iPhones replacing your Doctor

[KSaiyu]

Research from the Antibiotics thread led me to this discussion. In the midst of reading about "poo transplants" I stumbled on this post, with the provacative title: "Will computers replace doctors in 25 years time?"

Standout excerpts from the linked lecture were observations by Dr David Eddy showing the unacceptably high variance of "expert" opinion on certain diseases/procedures (one found an estimate on the chance of rupture from breast reconstructive surgery ranging from 0 - 100%), and a quote from Peter Diamandis:

“In the future, you will have the data and the data analysis to become the CEO of your own health.”

By giving physicians such power over your health, you add a whole other clutch of variables into clinical decision making made on your behalf, ignoring the limitations of a human mind compared to algorithms and instant access to data. Professional interests, financial interests, legal considerations and the pressure to have something to offer from patients and families can cloud impartial thought and give a machine the upper hand before even consulting the latest evidence based guidelines.

Here in the UK I believe we're seeing the grass shoots of an increasing responsibility for our health - with nurses debating charging a tenner for GP appointments (shot down by a 9/10 majority, but put forward none-the-less) and the introdcution of Shared Decision Aids. The ALLHAT trial is a reminder that new doesn't necessarily mean good, and should be used as a reminder that perhaps the public should be given easier, more digestible access to impartial advice on their treatment.

The original post however makes a great point however, and that is this is only really focussing on diagnosis - a component of medicine but not the full-stop point of what a doctor offers.

Where do you see the future of your healthcare headed?

 

[Omnis]

Computers won't replace doctors in 25 years. Otherwise, we'd have a global gluten pandemic.

 

[Carbonox]

No thanks. To whoever thinks this is a good idea, keep your fancy technologies. I have never heard of an iPod who has a PhD, or any kind of qualifications in the first place.

 

[KSaiyu]

Computers won't replace doctors in 25 years. Otherwise, we'd have a global gluten pandemic.

No, but is it so hard to imagine more areas traditionally associated with a doctor being replaced? For instance, one of the most reassuring visits I had to an A+E department involved no face to face time with doctors - a nurse practitioner saw me after a nurse triaged me.

 

[sumbrownkid]

I think people would be uncomfortable with the idea that a robot or program would do all the medical work for them, especially in intensive procedures like surgery.

I mean airliners are coming to a point in raw processing power that they can take off, land, and even go the gate themselves, but we still like the pilot to be at the helm.

 

[Omnis]

No, but is it so hard to imagine more areas traditionally associated with a doctor being replaced? For instance, one of the most reassuring visits I had to an A+E department involved no face to face time with doctors - a nurse practitioner saw me after a nurse triaged me.

By PAs and ARNPs? Sure. By your iphone? Ehh... not so soon.

 

[Blitz24]

I do not want to imagine a colon exam given by a robot, much less a doctor.

 

[Omnis]

You'd rather doc use his hands?

 

[sumbrownkid]

You'd rather doc use his hands?

Well a doc's hand will certainly be more comfortable than a rigid metallic thing up my bum.

 

[Omnis]

I'll stick with the colonoscope, thanks.

 

[Tornado]

I'd rather they get on iPhones replacing the idiots that work at my local McDonald's first.

 

[Grayfox]

The iphone says you have 3 months to live due to tumors.
When you just have a minor issue.

Lets face it, it will happen after all it sends people into oceans or runways with its apple maps.

 

[TenEightyOne]

The iphone says you have 3 months to live due to tumors.
When you just have a minor issue.

Lets face it, it will happen after all it sends people into oceans or runways with its apple maps.

Which is the problem with people using tech to replace qualified intuition/investigation rather than to augment it.

It's not different from diagnosing oneself using magazine articles or home medical dictionaries. Or on the advice of the old woman at the corner shop, or someone at work whose brother's neighbours milkman had the same problem etc. etc.

 

[Blitz24]

You'd rather doc use his hands?

Because the sharp implement by a robot could be selected instead and kill me.

 

[Xilor]

The whole point of sensationalist articles like this is to catch people's attention and garner views.

Get robots to do basic tasks like prepare burgers at McDonald's or vacuum the floor before appointing them as our private drivers or doctors.

 

[KSaiyu]

We've gone from a trained medical professional needing to assess a patients situation to a simplicity that even a child could operate one.

 

[BobK]

We've gone from a trained medical professional needing to assess a patients situation to a simplicity that even a child could operate one.

Like this?

 

[SniperRed3]

I don't know if this is common everywhere else but locally we have a problem with "oh I grazed my finger better go A&E people". My family only goes to A&E in true emergencies. The last time I went to A&E was when my brother completely crushed his little toe, we were there for 4 hours before we saw anyone. Sat in a room full of people that didn't remotely look as in pain as my little brother. The other day my little sister had another febrile convulsion. We managed to catch the warning signs in time to prevent it and the next day we went to our local GP to report it. There is multiple people who spend their life visiting the gp to a point where the doctors tell them to grow a pair and send them on their way. Having technology to replace doctors is stupid. However using technology to inform people about first aid and such things. I've learned tons of things from my parents in regards to first aid and warning signs. I'm fortunate, half the kids I've grown up around don't know the first thing about first aid. Anyway, I could burst into multiple stories but I'll spare you all.

 

[Zenith]

We've gone from a trained medical professional needing to assess a patients situation to a simplicity that even a child could operate one.

Are you kidding me? The skills to use a defibrillator and the skills to be a doctor are on entirely different tiers of aptitude.

Tornado said it best. If we haven't replaced fast food workers, then we're decades away from replacing doctors. It is a skill based career.

I understand that most people see the modern doctor as walking pill dispensers, but this is ridiculous.

 

[Omnis]

We've gone from a trained medical professional needing to assess a patients situation to a simplicity that even a child could operate one.

You don't need to be a medical professional to do CPR. Have you ever done CPR? It's :censored:ing hard. And you could be doing it for half an hour before the medics arrive and hook up a lifepak. The AED does not replace CPR.

 

[Omnis]

Quickly: use your iphone to tell me what's wrong with this patient:

(But don't cheat and reverse image search it.)

 

[SniperRed3]

There is no collarbones!

 

[Omnis]

Rats! You got it. /ironicshrug.

 

[SniperRed3]

I used this rare method called looking at the picture and using common sense to deduce what was missing. Better than any Iphone.

 

[daan]

iPhones replacing your Doctor

What about those of us on Android?

 

[Furinkazen]

What about those of us on Android?

We're second class citizens.

 

[Liquid]

@daan Androids don't need doctors. Sheep, however, do.

 

[KSaiyu]

I don't know if this is common everywhere else but locally we have a problem with "oh I grazed my finger better go A&E people". My family only goes to A&E in true emergencies. The last time I went to A&E was when my brother completely crushed his little toe, we were there for 4 hours before we saw anyone. Sat in a room full of people that didn't remotely look as in pain as my little brother. The other day my little sister had another febrile convulsion. We managed to catch the warning signs in time to prevent it and the next day we went to our local GP to report it. There is multiple people who spend their life visiting the gp to a point where the doctors tell them to grow a pair and send them on their way. Having technology to replace doctors is stupid. However using technology to inform people about first aid and such things. I've learned tons of things from my parents in regards to first aid and warning signs. I'm fortunate, half the kids I've grown up around don't know the first thing about first aid. Anyway, I could burst into multiple stories but I'll spare you all.

Yep, it's a genuine problem that a lot of people don't know the difference between Urgent Care Centres and A+E. Who would have thought they'd just need to figure out what the A and E meant..

Are you kidding me? The skills to use a defibrillator and the skills to be a doctor are on entirely different tiers of aptitude.

Tornado said it best. If we haven't replaced fast food workers, then we're decades away from replacing doctors. It is a skill based career.

I understand that most people see the modern doctor as walking pill dispensers, but this is ridiculous.

Didn't read the OP?

You don't need to be a medical professional to do CPR. Have you ever done CPR? It's :censored:ing hard. And you could be doing it for half an hour before the medics arrive and hook up a lifepak. The AED does not replace CPR.

You never have needed a medical professional for CPR. I was showing a defibrillator. Can you show me an ECG showing a shockable and unshockable rhythm? The correct paddle placement? In the past you would have needed a medical professional, or someone trained in ALS. Now you have an AED....

-------

Quick "case study" to illustrate where I was heading in my original post (and I'm afraid you can't reverse image search this one). A friend (woman, 20s) repeatedly went to the doctors complaining of UTI, and during the course of a few months saw 3 different doctors. The first two saw her and straight off the bat prescribed Trimethoprin 200 mg. One actually let her walk out the door and fill out her prescription before calling and switching to Cefalexin (the other changed her mind at the end of the consultation, giving Amoxicillin instead). The last gave her Trimethoprin to use prophylactically in future, but ONLY after a thorough consultation and detailed history and assurances on future behaviour. Can you think of the questions the last doctor asked, and why the first two were wrong to prescribe so quickly?

 

[SniperRed3]

You never have needed a medical professional for CPR. I was showing a defibrillator. Can you show me an ECG showing a shockable and unshockable rhythm? The correct paddle placement? In the past you would have needed a medical professional, or someone trained in ALS. Now you have an AED....

In Air Cadets Aged 13 I learned to use one of those defibrillator

 

[Joey D]

I'm currently working on the technology to make this possible to some degree.

Phones or computers won't replace a doctor anytime soon, however they will cut down on doctor office visits. E-visits will start to become more common over the next few years and will leave office visits for actual physical examinations instead of follow up visits where the doctor just asks you a handful of questions or goes over your lab results. This will also help people who don't have adequate access to providers due to geographical location to be able to connect with a physician easier.

Right now there's no plans that I know of to have phones or computers completely take over the healthcare process, any good health system wouldn't push for it either since the provider/patient relationship is still needed for proper care.