heart for colloquialisms, phonetic spellings (see above) and yes, l33tsp34k on occasion. I am also guilty of replying with only a smiley of some stripe-hey, sometimes they say it all.

We all use "improper" English in our day to day lives because it is so often that much more colorful and entertaining. Imagine a world where you could only use "Government-Approved" words and phrases. Yech...I don't like it either.

I do think we should hold ourselves to a certain standard here at GTPlanet. But I don't think a rule-to-be-enforced approach is the right one.
Phonetic spellings I love. It's the lazy use of extreme abrivations when spelling out the word just shows intelligence. * No slang words that promote laziness, ie; "r", "u", "plz", etc is what I am refering to. I agree that a simple :) can say everything you want sometimes. Hey, a picture is worth a thousand words! But giving credit (counting as a post) ... when we then take that count to mean seniority is where I think there needs to be change.

YIPE! "Government-Approved" ... I don't like the sound of that, it's not what I intended at all. I am just looking for a way to improve the quality of discussion on the boards. I wouldn't want to remove the hordes of 'playful' posts in exchange for a few thought provoking posts. I'm just trying to encourage positive thinking (:

I think that implementing a peer rating system would eliminate the need for a rule-to-be-enforced approach. Members would want to appear more intelligent in front of eachother, therefore eliminating much of the flow of angst filled flame-war posts, and irrelivant posts.

Like I said, if nothing changes it's not like I'm going away. I just think there are some fun ways of encouraging better quality, ie. a peer rating system. I've had other ideas, but I think those need to go in another thread, or private messages to Jordan.

Speaking of Jordan, where are you man? This is all about your site! (:

~LoudMusic
 
Speaking of Jordan, where are you man? This is all about your site! (:
You guys just post too much, I can't get online until later in the afternoon! :( :mad: Anyways...


Would it be too much to ask for this rule to be enforced a little better? Pretty please? Maybe I'm getting old (at 23? ... ), or maybe I've just been chatting online so long that I've become grouchy and set in my ways. I don't like translating someone else's laziness into something I can read. Oh, and "l33t speek" is so incredibally annoying. I'm glad GTPlanet hasn't attracted that mentality.
No, it's not too much to ask, it's just nearly impossible to inforce! :( The only way that we can combat this, is to refer the offending members to the forum rules (directly in the thread would be the best place, since new members don't know how to use the PM feature), and ask them to please stop using the words and act more mature. And, if they continue, let me know about it and I'll take care of it from there. Of course, it would be nice (and much easier) to adjust the profanity filter to alter most common letter combinations to their "proper" spelling... :)

And I've mentioned before (but I can't find the thread to see if someone followed up) that there should be a way to reward members for making intelligent, thought provoking posts. Something beyond 'moderator' status because, personally, I don't want to be a moderator. I have too much responsibility in my life as it is, especially in the digital world (:
Yes, this is a very good idea, but it will take some time to develop into a fair and useful system. Members could be divided into different groups, each one gaining more features to use in the forums. Of course, to really make this work to it's fullest potential, a member rating system would need to be in place.

And why set rules such as members must have 200+ posts before they can enter times for Team GTP when there is a thread just for making posts? It seems that the posts should be rated, and the entry requirments based on the rating system. Why should custom 'member class' (ie: GTP Addict ) be based on number of posts, for the same reason? If I wanted to make my own title, I could just go start a thread and post a bunch. What's so special about that? I'd rather earn it by making threads and posts that enspire other members, moderators, and the owner to give me the status to make up my own title ... or join the team ... etc etc.
Yes, with the first Team GTP we made up, the majority of team members were newbies. They didn't have any idea what was going on, and dropped out in the heat of battle since they really didn't care. And, for this qualification, even though they could (and did) start posting messages just to increase their post count, it showed they were willing to invest their time and attention for the cause, and would be the most dedicated and loyal members to take part in the team.

I don't mean to sound like I want take the 'powers that be' away from moderators or Jordan, but wouldn't it be nice if all the members had a little say in how everyone is "ranked"? I think it would put us on a more fair and equal playing field. Kind of like everyone jumping in a Vitz, and only being allowed to drop a turbo in when we said something worth hearing. Who gets around the track the fastest? Well, that'd be up to everyone, based on how they rate their peers.

I also don't want this to sound like the little 'nothing' posts of just a should go away. But maybe a rating system would encourage people to put a little message in with that smiley, adding to the thread just a bit more. Clicking -QUOTE- and sticking a on there doesn't really say much, when it only takes 10 seconds to share your opinion. We're all thinking , but the guys (and gals) that take the time to key in a little note are the ones that are really thinking and contributing to GTP.
I will begin working on implementing a user rating system, but I can't exactly give you a time frame on when it will be available. It certainly is a great idea! :)
 
I just remembered something I've seen on another board that might be easy to implement. MacFixIt Forums has a checkbox by the submit button for 'I want to preview my post', which is defaultly checked. And on The5k.org EVERY post has to be previewed before it is posted. It seems to me that having every post looked at before it is actually posted would cause the members to think a little more about their posts. Personally, I preview almost all my posts just to see how they're going to look on the website. I also like to check for spelling, grammer, and vB code errors.

I know that after a while this would start to bug the guys and gals that end up sticking around, so there could be a breaking point (number of posts ... or total membership time ... ) where members have the option to turn the 'forced preview' off. I guess a breaking point could be used to enable all kinds of neat features ... spurring from the 'member self title' thing.

It's a thought ....

~LoudMusic
 
I really don't like the idea of user ratings. It just seems like it would open the door to petty flaming competitions. You know, I just don't like him/her...so I'll just give them a 1 out of 10. Perhaps we should drop rankings altogether.
 
Originally posted by risingson77
I really don't like the idea of user ratings. It just seems like it would open the door to petty flaming competitions. You know, I just don't like him/her...so I'll just give them a 1 out of 10. Perhaps we should drop rankings altogether.
Well, that's what the user rating would be for, bad or good. But, if you're getting rated (other than in posts), you'll want to make others happy, therefore decreasing flaming for stupid reasons. Personally, I know that I'll give anyone a low rating if I see them flaming or doing something innappropriate.
 
Originally posted by Jordan
Well, that's what the user rating would be for, bad or good. But, if you're getting rated (other than in posts), you'll want to make others happy, therefore decreasing flaming for stupid reasons. Personally, I know that I'll give anyone a low rating if I see them flaming or doing something innappropriate.


User ratings? We all have a rating?


Also......I have been capitalizing and ending all my sentences with a punctuation mark forever now. It seems as though I was the only one besides Jordan.
 
Originally posted by ViperConcept



User ratings? We all have a rating?


Also......I have been capitalizing and ending all my sentences with a punctuation mark forever now. It seems as though I was the only one besides Jordan.

Whoa there, you're jumping the gun. It's just an idea that I shared, and thought it would have a possitive effect on GTP.

No, you're not the only one that uses correct grammer.

~LoudMusic
 
Originally posted by ViperConcept



User ratings? We all have a rating?
No, not yet, but this is something I will be implementing soon. You'll hear about it when it's arrived. :)
 
Originally posted by ViperConcept
Also......I have been capitalizing and ending all my sentences with a punctuation mark forever now. It seems as though I was the only one besides Jordan.

I do every now and then, it really depends on if I have to get the post out quickly or not.
 
Originally posted by ViperConcept



User ratings? We all have a rating?


Also......I have been capitalizing and ending all my sentences with a punctuation mark forever now. It seems as though I was the only one besides Jordan.

Uhhh...'scuse me? Have you read my posts? :)
 
Well...

let's see. I enjoy this site very much, and I agree there are some things that could be made better. A user ranking system sounds very intersting, and I think it would be worth a try.

As for correct grammar, I don't think that it's that imporant. I frequently am too lazy or don't have the time to type something fully and proof read it -- and does it really matter, as long as people can understand what you're saying?

I frequently posted nonsense on the threads about nothing thingies to get more posts, as you probably noticed. I wanted to get to 1000. It's fun, and all about fun. However, I believe that despite the fact that I posted jibberish sometimes to raise my post count, I have still posted many helpful and intelligent things on the board. And I don't put newbies down, like you said some do in your original post.

does capilization really matter? can't you understand this just as well?

in any case, i'd love to try a membe ranking systerm as long as there were some limits as to how mnay times someone can vote for someone, etc., so no one raises their own a lot or puts other people down just out of hatred.

That's my THREE cents.

:)
 
ALLOW ME TO CLAIRIFY

What I am proposing is a system in which the members rate the individual posts that the members make. The members don't rate eachother, they rate the individual posts. The ratings on all the posts can then be used to generate a rating on the individual members. That rating can then be used to grant certain rights, open certain options, or give permission/access to other neat toys on GTPlanet.

This system would (I hope) encourage members to post more thought provoking and well constructed comments in the threads. That does not mean, necassarily, that users would be rated down for posting a bunch of nonesense comments on the boards.

Lets say for example that all posts start out with a rating of zero. Other members could then rate the post on a scale of 1 to 10. The average ratings on the individual post could then either be hidden or added to the "Author" column, next to its author's name, or something ... This system could also have a negative value. Say every thread starts at 2. Then other members could rate the post to a 1 or a zero, being able to decrease the rating. But once again, I -think- I would want it based on an average. Using averages keeps members from 'attacking' eachother's ratings.

One of my other favorite discusion boards is Slashdot (News for Nerds, Stuff that Matters). Their rating system is quite unique. Each post starts at 1 and can go up to 5 or down to -1. Not everyone has 'comment moderator' status all the time, though there are some that do. Instead, a new batch of moderators is chosen every few days. When a moderator moderates a post, the value is change imediately, but each 'moderation' is only worth 1 point. So if I moderate a post that is at 3 to +1, it would imediately become a 4. Then the sum of all moderations done to your posts becomes your "Karma". Currently mine is down to 23 because I was trash talking this drunken idiot ... and I got moded down ... (: Moderations are also given types. They include: insightful, interesting, informative, funny, flamebait, offtopic, underrated, overrated, etc etc ... It's obvious which ones are possitive and which ones are negative.

Ah, another nice feature that Slashdot has is the ability to hide comments that are rated at a certain level or below. I set mine to 3 (out of 5) so that all the rather meaningless posts don't show up when I view a thread. The problem is that a new post comes in at 1, and I don't see it until it gets moderated up to a 3. If something like this were implemented here, the boards could be selectively trimmed down for the individual user by the individual user. It causes some confussion for me when a 3+ comment is replying to an under 3 comment and they don't quote the origonal. The member seems to be talking to themself. Also, all moderators are encouraged to view the threads with a threshold of -1, so they see EVERYTHING, no matter how the other moderators have rated things. Keep in mind, Slashdot is huge and it can support this kind of rating system.

Also I would find a required "Preview Button" very helpful. It would prompt the members to at least look at what they're posting before it goes to the boards. At a predetermined number of posts (something in the range of 300 to 500) the feature could become an option. I've already stated that I think using post counts without post moderation is a bit strange. A brand new user can get to the coveted 1000 post mark in their first couple of days if all they do is post smilies to a thread. That leaves the guys that actually have something to add to the boards, and don't want to just sit and click "submit post", waiting for a while to set their own title. I want my custom title really bad, but I'm not going to post 700 smilies to get there. I'd rather get a custom title because I've earned it by adding quality to the boards, providing something that other members want to see or read. Back to the point ... the required "Preview Button" would slow down the amount of early nonsense posts by new users. After you've established that you're sticking around, do as you please, smiley all you want (:

=====

As I'm writing this post, I'm realizing that I've only been a member of the GTPlanet discusion boards for ... not even a full month yet, and I'm already suggesting major changes that effect the entire board and all its members. Quite possibly, I'm outa line here. But I honestly think these ideas could improve the 'quality' of the boards. I realise, though, that it might come at the cost of several members, and I hope Jordan realizes this as well. My intentions are to add to the boards, without taking anything away that already exists. Once again, I hope I haven't offended anyone.

I've also noticed that, first of all, I put this thread in the wrong catagory. It should be in Suggestions & Feedback, not on the Rumble Strip. And in addition to that, it has somewhat strayed from its intent, begining with my very first post. I was meerly asking that the moderators point out the rule that I quoted, and somehow found myself makeing all kinds of suggestions and ranting a bit. Ooops (:

My hands are tired, and I'm waiting on a phone call, I'm done for now.[/RANT] (:

~LoudMusic
 
Originally posted by mr persistance in User Ratings


it comes down to plain and simple QUALITY CONTROL ;)

I'd like to point out ... this isn't for CONTROL. I would only hope for IMPROVED QUALITY.

I've been learning the art of word choice ever since I started my current possition at an advertising agency. You make sure that everyone gets what you're saying, otherwise you've got your foot in your mouth and you don't even know it. (:

~LoudMusic
 
Originally posted by LoudMusic


Whoa there, you're jumping the gun. It's just an idea that I shared, and thought it would have a possitive effect on GTP.

No, you're not the only one that uses correct grammer.

~LoudMusic
Grammar and spelling even.

;)
 
I guess it would help if i actually looked at the dates of teh posted messages:) So what happened with this idea? Has it not been integrated yet, or was it just forgotten about?
 
nice idea LoudMusic ........spelling is pretty important to me ......i notice people with spelling mistakes all the time and i can tell that they didn't just hit the wrong key ......they actually think the word is spelled that way ......i don't bother saying anything though ........ capitals aren't a big issue but i do use them for proper nouns such as Ferrari, New York, Jacques Villeneuve, etc.
 
Ellipses used improperly piss me off severely, is it that hard to hit period 3 times instead of holding it down for 12 seconds?

Proper use:

"...and then he said, "grab my testicle.""

Improper use:

"........................and then he said grab my large breasts....................."
 
I alway try to use correct spelling and grammar. It just irks me when I read my post after I post it and I have to edit an error out.

The only "non-word" I use is "w00t."
 
There was a system that we had back at the old UBB GTF forums, where to gain a senior member status, the moderators chose you to be one, judging on quality of posts and whatnot. I thought this was a great idea, because then people would actually post meaningful threads, instead of just posting useless crap to get a higher status.
 
Originally posted by piesupreme
There was a system that we had back at the old UBB GTF forums, where to gain a senior member status, the moderators chose you to be one, judging on quality of posts and whatnot. I thought this was a great idea, because then people would actually post meaningful threads, instead of just posting useless crap to get a higher status.

Yeah, that's a good system - but not everyone wants to be a moderator, like myself.

In the past couple months I've realized that it isn't feasably possible to implement a quality control system on a free service. People just don't care enough to watch what they're doing. I've decided it's easier to let them do what they want and just ignore it, than to complain (for lack of a better word) about what they're doing.

Se la vi ...

~LoudMusic
 
Originally posted by risingson77
Just trying to uphold the high linguistic standards of GTP - for all languages! :D

For which I am proud to be associated as a GTP Member in kind with yourself. Bravo!

(:

~LoudMusic
 
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