Is it ever quicker to drift a corner?

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ikarys

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ikarys
I know all my fast laps generally have as little sliding as possible.

Is it ever quicker to drift a corner?

If so, what type of corners, and what drive trains?
 
I'm no expert, but it might also depend on car. Maybe some of the understeery cars might benefit from making them drift in the corner? Also older race cars seemed to drift quite a lot but that might be just because the tire technology of the time.
 
I've heard, drifting and using the handbrake a bit in very tight - 180° or so - corners in Rallies is the quickest way, they are all doing it for that reason. F1, JGT, DTM, LM and other series avoid it. It looks great and spectators love it, but it makes you slow.
 
It can be faster under the right circumstances. I've personally seen some very fast autocross cars that spend a generous amount of time sideways. In general I'd say:

Drifting is usually most beneficial in slower, tighter corners.

It usually works better on cars with no downforce and poor grip.

The key to a fast drift is zero countersteer. That means keeping the wheel more or less straight and steering the car mostly with the throttle. If you're applying huge amounts of countersteer Formula D style then you're probably losing time.
 
Depends on the car/surface. I find its quicker to drift my stock Lotus Elan(small angles of course). This is because the car will slide quite easily, you have to drive quite slowly to prevent the car sliding, so I just let it drift(the handling is fantastic, I think the best in GT5)

edit: ^as above. Maybe small amount of opposite lock:)
 
Now that i think about it it is beneficial to let the car slide slightly. The tires get the max traction within their optimal slip percentage and angle (according to Speed Secrets this is usually in the range of 3-10% and 6-10 decree angle but i imagine this depends on the tire). I wouldn't call that drifting though as that conjures imeges of cars going in wide showy slides.

Edit: The book was written in 1998 and the tire technology might have gone quite far during this time. Still the basic idea of working the tires at the limit should still be true. Don't know how the tire model of the GT5 works though.
 
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Ok, another question.

Is it ever better to drift to finish a corner that you've taken too wide or narrow, or to slow down and return to the driving line?

Edit: I assume some turbo cars with high RPM spool, and low torque in the bottom rev range would benefit from not slowing.
 
kr0nika
Must be...I know for a fact that some of the license test times benefit greatly from sliding through corners.
Click to expand...

The reason on the license tests that sliding works so good is because SRF(skid recovery force) is on. The SRF function is despised by many racers on this forum. It changes the physics of the game, and in my view makes it more like an arcade racer. For some reason it is forced on for the license tests and the last set of bonus races. No one can seem to figure out the logic behind this.

My best answer to the OP about sliding and overall speed. It really depends on the following corners/straights. You will almost always have a lot more exit speed by grip driving then drifting. You might get through the initial part of the turn faster while drifting, but will be giving up massive amounts of time on the straight that follows this turn. I try to only drift the car slightly on the initial phases of a sharper turn. (to get it pointed toward the exit or apex of the turn faster) But I try to be under grip upon the end stages of the turn, because I want to be able to apply exit power as soon as possible.

Hope this helps

Edit: In reply to the post above. If you miss the apex of the turn and need braking/and or change of nose position of the vehicle, then yes, I sometimes slide the car. This is only to try and get back to the racing line as quickly as possible. But this is corrective of a mistake, and is obviously slower than taking the appropriate line from the start. It is quicker than crashing off the track.

I guess to better give an explanation of when I try to drift and when I don't. If I think I can increase my entry speed, without effecting my exit speed (and ability to exit with power), then yes I will slide. This happens on slow, tight, 180 degree turn(can be less or more degrees, really depends on the corner). Or if I can use the slide to accomplish two things at once. Using the slide to help slow the car to the neccessary speed while also getting the nose of the car pointed in the direction I need for corner entry/apex/exit. Even with these examples, it doesn't provide that much help, and when in doubt, I would definitely choose grip.
 
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Depends on the vehicle and the amount of yaw.

If the back end of the car comes around quickly in corners then it follows that you'll be pointing at the exit more quickly - if that suits your driving style.

Go-karts are slightly different, they don't accelerate too well (proportionately speaking) and therefore sliding allows the speed/revs to stay higher than if you putt-putted your way around the perfect line.
 
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the min you have opposite wheel lock you are going slower. you can get the back end out and still have the wheels (somewhat) straight and those are the turns when you are going the fastest you will ever go around that corner.
 
I can only speak for karting since I'm 14, but IRL, you never ever want to slide, drift, etc.
However, I've found that in rally events, more so kicking the back end out than drifting is effective. Yes they're the same thing, but...

You know what, I have no idea what I'm talking about.
Nevermind!
 
You will always go slower on racing circuit drifting round the corner that taking it properly

Rally on loose surfaces is different though
 
It can be quicker on the turn-in, but if the back end is still hanging a little out of the corner you are going to loose way more time then you gain from going into the corner with a little slip. The quickest way is usually the way that feels slowest i.e no slides, no understeer or oversteer. But in understeery cars it can be beneficial to attack a little to get the backend around, i do that in 4WD cars mostly, because you don't really get any wheelspin out of the corner, even if you are going a little sideways into the corner.
In tight hairpins, for instance the one in Monaco you can benefit from it, both because it is so tight, but also because there is no long straight following it, so if you get a little too much wheel spin you won't loose much time out of the corner anyway, and your tun-in will be improved. Of cause the "drifting" here is only a little slip, if you get any real smoke you are too aggressive, and will loose time.
 
ikarys
I know all my fast laps generally have as little sliding as possible.

Is it ever quicker to drift a corner?

If so, what type of corners, and what drive trains?
Click to expand...

Is it ever faster to drift? Yes.
Nine times out of ten though it will be slower on a road course.
In rally all bets are off and too many factors are in play to generalize one way or the other.
 
That was the reason why drifting was developed. IRC, I may be wrong, back in the days a Japanese racer was beating everyone with his AE86 by sliding around corners. Everyone followed suit. But again it depends, for production car drifting may be the fastest way to take corners but for race cars and F1s, holding the line is probably faster plus you have to factor tire type and track layout. But in GT5 I find I win races specially online if I power slide around corners with my awesome Mclaren F1 Stealth.
 
The only time I've noticed benefits from sliding in a normal race (and they might be imaginary benefits :) ) is with a car that has very poor handling but very high horsepower. I'll slide a bit going in so I can square off the exit; the quicker I have a straight line out, the quicker I can floor it.
 
I found that the first corner of the short version of the Nurburging (GP? The one in the X2010 challenge) is met well by keeping the brake balance near the rear and using it to kick the back end out as you go over the hump, as long as you don't floor it too early and smoke the rear tires, you can use it to gain a good second or two on the competition
 
Its slower to slide sideways because energy is wasted and momentum is lost moving the car sideways rather than moving it forward. Smoother is always faster except for non tarmac rally.

Although having said that there are some cars that respond well from using the accelerator to steer them if there is allot of understeer most musclecars are a good example of cars that can be driven in this way.
 
I always heard traction equals speed.

But it is true that alot of the liscence tests can be much easier by tapping the e-brake to point the car in the right direction.
 
On dirt/snow that is the best way to go fast.

On tarmac not exactly, however in an FR/MR/AWD car you can squeeze a little extra speed out of the latter half of the corner if it has a slight drift out the corner but that's just straight up inertia and momentum you're working with there. That's more of a powerslide then anything.

Corner entry drifting is only for exhibition and fun not speed.
 
I find that when going through certain turns, you can drift them faster. Other times, you need to stick your line and minimize sliding. Just about every turn I take I run a good line and never drift through it so it also depends on your own preference, and it also depends on the turn. That's what I think.
 
RDB
That was the reason why drifting was developed. IRC, I may be wrong, back in the days a Japanese racer was beating everyone with his AE86 by sliding around corners. Everyone followed suit. But again it depends, for production car drifting may be the fastest way to take corners but for race cars and F1s, holding the line is probably faster plus you have to factor tire type and track layout. But in GT5 I find I win races specially online if I power slide around corners with my awesome Mclaren F1 Stealth.
Click to expand...

Tsuchiya Keiichi, DoriKing!
 
Depends on the corner and car. Very tight hairpins can be negotiated more quickly if you can get the back end around and then regain traction when you're pointing the right way. If you're still sliding you're losing time. Mostly depends on how much the car would understeer if you were taking the turn keeping traction vs how much earlier you can stand on the throttle after a small drift.

Its the same idea as why you want the rear of a FF car to be able to rotate under braking/off throttle, to get the nose pointed out of the corner as quickly as possible to get back on the throttle.
 
Our racing instructor on Spa Francorchamps told us that when accelerating, about 30% wheelspin was the fastest way, and when cornering, about 5% 'slide' was the fastest way.

He also told us it was depending on how much downforce a car has.
If the car has lots of downforce, sliding should be kept to an absolute minimum.
If the car has no downforce, than that 5% sliding was about the most efficient way to drive.


But all this is not considered to be drifting.
True drifting cannot be faster than 'normal racing'.
Note: taking hairpins with a handbrake is not considered to be drifting....

Just for the fun of it: watch this!
Gruppe B rediculous cars :D Unlimited horsepower and no grip. Combined with idiots for audience.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lbrRLi8P7Ns

Gotta love it.
 

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