In 50 Years...

[///M-Spec]

Post what you think might happen in around 50 years. Year 2054.

We finally get GT4.

Kidding aside, I've long felt that from a historical viewpoint, attempts to predict the future have always said more about the current day in age rather than tommarrow. Future forecasting has always echoed the hopes and fears of a society that was very deeply rooted in the issues of the day.

When people were worried that the industrial revolution would turn them into mindless slaves or machines, they made up movies like Metropolis or wrote The Time Machine. When people thought science was the cure-all for their problems and allow them to live a life of leisure, they gave you flying cars, silver jump suits and domestic robots. When people worried about overcrowding (remember that?) they made Solent Green. When people were worried about a nuclear war, they gave you stories about post-apocolyptic futures like Planet of the Apes and The Terminator. How many films in the 70s were just allegories for the Vietnam War?

I think accurately predicting what the future happens so rarely, it is more by accident than by design. For every Arthur C. Clarke or William Gibson, there's thousands of hacks who end up wrong. Remember that oaf who predicted the entire human race would have straved to death by now because the Earth's biomass was insufficient to sustain our population? That famine, war and disease would have wiped us all out by 1997? I think I'll have a good laugh on him while snacking high on top of the food chain later. What a chump.

About the only thing I can predict with reasonable certainly is in 50 years, I will still stare and drool at hot college girls who wear too little clothing. That and Civics will still be slow.


M

 

[///M-Spec]

Yet Wal Mart is setting up shop in thousands of American towns, ruining the small businesses there due partly to Wal Mart's superior prices, something a small business can't compete with.

We'll probably want to take this onto a different thread, but I'd like to question why this is a problem. Seriously.


M

 

[milefile]

This leads to the financial insability of many families, since they can barely afford their house and all the other costs associated with home ownership.

Yeah. They need the governmnet to take care of them, poor saps. Some people are just like that, I guess.

Most of the world's population growth is occuring in the third world, where said people have very little chance of becoming a doctor or a scientist due to the poor education available. So we will probably see a drop in doctors per capita on a global scale.

You're right. Most of the world is poor and uneducated. And of course it can and will only get worse. There's really no hope, except international terrorism, which will make the world a better place with all it's vast resources and vision of hope.

Yet Wal Mart is setting up shop in thousands of American towns, ruining the small businesses there due partly to Wal Mart's superior prices, something a small business can't compete with.

Retail is one business among many thousands of businesses who's products are sold at Wallmart for lower prices where more people will buy them. How many people want to be a shopkeeper anyway? Your argument is like saying cars are bad because all the poor horse-drawn carriage makers went bust. It's absurd.

 

[Ev0]

We'll probably want to take this onto a different thread, but I'd like to question why this is a problem. Seriously.


M

The fact that they are completely overwhelming small businesses without giving them a chance is why that is so wrong. People have built up their businesses over their entire life, and to see it all die off because Wal Mart sets up shop next door really has to suck. Especially when 'lower prices' typically means 1% off the other store's price on item x.

Aside from that, I've never gotten good service at a Wal Mart or at similar big box stores. I find the best customer service is at small businesses.

 

[Ev0]

Yeah. They need the governmnet to take care of them, poor saps.

What does the government have to do with people buying things they can't afford?

Some people are just like that, I guess. You're right. Most of the world is poor and uneducated. And of course it can and will only get worse. There's really no hope, except international terrorism, which will make the world a better place with all it's vast resources and vision of hope.

When did I mention terrorism?

Retail is one business among many thousands of businesses who's products are sold at Wallmart for lower prices where more people will buy them. How many people want to be a shopkeeper anyway? Your argument is like saying cars are bad because all the poor horse-drawn carriage makers went bust. It's absurd.

Answer is above. We posted at the same time.

 

[///M-Spec]

The fact that they are completely overwhelming small businesses without giving them a chance is why that is so wrong. People have built up their businesses over their entire life, and to see it all die off because Wal Mart sets up shop next door really has to suck. Especially when 'lower prices' typically means 1% off the other store's price on item x.

Aside from that, I've never gotten good service at a Wal Mart or at similar big box stores. I find the best customer service is at small businesses.

Exactly what happens? Why would a small business die off?


M

 

[Ev0]

Everyone goes to Wal Mart because they advertise lower prices, which leaves small businesses unable to compete since they have no chance of being able to achieve the volume of Wal Mart.

 

[milefile]

What does the government have to do with people buying things they can't afford?

Well if they can't help themselves, and the government can't help them either, I'd say they're pretty much screwed. But you have to remember that banks try not to loan money they won't ever get back. People are only allowed to screw themselves as far as the bank's willingness to take risk.

When did I mention terrorism?

You didn't. I did.

 

[LoudMusic]

Robots will inherit the earth. Don't you guys watch movies?

 

[///M-Spec]

Everyone goes to Wal Mart because they advertise lower prices, which leaves small businesses unable to compete since they have no chance of being able to achieve the volume of Wal Mart.

Okay, so herein lies the crux of the issue. People choose Walmart over the local store because they are getting a better deal (or at the very least, they think they are).

So if most people who choose Walmart over Mom and Pop, that means most people are spending their money in the most efficient way possible, right?

So even though the local store loses out because they lose sales, the general public still wins, right? Less expensive products means more for your money, or the same products for less amount spent.

What's the problem? Sounds to me like the greater good has been served. How is this wrong?


M

 

[LoudMusic]

So even though the local store loses out because they lose sales, the general public still wins, right? Less expensive products means more for your money, or the same products for less amount spent.

Wrong - they loose selection, they loose quality, they loose customer service, and eventually they loose out financially because of the poor product quality. "Mom and pop shops" tend to carry more expensive products that are better and longer lasting. In the long run you end up with a better buy, though the initial investment is much higher. People don't see long term, same reason the credit companies are doing so well, and they run to Walmart where everything is half the price. They don't realize the products are less than half the quality and will have to replace it much sooner.

 

[Ev0]

Wrong - they loose selection, they loose quality, they loose customer service, and eventually they loose out financially because of the poor product quality. "Mom and pop shops" tend to carry more expensive products that are better and longer lasting. In the long run you end up with a better buy, though the initial investment is much higher. People don't see long term, same reason the credit companies are doing so well, and they run to Walmart where everything is half the price. They don't realize the products are less than half the quality and will have to replace it much sooner.

Exactly what I was going to say.

For example, I bought a bike at Wal Mart a few years ago, and the bike is ok, but the components are crap. The suspension is too soft (I have tried tuning it), the derailleurs are just plain afwul (I have to tune them often) and one of my sprockets bent, making the transition from 2nd to 3rd gear extremeley difficult. And I don't ride my bike very hard at all, this is a mountain bike and all I do with it is ride on sidewalks. I would hate to see what would happen to the bike if a good rider pushed the bike to it's limits on a real mountain bike trail. The bike is very useable, but I could have got a much, much better bike from a real bike shop. And got the service to boot if there were any problems with the bike.

That was the last time I ever bought anything at Wal Mart.

 

[LoudMusic]

Let me take a moment ...​

I'd like to point out that I am not against Wal-Mart. I actually think what they're doing is a pretty good thing. In business terms it makes a heck of a lot of sense. Buy in massive bulk so you can lower your pricess. Everyone wins! Well, again we have the problem that uneducated people loose because they don't fully understand what's going on. Yes it's their own fault, yes they should know better, but Wal-Mart isn't helping them. The Waltons get richer, society gets screwed over.

What was it someone said about the aristocrats paying for everything?

 

[milefile]

I buy cat litter at Walmart. And Toiletries. Things any other store simply charges more for. A 10" fan is the same at the mom and pop hardware store as it is at Walmart, but it's half as much at Walmart. I'd never go to Walmart for a TV or anything like that. Anyone who does wouldn't pay for what the high-end stores sell with or without Walmart.

 

[LoudMusic]

There are a lot of identical products Wal-Mart sells that everyone else sells. It's not like Wal-Mart's Sony PlayStation 2 is any different from anyone else's, but their price is the same on those products anyway.

It's the products that are not identical. Kitty litter is a really dumb example. You're paying for a bag of dirt. But a 10" fan from Wal-Mart is not going to be the same as a store that sells nothing but home appliances. Or if it is, it's the cheap version of what they sell, and the store staff are going to tell you that.

I've refrained from mentioning this thus far because your knowledge of this fact will make me seem bias, but I assure you I've had this opinion of Wal-Mart for well over a decade.

My parents own The Kitchen Store in Conway, Arkansas. They sell high-end kitchen utensiles and supplies along with gourmet coffees and such. You can go to Wal-Mart and get a $50 set of pots and pans that will last you two years, or you can go to my parents' store and get a $400 set of pots and pans that will last you your entire life. That is the difference. And the general public doesn't see the long term. They weren't taught how to shop for the future. They were taught how to get what you want right now. They can't afford $400, but they can afford $50. So that's where they go.

 

[milefile]

My parents own The Kitchen Store in Conway, Arkansas. They sell high-end kitchen utensiles and supplies along with gourmet coffees and such. You can go to Wal-Mart and get a $50 set of pots and pans that will last you two years, or you can go to my parents' store and get a $400 set of pots and pans that will last you your entire life. That is the difference. And the general public doesn't see the long term. They weren't taught how to shop for the future. They were taught how to get what you want right now. They can't afford $400, but they can afford $50. So that's where they go.

But where do twenty-somethings who need something to boil water in go? I agree with you about paying for what you get. But it doesn't apply to everything. I still don't have $400.00 pots and pans. But the set I do have will last me until I can afford better ones. I have only purchased one TV in my entire life because I won't settle for crap. I have only purchased one stereo in my life because I will not settle for junk, and it was used at a high end stereo store. Both are old, but both are still great and will last a long time. When I do replace them I will do my homework, shop around at the specialty stores that sell what I want, and still look for the best deal. And that will hopefully be this winter for the TV

Cheap stuff has it's place. And my cheap fan is keeping me cool just fine as I write this. If I have to spend another ten bucks in a year I got my money's worth.

 

[///M-Spec]

Wrong - they loose selection, they loose quality, they loose customer service, and eventually they loose out financially because of the poor product quality. "Mom and pop shops" tend to carry more expensive products that are better and longer lasting. In the long run you end up with a better buy, though the initial investment is much higher. People don't see long term, same reason the credit companies are doing so well, and they run to Walmart where everything is half the price. They don't realize the products are less than half the quality and will have to replace it much sooner.
...
I'd like to point out that I am not against Wal-Mart. I actually think what they're doing is a pretty good thing. In business terms it makes a heck of a lot of sense. Buy in massive bulk so you can lower your pricess. Everyone wins! Well, again we have the problem that uneducated people loose because they don't fully understand what's going on. Yes it's their own fault, yes they should know better, but Wal-Mart isn't helping them. The Waltons get richer, society gets screwed over.

That's quite a sweeping generalization that I don't really believe is accurate. Buying at Wal-Mart nessessarily means you lose selection? Quality? Service?

The vast majority of products that Wal-Mart sells is mass-produced items. It is inherant in their business model. Bounty paper towels is Bounty paper towels no matter where you buy it. Yestarday I went to Wal-Mart to buy my copy of the Star Wars trilogy on DVD. It is same set of DVDs no matter where I buy them except that it was cheaper at Wal-Mart. (actually, it was cheaper at Best Buy, except I didn't want to drive across town to get it)

Tell me I'm somehow "screwing myself" over by paying 44 bucks at Wal-Mart instead of list price ($60) at Mom and Dad's Music and Movie Store. As far as service is concerned, why would I care? It's a box of DVDs sitting on a shelf. I don't need any service, I just want pay for it and get it the hell home so I can watch it.

Besides which I have a problem with your other notion: that you somehow are in a better position to determine what to do with my money than I am. Don't you think that's a little presumptious?


M

 

[LoudMusic]

Yeah, cheap stuff has its place, for sure. But I still say that Wal-Mart is doing more to hurt communities than to help them. People simply don't realize what they're buying. And often treat it as if they expect it to be great stuff when it's not.

My biggest gripe with Wal-Mart isn't the store at all, but the majority of people who shop there. Keep in mind I live in small town Arkansas, so things are different here. But it blows my mind to see who shops there ... how they shop there, and what they're buying. Generally when I go ... away from my house ... I try to be clean and presentable. Most people shopping at Wal-Mart couldn't care less. To try it out one day I finished mowing three or four yards, covered head to toe with grass stuck to my sweatty body and smelling like I just birthed a cow or something. I got no strange looks and I actually felt as though I "fit in".

The cleanliness of the whole store is ... nearly none existant. The food section has large stains from where messes were left unattended ... or there are messes left unattended! Then in other section not related to anything consumable I'll find myself sticking to the floor for unexplicable reasons. I do not enjoy this during my shopping experience.

It's all do to Wal-Marts "price cutting" business practice. They're doing everything as cheaply as possible so they can attract as many customers as possible. Cramming more people in a smaller space is not a good idea.

 

[ExigeEvan]

plasma, not LCD

Plasma only last half aslong, and can you imagine how hot the room would get with a 60inch one! Better Idea, ask Josh if he has one.

 

[LoudMusic]

That's quite a sweeping generalization that I don't really believe is accurate. Buying at Wal-Mart nessessarily means you lose selection? Quality? Service?

The vast majority of products that Wal-Mart sells is mass-produced items. It is inherant in their business model. Bounty paper towels is Bounty paper towels no matter where you buy it. Yestarday I went to Wal-Mart to buy my copy of the Star Wars trilogy on DVD. It is same set of DVDs no matter where I buy them except that it was cheaper at Wal-Mart. (actually, it was cheaper at Best Buy, except I didn't want to drive across town to get it)

Tell me I'm somehow "screwing myself" over by paying 44 bucks at Wal-Mart instead of list price ($60) at Mom and Dad's Music and Movie Store. As far as service is concerned, why would I care? It's a box of DVDs sitting on a shelf. I don't need any service, I just want pay for it and get it the hell home so I can watch it.

Besides which I have a problem with your other notion: that you somehow are in a better position to determine what to do with my money than I am.

Well I already responded to these comments earlier, but if you're talking about a product that is identical to another store's product, it isn't necessarily going to be cheaper at Wal-Mart - you pointed this out yourself with Best-Buy.

It's the "Wal-Mart" products that you loose quality on. It's the same with Kroger Brand foods. They're like half the price, but the quality isn't quite there.

Don't you think that's a little presumptious?

No.

 

[TwinTurboJay]

If you can afford a 60" plasma, you can afford central air

 

[LoudMusic]

If you can afford a 60" plasma, you can afford central air

I couldn't find a quick price for a 60", but I found a Phillips 50" for $5,700. I was a bit surprised by that, but it is from Best Buy. There must have been a huge price cut in plasma in the past year or so.

I still think LCD is the way to go.

 

[LoudMusic]

crazy long link to Sony 61" Plasma for $20,000 ... that's more like it (: However, you can get a Sony 70" rear projection LCD for $7,000. It's a foot or so deeper, but come on! You could buy THREE for the same price! And it's bigger! And has longer life and better picture quality!

 

[///M-Spec]

Well I already responded to these comments earlier, but if you're talking about a product that is identical to another store's product, it isn't necessarily going to be cheaper at Wal-Mart - you pointed this out yourself with Best-Buy.

It's the "Wal-Mart" products that you loose quality on. It's the same with Kroger Brand foods. They're like half the price, but the quality isn't quite there.

We're getting away from the original topic, of which Wal-Mart is simply an example. We could have this same coversation about Best Buy or Sears or even about Ford or Microsoft.

This isn't about whether or not Wal-Mart is a good place to shop. It isn't about the virtues of quality products. It is about why it is "wrong" for a larger company to provide products and services for a lower price, thus beating the 'little guys'. Evo's original comment was very clear.

This notion makes no sense to me. It's like saying a slower car should win a race because the faster car makes competition "unfair". Someone explain how this idea is even rational.

No.

Sorry, but you are wrong. People make bad decisions, certainly. But it is not up to you to tell people how to spend their money. I don't have a set of $400 pots. Are you going to tell me I'm a fool?

Should people simply wait until they can afford the best possible product before they buy? Do you practice what you preach? How much is your house? Car? Are you going to save up until you can afford a $300,000 Rolls Royce so it will last you the rest of your life? If someone buys a Saturn, are they a fool because they got something cheap and disposable?


M

 

[LoudMusic]

We're getting away from the original topic, of which Wal-Mart is simply an example. We could have this same coversation about Best Buy or Sears or even about Ford or Microsoft.

No, this is about where the world will be in 50 years. Someone else chose to tell me that my idea of the future is wrong, which led to arguing about Wal-Mart.

This isn't about whether or not Wal-Mart is a good place to shop. It isn't about the virtues of quality products. It is about why it is "wrong" for a larger company to provide products and services for a lower price, thus beating the 'little guys'. Evo's original comment was very clear.

This notion makes no sense to me. It's like saying a slower car should win a race because the faster car makes competition "unfair". Someone explain how this idea is even rational.

The race is about the car instead of the driver. How is that fair?

Sorry, but you are wrong. People make bad decisions, certainly. But it is not up to you to tell people how to spend their money. I don't have a set of $400 pots. Are you going to tell me I'm a fool?

YOU FOOL!

Should people simply wait until they can afford the best possible product before they buy? Do you practice what you preach? How much is your house? Car? Are you going to save up until you can afford a $300,000 Rolls Royce so it will last you the rest of your life? If someone buys a Saturn, are they a fool because they got something cheap and disposable?

M

Yes I do practice what I preach. There is a quote and a saying that I like very much.

"Only the best is good enough" -- Lego President from the 90s ... don't know his name. He was talking about the products his company produced, but it works from the consumers' standpoint as well. A bit over zealous, but gets the point across.

And my grandfather used to say that spending money on inferior products is like throwing your money away. You're going to have to replace them soon, and you've only wasted money. You're better off to save until you can afford something worth having.

I am 26 years old and own a 2,500 square foot house. I waited until I could afford something more than an appartment sized house. Not necessarily the right plan, or the best plan, but it works great for me. I also have a `93 Accord with 186,000 miles on it. It will last much longer than a Saturn, and save me thousands of dollars in the process. Though it did cost more up front. I bought a Dewalt cordless drill / driver instead of a Black & Decker because it will last me until I tear the hell out of it. Yes it cost more than the B&D, but it'll last a hell of a lot longer as well. And I had to save a few months to afford it, but it's worth it.

It's called economics. And consumer education. Which brings me to another point, which I've also already mentioned. Mom and pop shops educate their customers. My parents and their employees aren't always looking to make a sale. They're trying to make the customer happy. If they can tell that the customer might not be able to afford that $400 set of Scanpan, they'll educate them on ways to work toward it, or offer them alternatives in the mean time. (which by the way can be a difficult situation to estimate a persons' financial standing). Wal-Mart, not so much. They don't give a rip who you are. They just want you buying more stuff.

 

[///M-Spec]

No, this is about where the world will be in 50 years. Someone else chose to tell me that my idea of the future is wrong, which led to arguing about Wal-Mart.

Wasn't me. I was just de-bunking futurists in general. Evo's post made me go off on the Wal-Mart tangent.

YOU FOOL!

Yea, yea. Sorry, but I have better things to buy than $400 pots and pans. I like to buy quality things, but there's a cost-benefit ratio analysis here that I ain't buying into.

Yes I do practice what I preach. There is a quote and a saying that I like very much.

"Only the best is good enough" -- Lego President from the 90s ... don't know his name. He was talking about the products his company produced, but it works from the consumers' standpoint as well. A bit over zealous, but gets the point across.

And my grandfather used to say that spending money on inferior products is like throwing your money away. You're going to have to replace them soon, and you've only wasted money. You're better off to save until you can afford something worth having.

Alright then. You'd better be saving up for a $135k Mercedes SL600 instead of a cheap, $30k POS Honda S2000.

It's called economics. And consumer education. Which brings me to another point, which I've also already mentioned. Mom and pop shops educate their customers. My parents and their employees aren't always looking to make a sale. They're trying to make the customer happy. If they can tell that the customer might not be able to afford that $400 set of Scanpan, they'll educate them on ways to work toward it, or offer them alternatives in the mean time. (which by the way can be a difficult situation to estimate a persons' financial standing). Wal-Mart, not so much. They don't give a rip who you are. They just want you buying more stuff.

As opposed to your folks, who don't want you to buy anything??


M

 

[LoudMusic]

Back to my original post - world population on the rise http://www.prb.org/Content/Navigati...ation/Population_Growth/Population_Growth.htm

Yes disease will run rampant. And no the increased population will not be handled by increased supply of doctors because the doctors don't live with the population is increasing.

How often do you hear about people moving to or vacationing in Africa or South America? Not nearly as often as Europe or North America. People who can afford to go to those places don't want to go to those places. That's for a reason.

 

[LoudMusic]

Wasn't me. I was just de-bunking futurists in general. Evo's post made me go off on the Wal-Mart tangent.

Well, fooy on him. Damn thread hijacker.

Yea, yea. Sorry, but I have better things to buy than $400 pots and pans. I like to buy quality things, but there's a cost-benefit ratio analysis here that I ain't buying into.

Of course! We all do. But Wal-Mart thinks everyone should have cheap crap because they have a higher profit margine on that. And they're sure not going to tell the consumers.

Alright then. You'd better be saving up for a $135k Mercedes SL600 instead of a cheap, $30k POS Honda S2000.

Working on it. Heh. But not Mercedes. I don't want a car named after some rich dude's spoiled daughter. That's a bad idea. And who said it had anything to do with how much you can spend? It's about cost-benefit ratios, remember? (:

As opposed to your folks, who don't want you to buy anything??


M

They don't want their customers buying things they can't afford. They won't come back and buy more! If they leave smarter, they leave happier. Happier means they had a good experience at the Kitchen Store. Ah, good experience ... Kitchen Store ... lets go back there!

 

[Sage]

Why is everyone saying hybrid cars are the future?
Isn't hydrogen energy a much more clean and viable solution?

No (at least not yet, but I personally think it'll never be). Forming pure hydrogen takes electricity, and that electricity has to be produced somehow (fossil fuels to the, *ahem*, rescue!).

I'd be interested in seeing diesel hybrids. Any takers?

 

[Bahbo]

In 50 years, there will be robot wives that don't piss and moan.