Is the Peugeot 905 hopelessly unstable?

[Zardoz]

The Peugeot 905 Le Mans prototype car (go to France and you'll find it in Classics) may be my biggest disappointment in GT4.

You'd think that PD would make a two-time Le Mans winner a really good-handling, super-competitive machine. They didn't.

Instead, this beautiful spaceship of a car is impossibly unstable on all but perfectly smooth surfaces. I've tried shock, spring, camber, and toe settings, all to no avail. No matter what I do, the car gets uncontrollably squirrelly on places like the back side of Le Mans (Sarth), and I end up doing 190-MPH donuts.

I can live with the severe turbo lag, but the instability is just too much. Anybody tried it? Any suggestions on taming it?

 

[daan]

You'd think that PD would make a two-time Le Mans winner a really good-handling, super-competitive machine. They didn't.

Just because it's won Le Mans twice doesn't make it a good handling car. It just happened to be the fastest car of it's day against not a lot of opposition. No factory Mercs, Porsches or Jaguars.

I can live with the severe turbo lag,

On a 3.5l normally aspirated V10?

 

[Pontiac Le Mans]

In my memory, the real Peugeot 905 had some handling problems too. Don't expect a LM Prototype to be easy, especially not at the Hunaudières. At 350+ km/h all cars are delicate to drive there. That's why they had to put in the chicanes: there had been too much fatalities, caused by the instability of the cars. By the way: the Nissan of the Hunaudières licence-test is also very tricky. Of course I never didn't drive a real LM-prototype, but I suppose that in reality they are not easy to manage neither.

One of the new elements in GT4 is the "shaking" of the steering wheel at high speed doesn't make it easier to manage the car. My first experience: don't try to stop it shaking: this slows down the car. You see the shaking on the replay, and I believe that too corresponds to reality. High speed racing isn't very comfortable

 

[SimRaceDriver]

One of the new elements in GT4 is the "shaking" of the steering wheel at high speed....

That is one thing that I love when driving LMP's on that track!
Of course, I have my DFP set to 100% FFB, so that might explain why it 'shakes' so damn hard! LOL!

 

[Zardoz]

On a 3.5l normally aspirated V10?

I didn't even look at the specs. You're right: The real 905 was not turbocharged. Yet the game car has horrendous lag. Come to a sudden stop, then gas it, and wait, wait, wait for the turbo to spool up. The lag on every shift is terrible.

It happens when B-Speccing, too. On "Push" the B-Spec pilot always goes too deep at the end of the straight on Tokyo R246 and slams into the wall. It takes about three seconds for him to get going again. The car just crawls slowly along until it kicks in.

Anybody else who has the car care to voice their opinion? Does that seem like turbo lag to you?

 

[Zardoz]

At 350+ km/h all cars are delicate to drive there...High speed racing isn't very comfortable.

The Playstation Pescarolos are rock-solid. They're perfectly comfortable at 245 MPH on a bumpy road in completely stock form. Of course, the "company cars" would be perfect, wouldn't they?

Give us a frickin' break, PD...

 

[RoadBeef]

Anybody else who has the car care to voice their opinion? Does that seem like turbo lag to you?

This is commonly known as being "off the cam." Formula 1 engines, as in the 905, are tuned to develop all ( read: ALL ) of their power at very high rpm's. Don't expect it to be a torque monster, it's not like a 7 litre V8 or 8.3 litre V10. Anything below 8-9 thousand rpm and they just dont... make... torque.

I would suggest softening your spring settings and raising ride height in order to acheive a more controllable ride on your way down Mulsanne. Lessening front downforce is also something I would recommend. Do not set toe or camber to extreme values ( in fact, toe should be 0 - 0 if you want the best stability ).

 

[Pontiac Le Mans]

The Playstation Pescarolos are rock-solid. They're perfectly comfortable at 245 MPH on a bumpy road in completely stock form. Of course, the "company cars" would be perfect, wouldn't they?

Give us a frickin' break, PD...

I didn't yet buy them, but there might be an explication. On the licenses, I had the feeling that recent LM prototypes (Audi, Bentley) drive better and shake less than the ones of the period 1988-1992.

 

[///M-Power]

The controller you use also makes a difference. Even the best LMPs, not just the Peugeot, will shake violently at high speeds with a wheel if not set up correctly, which can be entertaining to watch on the replay but not much fun to drive. Using the DS2, on the other hand, you can happily cruise along at over 250 mph/400 kph without much of a care, even if you have vibration turned on.

 

[Leet_Newb]

Speaking of the shaking wheel. The IA lisence test where you first take the La Mans straight at over 230 MPH was incredible. That was one of the coolest experiences with GT4.

 

[chrissims]

I didn't yet buy them, but there might be an explication. On the licenses, I had the feeling that recent LM prototypes (Audi, Bentley) drive better and shake less than the ones of the period 1988-1992.

yer i noticed that on some other cars but thing is we all seem to forget that the gt series is unfortunatly a playstation exlusive so physics/detail in handling will always be limited due to memory size, plus the amount of cars PD have introduced into the game is amazing and the graphics for ps2 and NO game comes close to it so i think physics/engine detail/settings will be off in most cars due to the power already being used for the game. But the amount of research that must of gone into it is enormous and even tho some cars are not like their real life counter-parts i still put my hat down to PD.

 

[McLaren]

Going over 200Mph in almost any car will turn into a shakey experience using the DFP.

But if there are any of you who can't handle the 200+Mph, then race LeMans with the Takata NSX on a pracitce run.

The Takata will 193-195Mph top speed on that track. The wheel is somewhat shakey, but it will help build practice with the LMP cars.

 

[///M-Power]

I have not given it much practice with the DF yet, using the DS2 most of the time, but I noticed that holding the wheel right will overcome the shaking and still get you up to speed. But what is the best approach for minimizing the shakes with the settings? Is it more a matter of the spring rates, dampers, or the toe? I seem to get the best results by changing the rear toe and softening up the dampers a bit, though there is still lots of fiddling and testing to be done.

 

[prisonermonkeys]

I quite like the 905, but I seriosuly need help with settings. I entered the GTWC with it and won the first two races by equipping R1s front and rear then skipping pit stops. But for Round 3 at Hong Kong, I could only qualify 5th, and in the race I was losing as much as seven seconds a sector, despite the fact that I know and love Hong Kong and know al the racing lines. The only thing I can put it down to is the pause to let the revs drop as I upshift. Is it possible to eliminate this lag or at least decrease it, and if so, could someone please tell me how?

EDIT: I let B-Spec Bella tackle the 150 Miles at Motegi Super-Speedway today in the 905 and she won (though narrowly) against the Sauber and Minolta.

 

[Zardoz]

...The only thing I can put it down to is the pause to let the revs drop as I upshift. Is it possible to eliminate this lag or at least decrease it, and if so, could someone please tell me how?

No, there is no cure for the faulty transmission.

Where are you located? Do you have the PAL version of the game or the NTSC version? I'm asking because after many discussions with many people on many forums, I've come to the conclusion that the PAL version of the 905 is much better than the one we get with the NTSC version.

Since you found this old thread, you've probably seen these, as well:

https://www.gtplanet.net/forum/showthread.php?t=61952&highlight=905

https://www.gtplanet.net/forum/showthread.php?t=60116&highlight=905

https://www.gtplanet.net/forum/showthread.php?t=60262&highlight=905

I've given up on the 905 many times, but I always dig it out later and try again. Here's the best setup I've come up with yet. It isn't bad, but no matter what you do, you're hindered by that godawful transmission and the poor throttle response.

SR: 11.5/13.5
RH: 70/70
SB: 5/6
SR: 6/7
Cam: 2.4/1.2
Toe: -1/0
St.: 3/6
BB: 6/5
DF: 63/88
LSD: 10/27/13
ASM: 0/7
TCS: 3
(I use an Autoset of 1 and adjust with the Final, such as 2.98 for Sarthe I, but use the Autoset to adjust if you prefer.)

The basic instability of the car makes it a candidate for some Oversteer ASM being applied to make it usable on some tracks, like Sarthe. On fast tracks it isn't bad, and on fast, smooth tracks like R246 and the Super Speedway, its actually pretty good. Its absolutely hopeless on tight, twisty ones. Forget Hong Kong. That race is unwinnable with this car. You just can't overcome the transmission and throttle response handicap.

For me, PD's deliberate sabotaging of the 905 is the most infuriating, frustrating thing about GT4. In RL it was the fastest car to ever turn a wheel at Le Mans, but PD just couldn't stand to make a French car better than the Japanese prototypes in their digital world.

 

[Scaff]

in fact, toe should be 0 - 0 if you want the best stability

Actually if you want the best stability you should have a small amount of toe-in on the front for optimum straight line stability. The reason being that the front wheels will naturally toe-out slightly at high speed, doesn't however do much for your cornering ability.

 

[King_Impreza_21]

Im glad i read this i was about to spend 3.5 mil on this hunk of lard

 

[Zardoz]

...spend 3.5 mil on...

...a Mazda 787B instead.

 

[ViXeN]

In my memory, the real Peugeot 905 had some handling problems too. Don't expect a LM Prototype to be easy, especially not at the Hunaudières. At 350+ km/h all cars are delicate to drive there. That's why they had to put in the chicanes: there had been too much fatalities, caused by the instability of the cars. By the way: the Nissan of the Hunaudières licence-test is also very tricky. Of course I never didn't drive a real LM-prototype, but I suppose that in reality they are not easy to manage neither.

One of the new elements in GT4 is the "shaking" of the steering wheel at high speed doesn't make it easier to manage the car. My first experience: don't try to stop it shaking: this slows down the car. You see the shaking on the replay, and I believe that too corresponds to reality. High speed racing isn't very comfortable

I have an IRL answer to this, I race a Mazda RX2 IRL, track racing like GT4... Now this gives me a lot of connections, one of them used to be a man named Sarel Van Der Merve... He race a Mazda MX6 in modified class... It boasted a 2600cc 4 rotor rotary engine and put out close to 1000hp... I managed a drive in this car once, and I got it to a tops speed of 350km/h on a long straight before needing max breaks to come down to third... It was smoother than a babies bottom until I tried to power it out of the corner, even the slightest change in gas got the car out of shape!!!

Basically, this was a fully modified, fully customized racing car and it was a beast to handle on one of the smoothest tracks in my country!!!

 

[Ezz777]

I personally love the 905.

I do have the PAL version - so maybe our transmission isn't as bad as the NTSC one- but i guess maybe you have different expectations. We have to remember that this car is running F1 like revs - and so has to drop a couple thousand revs between gears. I am guessing it would have much bigger fly wheel for engine longevity, hence the slower rev drop as compared to an F1 engine.

There isn't any lag problem (unless you installed a turbo - and even then there is still a good wide spread of torque so you shouldn't be too slow as a result) but i guess in the low gears where the rev drop is greatest it can get annoying waiting for the revs to sort themselves out. my tip would be to drive it only with a manual transmission, and to deal with low revs by just staying a gear higher than you normally would thru corners, as the engine has a very wide torque curve, so you get out pretty quick. The fact that is is a couple hundred kgs lighter than most of its competitors makes it a fun drive.

The handling can get a little itchy - but i find just raising it and softening makes it a lot more driveable.

But yeah, finding yourself a nice used black group C would probably be a safer use of your hard earned credits - but when you have plenty of those you may want to give this little bugger a run - it is way fun!

 

[herrwazza]

one way to reduce lag ob upshift is to put the gear ratios closer together.although this will decrease top speed, it may pay off since it will accelerate quicker.also,reducing downforce slihjtly increases top speed,but reduce it too much and top speed will b lost and so will cornering ability

 

[Ezz777]

one way to reduce lag ob upshift is to put the gear ratios closer together.although this will decrease top speed, it may pay off since it will accelerate quicker.also,reducing downforce slihjtly increases top speed,but reduce it too much and top speed will b lost and so will cornering ability

All of that is good generic advice - but i find that especially for the LMP and other high powered cars (the torque monsters), it is better and quicker to have nice gaps between gears - especially in the low gears, as this allows the engines to actually do more efficient work. often the time taken to change gears makes a car slower than the advantage you get by having those slightly tighter gear ratios.

Taller low gears tend to give better grip as well allowing you to get out of corners quiicker. Plus better grip out of corners means less wheel spin and therefore better tire life.