Is ABS Weak better than ABS default?

  • Thread starter Sander 001
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ABS Weak is better for realism and better for fun (in my opinion), more instability while braking hard.

ABS Default is better for Lap-times, more effective braking and less tyre overheating than Abs-Weak in order to keep a good grip while cornering.
 
As far as i know weak abs is only good for unstable n class cars. Some cars tends to lose their control while braking but if you adjust it to weak they dont lose their control.
 
In the last update PD changed something with the braking parameters. Before that ABS off was extremely difficult to drive, now it seems much more manageable. I have not had time to spend working with ABS off because my wheel is off getting repaired right now. I use a Fanatec CSL Elite and V3 load cell pedals.
 
I tested it (again) after reading some comments in the 1.32 physics thread. DS user

ABS off - It's fun, but without the proper feel and feedback, it's completely useless with a controller. Lockup occurs at very small amounts of input. If there was a brake force slider, I'd turn it all the way down. Brake balance didn't matter. It's definitely not as fun as earlier GT's in this department. As it is, I'm not sure why it's even an option due to it's uselessness.

ABS Weak -This is a little longer story. I broke myself yesterday trying to use ABS Weak.

I tested with the (Gr3) Huracan and 650. At first, I REALLY like it. Both cars were more stable in corners. So much so, that I had to turn the brake balance fro -3 to -2 to get proper pace out of them. With tire wear off, I might even stick to ABS weak! With both cars, I got to +0.1 second of my fastest lap with ABS Default. I was a little surprised by this given the additional stability, but ABS weak makes braking inconsistent and I found I was too slow. I had four races at Suzuka with it. With tire wear on, it's a nightmare. Braking distance is all over the place. If you brake a little too soon, your stopping distance is WAY to short and you end up parked before the corner. Brake a little later, and you easily lock up and go wide. Release to stop the lock up, and again, it's like an anchor. The worst part though is that after racing with it, I was useless with ABS default. I had to relearn everything. I did so poorly during and after the test that I dropped from A+ back to A through sheer awful performance alone. It might take some doing to get that back.

ABS Default - The cars felt worse. They were both back to being loose. BB had to be set to -3 again for both cars. However, it is undeniably faster.

After REALLY paying attention, what I believe is happening is that ABS default is more of a brake usage assistant, applying more or less brake as needed so you can apply the same amount of pressure and making the braking more consistent, where as ABS weak leaves you the player to decide how much braking you need to apply. It's like the CSA for brakes. I am also pretty sure that it's helping you hold a line with some stability management, which could explain why the cars are more slippery.

I have to say though, the difference between how those cars handled was NIGHT and DAY. So much so that I am now torn as to whether to stick to ABS default for the pace, or try to get better at ABS weak for the stability.

As with ABS off, if there was a brake force slider, I think ABS weak would be better.
 
Voodoovaj
I tested it (again) after reading some comments in the 1.32 physics thread. DS user

ABS off - It's fun, but without the proper feel and feedback, it's completely useless with a controller. Lockup occurs at very small amounts of input. If there was a brake force slider, I'd turn it all the way down. Brake balance didn't matter. It's definitely not as fun as earlier GT's in this department. As it is, I'm not sure why it's even an option due to it's uselessness.

ABS Weak -This is a little longer story. I broke myself yesterday trying to use ABS Weak.

I tested with the (Gr3) Huracan and 650. At first, I REALLY like it. Both cars were more stable in corners. So much so, that I had to turn the brake balance fro -3 to -2 to get proper pace out of them. With tire wear off, I might even stick to ABS weak! With both cars, I got to +0.1 second of my fastest lap with ABS Default. I was a little surprised by this given the additional stability, but ABS weak makes braking inconsistent and I found I was too slow. I had four races at Suzuka with it. With tire wear on, it's a nightmare. Braking distance is all over the place. If you brake a little too soon, your stopping distance is WAY to short and you end up parked before the corner. Brake a little later, and you easily lock up and go wide. Release to stop the lock up, and again, it's like an anchor. The worst part though is that after racing with it, I was useless with ABS default. I had to relearn everything. I did so poorly during and after the test that I dropped from A+ back to A through sheer awful performance alone. It might take some doing to get that back.

ABS Default - The cars felt worse. They were both back to being loose. BB had to be set to -3 again for both cars. However, it is undeniably faster.

After REALLY paying attention, what I believe is happening is that ABS default is more of a brake usage assistant, applying more or less brake as needed so you can apply the same amount of pressure and making the braking more consistent, where as ABS weak leaves you the player to decide how much braking you need to apply. It's like the CSA for brakes. I am also pretty sure that it's helping you hold a line with some stability management, which could explain why the cars are more slippery.

I have to say though, the difference between how those cars handled was NIGHT and DAY. So much so that I am now torn as to whether to stick to ABS default for the pace, or try to get better at ABS weak for the stability.

As with ABS off, if there was a brake force slider, I think ABS weak would be better.
Click to expand...

When using the Fanatec V3 load cell pedals not only do you have brake pedal pressure to give the driver feedback you also have the ability to use what is basically the brake force slider that you speak of. I can adjust my brake pressure setting from 0-100%, ie. with my "slider" at 100% my brake pedal works like the controller, very little pressure is a lot of stopping power, now I can adjust that down to only 1% so I have a very wide range of brake pressure "feel".
 
JayOTT
We're going to need some names here because ABS Off is ten times worse than ABS Weak for competitive reasons. It's so bad that I think the game should specifically outlaw attempting to run a sport mode race without ABS. You're at severe risk of becoming a missile in every braking zone because one mistake in brake pressure makes you skid straight on.

My experience with all three settings was actually the exact opposite of GTPorsche. Off was hopeless for a pad user like myself, whilst Weak would sometimes pull up quicker than Default but also make the car struggle on turn-in.
Click to expand...

lol if it's ten times worse with ABS OFF, I must be super good because I never needed it and I play with a DS4. With most cars, you just need to brake at 60/80% of the maximum braking power. In general, i notice I brake earlier than AI, but almost at the same time as humans.

On dragon trail last week I was only 3s slower than the best time, I use no help, I play with a DS4 and I have been playing for only 2-3 weeks. Of course if people think they can drive cars in GT sport like in GTA with x and □ with a ON/OFF braking and acceleration, they will have trouble playing without ABS, TCS, CSA, WTF.

I understand that when you play at the highest level you might want to ensure skipping the inevitable locked wheels that happens once a day, but I doubt most people in here are playing only to become the best in the world ?
 
The problem is with tire wear on.

When tire wear is off, you can become acclimated to the differences.

When I had ABS on weak, my laps times were less varied than with ABS default and I believe that I can be as fast. At Suzuka, my fastest lap was 2:00.216. My optimal was 1:59.6 (rounded) so there is quite a lot of time out on the track. I had some sections that were faster on ABS weak and some on ABS Default.

When tire wear is on, ABS weak is all over the place and inconsistent. If tire wear were more ubiquitous in the game, allowing everyone to acclimate easier, I believe ABS Weak cold be faster because of the stark in crease in stability. I am seriously considering sticking with it.
 
Definitely could use a brake pressure dial mapped to my TGT. If I had adjustability over the pressure as well as the balance, corner entry will certainly become more interesting...Shame we don't have this feature with the current physics model that seems to shine particularly under load/rotation conditions.

If you haven't tried abs off, try the e30 M3 on SH/SM and have fun with trailing into apex. You want to avoid coming on and off the brakes incessantly...challenging at first but it will come. Oh the fun of trying to melt into those corners...Adjust the brake bias to fine tune how the rear brakes come alive. Small rear lockups seems to feel best for rotation for me, but not ideal. The Gr4 Cayman is also a fine choice.

Again, shame we don't have this feature.
 
Voodoovaj
The problem is with tire wear on.

When tire wear is off, you can become acclimated to the differences.

When I had ABS on weak, my laps times were less varied than with ABS default and I believe that I can be as fast. At Suzuka, my fastest lap was 2:00.216. My optimal was 1:59.6 (rounded) so there is quite a lot of time out on the track. I had some sections that were faster on ABS weak and some on ABS Default.

When tire wear is on, ABS weak is all over the place and inconsistent. If tire wear were more ubiquitous in the game, allowing everyone to acclimate easier, I believe ABS Weak cold be faster because of the stark in crease in stability. I am seriously considering sticking with it.
Click to expand...

In GT4, it was not possible to remove ABS, and you could see the ABS indicator blinking when braking at the maximum power. As far as I remember, braking at the maximum (meaning, ABS was blinking) was also wearing the tyres faster, and it had a longer braking distance than 80% power braking.

I have not tested this in GT sport, so I assumed it was the same.

What would be the best way to test this ? SSX could work to estimate distance and time during a 400kmh to 0 stop depending on the ABS type, but for tyre wear I have no idea ?
 
gtpierre
In GT4, it was not possible to remove ABS, and you could see the ABS indicator blinking when braking at the maximum power. As far as I remember, braking at the maximum (meaning, ABS was blinking) was also wearing the tyres faster, and it had a longer braking distance than 80% power braking.

I have not tested this in GT sport, so I assumed it was the same.

What would be the best way to test this ? SSX could work to estimate distance and time during a 400kmh to 0 stop depending on the ABS type, but for tyre wear I have no idea ?
Click to expand...

In the beginning with my load cell pedals I wanted a longer brake pedal so I could impart more brake force but I discovered qualifying for dailys with the ghost turned on that my stopping distance was reduced using less brake pressure. It seems to be a very fine line to get maximum stopping without going over the limit and increasing stopping distance by relying on ABS too much, at least with a wheel, not sure about DS4 users. Probably the best place to test this is Fuji T1, the first sector is just 1 corner.
 
I have decided to make the switch.

It's hard to establish which is 'fastest" when we spend 99.9% of the time on one setting and a few laps on the other.

I'm definitely going to sacrifice DR for this, but I had already a plateau, so something needs to change is I intend to keep or improve my rating. Given that the cars are more stable, it SHOULD lead to faster laps if I am acclimated enough to the braking.

We shall see.

My fastest at Fuji this week was 1:31.4 on default. It's now 1:31.1 on weak.

Time will tell. It sure FEELS better which is why I am choosing to stick with it for now.
 
It'll be worth it. It's really a matter of skill which will absolutely increase as experience is gained. It even says in the description "...for more skilled players..." when you hover over "weak" in the ABS menu.
 
Oh fine then. I tried to spell it out so that people wouldn't make this error anymore. But sometimes people have to experience the hard facts for themselves before they'll believe it...
 
UPDATE: I have lost about 10000 DR points and currently sit at 43000, or mid pack A. Some of this is performance and some is the nature of Fuji.

First. ABS weak increases overall traction. Full stop (no pun intended). On ABS weak. all cars (so far) slide less and exit the corners better. The problem this causes is that they also do not rotate as freely. On ABS default, you can pitch a car into a corner and it somewhat aligns itself. So, I believe there is some kind of assistance happening that goes beyond just braking. Also, I believe there is a decrease in grip as a way to balance the cars between the two settings.

In order for ABS weak cars to handle (or at least pace) on par with an ABS default car, the brake balance needs to be set more rearward. Currently, I have found 1 step to be enough, but 2 may be necessary.

Braking distance is also somewhat shorter, which can be a little challenging to balance out. This is beneficial when passing up the inside a you can brake and release and brake again to adjust your position without completely blowing the corner. With ABS weak, you definitely need to apply brakes the way you would apply throttle, so with a more of squeeze than a quick press, and you need to release it a little as you apex.

I don't know so much about it being a more "skillful" setting, but it does give you more overall control over the car. I'm not a super fast guy, so given the time I leave out on track, I cannot say for certain that the increased control yields better time. As I mentioned above, ABS default is balanced against ABS weak, so either setup has it's faster sections. At Fuji, ABS default was better from turn 1 to the chicane because I could pitch the car at tight corners with a little more reckless abandon, giving me a track position advantage. ABS weak would gain on traction is the long sweeping turn 3, but it really came into it's own from the chicane to the last corner. The added grip made the chicane easier, made exiting the chicane better, was more stable and faster through the next few turns,and at the last turn, I could better aim the car at the apex, get on the throttle earlier, and exit with more traction, gain most of my time improvements over ABS default in that section.

As for tire wear, I am going to give the nod, very, very slightly to ABS weak. Moving the BB to the rear takes some load off the fronts and the (potentially) reduced number of slides seems to give it an edge as well. Seeing at ABS default has had it's grip reduced to balance it, the overall pace edge is likely going to be ABS default, but it's not definitive IMHO. I will stick with weak though because I do like the extra grip. I think I can work with that despite my current downward slump.

Here is my qualifying lap after sorting out the BB of +1 (I used 0 with default). I think I can do better because you can see that the grip is causing the car to be a little more tight than normal. This is a 1:30.8 lap.

 
Well I drive all the time on weak since Feb. last year.
On the last update I was on vacation for 1 month and now I'm back, not sure of the new physics are killing me or what but last week at Suzuka was so a major disaster(dr A-low to dr B-low-almost-C), I'm for sure going for default for some months now and see if that can help to brig back my old pace.
 
bedi1982
Well I drive all the time on weak since Feb. last year.
On the last update I was on vacation for 1 month and now I'm back, not sure of the new physics are killing me or what but last week at Suzuka was so a major disaster(dr A-low to dr B-low-almost-C), I'm for sure going for default for some months now and see if that can help to brig back my old pace.
Click to expand...

The grip changed. All of my cars had to be adjusted 1 step toward the rear. For instance, I went from -4 to -3 on my Huracan. With ABS weak, as I mention in my post, you need to adjust your brake balance by at least 1 more step toward the rear to increase rotation. My Huracan on weak is at -2.

The GTR on ABS default would be 0. On weak (in my video) I had to use +1
 
Voodoovaj
U
First. ABS weak increases overall traction. Full stop (no pun intended). On ABS weak. all cars (so far) slide less and exit the corners better. The problem this causes is that they also do not rotate as freely. On ABS default, you can pitch a car into a corner and it somewhat aligns itself. So, I believe there is some kind of assistance happening that goes beyond just braking. Also, I believe there is a decrease in grip as a way to balance the cars between the two settings.
Click to expand...

This makes no sense. Why would the ABS affect cornering grip while it is active only during braking ? Can you blind your testing?

You close your eyes while chosing which ABS mode you use, and you put something in front (a book or something) of the screen display, you drive 10 laps, check which mode you had, then average the lap times.
Repeat experiment several time until you have obtained the different ABS modes randomly.

If you are thinking "I have ABS weak, I have to brake more carefully" maybe you are changing your driving style and entering a bit slower in the turns (therefore it feels like more grip) and then you exit faster from the corners and you end up with slightly faster lap times ?

I did not test anything yet, I'm trying to understand how to go fast on interlagos, because it's the only track where I can not go faster than AI which is really not normal. (AI cars always use ABS btw)
 
gtpierre
This makes no sense. Why would the ABS affect cornering grip while it is active only during braking ? Can you blind your testing?
Click to expand...

Sigh..Why do people always want to deny stuff before trying it themselves?

Go ahead, turn it on, and see for yourself. Or don't, I don't care. I'm just providing my findings.

Why does it do this? Likely (as I stated) as a balancing device.

If you do try it, heed my advice to adjust your brake balance 1 step more rearward (so, if you are at 0, move to +1. If you are at -2 go to -1, etc.) regardless of the car. The fact that the adjustment is necessary should tell you all you need to know.
 
Voodoovaj
UPDATE: I have lost about 10000 DR points and currently sit at 43000, or mid pack A. Some of this is performance and some is the nature of Fuji.

First. ABS weak increases overall traction. Full stop (no pun intended). On ABS weak. all cars (so far) slide less and exit the corners better. The problem this causes is that they also do not rotate as freely. On ABS default, you can pitch a car into a corner and it somewhat aligns itself. So, I believe there is some kind of assistance happening that goes beyond just braking. Also, I believe there is a decrease in grip as a way to balance the cars between the two settings.

In order for ABS weak cars to handle (or at least pace) on par with an ABS default car, the brake balance needs to be set more rearward. Currently, I have found 1 step to be enough, but 2 may be necessary.

Braking distance is also somewhat shorter, which can be a little challenging to balance out. This is beneficial when passing up the inside a you can brake and release and brake again to adjust your position without completely blowing the corner. With ABS weak, you definitely need to apply brakes the way you would apply throttle, so with a more of squeeze than a quick press, and you need to release it a little as you apex.

I don't know so much about it being a more "skillful" setting, but it does give you more overall control over the car. I'm not a super fast guy, so given the time I leave out on track, I cannot say for certain that the increased control yields better time. As I mentioned above, ABS default is balanced against ABS weak, so either setup has it's faster sections. At Fuji, ABS default was better from turn 1 to the chicane because I could pitch the car at tight corners with a little more reckless abandon, giving me a track position advantage. ABS weak would gain on traction is the long sweeping turn 3, but it really came into it's own from the chicane to the last corner. The added grip made the chicane easier, made exiting the chicane better, was more stable and faster through the next few turns,and at the last turn, I could better aim the car at the apex, get on the throttle earlier, and exit with more traction, gain most of my time improvements over ABS default in that section.

As for tire wear, I am going to give the nod, very, very slightly to ABS weak. Moving the BB to the rear takes some load off the fronts and the (potentially) reduced number of slides seems to give it an edge as well. Seeing at ABS default has had it's grip reduced to balance it, the overall pace edge is likely going to be ABS default, but it's not definitive IMHO. I will stick with weak though because I do like the extra grip. I think I can work with that despite my current downward slump.

Here is my qualifying lap after sorting out the BB of +1 (I used 0 with default). I think I can do better because you can see that the grip is causing the car to be a little more tight than normal. This is a 1:30.8 lap.

Click to expand...

Nice post! Did you test it with any more cars yet or just Gr2 for now?
 
Voodoovaj
If you do try it, heed my advice to adjust your brake balance 1 step more rearward (so, if you are at 0, move to +1. If you are at -2 go to -1, etc.) regardless of the car.
Click to expand...

Definitely not an universal thing, this. My two most driven time trial cars, an N400 R32 GT-R and an N300 GT40 both on Sports Softs, responded completely differently when going from Default to Weak. The GT-R originally had its brake balance set to +5 for more braking manoeuvrability and it became an absolute nightmare with that value at ABS Weak, necessitating +3 to behave properly and still tending to rotate more than desired. The GT40 on the other hand had -1 when on Default but even at +5 on Weak it still understeered far too much to my liking.
 
Sander 001
Why did having brakes slightly on improve acceleration and top speed?

These things make no sense in real world physics. But they are easily applicable in video game engines.
Click to expand...

Wait. Is that a thing ?

Also I think my answer is misunderstood. When I say it makes no sense, I mean "why would PD make an ABS that is active even when you are not braking, this makes no sense"
 
gtpierre
Wait. Is that a thing ?

Also I think my answer is misunderstood. When I say it makes no sense, I mean "why would PD make an ABS that is active even when you are not braking, this makes no sense"
Click to expand...

Yes, until update 1.32 you could shim your brake on so that the ABS light would come on but the brake didn’t engage and it would make cars faster, some significantly and others not as much.
 
gtpierre
Wait. Is that a thing ?

Also I think my answer is misunderstood. When I say it makes no sense, I mean "why would PD make an ABS that is active even when you are not braking, this makes no sense"
Click to expand...

The short answer is balance. If they don't add a balancing factor, then ABS default would be over powered.

Groundfish
Definitely depends on car.
Click to expand...

Yes, the more I play with it, the more I find this to be the case.

Here is the GR2 NSX. Pre 1.32 BB for ABS default was -4. This lap was set at -1 (fyi, previous laps were from me playing with 0. In this lap, I returned to -1).

1:30.7




One definitive finding is the the notion of ABS Default being absolutely faster probably comes from comparing them on the same BB. They require different BB and they each (default v weak) have their own benefits and detractors. I would be very hesitant to say default is always fastest.
 

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