Is it true???

[DriftK7]

Ok so I just got my Sprinter Trueno GT-APEX '83, I haven't tried using it but I heard that Sprinter Trueno's drift good and drift by itself and you don't need handbreak for it? IS IT TRUE!!??!

 

[niky]

Moved to the proper section.

 

[Stavingo]

Ok so I just got my Sprinter Trueno GT-APEX '83, I haven't tried using it but I heard that Sprinter Trueno's drift good and drift by itself and you don't need handbreak for it? IS IT TRUE!!??!

You're not making much sense but I guess you don't have to use the handbrake to drift with it.

 

[twitcher]

Ok so I just got my Sprinter Trueno GT-APEX '83, I haven't tried using it but I heard that Sprinter Trueno's drift good and drift by itself and you don't need handbreak for it? IS IT TRUE!!??!

Umm ya, not sure what you mean here. No car will ever "drift by itself". The AE86s in GT5 make pretty good cars to start drifting with. Stock, they are kind of underpowered. Upgrade the HP, buy a customizable LSD, set it to either 5/60/60 or 60/60/60, buy comfort hard tires, turn all driver aids off, and you should have no trouble drifting it, even with stock suspension.

If you want to max out the potential of any car, you will have to buy a fully customizable suspension and fully customizable transmission, and tune them to your liking.

As far as not needing the e-brake....again, not sure what you are getting at. The e-brake is a tool that all drifters should be proficient at using in appropriate situations.

I'm actually quite confused as to why so many people look down on the e-brake?? I understand that it is not the most elegant way to initiate a drift. I also understand that in most situations, the most elegant way to execute a drift is without the e-brake (for no other reason than it looks sexier). But to me, drifting without the e-brake seems a little idealistic. The e-brake will always have a place in my drifting toolbox

 

[oppositelock]

Personally I think the ridiculous 60/40 weight distribution PD set for the AE86 (and most old standard cars) makes them less drift friendly than they really should be. I'd try to start with a car that's closer to 50/50.

 

[nawfal]

If you want something that drifts by itself, I guess you could use a CTR Yellow Bird

 

[twitcher]

Personally I think the ridiculous 60/40 weight distribution PD set for the AE86 (and most old standard cars) makes them less drift friendly than they really should be. I'd try to start with a car that's closer to 50/50.

I agree with this, PD kinda screwed up in this aspect...but you can always use ballast to get 50/50 weight distribution on most cars.

 

[GhostZ]

The sprinter can drift just fine without upgrades.

Most cars are difficult to drift without upgrades because the factory makes the suspension prone to understeer, and without tons of power it can be hard to start drifting. The AE86 is not like this, and it oversteers easily because of its nose-heavy nature. The 60/40 weight distribution makes it easier to drift than a 50/50 weight distribution. The same could be said of the 240ZG and the 280ZX in the game, both drift fine when stock, even on stock tires.

All FR cars, or at least most that haven't been given silly setups, will drift without the E-brake in the right scenario. You just need to use weight transfer to your advantage. The AE86 is fine enough at this when stock, so don't worry about upgrading it if you want to just learn the basics of drifting. The E-brake however can help you start a drift so you can learn to control it.

You can give tons of power to cars with low-grip tires, and of course you're going to spin the tires and maybe even drift it sideways (Aka, Yellowbird) but if you do that, fun as it is, it makes it a lot harder to learn the subtleties of weight transfer and control in drifting. Again, only a thing you need to worry about if you want to learn how to drift, rather than just drift.

 

[Gonales]

Personally I think the ridiculous 60/40 weight distribution PD set for the AE86 (and most old standard cars) makes them less drift friendly than they really should be. I'd try to start with a car that's closer to 50/50.

I agree with this, PD kinda screwed up in this aspect...but you can always use ballast to get 50/50 weight distribution on most cars.

I disagree. For me, a car that drifts should be tending to be heavier in the front. Better transitioning and control, for my personal preference. Plus the fact that when you go closer to 50/50 your handling will decrease, and only the speed of your drifting will increase.

 

[R34EVO9]

Ok so I just got my Sprinter Trueno GT-APEX '83, I haven't tried using it but I heard that Sprinter Trueno's drift good and drift by itself and you don't need handbreak for it? IS IT TRUE!!??!

To answer your question yes you can feint drift on inertia drift works extremely well with the car. but you have to know how to drive to control that car

 

[R34EVO9]

The sprinter can drift just fine without upgrades.

Most cars are difficult to drift without upgrades because the factory makes the suspension prone to understeer, and without tons of power it can be hard to start drifting. The AE86 is not like this, and it oversteers easily because of its nose-heavy nature. The 60/40 weight distribution makes it easier to drift than a 50/50 weight distribution. The same could be said of the 240ZG and the 280ZX in the game, both drift fine when stock, even on stock tires.

All FR cars, or at least most that haven't been given silly setups, will drift without the E-brake in the right scenario. You just need to use weight transfer to your advantage. The AE86 is fine enough at this when stock, so don't worry about upgrading it if you want to just learn the basics of drifting. The E-brake however can help you start a drift so you can learn to control it.

You can give tons of power to cars with low-grip tires, and of course you're going to spin the tires and maybe even drift it sideways (Aka, Yellowbird) but if you do that, fun as it is, it makes it a lot harder to learn the subtleties of weight transfer and control in drifting. Again, only a thing you need to worry about if you want to learn how to drift, rather than just drift.

thank you for saving me the trouble of writing all this lol

 

[twitcher]

I disagree. For me, a car that drifts should be tending to be heavier in the front. Better transitioning and control, for my personal preference. Plus the fact that when you go closer to 50/50 your handling will decrease, and only the speed of your drifting will increase.

I was not stating that 50/50 is the best weight distribution for drifting. I was simply saying that we have the ability to manipulate the weight distribution of the car through the ballast adjustment.

Also, I'm no expert, but I believe PD got the weight distribution of several car quite wrong, when compared to their real life counterparts. I have always been under the impression that the reason cars like the AE86, or the Silvias, were such great little sports cars (not just drift cars) with good handling characteristics is because they had fairly even weight distribution. This is not the only reason they have great handling (especially when compared to something like a Fox-body Mustang from the same era), but it certainly contributes to it.

I have a feelin that not only do the standard cars has sub-par graphics, they have sub-par physics models, compared to the premiums. I could be wrong though.

 

[Gonales]

I was not stating that 50/50 is the best weight distribution for drifting. I was simply saying that we have the ability to manipulate the weight distribution of the car through the ballast adjustment.

Also, I'm no expert, but I believe PD got the weight distribution of several car quite wrong, when compared to their real life counterparts. I have always been under the impression that the reason cars like the AE86, or the Silvias, were such great little sports cars (not just drift cars) with good handling characteristics is because they had fairly even weight distribution. This is not the only reason they have great handling (especially when compared to something like a Fox-body Mustang from the same era), but it certainly contributes to it.

I have a feelin that not only do the standard cars has sub-par graphics, they have sub-par physics models, compared to the premiums. I could be wrong though.

You're completely right on that part. The premium M3 feels horrible ingame compared to real life as well tbh.

 

[D-Max]

You're completely right on that part. The premium M3 feels horrible ingame compared to real life as well tbh.

I personally think no car in game feels like its real counterpart!

I'm enjoying these threads at the moment, allow me to try apply all the stuff you guys suggest to the dfgt, good fun! Still failing though :/

 

[massradia1]

I personally think no car in game feels like its real counterpart!

I'm enjoying these threads at the moment, allow me to try apply all the stuff you guys suggest to the dfgt, good fun! Still failing though :/

We can practice together!

 

[DriftK7]

I need help though, now that i know I dont need upgrades for my AE86 I feel better but the thing is I cant drift without e-brake, I need the e-brake everytime I want to drift, so how do i drift without using it, I am learning to Feint drift though.

 

[LERK84]

 

[Prokroysths]

You can drift a stock AE86 without e-brake but you need two things 1) weight transfer and 2) keeping the revs high.

Mess around a bit to get a feel of the car, while keeping low gears. When you start to understand a bit of its character try to drift a corner repeatedly. Adjust the practice to your liking but im proposing a general concept.

My opinion:This car embodies the idea that drift is fun and it is for everyone! And thats why its legendary.

 

[LERK84]

AE86 stock LSD is 0,0,0,
0 initial is more instant lock than custom LSD which only goes to 5 but with accel & braking being 0 too means its not very sensitive instead its very forgiving (you can just floor it & hold a drift quite easy in my opinion). also it is light & only has narrow tyres so drift just happens on CH tyres.
I always run custom LSD on 5 initial, 60accel, 50-60 braking depending on cars feel as I try to slow down during a drift.
Also try a Scandanavian flick,, When approaching a corner (not too fast) brake gently to get rear end light while turning away from corner you want to drift then release brake as you turn into the corner hit the throttle & get the countersteer on as the rear steps out.
or set your brake balance to say 1-2 front & 8-10 rear & dont use abs.

 

[twitcher]

I need help though, now that i know I dont need upgrades for my AE86 I feel better but the thing is I cant drift without e-brake, I need the e-brake everytime I want to drift, so how do i drift without using it, I am learning to Feint drift though.

Just to clarify things for myself:

1. Are you using comfort hard tires?
2. Have you made sure all driver aids are turned off?

If you respond yes to those questions, then I would say the only other thing you need to do is practice practice practice! Read everything you can on these forums, watch any videos on YouTube you can find, and just practice practice practice!

 

[oppositelock]

I disagree. For me, a car that drifts should be tending to be heavier in the front. Better transitioning and control, for my personal preference. Plus the fact that when you go closer to 50/50 your handling will decrease, and only the speed of your drifting will increase.

I can see how someone might prefer the feel of a nose heavy car, but the idea of handling actually suffering because of good weight distribution is pretty far off base.

The AE86 is not like this, and it oversteers easily because of its nose-heavy nature. The 60/40 weight distribution makes it easier to drift than a 50/50 weight distribution.

Admittedly not much of a GT drifter, but to me these cars plow like a front driver on corner entry then snap oversteer when you get on the throttle. The better balanced cars just flow better and transition smoother in my hands. To each his own.

 

[GhostZ]

I need help though, now that i know I dont need upgrades for my AE86 I feel better but the thing is I cant drift without e-brake, I need the e-brake everytime I want to drift, so how do i drift without using it, I am learning to Feint drift though.

For a Braking drift, which I recommend either now or as a step up from the Feint drift:

Go on a downhill course. Yes, it sounds cliche, but it helps. Don't use ABS either, if you can. The goal is dramatic weight transfer off of the rear tires and onto the front, easier to do if gravity is pulling you down and at a higher speed.

To achieve this, the goal is to brake as hard as possible (without skidding the tires) so that all the weight goes to the front of the car. As you do that, "roll" the car into the corner, while gently letting off the brakes, if you turn just hard enough into the corner, the rear tires will start to slide. Apply the accelerator until the end of the corner. You don't even need to worry about counter-steer really at this point, just trying not to spin out.

In order:
1. Acellerate as fast as possible
2. Brake suddenly (but without skidding the tires, use ABS if you can't do this, but try to do it without) while starting to turn the car into the corner.
3. Ease off the brake (Trail Braking) and gently apply the accellerator while turning sharply.
4. Let go of the brakes now that you're fully in the corner, maintain a slammed pedal (in the sprinter, other cars require more careful accellerator work but that's one reason the sprinter is so easy to learn on)
5. Let go of the accellerator after the turn, and let the car sort itself out. Do not overcorrect it when it slides.

This is called a braking drift, and the AE86 is great at it. I recommend starting there, to get past the E-brake.

If done right, you can slide the car even on SH tires. (though the tires will grip back as soon as they warm up) Granted, it won't smoke much or heat the tires up, but it will slide. On CH tires, you will get some smoke of course.

A few tips:
1. The shorter the corner, the better. Short corners will require your fingers to work faster, but are easier to drift since you have less chance of a mistake messing you up for the duration of a longer corner.
2. The more you read about vehicle physics, the better. It will help a lot.
3. Watch Initial D. Watch the Drift Bible. Even watch Pluspy. Keiichi Tsuchiya is a beast of an 86 driver, everything he touches is going to have some influence of it.




Oh, and to weigh in on weight distribution:

All cars are 4 wheels. Weight distribution only affects how the load on the tire level is transfered. That is why I feel at home and comfortable drifting my 60/40 Z, my 54/46 Monster, my 50/50 Dodge Challenger, and even my 40/60 Ruf RGT.

Guess which one is the fastest, with the same skill? None. Even the Z is barely slower around a corner at the same angle than the RGT, and that's a dramatic difference in car (400kg and a flipped weight transfer!) they do not get more different. One even has a tight chassis while the other is old and loose. It all comes down to the way the weight is moved on the wheels at the moment of drift not when its sitting still. Not saying there isn't a difference, but that suspension adjustments can make it almost negligible. This was one of the surprising things I learned when I started tuning cars mathematically.

 

[LERK84]

Another long over written post from Ghostz with half of it explaining what I did in a few lines only a few posts back, & your posts always sound condescending to me like you have a pre-supposition that you are smarter than everyone else who posts anything & that somehow your words have more truth, in my opinion.

 

[GhostZ]

Another long over written post from Ghostz with half of it explaining what I did in a few lines only a few posts back, & your posts always sound condescending to me like you have a pre-supposition that you are smarter than everyone else who posts anything & that somehow your words have more truth, in my opinion.

Let me bold all of the parts our posts shared.

AE86 stock LSD is 0,0,0,
0 initial is more instant lock than custom LSD which only goes to 5 but with accel & braking being 0 too means its not very sensitive instead its very forgiving (you can just floor it & hold a drift quite easy in my opinion). also it is light & only has narrow tyres so drift just happens on CH tyres.
I always run custom LSD on 5 initial, 60accel, 50-60 braking depending on cars feel as I try to slow down during a drift.
Also try a Scandanavian flick,, When approaching a corner (not too fast) brake gently to get rear end light while turning away from corner you want to drift then release brake as you turn into the corner hit the throttle & get the countersteer on as the rear steps out.
or set your brake balance to say 1-2 front & 8-10 rear & dont use abs.

For a Braking drift, which I recommend either now or as a step up from the Feint drift:

Go on a downhill course. Yes, it sounds cliche, but it helps. Don't use ABS either, if you can. The goal is dramatic weight transfer off of the rear tires and onto the front, easier to do if gravity is pulling you down and at a higher speed.

To achieve this, the goal is to brake as hard as possible (without skidding the tires) so that all the weight goes to the front of the car. As you do that, "roll" the car into the corner, while gently letting off the brakes, if you turn just hard enough into the corner, the rear tires will start to slide. Apply the accelerator until the end of the corner. You don't even need to worry about counter-steer really at this point, just trying not to spin out.

In order:
1. Acellerate as fast as possible
2. Brake suddenly (but without skidding the tires, use ABS if you can't do this, but try to do it without) while starting to turn the car into the corner.
3. Ease off the brake (Trail Braking) and gently apply the accellerator while turning sharply.
4. Let go of the brakes now that you're fully in the corner, maintain a slammed pedal (in the sprinter, other cars require more careful accellerator work but that's one reason the sprinter is so easy to learn on)
5. Let go of the accellerator after the turn, and let the car sort itself out. Do not overcorrect it when it slides.

This is called a braking drift, and the AE86 is great at it. I recommend starting there, to get past the E-brake.

If done right, you can slide the car even on SH tires. (though the tires will grip back as soon as they warm up) Granted, it won't smoke much or heat the tires up, but it will slide. On CH tires, you will get some smoke of course.

A few tips:
1. The shorter the corner, the better. Short corners will require your fingers to work faster, but are easier to drift since you have less chance of a mistake messing you up for the duration of a longer corner.
2. The more you read about vehicle physics, the better. It will help a lot.
3. Watch Initial D. Watch the Drift Bible. Even watch Pluspy. Keiichi Tsuchiya is a beast of an 86 driver, everything he touches is going to have some influence of it.




Oh, and to weigh in on weight distribution:

All cars are 4 wheels. Weight distribution only affects how the load on the tire level is transfered. That is why I feel at home and comfortable drifting my 60/40 Z, my 54/46 Monster, my 50/50 Dodge Challenger, and even my 40/60 Ruf RGT.

Guess which one is the fastest, with the same skill? None. Even the Z is barely slower around a corner at the same angle than the RGT, and that's a dramatic difference in car (400kg and a flipped weight transfer!) they do not get more different. One even has a tight chassis while the other is old and loose. It all comes down to the way the weight is moved on the wheels at the moment of drift not when its sitting still. Not saying there isn't a difference, but that suspension adjustments can make it almost negligible. This was one of the surprising things I learned when I started tuning cars mathematically.

Hm. It seems as if, as you say, our two posts are so similar... yet in only 16 words of your post do they even talk about the same thing as I posted. So I only repeated 16/156 (or 10.26%) and of what I, shamefully admitted, did repeat of your original post, it was only 4.40% of my post. That, and your only other post was simply an emoticon? Could you at least have sneakily edited one of your posts before making the claim that ours were similar in any way?

Or is 4.4% similarity too much for a single thread to handle? Or are you saying that Scandinavian flick, braking drift, LSD settings, and weight distribution differences between cars are all the same thing?

Lerk, do you know how to read?




I will be condenscending to you when you post something that is both completely uncalled for, and completely incorrect. Your previous post was both of those.

EDIT: Hey, I'll even give you the benefit of the doubt and add some more similarities that are not "exact" but close enough. I'll bump up your percentages too for that, to the whoppingly large numbers they are now. Sorry for repeating so much of your post.

 

[1J JZX100]

Wrong on the 50/50. if you have 50/50 weight your weight distribution is perfect for that car meaning you have more control, you can trow the car into a turn and easily keep it from understeering or oversteering as long as you drift with a commonsense lol you can actually pull off the perfect drift with a little to zero countersteer

Well maybe 52/48 would be better cause when you hit the gas the weight obviously transfers to the rear and the maybe actually making a 50/50 weight

Also i find if you stomp one good time on the brake instead of trail braking its like a instant shift of weight to the front therefore you will get sideways faster and you spend less time on the brakes but only at the right moment this does not count in real life but also spending to much time on your brakes will compress your tires, what does more compression mean? more change your going to lose traction

 

[GhostZ]

Wrong on the 50/50. if you have 50/50 weight your weight distribution is perfect for that car meaning you have more control, you can trow the car into a turn and easily keep it from understeering or oversteering as long as you drift with a commonsense lol you can actually pull off the perfect drift with a little to zero countersteer

Yes and no.

50/50 means that the weight difference from wheel to wheel is minimized for the same of a car that is 40/60 or 60/40. If the wheels all have similar weight on them, it is likely that they will have even grip thus making the car "better" handling, in that its a little more predictable. So for many good reasons, 50/50 is the best weight distribution.

However, any other weight distribution can be driven and tuned to achieve almost the same thing. The most important aspect for a drift car I find is the roll center, or where the car rotates around - the center of mass, and how the mass is distributed around it. This affects the second polar moment of inertia. On a 50/50 weight distribution car, this tends to be in the middle, but not always. You can have a car with lots of compact weight in the front, but is offset by a lot of widely-spread weight over the rear axle. Roll center will be near the front, while the weight on both wheels is relatively even.

My point is that its more important to tune a car for an "ideal" weight distribution under cornering, for how it sits normally. This means that static weight distribution doesn't mean near as much as second polar moment.

A good example is my 60/40 Z, and my 40/60 RUF RGT. The RGT rotates much tighter because its roll center is near the middle, even though it has lots of rear weight. The Z rotates near the front. As a result, the Z can get "seemingly" higher angles, since its rotating near the front axles, while the RGT rotates around the middle. But the RGT can maintain forward motion and faster rotation because it has a stiffer chassis and heavy rear weight.

I would say that 50/50 can be good, but it is not perfect, and other weight distributions work fine if tuned properly. 50/50 is easy to tune which might make an impact though.

As for braking, yes, you're right. I however trail brake into a corner after a very late use of the pedal to maintain the weight transfer. It slows how quickly the car evens it out if after it reaches its max weight transfer, without affecting dampening settings. However, that is a little complex for the OP to probably do, I didn't think about that.

 

[1J JZX100]

I see. i edited my post no take a look

 

[Robbyelder]

I don`t know if this has been answered yet but I`m going to put my two cents in. Yes the ae86 great starter car but as far as not using the hand brake. You should reconsider when starting out it is a good tool to start out your drift. But as I have perfected my skill I have got away from it using weight transfer and throttle control but that will come later. I`m not saying I don`t still use it cause I do but only after I have used my other tools. you could also try dirt dropping it is an older form to start a drift. But in comps this tool will not favor your points. But for just the average drifter or casual drifter it works great. You could also try light contact to start a drift it to is frowned upon too but another tool if you are wanting to get away from the handbrake. But back on the handbrake it is a good tool at closing in on someones door mid drift and thus making it a useful tool. Now get out there and drift. KDF Good Luck From Prodigy Drift

 

[Lock2Lock]

Let me bold all of the parts our posts shared.

Hm. It seems as if, as you say, our two posts are so similar... yet in only 16 words of your post do they even talk about the same thing as I posted. So I only repeated 16/156 (or 10.26%) and of what I, shamefully admitted, did repeat of your original post, it was only 4.40% of my post. That, and your only other post was simply an emoticon? Could you at least have sneakily edited one of your posts before making the claim that ours were similar in any way?

Or is 4.4% similarity too much for a single thread to handle? Or are you saying that Scandinavian flick, braking drift, LSD settings, and weight distribution differences between cars are all the same thing?

Lerk, do you know how to read?

I will be condenscending to you when you post something that is both completely uncalled for, and completely incorrect. Your previous post was both of those.

EDIT: Hey, I'll even give you the benefit of the doubt and add some more similarities that are not "exact" but close enough. I'll bump up your percentages too for that, to the whoppingly large numbers they are now. Sorry for repeating so much of your post.

So confused? Do you mean he is stealing your ideas or copying your posts?

I highly doubt that though. Anyway.


@OP
I haven't tried this car personally.
But i am pretty sure Lerk84 knows what he is talking about