Is there discrimination in American racing coverage?

[JohnBM01]

Hello again, GT Planet.

If this topic is meaningless and worthless, then my apologies. Quickly close this thread. Anyhow, is there discrimination in racing coverage? Allow me to explain.

As America knows, NASCAR basically rules the racing segment here in American sports. With 50+ years of existance, it's no wonder why NASCAR is the most successful series in America. With almost everything being the offical product of NASCAR, its overexposure is enough to tell America that NASCAR rules all. But how far have they come? NASCAR has its own Speed News usually re-aired Monday nights last year. When NASCAR had wet races, it was mostly NASCAR coverage (except for one time, because "Racing Mercedes" was on during a rain delay). Do I have a problem with this oval-racing series? I didn't say I hate NASCAR. But the different oval racing series that comes on Speed has others thinking: "Can't they show anything other than these boring oval races? I mean, all they do is go in circles."

So let's look at the other side of racing. MotoGP, GT/Sportscar, Rally, and all that. Being mostly a GT/Sportscar fan, I was disappointed when Le Mans was off and oval racing at Michigan took place. Then Petit Le Mans was interrupted with NASCAR trucks at Homestead. And I quote from another post I made:

(re-enacted) "...it is almost as if NASCAR Racing is a pregnant woman ready to give birth, and is more important than an internationally-recognized race events like Petit Le Mans and Le Mans." -myself, re-enacted from another post

To me, the American Le Mans Series is the best racing series in America. It's underrated to some racing fans. I mean, beautiful cars, world-class drivers, challenging races at exotic and not-so-exotic locales. Not to mention it is influenced by the 24 Hour classic in France. Le Mans is the greatest race in the world. It beats Daytona, Indianpolis, and Charlotte. Watching JGTC races is exciting to watch, but we have been relegated to an exclusive audience. When other series race in the rain, NASCAR and its clones sit the race out. So if a great race is on and they switch to NASCAR and it rains at the track, WE JUST HAVE TO SIT THINGS OUT. I mean, if I was watching an endurance race, I want to at least watch other forms of racing related to GT/Sportscar. I mean, why not give highlights of Sebring, Suzuka's motorcycle enduro, and Nurburgring. But instead, it's oval racing and stuff that is wholly unrelated to sportscar racing. I would like to see how the JGTC is doing, not to mention other FIA-sanctioned events (Sportscar, Rally, GT, etc.).

So my question to you is, do you think there is discrimination in American racing coverage? Is NASCAR so great that we shouldn't learn about any racing outside of America (or Canada)? Are people interested in non-stock car racing supposed to wait until such events take place? Maybe Speed needs to launch a sister channel to show more of the International racing? I'm talking about like... FOX Sports Net, then FOX Sports World. I'll start.

I enjoy watching many types of international racing, including low-level road racing in America. DTM and JGTC are incredible series. Sometimes, some people would like to see that while the paint-tradin'' is happening on American ovals. Le Mans coverage interrupted with NASCAR and racing not pertaining to the Le Mans or sportscar/GT perspective. I think the BTCC is even interesting than NASCAR. DTM, JGTC, the BTCC, and such. I'm not saying that NASCAR is THAT boring. It's just that NASCAR is not the only motorsport in the world. Anyone who's played any Gran Turismo knows what racing incredible cars is all about. You begin to appreciate what racing a real race car is all about. Some like the American series I mentioned just for the action, not so much cornering or driving dynamics. I think people are into the type of racing I am into because they respect what a car can REALLY do on a race track and understand the importance of a well-tuned car. But instead, you are racing a heavy car with a high-HP engine (reminiscent of luxury cars, huh?) with little or no handling. I know full well from playing simulation after simulation. American racing coverage needs to better balance road racing with ovals, or just make things road racing more than ovals. After all, the car was made in Europe and even the first races were on twisty roads.

Is there discrimination in American racing coverage? Tell your side now.

 

[The359]

FOX owns Speed Channel, FOX has the rights to NASCAR, hence they use Speed Channel to show NASCAR. Therefore, having lots of NASCAR coverage is to be expected.

Quite frankly, be glad you even get a channel dedicated to motorsports. I think it's quite stupid to complain that they don't show enough of your favorite motorsports when NASCAR is obviously their biggest followed show, when instead you could just have NOTHING...

 

[Sleek Stratos]

Originally posted by The359
FOX owns Speed Channel, FOX has the rights to NASCAR, hence they use Speed Channel to show NASCAR. Therefore, having lots of NASCAR coverage is to be expected.

Quite frankly, be glad you even get a channel dedicated to motorsports. I think it's quite stupid to complain that they don't show enough of your favorite motorsports when NASCAR is obviously their biggest followed show, when instead you could just have NOTHING...

That about sums it up.

And do you know why oval racing in Michigan came on while Le Mans 24 hours and why trucks came on while Petit Le Mans? Because it sells, and oval racing fans might stick around after the left turn-fest and catch a little of sports car racing, and who knows, they might even get interested.

These are the stats taken by SPEED on the day of Petit Le Mans (PL):


Start of PL 11-12:30 .12 rating
NASCAR Trucks race, 12:30-2:45 .64 rating
Middle of PL, 2:45-6:00 .22 rating
NASCAR Happy Hour, 6-7 .28 rating
End of PL 7-9:30 .06 rating

As you can see the most watched block of Petit Le Mans was the one sandwhiched between oval racing shows. It just sells, and you won't be seeing any change of doing things by Speed any time soon. If there's something you don't want to watch turn the channel, read a book, go outside, whatever!

There really is nothing to debate here, I'm sorry. NASCAR shows and others of the like are what allow the more finer motorsports to run on Speed.

 

[Brett]

[edit] To save people from reading my ramblings, I will just write this.

 

[The359]

The term "Necessary Evil" comes to mind when it comes to NASCAR on Speed Channel.

 

[VIPFREAK]

Show that the idiots that like nascrap don't know **** about driving. whoo hoo... dur dur... a circle... hey I have that car... whoo hoo... nah there's no discrimination, I don't see any "reality tv crap" either. Hell yeah there's a damn discrimination. Those idiots at Speed sold out to Nascrap as well...

 

[The359]

Since you can't read, I'll say it again. FOX Networks owns Speed Channel. FOX Networks also has the rights to NASCAR and it is one of their highest rated shows. So of course they are going to show NASCAR on their Motorsports Channel.

Duh.

 

[JohnBM01]

(I'm surprised this one isn't locked)

Yeah, I can remember when TNN had a lot of the NASCAR coverage. By 1999, I got into racing, and the first bit of racing I seen was NASCAR. I didn't know too much about racing, so NASCAR was king. Then I learned about CART and I liked CART more than NASCAR. Then when I seen ALMS, I was in love. But I needed Speedvision to watch the bigtime races.

So with the rights issue, I'm like... well, ESPN/ABC has a lot of NFL programs and games, but they don't show all NFL on those channels, right? The reason why I came up with this special topic is because I think some people like types of racing not related to ovals and not related to stock or midget cars. Some even think that the "racing on dirt" is nothing compared to rally for example. Now, something I've given credit is that NASCAR drivers know how to race outside of their element. Just that we've been used to the high HP, purpose-built racing sedans. Like, I got a lot of respect for Jeff Gordon. A hell of a road racer, but as he claimed when asked as to why he doesn't road race for a living:

(interpreted) "I like road racing, but I grew up on ovals."

I mean, I don't hate the drivers. It's just that, give other series a break. And I don't mean other series related to ovals or stock cars. An exception to the rule is if they talked about the SCCS, I forgot what the acronym stands for, but it is a stock car series that does road racing. Yeah, you heard me. These are late model stock cars that do road racing EVEN IN THE RAIN. If I come up with the website for the SCCS, I'll be sure to post my findings in a future reply here.

For this issue I came up with, I'm on the logic of "we know that one series rules a network and that's cool. Thing is, the racing itself is monotonous. So more varied coverage will convince me not to un-subscribe to the Speed Channel."

As we speak, I know the Rolex 24 is going on right now, and it fills the description of "real/competitive racing." However, I've kind of thought that race is nothing more but a reminder that NASCAR is coming. I don't know, maybe I've learned to appreciate that racing is a sport and not a hobby. Looking at road racing taught me the marriage between car and driver and road/track. I mean, even if it is Beetle Cup, I really grown to love the type of racing I'm into. Gran Turismo reminds me of it with beautiful cars with impressive handling.

The people who think of NASCAR as "nascrap" are the ones who are either have a type of racing that is a serious diversion from ovals and oval race cars. The other type of NASCAR hater is one who simply do not like stock car, almost as bad as how some people cannot stand FOX reality TV. Just that some people know what racing is about, only thing is that the only 24/7 channel on motorsports isn't answering the wishes of the racing fan. Sometimes, I still wish I had Speedvision earlier so I could watch more of the beautiful cars and fantastic circuits all at the same time. As much as I can cry about it, Speed Channel is the only channel we have regardless. As the phrase goes, "you have to take the good with the bad."

 

[LoudMusic]

Originally posted by JohnBM01
(I'm surprised this one isn't locked)

Do many of your threads get locked? You breath new intelligent and educated life into GTPlanet (:


American racing coverage biased.... YES. It's probably 90% NASCar, with a little monster truck in there. I rarely even seen coverage for Cart or IRL and those have races all over the States.

 

[RandomHero]

Does anyone here open their eyes to the world around them? From what I can sum up the people around here are very hypocritical/ignorant when it comes to auto racing, as compared to some of the other subjects on this site. Why exactly do you disslike NASCAR and think going in circles has no point nor needs any form of talent to do so.

Most of you either claim NASCAR is played too much in comparison to road racing. First of all since the France family has a part in SPEED and they own NASCAR, which a majority of the viewing public wishes to watch, means that is what is played the most. But it is nowhere near as much as you claim it to be. 90%

Road racing has had it hard here in America because it fails to put on a show, which is how this whole promotion/race deal works. You need to put on a show for the fans to actually watch. With the limited amount of passing and how most of the field becomes spread out over the course of an entire race, it becomes quite boring. Eventually all it is is a bunch of guys driving at the edge around a track by 'themselves'. CBS, ABC, NBC, ESPN all used to put this type of programming on when NASCAR was beginning to take off thinking this would too, but when the ratings never reached what NASCAR was attaining they slowly took that programming off the air, and for the most part now it is only viewable on SPEED. Another thing that has to do with this is many of the drivers in these series ALMS, CART, JGTC, F1, etc. is that they are all foreigners and that makes it hard to gain veiwers/fans when they (American public) don't know who half of these guys are.

NASCAR is the big ticket these days, anything having to do with it sells with the American public.

where's PunkRock? He should have been here by now.

 

[JohnBM01]

"I breathe new life to GTP?" I'm honored to be here.

So once again, I'm just sharing a point. I'm not saying that whatever I think should take place or shouldn't take place. I'm going on experience and looking into what the media has said.

And as far as road racing in America, yeah. Maybe I'm being a little harsh when I say this, but the more American a series is, the more it will be respected by America. That's a "duh" statement, of course. I think people like stuff like NASCAR because it is high speed battle, and the only technique you need is how to climb through a pack.

Maybe there are two types of racing fans. One is one who likes racing to see drivers go at top speed to win the race. The other likes racing because he/she knows that a car and its racer need to be challenged more than what the driver is used to any given weekend. I think I fit the second description. Like, when I play GT or Le Mans 24 Hours, I like racing a car in which I know that I can tune to corner like the edge of a knife. And as much as I like going on circles on anything BUT circles, I appreciate a few things as a race fan:

- the driver's skill
- the car's potential
- the challenge of the track
- the combination of car and driver

On another note, I think good road racing series in America and around the world are doing well. I think NASCAR racers raced the Daytona enduro not too long ago. That MIGHT be a way to educate NASCAR fans into road racing. But America needs more promotion. Oval racing is for kids, especially NASCAR. Hell, I got respect for the IRL, even though it is an oval racing series like NASCAR. The IRL has close finishes and high speed. I'm not contradicting myself. IRL cars are pure race cars despite their circle-track dominance. Pure race cars, pure race drivers, challenging courses. This lights my fire when I watch a bunch of cars go at it on my TV. I take my love of such a type of racing seriously. Much like a NASCAR fan loves their NASCAR gear to even a signed autograph of their "NASCAR Thunder 2004" game, we are racing fans too.

Despite this being what you may consider a "NASCAR Bash session," you can talk about other great series that isn't covered often. Like, do you think SCCA events (besides Trans-Am) need special attention, for example. Next?

 

[///M-Spec]

The way I see it, there are two parts to this issue.

Part one is an argument over the merits of NASCAR versus sports car racing and other alternative, 'non-oval' motorsports. Part two is the impact of NASCAR's popularity on these alternatives.

You can go around and around forever on part one: you either see NASCAR as a legitimate, quality racing series or you don't.

Personally, I fall into the later catagory, because I feel NASCAR's defining qualities make it unsuitable for me as a viewer. Primarily, the cars involved are 3,500lb dinosaurs that I can't identify with. There's nothing sexy about an all steel roll cage with a carb'd big block up front and piece of fiberglass shaped like a family car slapped over it depicting your favorite soft drink, hardware store or diet supplement. An Audi R8 is sexy. A Cup car, is not. Sorry.

Second, as much as I've tried, I can't get into the oval track format that is a Cup staple. The single quality of an oval format is that it's very clear to anyone watching who is in the lead. There is an immediacy in watching an oval race that road racing very rarely has. But because of this oval racing lacks the depth and variation that road racing has, especially at endurance events. There is a lot more going on in road racing that is not immediately apparent to a casual viewer. It's much harder to tell who is in the lead. And unless you really know what to look for, a brilliant pass just looks like one guy going around a corner faster than the other guy. NASCAR is simple and obvious. Anyone can get it. For the most part, what you see is what you get. Sports car racing is considerably more cerberal; you need to think about it before you can really enjoy it.

Finally, the numerous rules changes, internal politics, amount of "manufactuered" competition and circus like atmosphere of Cup racing leaves me cold. I don't really care who threw what at whom in the pits. I just want to see some good racing.

But there's no right or wrong to this argument. There's nothing WRONG with NASCAR. I just don't happen to enjoy it. And regardless of how I feel about it won't keep millions of people in America from enjoying it. Nor should it.

So onto part two. There's no question that NASCAR's popularity has taken a hit on the road racing fans. The simple fact that last year's Le Mans coverage was interupted for a Cup practice event tells the whole story. Arguably the greastest race in the world (Indy not withstanding) is interupted ---for a PRACTICE session from another series. Hello?

But regardless of how sports car fans may feel about it, television is a business. I may as well complain the radio plays the same popular songs over and over again. They're not out there for my benefit, they're out for theirs and they'll do what they can to make a buck. That's the way it is. But this doesn't mean I have to like it.

As for what the future holds, I suspect NASCAR will peak out like any major sport (baseball, basketball) and settle into a 'slow burn' for the next 20, 30 years. As long as it can draw newer, younger viewers I don't see it fading away unless there is a major shift in how Americans look at motorsports.

The future of sports car racing is much tougher to predict. There is an opportunity to bring the 'Import Generation' into the sports car fold, which can amount to millions of new fans. However, I only see this happening if there is major factory support from the manufactuers in a viable series.

Speed World Challenge is the perfect venue for this. The cars are (relatively) inexpensive. The costs are very reasonable. The sprint format is perfect for this class of car, and the rules are stable and well balanced enough for very close racing. Heck, I think SWC events are more interesting to watch than the ALMS events they support.

Of course, the only way to get manufactuers intersted is to give the series the viewship and support it needs to make a credible marketing case. After all, Audi, Mazda, BMW, Nissan are out there for the same reason the France family is: to make a buck.

In closing, I think sports car fans need to look more closely not at what is wrong with NASCAR, but what they can do to help road racing here in the US.

Whew.. this is the longest post I've written in a while here.


///M-Spec

 

[SR20DET]

i think American Television will do anything to get viewers. they have NASCAR drivers in Pepsi/Coke commercials and i don't buy pepsi/coke because they're in it, i buy it for the taste... and the fact that those NASCAR drivers are endorsed by those companies makes me not even wanna buy a product from them anymore

well i'm getting a little off topic but what i'm trying to say is that i TOTALLY agree with your responses on this topic. i'm glad to know that you people feel the same way i do about all of this.

 

[RandomHero]

Originally posted by RandomHero
Does anyone here open their eyes to the world around them? From what I can sum up the people around here are very hypocritical/ignorant when it comes to auto racing, as compared to some of the other subjects on this site. Why exactly do you disslike NASCAR and think going in circles has no point nor needs any form of talent to do so.

///M-Spec & JohnBM01 the above statement was not driected towards you but rather the PunkRock's of these forums who think that calling anything to do with NASCAR and its followers 'rednecks' because they must make themselves feel more educated or whatever their reason may happen to be. I just wish we had a few more people around here with such open-minded and thoughtfull views.

I enjoy watching such events as F1, Speed World Cup and WRC, but I have also grown up around Midget and Sprint Car racing and don't get me wrong I in no way am a 'big fan' of NASCAR nor was I defending them in my previous post.

 

[RandomHero]

Originally posted by ///M-Spec

Personally, I fall into the later catagory, because I feel NASCAR's defining qualities make it unsuitable for me as a viewer. Primarily, the cars involved are 3,500lb dinosaurs that I can't identify with. There's nothing sexy about an all steel roll cage with a carb'd big block up front and piece of fiberglass shaped like a family car slapped over it depicting your favorite soft drink, hardware store or diet supplement. An Audi R8 is sexy. A Cup car, is not. Sorry.

If anyone finds a cup car to be 'sexy' they should be shot. An F1 car is by far the sexiest racecar on earth.

Second, as much as I've tried, I can't get into the oval track format that is a Cup staple. The single quality of an oval format is that it's very clear to anyone watching who is in the lead. There is an immediacy in watching an oval race that road racing very rarely has. But because of this oval racing lacks the depth and variation that road racing has, especially at endurance events. There is a lot more going on in road racing that is not immediately apparent to a casual viewer. It's much harder to tell who is in the lead. And unless you really know what to look for, a brilliant pass just looks like one guy going around a corner faster than the other guy. NASCAR is simple and obvious. Anyone can get it. For the most part, what you see is what you get. Sports car racing is considerably more cerberal; you need to think about it before you can really enjoy it.

The average American is an idiot, what do you expect.

So onto part two. There's no question that NASCAR's popularity has taken a hit on the road racing fans. The simple fact that last year's Le Mans coverage was interupted for a Cup practice event tells the whole story. Arguably the greastest race in the world (Indy not withstanding) is interupted ---for a PRACTICE session from another series. Hello?

I too was equally pissed.

In closing, I think sports car fans need to look more closely not at what is wrong with NASCAR, but what they can do to help road racing here in the US.

👍

 

[millencolin]

from what ive seen and heard from all you americans, it seems like that NASCAR is the only thing shown. But isnt there like 4 versions of nascar, like the winston cup, busch, trucks and so on? seriously that is too much. America is a great motorsport country as it has many forms of it. CART, ALMS etc are awesome racing. definately the best racing america has to offer. i feel that someday these two series will rise in popularity, they have to as they are just awesome racing, espically CART (or should i say OWRS now) as it races on ovals, road and street circuits.

i feel that NASCAR's popularity will drop. i think its like a market boom and bust. the boom in nascar popularity will stop and it will drop someday. good things dont last forever

 

[JohnBM01]

I think Australian V8s are pretty cool. Australian V8s is like Trans-Am. Only thing is that these are... I want to say economy cars in Australia tuned with incredible power. I think Australian V8s the best job at glorifying reglular cars. Assumption is that the Aussie V8s maintain their stock look and are tuned for downforce and all-out power. Australia is different in car tuning. American car fans who bash Japanese cars saying that they have "all show, but no go" obviously haven't seen Aussie V8s. Those Aussie V8s are not called supercars for nothing. They look like touring cars, only more like GT3 or GT2 specifications.

American racing fans, if you want to learn about nternational racing, try Australian V8 Supercars (http://www.v8supercars.com.au). If you like NASCAR (and almost ALL of America does, since you can't escape from them), look at the BTCC. REAL stock cars, intense action, variety of cars, and nice racing venues. The one the American race fan will be used to is Silverstone, granted that you have seen F1 races. And the BTCC races on Silverstone, so check that out.

Now here is a question. Why is it that a NASCAR race will be shown in its entirety, but ALMS on NBC makes it a 2-hour cutdown? I can understand that some races can be long, but that's crap when a NASCAR race can sell over the F1 of American motorsports, the ALMS. I mean, what does NASCAR have to sell on TV? If it rains, we have to wait or watch alternative NASCAR coverage. Heck, even the Bandolero bandits raced in the rain during the Summer Shootout! I mean, the world of racing has too many alternatives to those who don't really prefer pure race cars, there are MANY, MANY alternatives. For example, I like watching the Houston Texans play in the NFL whether win/lose, sometimes, I may want to learn more about the sport. So I watched the Rose Bowl with USC/Michigan. I seen rugby football before. Some consider football as soccer, so I seen the World Cup. If football has alternatives, so can auto racing. Especially American auto racing.

So what is my solution to this problem? With all due respect to other racing series, they need more promotion first and foremost. I mean, when you go to Olive Garden, you should see the Olive Garden 550 Maranello. I could remember watching the BEAUTIFUL Olive Garden 333SP race in the 1999 ALMS series. I heard about its "Meals on Wheels" program. You can have that. ADT is on the Champion Audi R8. Why not have funny commercials of ADT with their alert systems? Denso Spark Plugs can show their Denso Sard Supra as a base to market Denso's products. Same goes for the Raybrig NSX and Raybrig's products. That same race car can even introduce Americans to the Japanese music label Avex. I used to watch and listen to their online commericals.

But hear me out. ROAD RACING NEEDS MORE EXPOSURE! Likewise, America needs to know more about these machines and the racing involved rather than be left in the dark and relegated to ho-hum American ovals. And if you ask me, road racing on infield ovals can be boring (Daytona included). And if there is considerable rain, the race is stopped (like Phoenix in 2001 for Grand-Am). So, while these "rovals" are road racing, you need to get away from ovals.

I don't know how long this thread is, but I am continuing an argument that I brought up.

 

[millencolin]

your right the v8s rule as the cars that race are the 2 best selling cars in australia, and both are australian built family cars.

motor racing beginnings was on road courses. but the only reason the NASCAR gets so much tv coverage is that (no offence) all the rednecks follow it. seriously, i had to do an assignment about rednecks and i discovered taht are complete nascar nuts. and there are a large nukber of stupid rednecks who watch it as well as buy all the merchandise

 

[The359]

You had to do a report on Rednecks and found that they all like NASCAR....I'd LOVE to see what your sources are for that information. And why would you even do a report on American Rednecks...you aren't even in this country!

(By the way, it helps to not have the grammar capabilities of a redneck...)

 

[JohnBM01]

The359 serves a strange point there...

While I'm watching some college football on my PS2 (until the real thing plays this August), I have respect for Trans-Am here in America. And although the cars don't have headlights (kind of a NASCAR thing, or an American racing deal as they can be helpful in road racing), the cars still stay true to the American concept of NASCAR-like bodies, but with heavy horses. I'm not saying that's a bad thing, not saying that's a good thing.

You may be familiar with the saying "Think of the children!" Well, let's do. I think a lot of racing around the world is enough to educate the young race fan. With NASCAR racing, it's weird I say this, but no one really talks about these NASCAR racers being family men and happily married. I don't know if racing "stock" Tauruses around Darlington is the conception of a family man.

Since I've been into racing in 1999, I had to slowly learn about Le Mans. The track and the race are the ultimate difference maker for a racer. If you played "Le Mans 24 Hours" (as most as a gamer will get,despite the fact it's based on Le Mans 2000), you'll know that the track is long, challenging, and to endure through it in a day-to-night-to-day sequence, you tell me. Even though the Coca-Cola 600 has its own charm (I'll admit, Charlotte is pretty cool. Even its infield road course has... a few turns inside, but the oval is a joy to race, take it from my oval-racing gaming), but Le Mans is the race you REALLY want to race. I think to be honest, the Le Mans course is pretty easy. Now, don't rant on me, but check this out. I think the real challenge of the Le Mans course is trying to the Bugatti parts of the course. But really, Le Mans is like Sebring (in ways). Le Mans is a high-speed course, as is Sebring. The corners on the track outside of Bugatti are mostly "roadbumps" from your high-speed speedfreaking.

The Le Mans race cars, in my view, are lovely as they balance power with candy-sweet aerodynamics (I normally use that to describe pretty ladies, but I'll go out of character here. Hope youl like it). These race cars are the beautiful, aerodynamic cars you can get for 1,000,000 Cr to 2,000,000 Cr in Gran Turismos 2 and higher. Plus in GT4, you can race the Pescarolo Courage LMP car. I'll enjoy every moment of racing a sweet LMP decalled up with Gran Turismo sponsorship.

Can't get that in oval racing. And if you ask me, if you have pure race cars, save them for exhinitions and speed tests. I think back in the 1970s, Talladega was used for high-speed challenges. I'm sure the Porsche 917 and the Alfa Romeo T33/2 Daytona have enjoyed their 'dega Tri-oval high speed tests. And to be honest, I think ovals need to be used for high speed contests. Don't make contests out of them, though. Even Star Mazda tried Pikes Peak for the oval instead of the infield road course. But when you make it a habit, it gets old. Road courses are of different variety. And it is easier to tell Limerock from Suzuka, for example.

Anyone else want to talk about American racing coverage? In the meanwhile, I'm going to dig into these Doritos Guacamole! chips. Tastes like Doritos Nacho, only with a more spicy taste. Okay, enough with cheap advertisment, post a danged reply already!

 

[LoudMusic]

Hopefully not for much longer. The JGTC is looking for locations worldwide, and California is on the list. The JGTC may be coming to Leguna Seca!

http://www.jgtc.net/race/news_en/2003n/031205_01.htm

 

[JohnBM01]

LoudMusic, I can assure you that Laguna Seca is possibly the top answer to the question "where in America is Carmen Sandiego..." oh wait, wrong topic. I meant to say: "Where in America will the JGTC race?"

If the JGTC officials and sponsors played Gran Turismos 2 or 3 and seen JGTC race cars race Laguna Seca, then they know what they are getting into when thinking about Laguna Seca for a non-points race.

Now see, the JGTC will get more exposure. Japan will be able to catch more action with the JGTC's world-bound audience. The JGTC is real racing, so Japan doesn't have the same situation that real racing fans here in America have. And if Speed is all over that race, then America will get a chance to see the JGTC in action. Who knows? Maybe they'll make it live like they made the Honda Superbike classic for the two-wheelers. May never know.

In the meanwhile, here is something I thought about. Now, I kind of couldn't care less about Daytona's endurance, but Sebring's endurance isn't stopped (all 12 Hours of it). But Le Mans and Petit Le Mans were not covered in their entirety. Now, Le Mans is a bit too long, even though I can remember Le Mans being run for 24 hours straight during the Speedvision days.

Let me try and recall some stats. People on TV who talk good about American oval racing act like they can't believe their eyes. And I'm talking about some of the reporters and some commercials. But let's see how they REALLY match up in America's favorite racing style:

PIT STOPS:
NASCAR: 15-20 sec, depending on which tires
F1: 4 tires and fuel, 5-15 seconds
Touring car: 5-10 seconds

SPEEDS:
NASCAR: 210 mph
F1: 200+ mph
Le Mans Prototypes: 200-240 mph

DIVERSITY
NASCAR: All or Mostly American
F1: Worldwide audience
Endurance/Sportscar: worldwide audience
JGTC: Mostly Japanese, some non-Japanese

TRACK VARIETY AND CHALLENGE
NASCAR: Ovals and two road courses
CART: Mostly road/street courses, some ovals
F1: All road courses, one street
Endurance/Sportscar: all road courses, rare chance of street courses
JGTC: all road courses in Japan and Malaysia. Possible to run in South Korea, China, and even the United States.

So with these stats, what makes such an American sport be considered the best in the land when there are other racers and sanctioning bodies that beg to differ. Sure, other countries aren't into ugly-looking brutes with heavy horsepower, but can still deliver on track. I think more people in the type of sports I mentioned are honored as heroes/heroines. There are car makers who have achieved accolade after accolade. For example, how about Bentley winning Le Mans within the 10 years of the Le Mans 24? Ferrari's numerous victories in F1? Alfa Romeo's success in touring car? Porsche's dominance in almost everything except maybe F1 (can you imagine a Porsche-powered F1 car in this day and age?)? Hell, Mazda winning Le Mans in 1991, being the first Japanese make to win Le Mans.

I mean, we have such car history that some people aren't exposed and educated about it. NASCAR is still good racing, in fact I seen the Budweiser Shootout. But as an automotive enthusiast, I believe in a few things among others, like: "Cars are meant to be DRIVEN as hard as the driver him/her self."

I take it seriously and don't relegate real racing to video games. I want dreams to come true, so I'm thankful for Speed Channel for stepping up its road racing. Thank you with the best rhythm of my beating heart. I love racing like a dedicated couple. Now let's balance road racing coverage a bit more. At least keep the enthusiasts happy.

 

[JohnBM01]

To further the point of discrimination in racing coverage (American oval coverage vs. enthusiast racing), I give you this magazine article. This is an article I found from "Racing Milestones" magazine from March 2000, with the headline: "No. 1 at Last!" Okay, here is the article as promised:

"Racing Milestones" magazine, March 2000 edition
Article: "Surviving Speedweeks 2000," page 53

"Speedweeks has always started with sportscars from around the world. In the beginning, it was Big Bill France's way of putting the "international" in Daytona International Speedway, kinda like Belgian waffles putting the "I" in IHOP. The 24 Hours of Daytona, known as the Rolex 24, kicks off Speedweeks on Saturday and Sunday February 5 and 6.
"The field, numbering 80 cars, always inludes everything from open-cockpit Ferraris to Corvettes to the ever-present Porsches - all running the 3.56-mile course that includes the east and west banking as well as the infield road course. Impress your friends by referring to that first infield u-turn as the 'Pedro Rodriguez Horseshoe." It's the only time you'll see headlights, windshield wiers, right hand-turns, hourly driver changes, and the occasional Spaniard turning a wrench in the garage area.
"A few days after the wine-and-cheese crowd departs, the full-throated roar of stock cars rings in the meat and potatoes of Speedweeks. February 9 to 11 will be practice days for the Goody's Dash Series, ARCA and Winston Cup cars. Then the real racing takes place."

I can tell you from experience that I seen almost all of ESPN's coverage of the Rolex 24 Hours of Daytona. And if I'm not mistaken, that was the inaugural year of the GARRA, or should I say, the Grand American Road Racing Association. I seen BEAUTIFUL cars there. The Oreca Vipers (who won outright), the SWEET Cadillac Northstar LMP, the rather ugly Riley and Scott Mk III open-top racer, and of course the Porsches. I seen Daytona in a different way. The infield road course and the use of the NASCAR oval was new to me (in fact, I thought the 24 Hours of Daytona was run by NASCAR on the oval!). Of course, by that time, I didn't know much about racing. I got into racing in 1999 and slowly learned the sport. If you know my past stories, you may know that when the ALMS was formed in 1999, I fell in love with the race car action. GARRA only increased my interests in sportscar racing. And since then, I really fell in love with sportscar racing. Now I am into road racing, and if I want any ovals, I trust the IRL. Again, I said the IRL because finishes are close, and the race cars are pure. Now, I'll hand credit to racers who do the Indy/Charlotte double, but I konw pure racing quality like the back of my hand. And no offense, but when Speed did a segment on Robby Gordon doing the Indy/Charlotte double, my satellite receiver (Dish, but DirecTV has a better music channel package (the music channels without video, just music playing)) said that "Robby Gordon talks about doing 1,100 miles in a day." But, if my memory served me right, didn't it rain at Charlotte at about halfway? That's not 1,100 miles. I'm sorry.

If you have some articles you like to share to stay within this topic, you are encouraged to share and explain.

 

[Sleek Stratos]

What do you mean NASCAR has speeds of 210 mph? Hardly even in tracks like Talladega or Daytona do they get that fast, at least not anymore, in the 'pre-restrictor plates' era maybe.

 

[JohnBM01]

Maybe I'm basing things on NASCAR speeds on the 1990s. I heard they could do those speeds. That's the only logic I can provide.

 

[RandomHero]

At the Indianapolis Motor Speedway and Atlanta they are reaching 205+mph.

 

[The359]

Um, no, they certainly don't reach 200mp at Indianapolis. At most, 185mph.

 

[millencolin]

does anyone else in here find nascar boring? i sure as all hell do. maybe its because im used to watching toruing car racing on road circuits, but seriously nascar is boring. its not because its on ovals (i like ovals, but not all the time. The359 i think u know what i mean ), but there is no overtaking in nascar, as well as its really REALLY dangerous.

does anyone else find it boring, or is it just me being used to australian motorsports?

 

[Cap'n Jack]

I love NASCAR!

 

[JohnBM01]

Some people think road racing isn't racing (without the "G") because you can't overtake people like getting into the draft at Talladega or 4 wide at Daytona. And I'm like, so freakin' what? Just because F1 or Le Mans has 50 lead changes in one race doesn't mean that road racing is boring. I mean, I like two or more things in racing:

(1) the challenge of the series and the caliber of the racers
(2) the race cars themselves and their capabilities

As I said, I'm not a real NASCAR fan, but I got respect for the IRL. Why IRL over NASCAR when both race mostly ovals? IRL cars are pure race cars. They run much faster speeds, corner much better, and actually have aerodynamics in play at EVERY track. IRL has competition even though it is not F1 or sportscar racing. You want action? Check out the BTCC. If you want real action and drama, you need to look at the JGTC. Racing has many alternatives. You just need to find them.

Maybe a complaint a person might have is that the BTCC aren't GT race cars. Well ,they may not be, but the action in the racing is steps above Speed Touring Car. Though Speed TC is mostly amateur, BTCC is like the real thing. The next level would be FIA Touring car, with the Alfa Romeos and stuff. Now for the JGTC, I don't want to hear a complaint about ugly cars, unattractive Race Queens (you have to be sick in the head to believe that), or not enough American cars. The JGTC has more drama than the Super Bowl halftime concerts. The JGTC has exciting racing. With more than 10 years under their belt, this has been a driving force for the GT series. I'll go on a limb and say that Gran Turismo may have not existed had it not been for the JGTC. The race cars in the GT games have great characteristics and impressive power. Even the all-American V8 lover has something to love when it comes to racing. I love the JGTC. The JGTC is to Japan as NASCAR is to America. While different styles of racing, there's something for everyone in the JGTC.

Love NASCAR, loathe NASCAR... there are many alternatives for people who love racing. It's just too bad some are relegated to ovals and down-home action. I mean, if you like racing, good. Learn about other racing series. Do what I did since 1999. I learned a lot about other racing and had fun doing it.