Igor Fraga vs. Mikail Hizal: The World Final Rematch We've Been Waiting For

[mclarenLB]

Actually I think that any virtual racing that allows a racer to attempt a "redo" of the same race in multiple time slots of the same event and only requires half of the results to be tallied to determine where or if one qualifies for the event is arcadish and much more like a game than an actual e-sports event where the bad results should count as much as the good results.

Also a competition where the drivers draw the cars they are going to race out of a bowl right before the race you really want to call that any sort of a realistic sports event where the car drawn and which track is being run does as much or more to do with influencing the racers fortune in the event as the racers actual skills?

Watching both series, iracing and gt sport competitions online I would have to say that the iracing more closely mirrors what you would see in a real life event. I also see much less ping ponging of cars and vehicle contact in general with the iracing drivers as compared to the gt sport drivers in most events. Just watching the online events I would say the iracing format including penalty phases is a step above GT sport in realism or as compared to real world racing.

I like both but the iracing format is just closer to that of real world racing whether you happen to like it or not. And no I do not have an iracing subscription.

Using real life racing as a parallel is irrelevant because they aren't trying to simulate real life racing 1 to 1, nor is the series used as a feeder into real life in any way, shape or form.

Its a standalone competition to find the best Gran Turismo driver, I think there is a ton wrong with GTs qualification and event format. But its slaughtering every other racing Esport out there on figures, and the figures are the true measurement of how successful a series is, not an arbitrary measurement of 'how close it imitates real life', that doesn't keep you in business or push you into the mainstream.

And for what its worth, I think the FIAGTC could be way bigger than it is even right now, but it feels like PD have made endless daft decisions this year, some of which you highlighted.

 

[kjeldsen]

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[mirial]

When will this very talented kids leave the arcadish video game granturismo to start venture on a real simulator like iracing to compete and prove themselves with the big boys?

I've been saying something similar since the beginning; the game has all the right ingredients to be great ignoring the current tyre model, but like what I've said before, the world's "best sim racers" aren't doing themselves any favours by persisting with the same conditions designed for the average DS4 user which stump their ability to develop as sim racers......and they stay so silent on the subject. This is bad.

If I'd have just contented myself with stock settings on just a narrow range of cars back in the day, I would have learned very little and got to learn very little about myself driving wise which I can potentially apply to real life.

 

[kilesa4568]

@mclarenLB Interlagos and the Red Bull doesn't sound like a good combo with the current slipstream. Do you know if they're using the new dirty air fix that people are talking about for this event?

Let's call it factional?

You might want to check that word's definition first, but sure, I'll call your opinion factional.

 

[mclarenLB]

@mclarenLB Interlagos and the Red Bull doesn't sound like a good combo with the current slipstream. Do you know if they're using the new dirty air fix that people are talking about for this event?

It'll be on a build about 2 months ahead of retail, I was told the "dirty air fix" wasn't a massive change mind.

 

[Veinz]

Looking forward to this! Also really interested to see Lewis Hamilton in the pro-am race.

 

[kjeldsen]

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[kilesa4568]

So that makes him a dirty driver...

Naive.

 

[theschledy]

So that makes him a dirty driver...

Naive.

In their defense they never actually said Fraga was dirty. They said the move was dirty, which it was cause he was penalized for it...

 

[VFOURMAX1]

Using real life racing as a parallel is irrelevant because they aren't trying to simulate real life racing 1 to 1

If that were the case why have different makes of cars with different tire wear, fuel consumption, handling and acceleration characteristics and even aerodynamic differences ? With computer coding they could make all the cars within a class race the same while modeling the looks of whatever they wanted to mimic cosmetically to give the appearance of multiple brands of cars on the track.

But then the racing would not as closely mimic or resemble the differences associated with real life racing so the irrelevance or relevance to real racing depending on how you look at it does seem to have a bearing on the product and experience they are delivering to the public.

Its a standalone competition to find the best Gran Turismo driver,

In that case all cars should be identical and fuel and tire strategy would not be an issue to decide the outcome of the finish. Being the best driver may not always be the smartest driver or the driver that picks the best strategy, which will change depending on what occurs on track around them and in many cases not of that drivers choice or within their control.

If the goal was to just plain find the best or even fastest GT driver then as many variables that could alter the outcome that was beyond a competitors control would be eliminated.

Gt does a lot right but it also does a lot wrong.

 

[kilesa4568]

They said the move was dirty

Even that is harsh to say.

What would have happened if Mik had spotted Igor slowing down going through Eau Rouge instead of being surprised by it at Raidillon? It could have been a copy of the move a lap or two earlier where he gifts Mik the lead only to take it back off him at Les Combes instead. Admittedly, it would be hard for Mik to spot but as he was the following driver, it's his job to try and spot it.

I do agree with the penalty but only because Igor's gamesmanship was slightly off with the wrong place on the track and the wrong time for Mik to catch him. Two or three tenths either way, Mik passes Igor, Igor passes Mik and we applaud again.

 

[Deadpool]

Even that is harsh to say.

What would have happened if Mik had spotted Igor slowing down going through Eau Rouge instead of being surprised by it at Raidillon? It could have been a copy of the move a lap or two earlier where he gifts Mik the lead only to take it back off him at Les Combes instead. Admittedly, it would be hard for Mik to spot but as he was the following driver, it's his job to try and spot it.

I do agree with the penalty but only because Igor's gamesmanship was slightly off with the wrong place on the track and the wrong time for Mik to catch him. Two or three tenths either way, Mik passes Igor, Igor passes Mik and we applaud again.

No. No. No. literally everything you just said is wrong.

Its not harsh. Not in any way shape or form. Igor lifted in the middle of Eau Rouge with another driver right behind him going flat out. This is ILLEGAL in all forms of racing.

There’s no mincing words about this. He lifted and caused a collision. Because they made contact and the other driver had to take evasive action in one of the worlds most dangerous corners......where literally days later a driver died in real life.

It is not Miks job to anticipate a driver doing a illegal move on track lifting in the middle of a flat out corner. This is so insanely ridiculous to even suggest that Mik had any responsibility in that.

I have a feeling you have never set foot on a real track at speed.

Im not calling Igor a dirty driver......yet. But what he did was incredibly dirty/dangerous. Let’s put it this way, if Igor values his life, he would never ever attempt what he did in real life. He only did it in the game because there’s no consequences.

This isn’t just keyboard talk either. I’ve been through Eau Rouge, in all conditions, sideways in a 73 RS Rep in the rain, dry flat out etc. That is not a corner you want to play games in. When you enter it you are 100% committed.

 

[kilesa4568]

I'm sorry, but the person you were trying to speak to has just left the house to live off grid.

 

[Deadpool]

I'm sorry, but the person you were trying to speak to has just left the house to live off grid.

https://giphy.com/gifs/mrw-rub-softcore-NvgkEvycaWhPi

 

[schnick]

Holy crap the salt is real in this thread, different strokes for different folks, if you don't like FIAGTC why are you here?

 

[praiano63]

You'll be wanting this thread

In my opinion , talking about Mika and Igor outsiders Nico or anybody else can have something to see with this thread ... no ? They will not be alone on track on sunday for this "rematch".
If not , sorry for this.

 

[ScottPuss20]

Although the focus is being put on these two, I would be delighted if Rubilar or Kokubun win the competition.

 

[watto79]

I think if @TRL LIGHTNING has moved on from this then perhaps we should too.

 

[Famine]

In my opinion , talking about Mika and Igor outsiders Nico or anybody else can have something to see with this thread ... no ? They will not be alone on track on sunday for this "rematch".
If not , sorry for this.

The driver rankings article gives the bigger picture. The article here is about what I'm going to call FriZal (and nobody can stop me) because, as the article notes, Fraga won the title from Hizal right at the end of last year's final race and the incident in Spa is perhaps the defining moment of the season so far. This weekend will be the first time we get to see the two guys from last year actually race on track together since "the lift".

There's other talking points too. A preview article will go up in about 9hr with some things to watch for. I'll be on a train by then, and nearly on a plane

Although the focus is being put on these two, I would be delighted if Rubilar or Kokubun win the competition.

Yep, and we talk about the rest of our top ten at length in the driver rankings piece - and there's another bit in the preview article I mention above.

 

[kilesa4568]

No. No. No. literally everything you just said is wrong.

Its not harsh. Not in any way shape or form. Igor lifted in the middle of Eau Rouge with another driver right behind him going flat out. This is ILLEGAL in all forms of racing.

There’s no mincing words about this. He lifted and caused a collision. Because they made contact and the other driver had to take evasive action in one of the worlds most dangerous corners......where literally days later a driver died in real life.

It is not Miks job to anticipate a driver doing a illegal move on track lifting in the middle of a flat out corner. This is so insanely ridiculous to even suggest that Mik had any responsibility in that.

I have a feeling you have never set foot on a real track at speed.

Im not calling Igor a dirty driver......yet. But what he did was incredibly dirty/dangerous. Let’s put it this way, if Igor values his life, he would never ever attempt what he did in real life. He only did it in the game because there’s no consequences.

This isn’t just keyboard talk either. I’ve been through Eau Rouge, in all conditions, sideways in a 73 RS Rep in the rain, dry flat out etc. That is not a corner you want to play games in. When you enter it you are 100% committed.

When did we switch to real life?

Yes, he lifted and yes he caused a collision...because Mik ran into him. I can't help thinking that Mik got single minded about the inevitable pass he knew was coming and too busy to see the delta dropping (when it shouldn't be) as well as Igor being visibly closer. The slipstream is good in those cars but it's not that good.

I booed with the rest of you when it happened as I was cheering Mik on but I could guess what Igor was thinking after watching it back a few times. Contact wasn't intentional but slowing Mik was. It went wrong and likely cost Mik the race but I sincerely believe there was no malice involved, just a misadventure into gamesmanship.

Although the focus is being put on these two, I would be delighted if Rubilar or Kokubun win the competition.

The more winners, the better. Adam Suswillo is showing a lot of promise too.

 

[Ddkklop]

Real life experience matter ? I tought gts was just a simcade.
Anybody with enough skills and time can virtually train on any track with any car and be a virtual champion.
Back on real track real car , sure igor will have a huge advantage . This is not an analysis . You're right , but a simple fact.

GTS is a sim, imo, especially after new tyre change updates. Sure, it's not on the same level as other sims, but still a sim. Forza series and maybe grid suit this simcade title more.

 

[Riptide]

Even that is harsh to say.

Admittedly, it would be hard for Mik to spot but as he was the following driver, it's his job to try and spot it.

If that's correct does it also mean that Hamilton as the following driver on Sunday should have spotted Albon to cut in late ? Nah, don't think so. Are any one of those two dirty ? No, don't think so either. Rather seen as an isolated incident where eagerness and adrenaline got the better of one or both of them.

The Igor move in my view was intentional and dirty as hell, not a lapse in gamesmanship or whatever you want to call it. To say Mikhail should have anticipated that move on that corner in that car is very naive and so is shifting the blame on Mikail. BUT, as previously said, that does not say that Igor is a dirty driver. Aggressive and a hard racer yes, perhaps sometimes on the borderline, but not dirty. As Deadpool has said, it's how he will take it from hereon forward that will determine the label around his neck.

 

[mclarenLB]

If that were the case why have different makes of cars with different tire wear, fuel consumption, handling and acceleration characteristics and even aerodynamic differences ? With computer coding they could make all the cars within a class race the same while modeling the looks of whatever they wanted to mimic cosmetically to give the appearance of multiple brands of cars on the track.

But then the racing would not as closely mimic or resemble the differences associated with real life racing so the irrelevance or relevance to real racing depending on how you look at it does seem to have a bearing on the product and experience they are delivering to the public.


In that case all cars should be identical and fuel and tire strategy would not be an issue to decide the outcome of the finish. Being the best driver may not always be the smartest driver or the driver that picks the best strategy, which will change depending on what occurs on track around them and in many cases not of that drivers choice or within their control.

If the goal was to just plain find the best or even fastest GT driver then as many variables that could alter the outcome that was beyond a competitors control would be eliminated.

Gt does a lot right but it also does a lot wrong.

Im really confused as to why you're trying to sell me so hard on an opinion that I never disagreed with

 

[banckzy]

End of the day, it's just a game guys lol let's all take deep breaths.

 

[Riptide]

End of the day, it's just a game guys lol let's all take deep breaths.

On my and perhaps your level yes. On their level it becomes more than just a game.

 

[banckzy]

On my and perhaps your level yes. On their level it becomes more than just a game.

Agreed, hence why we should just relax on this thread. We're not aliens, so lets not get stressed over it.

 

[Riptide]

Agreed, hence why we should just relax on this thread. We're not aliens, so lets not get stressed over it.

This is what this forum and this thread is all about - to discuss anything relevant to the topic. AND, no, I don't see anyone stressing or behaving bad, just debating with a difference in opinion, which is good. So lets not get stressed over stressing.

 

[kilesa4568]

The Igor move in my view was intentional and dirty as hell, not a lapse in gamesmanship or whatever you want to call it. To say Mikhail should have anticipated that move on that corner in that car is very naive and so is shifting the blame on Mikail. BUT, as previously said, that does not say that Igor is a dirty driver. Aggressive and a hard racer yes, perhaps sometimes on the borderline, but not dirty. As Deadpool has said, it's how he will take it from hereon forward that will determine the label around his neck.

I'm not shifting all the blame on to Mik for what Igor did. Pretty clear on that in every post I've written but there's also a huge responsibility on the following driver. Igor's lift lasted several seconds, dropping around 30-35mph and was visibly slowing heading to Raidillon. We're not talking a massive speed drop so it's nowhere near the dangerous move that people paint it to be.

Kinda sad that people think about it like that but after years on this forum, I've seen the glaring holes in people's race craft and the overly polite way they race and expect to be raced in return. Tough. Racing is aggressive. Apply some skin thickening cream.

 

[Riptide]

I'm not shifting all the blame on to Mik for what Igor did. Pretty clear on that in every post I've written but there's also a huge responsibility on the following driver. Igor's lift lasted several seconds, dropping around 30-35mph and was visibly slowing heading to Raidillon. We're not talking a massive speed drop so it's nowhere near the dangerous move that people paint it to be.

Kinda sad that people think about it like that but after years on this forum, I've seen the glaring holes in people's race craft and the overly polite way they race and expect to be raced in return. Tough. Racing is aggressive. Apply some skin thickening cream.

Besides the SPA incident, I do actually agree with you. It's the hard racing that keeps me racing and make it great to watch. I just differ with you on the SPA incident as to on which side of the line it was. All good.

 

[mirial]

If the goal was to just plain find the best or even fastest GT driver then as many variables that could alter the outcome that was beyond a competitors control would be eliminated.

When you examine all the elements from the physics, restrictions and structure of online play all the way through to the tournaments, they are all conducive to trying to find the best "all-rounder" from as large a pool as possible with varying abilities without making it elitist. They have it well sussed, but it is a bit Blue-pill if you ask me as they have only tentatively experimented with certain types of trials that are the most accurate way to gauge who really is the fastest driver. In it's current guise, alien-like speed can be learned.