Ignition problem...could use some help.

[skynyrd]

The spark plugs...have no spark. The car is a 1989 Mercury Tracer 2 door hatchback with 240k miles, pretty much the same car as the Mazda 323 of that year. The engine cranks fine, but won't start. It's been slow to start a few times, but only failed to start one time previously, several months ago, and started up fine the next day. Every other time I've tried to start it up until this fall, I've never had a problem, even on the coldest days here (it's been in the teens and single digits a few times).

Distributor cap and rotor showed quite a bit of wear, so we replaced them. It didn't do anything.

Using a multimeter, checked primary and secondary resistances in the ignition coil. Secondary is within the suggested limits, but primary is 0.9, a tenth lower than the suggested range of 1.0-1.3. This wouldn't be enough to stop any spark at all from getting to the spark plugs, would it?

I've looked all over the internet for information on different ways to test these things, but even though I find people everywhere mentioning other ways, they never seem to explain how to do it. And, of course, the first thing we checked was whether the spark plugs were getting any spark. Is there a good way to check if power is actually getting to the coil? How about the distributor?

I don't want to replace the ignition coil, all the wiring, and the distributor on the off chance that one of them will fix the problem, because even though we can do the work ourselves, that'd be quite a bit of money to blow on parts when they may not even fix the problem, and I really can't afford that much at the moment anyway...pretty much the same reason I haven't taken it to a mechanic.

So...any ideas? Keep in mind, I can't afford to buy another car any time soon, so Miatas are out

 

[Slash]

I'd use a mulitmeter or a test light on the wires going to the coil but it sounds like the coil itself isn't putting out what it should be. Have you checked for any melted fuses, bad ignition switch? My buddy had his computer go and it did the exact same thing except the coil had absolutely nothing. Theres quite a lot that could go wrong.

 

[Punknoodle]

Have you checked the lead which goes from the coil to the distributer?

 

[skynyrd]

Slashfan: The fuses are okay, we pulled them to see. But anyway, the ignition switch controls the starter, right? The starter seems to be working fine, it's just that power is not getting to the spark plugs. I hope it's not the computer...that's something I really can't afford to replace. Do you know what sort of effect the slightly lower primary resistance might have? The different sites I've seen never explain anything; they just say to replace the coil.


Punknoodle: Nothing seems to be wrong with the lead.

 

[Slash]

The ignition switch can do a multitude of things depending on the car, generally from what I've seen it controls whether or not current is sent to the coil, kind of like an on/off thing. Just for a Bronco alone a junk yard ECU cost over $100. It's several things, ignitions systems were never something I was really strong with.

 

[Perfect Balance]

Just follow everything back from the plugs. If they aren't getting spark, make sure your wires are, if they aren't, check the distributor and make sure it's getting power. If it's not, check your ignition coil. Sounds like it might be bad, but I would get a wiring diagram and make sure everything leading up to the coil is in order. Sooner or later you will get to a component that is getting all the right signals, but not putting anything out. There will be your problem.

 

[skynyrd]

Just follow everything back from the plugs. If they aren't getting spark, make sure your wires are, if they aren't, check the distributor and make sure it's getting power. If it's not, check your ignition coil. Sounds like it might be bad, but I would get a wiring diagram and make sure everything leading up to the coil is in order. Sooner or later you will get to a component that is getting all the right signals, but not putting anything out. There will be your problem.

This may sound stupid, but keep in mind that our car repair knowledge is very...spotty. My dad's afraid to touch anything electrical unless it's to replace something, and while I'm comfortable with general maintenance (oil, brakes, that kind of thing), I don't know anything about a car's electrical systems.

So...how would one check to see if power is getting to these components without burning something up?

 

[Punknoodle]

Grab a cheap multimeter from the shop, put it on volts DC in the correct range (if it isn't self ranging) - we are looking to read 12-14 volts. Put the leads in the right ports on the meter (the black in to COM the red in to V - the other ports are for current testing. By the way I'm being very generic here based on most cheap multimeters.

Put the negative lead on the chassis and the positive lead on the positive terminal of the battery. Should read voltage. This has proven your meter. Crank the engine, with it cranking, take the negative lead of your meter and put it on the chassis again, and take the positive lead and touch it on the positive terminal of the coil. You should see voltage there when cranking.

Stay away from the coil output, as in, don't unplug the lead, you can't test the output of it with your meter.

 

[skynyrd]

Okay, I'll check that out tomorrow.

 

[savage388]

The ignition switch can do a multitude of things depending on the car, generally from what I've seen it controls whether or not current is sent to the coil, kind of like an on/off thing. Just for a Bronco alone a junk yard ECU cost over $100. It's several things, ignitions systems were never something I was really strong with.

I highly doubt the ecu is no good as from my reading that 323 has a real distributor which works with the ecu, and is not completely dependent on it like a coil. Plus he wouldn't be getting fuel either if the ecu had been fried.
I am by no means familiar with the 1989 323 however typically a no spark comes from two places, the ignition or the distributor. That said if you dont want to buy stuff and try it out start tracing the wires from the distributor the whole way to the ignition switch and checking for 12v at key on.
My bet is still in the coil though, they see serious abuse and after 20 plus years it takes a toll.

 

[Ken]

Sounds like a ignition switch to me. Those Mercurys have a problem with those. That would be my first look if I were you. I have sold my fair share in my day.

Source: I was a Ford service adviser and parts sales man for almost five years.

 

[skynyrd]

Koios, when you say "those Mercurys", do you mean Mercury cars from that year, or the first generation Mercury Tracer in particular? The first gen Tracer was completely different from the rest of the Mercurys since it's pretty much a Mazda rather than a ford.

 

[Slash]

Sounds like a ignition switch to me. Those Mercurys have a problem with those. That would be my first look if I were you. I have sold my fair share in my day.

Source: I was a Ford service adviser and parts sales man for almost five years.

That's what I was thinking.

 

[skynyrd]

Now, a followup so that other people with the same problem can figure it out easier.

We were able to confirm power was getting all the way to the distributor by using a multimeter. Shortly after the last post in this thread, the car developed a problem with the starter hanging up. Again, that was the ignition switch. Well, the switch lasted 240k miles, so I guess I can't really complain, but still.

It was indeed the ignition switch. Which, for this car (1989 Mercury tracer, the same as the 1989 Mazda 323), runs about $205 including tax. Ouch. The ignition switch for these cars includes the cylinder you put the key in, as well as a huge bundle of wires that go back along the steering column up under the dashboard. You also have to take the steering wheel and part of the dashboard above the steering wheel completely off to switch it out, which requires a special tool and is a real pain; getting my hands into the tiny space available to unplug bundles of wire was quite difficult as well.

There is no car repair manual for this car; we were able to improvise with the use of a manual for the Mazda 323 of the same year, and didn't run into any problems with it.

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There, my good deed of the day is done. Now people with this same problem (and there are quite a few, judging by what I saw trying to find nonexistent information about it on the internet) have a way to get started if they can find this thread. Also, thanks for the help, everyone!