I'll Be Honest When I Say that I Like it

[Duke]

And remember, BMW doesn't care what you think - they're enjoying record sales on most models and profits are huge.

See my post in the "BMW retaliation/supercar" thread. I've already acknowledged that BMW is making a ghastly amount of money at the moment. And nowhere have I stated that BMW should care what I think.

In point of fact, those two comments are just about your only defense of Bangle's crappy styling that I've heard out of you over the last two years. I'm still waiting for you to address the underlying design critique, which you patently refuse to do.

Because I'm right. They're ugly, precious, tarted-up boxes.

 

[-Fred-]

On the other hand, I wish they all looked like this:

Make it an European model, however. That one had 326hp instead of our puny 240.

 

[///M-Spec]

Because I'm right. They're ugly, precious, tarted-up boxes.

Meanie. I'm gonna tell on you.


M

 

[Duke]

Meanie. I'm gonna tell on you.

Go ahead and tell, Chris Bangle and the BMW accountants don't care. I've come to terms with that already.
:\

 

[///M-Spec]

Go ahead and tell, Chris Bangle and the BMW accountants don't care. I've come to terms with that already.
:\

7-Series facelift and E90 says they do.


M

 

[1X83Z]

In point of fact, those two comments are just about your only defense of Bangle's crappy styling that I've heard out of you over the last two years. I'm still waiting for you to address the underlying design critique, which you patently refuse to do.

Oh, I know you're right. I've loved cars my whole life and most of them don't look like that. I'm actually a closet Bangle hater. My honest opinion is that the new 7-series is a joke (you're talking to someone who's owned two of the previous model - that's not a coincidence, folks), the 5-series is mostly trash from most angles, the Z4 is absurd and needs to be pulled out of the market immediately, and the 6-series is bloated, ugly, and stupid (especially compared to a certain beautiful offering from Mercedes). I think the X3 is among the best-looking SUVs ever built, though, and with the right wheels in the right color it's probably the best. I do like the new 3-series.

But at the end of the day, who gives a damn about the critique? The cars move regardless of whether we like them. I'm an economist about cars - if it sells, then nothing else matters. Not critics, not the ozone layer - nothing. That's why I think it's relatively to pointless to criticize.

I guess now that you've got a TSX BMW actually may care what you think. Especially if you're looking at S40 T5s.

 

[Duke]

Stop saying "at the end of the day". You need a new corporate jargon phrase.

And I'll be looking at used cars no matter what, so no manufacturer is going to care what I think. I'd love a well-speced last-gen (I can never keep the stupid E-numbers straight so I don't even try, besides, then I'd lose my right to bust on the Japanamaniacs) 3 series like ///M-Spec's, but for what that would cost even used I can't afford it.

 

[1X83Z]

Stop saying "at the end of the day". You need a new corporate jargon phrase.

I love saying it more than anything. You're the first one to pick up on it.

And I'll be looking at used cars no matter what, so no manufacturer is going to care what I think. I'd love a well-speced last-gen (I can never keep the stupid E-numbers straight so I don't even try, besides, then I'd lose my right to bust on the Japanamaniacs) 3 series like ///M-Spec's, but for what that would cost even used I can't afford it.

Another problem with BMW: their used prices. Don't even get me started. Christ.

Manufacturers still care if you buy used, particularly if you buy from a dealer. You're still going to pay the manufacturer somehow, even if you don't go to a dealer for servicing. Plus, we spend countless hours analyzing our resale values. Double christ.

 

[Duke]

Another problem with BMW: their used prices.

Mile for mile, year for year, Evo VIIIs and 325is are running right about the same price range: $23-$25k for a solid 2003 with <30,000 on the clock.

And why do manufacturers care about used prices? I suppose, to justify how much they can jack the new prices (or more accurately, avoid discounting them), but I can't see much else.

 

[1X83Z]

Mile for mile, year for year, Evo VIIIs and 325is are running right about the same price range: $23-$25k for a solid 2003 with <30,000 on the clock.

That's because Evos are just as desirable. They're both absurd.

And why do manufacturers care about used prices? I suppose, to justify how much they can jack the new prices (or more accurately, avoid discounting them), but I can't see much else.

Because

a) it's a huge selling point when resale is good
b) people run away in droves when resale is bad

At the end of the day, it leads back into brand prejudice. People would probably be happier in Hyundai Santa Fes than in Ford Escapes, but the Escape's going to be worth more down the road. That's not a very extreme example, but in large part people won't buy new cars with awful depreciation records. Nissan's got pretty bad depreciation and every year we lose an unfortunately large portion of buyers to nearly new Nissan sales - they just figure, 'same car, way less money.' That doesn't happen over at BMW where the used car is 'same car, exact same money.'

 

[///M-Spec]

I'd love a well-speced last-gen (I can never keep the stupid E-numbers straight so I don't even try, besides, then I'd lose my right to bust on the Japanamaniacs) 3 series like ///M-Spec's, but for what that would cost even used I can't afford it.

E46

And why do manufacturers care about used prices? I suppose, to justify how much they can jack the new prices (or more accurately, avoid discounting them), but I can't see much else.

They care on two levels.

1- Higher resale means better terms on lease residuals. A BMW's industry leading ability to hold it's value is directly tied to the fact that BMW Financial Services can offer 36 month residuals in the 62-64% range for many models. It's rivals, with the exception of MB can't even begin to touch this.

If they try to, they get HOSED at the end of the lease term.

Did you know that I pay $0.00 to have my oil changes and (costly) inspections done? BMW foots the bill on everything consumable but tires... in order to ensure ANY BMW less than 4 years old will have everything done and done properly. All this is an effort to keep the resale values up. This crucial when something like 1/3 of all luxury cars in the US are leased.

2- Brand equity.


M

 

[Duke]

Did you know that I pay $0.00 to have my oil changes and (costly) inspections done?

I would pay $0.00 for oil changes on the TSX, too, except for the fact that it's actually cheaper to do it myself, when I factor in the time and inconvenience of getting the car to the Acura dealership and picking it up again. Plus I get to use Mobil 1.

 

[///M-Spec]

Acura now has free maintanence as well? That's news to me. When did they start this?


M

 

[Duke]

Not all regularly scheduled maintenance, just oil changes. Dunno when they started it; it was in our deal as of last October.

 

[1X83Z]

Acura's still too cheap - but Audi, Jaguar, Land Rover, and Mercedes all offer the same amount of free maintenance as BMW, and Saab offers only slightly less.

 

[Duke]

I have no idea why this was closed. It's a good thread, so I'm reopening it on the assumption that it was accidental.