If the election was held today...

[Carl.]

That was our point, I think. It looked like you were saying that Bin Laden's comment about socialists losing their credibility was aimed at Hussein, meaning that you didn't think there was much connection between the two.

No, the way I understand it is that the rallying message is not addressed to members of Saddam's Regime, given the last statement of its speech where he's labeling Saddam as an infidel ruler (that's how I see it, otherwise, why would he mention Baghdad?).

 

[Danoff]

Sounded to me like he was talking about the Americans troops in Bagdad.

 

[Carl.]

Sounded to me like he was talking about the Americans troops in Bagdad.

and the socialists are infidels wherever they are

And the speech was before the invasion.

 

[ledhed]

The speech refers to the rulers of Bahgdad and Yeman. both of whom Osama at that time opposed. the Al Queda leaders Saddam had given aid to are Al zaquari and one of the dead ones both from Egypt. saddams support for Al Queda blew hot and cold over the years as it could always come back to bite his ass, being that osama would just have soon had him replaced with a Mullah. his support was mostly of the enemy of my enemy is a friend, type. saddam had his hand in anything he could use to hit back at the US and his other enemy's.

 

[Muscles]

How Kerry can say those on stage represented American values shows how out of touch this man is. Ive finally come to the conclusion that the people who vote for Kerry are more than happy to revert to the past ignorance of the 90's. Kerry's slogan is "Let America be America again". The people who are afraid of taking on regimes in the Middle East will vote for John Kerry. The sad thing is that unless people realize that this isnt a game or a sham, they will be forced to realize that in another attack on our shores. If Bush declared he wants to go into the Middle East and deal with the threats, Hussein was the first candidate to be removed. So we have those who want to keep the status quo vs. those who actually believed that regime change and forceful responses are overdue.

 

[rjensen11]

Okay, the things about Newsweek:

Never use Newsweek as a source of information. If any debator used Newsweek, they would get laughed at until they sat back down, and then some. Newsweek never cites their sources accurately, if they cite them at all. I could write an article and list off as many facts as I would like, and it would be just as worthy of belief as Newsweek. Take this for example:
https://www.gtplanet.net/forum/showthread.php?t=17626&page=4&pp=20
It's too bad that crosswinds had to take away the page...

 

[Solid Fro]

So? ABC news and NPR said the same thing.

I think Newsweek is credible, even though they like to lean left.

 

[ledhed]

All the dudes running for President are on record as being PRO WAR ON IRAQ, so whats the difference between what Kerry would do from Bush ? kerry wants to get the rest of the world involved, so does Bush . the difference is on whose terms. Bush wants a better system of health care so does does KERRY so who has a better IDEA ? These guys are so close in there goals ..is anybody paying attention as to the REAL DIFFERENCE ????? Somebody come up with a real seperation besides I HATE BUSH OR I HATE KERRY . Whats the friggin difference ? Lets try to quantify it .

 

[rjensen11]

All the dudes running for President are on record as being PRO WAR ON IRAQ, so whats the difference between what Kerry would do from Bush ? kerry wants to get the rest of the world involved, so does Bush . the difference is on whose terms. Bush wants a better system of health care so does does KERRY so who has a better IDEA ? These guys are so close in there goals ..is anybody paying attention as to the REAL DIFFERENCE ????? Somebody come up with a real seperation besides I HATE BUSH OR I HATE KERRY . Whats the friggin difference ? Lets try to quantify it .

How does Bush want to get the rest of the world involved? By saying "**** you if you don't help us! We won't listen, we'll go on our own!"

 

[Solid Fro]

How many times do I have to say it? 48, that's right! Forty-eight countries are in Iraq right now. I'm sorry rjensen, just because France isn't part of the Coalition, doesn't mean it's not international.

 

[ledhed]

I wouldnt want someone in charge that saw a threat to the country and would not do anything about it because a couple countrys in Europe did not want to help.
If you think that a threats worth going to war over YOU BETTER GO IT ALONE if you have to.
Can you imagine electing a President who said he wouldnt go to war to protect the US , unless France , Germany and belgium helped out ? No one would vote for him , he'd be laughed off the planet. it would be nice if all of our so called alies were dependable but they are not, So you move on and work with the ones that are willing to help. I cant see why you cant see past all the hype and recognize such a simple concept.

 

[1X83Z]

How many times do I have to say it? 48, that's right! Forty-eight countries are in Iraq right now. I'm sorry rjensen, just because France isn't part of the Coalition, doesn't mean it's not international.

Got a list? Or just throwing out numbers?

 

[Solid Fro]

I don't throw out senseless numbers like the Democrats do, M5.

http://www.whitehouse.gov/infocus/iraq/news/20030327-10.html

Countries participating in the Coalition in Iraq:

Afghanistan
Albania
Angola
Australia
Azerbaijan
Bulgaria
Colombia
Costa Rica
Czech Republic
Denmark
Dominican Republic (pussied out)
El Salvador
Eritrea
Estonia
Ethiopia
Georgia
Honduras (pussied out)
Hungary
Iceland
Italy
Japan
Kuwait
Latvia
Lithuania
Macedonia
Marshall Islands
Micronesia
Mongolia
Netherlands
Nicaragua (pussied out)
Palau
Panama
Philippines
Poland
Portugal
Romania
Rwanda
Singapore
Slovakia
Solomon Islands
South Korea
Spain (pussied out)
Tonga
Turkey
Uganda
Ukraine
United Kingdom
United States
Uzbekistan

 

[Zrow]

Okay, well that includes countries such as Spain and the Dominican Republic. I found this:

United Kingdom: 9,000 soldiers
Italy: 3,000 soldiers, some serving as police and engineers
Poland: 2,400 soldiers
Ukraine: 1,600 soldiers
Netherlands: 1,100 soldiers plus a logistics team, a field hospital, military police and 200 engineers
Japan: 1,100 soldiers assigned to reconstruction
Australia: 800 soldiers
Romania: 700 soldiers plus 149 de-mining specialists, military police and "special intelligence" members
South Korea: 600 military engineers and medics
Bulgaria: 480 soldiers plus chemical warfare experts
Thailand: 440 soldiers assigned to humanitarian missions
Denmark: 420 soldiers including medics and military police
El Salvador: 360 soldiers
Hungary: 300 soldiers
Norway: 179 soldiers, mostly engineers and mine clearers
Mongolia: 160 soldiers involved in peacekeeping
Azerbaijan: 150 soldiers taking part in law enforcement and protection of historic monuments
Portugal: 125 soldiers functioning as police officers
Latvia: 120 soldiers
Lithuania: 115 soldiers
Slovakia: 102 soldiers
Czech Republic: 80 soldiers, serving as police
Philippines: 80 soldiers plus police and medics
Albania: 70 non-combat troops
Georgia: 70 soldiers
New Zealand: 60 army engineers assigned to reconstruction (expected to leave in Sept. 2004)
Moldova: 50 soldiers including de-mining specialists and medics
Macedonia: 35 soldiers
Estonia: 30 soldiers
Kazakhstan: 30 soldiers (expected to leave end of May 2004)


Source: http://www.cbc.ca/news/background/iraq/foreigntroops.html

 

[Solid Fro]

You're right, I should remove Spain and the Dominican Republic.

 

[Burnout]

George Bush will be getting my vote. Putting that weak, isolationist Kerry in office would give it just enough time for more trouble to brew around the world, so that another Republican would be left to clean up his mess and take the blame for his problems.

I was reading through and this one seemed to sum it up. 👍

...And I'd vote for Bush if for nothing other than to keep Kerry( ) out of office.

 

[Zrow]

And Nicaragua and Honduras.

 

[Danoff]

That list has to be up there for one of the largest coalitions in the history of war.

 

[Muscles]

Can you believe this lie of Kerry's and the left? For them they spit directly in the face of all the countries we have involved because their bretheren socialists in France and Germany were not involved. The idea that Kerry can claim that excluding two countries who had oil deals with Hussein constitutes unilaterilsm is insane. This is just another reason to vote for Bush. Kerry represents a internationalist view where only Old Europe's views count for America. Its a new page in history my friends. George Bush has shown that he is willing to not only reform the Middle East, but he is not beholden to the UN or France like Kerry is. Kerry wants to take this country back to subpeonas and Woodrow Wilson appeasement to the world opinion. We were attacked if anyone remembers. We have not only a ****ing mandate, but a right to do what others are afraid to do. Break the status quo and hold regimes responsible. You want to go back to your head being in the sand and worry about people not liking you, you vote for Kerry. If you actually realize that the US cannot sit by and twiddle its thumbs and let the status quo exist post 911, vote for George Bush.

 

[Carl.]

Numbers. Lists. Oooohh. 💡

Perhaps the list of Countries that opposed the war is worth a look too, for comparison sake:

France
Germany
Russia
China
Canada
Brazil
Mexico
Malaysia
Indonesia
Belgium
Switzerland
Sweden
Norway
Greece
Austria
Liechtenstein
Serbia
Czech Republic
Croatia
Slovenia
Venezuela
Argentina
Chile
Guinea
Cameroon
Angola
Belarus
Vietnam
New Zealand

29 countries so far

(including Banana Republics, I know... )
"The great nations have always acted like gangsters, and the small nations like prostitutes" - Stanley Kubrick

Plus

African Union (52 Countries)
Arab league (with the exception of Kuwait - Doh! - not sure about the exact number of countries, though)

Oh, forgot the "pussies":

Spain
Domincan Republic
Honduras
Nicaragua
Solomon Islands - you forgot those

We could also add a new section: Countries were the administration supported the war, but not its people, so they lost the next elections because of it. (e.g. Finland)

Feel free to correct any error made in the list if there are any, I'll change them.

A little map, to put things in perspective:
(there are little mistakes, such as Afghanistan and Finland, I might make a corrected version if I'm bored enough)

(I've removed the picture from the post size made it obnoxious with scrolling - Here is the link)
http://en.wikipedia.org/upload/b/bf/Country_positions_Iraq_war.png


I'm just wondering how strict the rules have to be in court for a Jury to deliberate and agree on a verdict that will result in capital punishment. Or how strict it would have to be if the decision would cost thousands of lives that it could be avoided.

Viper Zero, on the alleged terrorists link with Al Quaeda, I'll look up for the Al zaquari link. Maybe we should continue this discussion in one of the other existing threads on Iraq, I don't want to Hijack this one.

 

[Danoff]

Nice call on Madagascar, Burundi, and Lesotho opposing the war. You forgot to include Antarctica.

By the way, California should probably be purple.


What really ticks me off is Gabon... I really don't see why they're against us.

Perhaps the list of Countries that opposed the war is worth a look too, for comparison sake:
...
Switzerland
Sweden

Seriously? I didn't realize we were more unpopular than the Nazis. I guess we really have done a lot of wrong if we can be worse than them.

 

[Carl.]

Nice call on Madagascar, Burundi, and Lesotho opposing the war. You forgot to include Antarctica.

They're a great support for whatever camp they choose, makes a +1 on the list!!

Like those:

Albania
Angola
Azerbaijan
Costa Rica
El Salvador
Eritrea
Georgia
Iceland
Kuwait
Latvia
Lithuania
Macedonia
Marshall Islands - My best pick so far
Micronesia - Well... Not sure anymore.
Palau
Panama
Rwanda
Solomon Islands -
Tonga - Does anyone (without looking it up, don't cheat) could tell me where it is on the map?
Uganda
Uzbekistan

 

[Danoff]

I think the map is a little more purple than is representative.

 

[ledhed]

who cares if the pope the king the communist the bulgars the liberals the misfits the dopes the gangsters the moores the bimbos the pedophiles the french the indians the midgets the fat dudes the ugly chicks the spanish the arabs the martians and the rest of the world are against /for/ lukewarm/want money ? its the United States thats acting to protect the United States and its interest , if it helps everyone else by removing a bastard or two or three ..hey send cash. We here in the US elect people to represent us they discussed it ande decided that Saddam and the taliban must go..so they are gone , if we dont like it or the way they did it we will remove them. The day we have to worry about the rest of the world helping us take out a tin pot dictator and a bunch of misogynistic fundementalist is the day we change the name of our country to France or something..like Vichy . You just do not get it ..the planes hit here our people and our guest died we will bring the culprits and whomever will support them or aid them no matter where in the world or how deep a hole they hide in . Saddam was an enemy he is no longer . The Taliban supported and aided Osama ..they are no longer...do you see a trend yet ?

 

[Duke]

While your point is taken, jp, it's tangential. We're totally clear on the fact that many countries opposed the war. What seems to be lost in all the yammering is that many countries supported it, as well.

 

[rjensen11]

How many times must I say it? HOW IS THE US SAFER NOW THAT SADAM IS OUT? Have we found ANY evidence that he was making/using/associate with WMD's since the Gulf War? Is there any evidence that he's somehow associated with Osama? IS THERE ANY EVIDENCE THAT HE WAS PLANNING TO ATTACK THE US????

 

[2ez2KiLL]

Heres another perspective. If the terrorists want John Kerry, and they do get John Kerry, then they just might stop driving planes into buildings and blowing up bombs in the U.S.. I also think that Bush has done enough damage to the U.S economy. He wastes money on unnecessary things like wars. If Gore was president, 9/11 might have never happened. So my vote definitely goes Kerry.

 

[Carl.]

While your point is taken, jp, it's tangential. We're totally clear on the fact that many countries opposed the war. What seems to be lost in all the yammering is that many countries supported it, as well.

Agreed. I've once labeled this war as unilateral and I was wrong in doing so.

But as bureaucratic as it may seem, a majority in an international council should be required to give legitimacy to an invasion of a sovereign country. If we don't act like that, we're going towards a very dangerous slope where it's easy to abuse of your power to serve your own interests. We're getting a lot of negative reactions, and - my main concern - are sending new generations of volunteers to terrorists groups right now. Westerners like us are still arguing about all this... I'm wondering how they see it from the Middle East.

Don't get me wrong - I do think Saddam is an asshole that needed to be removed from power - But in 2003, was he really a threat to other nations, or about to cause another genocide? His country was on really high surveillance, and being toroughly inspected. Why did we have to present bogus reasons in front of the UN to speed things up? (I was waiting for that irrefutable proof, then my jaw just dropped when I heard about the copy from a student work...). That didn't look serious. It did get support from some countries, but nowhere near as Desert Storm did. And if UN resolution had to be toroughly and strictly enforced, there would at least be an UN peacekeeping force in Israel prior to invading Iraq.

 

[Kent]

Heres another perspective. If the terrorists want John Kerry, and they do get John Kerry, then they just might stop driving planes into buildings and blowing up bombs in the U.S.. I also think that Bush has done enough damage to the U.S economy. He wastes money on unnecessary things like wars. If Gore was president, 9/11 might have never happened. So my vote definitely goes Kerry.

I think I just read the post of the year.

So let me get this straight.

Leave the terrorist alone and they will leave us alone.
If Gore had become president, 9/11 wouldn't have happend.
💡

I just can't believe any one would believe what you posted.

 

[2ez2KiLL]

I think I just read the post of the year.

So let me get this straight.

Leave the terrorist alone and they will leave us alone.
If Gore had become president, 9/11 wouldn't have happend.
💡

I just can't believe any one would believe what you posted.

I do agree, this is the post of the year. I think Osama hated bushes parents or something.

Wheres the post of the year thread? 💡